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Nielsen Ratings To Count Online TV Viewing

cashman73 writes "Several sources are reporting that Nielsen is finally going to start measuring online TV viewing. You would think that this is a good idea, since many people are now watching TV programs on the Internet. However, there's a catch: Nielsen's new service will only count viewings of a program with the same number of advertisements as the network TV model. So, this immediately eliminates Hulu, as well as any shows watched via the network's own websites. As a matter of fact, it would currently only include Comcast's XFinity TV service, and TV Everywhere (which, so far, appears to be the equivalent of Duke Nukem Forever for television). So either, (a) everyone will rush out to watch their online TV on Comcast XFinity, so that their viewing counts in the ratings (unlikely), or (b) Hulu and everyone else starts to put more advertisements on their shows (more likely, but would also probably mean the death of Hulu)."

20 of 178 comments (clear)

  1. Nielsen Ratings by Reason58 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I guess Conan should have had more commercials.

  2. Wake me up when... by Anita+Coney · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...they count bittorrent views.

    --
    If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
    1. Re:Wake me up when... by jebrew · · Score: 3, Interesting

      because if they saw the number of people viewing this way, they might (as in unicorns exist kinda might) start releasing their own high quality downloads with the ads in them...hell, I'd watch the ads just because I'm too lazy to skip past them.

    2. Re:Wake me up when... by DavidTC · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I will second this completely.

      I download TV illegally. But, first, let me explain what I won't do:
      a) I'm not paying for shitty cable and for a TiVo when I already have computer hooked to my TV. Hell, technically, I do have free basic cable, and it's so poor I don't even have it actually hooked to my TV.
      b) I don't really have enough bandwidth to stream. I get about 150kps download. That's really the lowest quality I can stand, too, so it works out to a minute of downloading per minute of video...which means that all streaming jumps to a lower quality, because that's too close to comfort. And forget about the higher quality stuff.
      c) I want to control the entire thing with my remote control, and the streaming sites seem intent on not functioning in any HTPC interface anyway. (And I'm not sure how hacking hulu to watch in Boxee is somehow more 'moral' than just downloading the show.)
      d) I am not paying for my TV shows in cash, hence I won't use iTunes. I will, like the rest of the world, pay in for TV in commercials. (When I pay in cash, I expect DVDs.) I won't promise to buy anything, but that never was part of the deal. And I'm really too lazy to bother with skipping them.

      I'm not trying to morally justify anything, or claim I have the right to TV, I'm simply stating my situation, and stating as a member of the American people, I will watch TV. So I can either download TV illegally, or I can...um...hmmm...have no TV.

      You give me a torrent I can download legally, I'm there.

      I'd especially be there if you'd encrypt the episodes so I could download them in advance, and give me the key when they aired. I just mention that because that's how they should attract current illegal downloaders. Right now, it's end of episode+10 minutes+download time to watch. Let people have a download list, let them download the previous night, and then give them the key at the moment of airing. Unlike DRM, that actually could work with reasonable encryption, and lets people watch very high quality stuff even over bad connections. (Hell, you could technically watch about 5 hours a week over dialup, which would be helpful for people with basic cable who want to watch one or two other shows.)

      But all this is, of course, crazy talk. If they provide digital downloads that people can actually download, why, people will download them, cut the commercials out, and redistribute them. (Which is a bit like worrying about someone breaking into your car by picking the trunk lock, when all actual thieves spend 30 seconds with a slim jim and get in from the doors.)

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
  3. What is the point? by capt.Hij · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Why do they insist on only measuring "full length" media. They will make themselves obsolete if they insist on measuring the way old media works. Related to that sentiment they forgot option "c," keep on ignoring the ratings and do what you like not what they want us to do.

    1. Re:What is the point? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Studios keep making bad business decisions based on Nielsen ratings. They cancel shows with low ratings even when the DVD sales alone are enough to make a profit on the show. Rather than make the next season straight-to-DVD, they don't make it at all.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    2. Re:What is the point? by DavidTC · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No shit.

      Ratings were important when it was 'Which of these shows will take up valuable time on the channel?' We even talked about 'prime time'. If one show was making a profit of $500,000 an episode, and you thought a different one could make $600,000, sure, cancel the first.

      But it's goddamn stupid when you stop living in the idiotic 'broadcast TV' world. You should make both shows. In fact, you should make anything that makes you money, or at least has a reasonable chance of doing so. Because it makes you money. I cannot stress the whole 'it makes you money' concept enough.

      The sad thing is, TV networks already know about this. It was 'syndication' long before DVDs came out, wherein TV studios make shows without having a network committed to buying them. Although that market was a lot smaller, and shows had to be very low-budget to make a profit on just that.

      Bu they already had the model. They should have logically been able to make the leap to DVDs.

      A lot of the problem is how TV studios are structured. Everyone wants 'their own' shows to be wildly successful, so a) often don't care about show they get handed by other people, and b) don't care about 'small' money makers they have. (And, of course, apparently corporations have no fiscal responsibility to their stockholders, you know, actually make that $500,000.)

      Everything is all about who is credited for the next big hit. No one actually cares who makes money. Film studios are completely dysfunctional.

      The future is looking good, though. We've had independent film makers for quite some time, despite there being less stupidity in the film industry...and we're just starting to get independent 'TV studios' as it requires less and less upfront costs for equipment and whatnot.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
  4. Makes sense by loftwyr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    After all, Nielsen reports ratings so that shows can sell more advertising. If the show you're watching doesn't have the same number of ads, then it's useless in terms of advertising sales as it's not apples to apples.

    Nobody in advertising cares if 500,000,000 people watch a show if no ads were seen.

    1. Re:Makes sense by kannibal_klown · · Score: 4, Insightful

      After all, Nielsen reports ratings so that shows can sell more advertising. If the show you're watching doesn't have the same number of ads, then it's useless in terms of advertising sales as it's not apples to apples.

      Nobody in advertising cares if 500,000,000 people watch a show if no ads were seen.

      True, I can see where they're coming from. However I would imagine counting online views as a portion/percentage.

      For example a typical show on Hulu has the same number of commercial breaks as the broadcast equivalent, but maybe 1/5 of the total commercials. IE, for every break there's usually a single 15-60 second commercial (averaging around 30 seconds a piece). So maybe count 5 Hulu viewings as 1 Nielson viewing.

      Then you have paid online content... if an obscene number of viewers are paying iTunes for Show X then that should somehow be aggragated with ratings. After all, the network just received a chunk of change from those sales.

    2. Re:Makes sense by ktappe · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Nobody in advertising cares if 500,000,000 people watch a show if no ads were seen.

      They do if ads can be added to the show in the future. I'd be very interested in such data if I were searching for a place to stick an ad. I'd be especially interested if I could be the only ad in the show, so my ad would stick out instead of being lost among the others. As such, I think Nielsen is being moronic here--advertisers on limited-ad broadcasts should be eager for such data and therefore so should the content producers.

      --
      "We can categorically state we have not released man-eating badgers into the area." - UK military spokesman, July 2007
    3. Re:Makes sense by nightsweat · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Not really. fewer ads in a Hulu broadcast might be worth more as far as the depth of impression made. If you watch "Accidentally on Purpose" on TV, you might watch it because you like Jenna Elfman and think the show is funny. Or, you might just happen to be killing time between "How I Met Your Mother" and "The Big Bang Theory". Neilsen can't tell.

      If, however, you watch Accidentally on Purpose on Hulu, it's because you want to watch Accidentally on Purpose. The ads that are targeted to that crowd are more narrowly and more properly targeted to you the Hulu viewer and shoudl be be more valuable per impression.

      --

      the major advances in civilization are processes which all but wreck the societies in which they occur - A.N. White
    4. Re:Makes sense by ottothecow · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Ahh, but hulu advertisers do not care about the popularity of the program.

      Hulu advertisers get a guaranteed number of viewers and they can try to target specific audiences (not sure how much targeting hulu does). With traditional advertising, you buy a time block and then you hope that people are going to watch it. If the football game on another channel goes into double overtime and half of your expected viewers show up...tough cookies. If only half of the viewers show up on hulu, you only run half the amount of ads.

      From that standpoint, I understand why Nielsen is doing it this way...but at the same time, their ratings end up being factors in other things (like whether or not a show gets canned) and thus they should be reporting on every medium they can. How hard would it be to add a media_source: field in their database and have different advertising and viewership statistics?

      At the same time, why do we need Nielsen for online content? The page counter has existed since the geocities page--We need Nielsen because they can tell us who is watching what OTA broadcast...hulu can already tell us exactly how many times something was watched and probably exactly what parts of the program they watched.

      --
      Bottles.
    5. Re:Makes sense by Rich0 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think it depends on what you're using the metrics for. I'd argue that they should collect everything, and then categorize it appropriately.

      For example, suppose Hulu announces that they'll take one high-cost ad per show. Suddenly advertisers will want to know what their market share is and all that.

      On the other hand, when networks decide what shows to cancel - they don't care about how many people watch the show on mediums other than their own, regardless of whether they have ads or not.

      I suspect that the reason that Neilsen is doing what it is doing is that it is because it is what their customers are looking for. When Hulu pitches their online service to an ad agency they don't need Neilsen to tell them how many people are watching their shows - they already collect that stuff on their own.

    6. Re:Makes sense by jayme0227 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Actually, many television shows are moving towards product placement instead of traditional advertising. Most companies understand that the normal TV model is a thing of the past, considering that many people have DVRs and now stream TV online.

      If you have ever seen the show "Chuck" on NBC, you would see quite a bit of this. For one, part of the show often takes place in an electronics retail store which allows considerable ads to be placed around the store in the form of cardboard cutouts and product displays. Video games are often topics for conversation, including major promotions from Call of Duty and Madden NFL 10 being incorporated (extremely cleverly, I might add) into the storyline. In addition to video games and cars (which have been doing product placement for years), Subway has stated that their product placement with Chuck was one of their most successful ad partnerships ever.

      Now, as far as I'm concerned, it doesn't matter whether Nielsen includes steaming content in their ratings. Any network that streams its own shows should have access to their data without a problem, and if Hulu doesn't already provide this data back to the networks, I doubt it would make much for them to do so. Any ad exec that still bases his decisions solely on Nielsen ratings at this point doesn't deserve his job.

      PS. Watch Chuck. It's a fantastically done spy comedy that always finds its way to cleverly tell a story, even if its premise is a bit old. (Unwitting everyman accidentally gains "superpowers" and must learn to become a hero.)

      --
      But then I realized the cable was blue, so I only gave it one star. I hate blue.
  5. Why do you say this? by IANAAC · · Score: 4, Interesting

    (b) Hulu and everyone else starts to put more advertisements on their shows (more likely, but would also pro

    For those of us with no cable and using only digital OTA, Hulu (and other online sites) replace a DVR. And I think we'd be willing to sit through commercials.

    Call me cheap, but I would, at least.

  6. Re:Worth it? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 3, Informative

    Probably because Hulu depends on the content guys for their existence, and the content guys are going to be increasingly unhappy if, when the provide a show to hulu, the show's Neilsens suffer precisely because the show is popular on hulu.

  7. Why would Hulu need Nielsen Ratings? by Van+Cutter+Romney · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Unlike traditional TV where you need ratings like Nielsen, to get advertisers, Hulu could just show the traffic that comes to their site.

    --
    Help a man when he is in trouble and he will remember you when he is in trouble again.
  8. Re:Worth it? by denmarkw00t · · Score: 3, Insightful

    So? "OH EM GEE OUR NEILSENS DROPPED"

    Seriously, just measure your rating some other way - if you can get a count of viewers from Hulu's site then why even care about Neilsen? I understand they're quite the benchmark for TV, but if you're going to come to the nets you can't just change the rules because of your ties to TV counts - Hulu and other sites already provide stats, why change their model to fit TVs?

  9. Re:Worth it? by sunderland56 · · Score: 3, Informative

    It is hard to understate the importance of Neilsen numbers in Hollywood. The very first thing the average exec does in the morning - before he's even had coffee - is to check the overnight numbers. There *is* no other barometer of success.

    And, these are not computer-savvy execs - for the most part, they grew up when "computer" meant "IBM", and they still have their secretaries print out their emails to be read. So they aren't going to be implementing their own alternate ratings system.

    So the fact that Neilsen is improving the ratings system - however lame these initial improvements are - is going to make things better.

  10. Worthless Media by StormReaver · · Score: 3, Interesting

    My most recent cable TV outage started me thinking about televised entertainment in general. I still remember when cable TV was highly desirable because it didn't have any commercials. Then commercials made occasional appearances in some shows, obviously a trial balloon to measure customer opposition. Then commercials quickly became as prevalent on cable as they were on broadcast TV.

    I have been using MythTV for a couple years, and it's been fantastic. I haven't had to sit through a full commercial in that time, and I'd been loving cable TV again. While I fast-forward through commercials (automatic commercial skip is too unreliable), I sometimes saw something that grabbed my attention. In those cases, I usually watched at least a part of the commercial, and discovered a new product. Most often, though, I saved myself centuries (qualitatively speaking) of agony by not having to watch them.

    When I got engaged, she and I had better things to do with our time than watch TV. Three weeks into our first month together, I realized that I hadn't missed TV at all, but was still paying $60/month for something I hardly used. I called Mediacom (the local cable company), and canceled the "service" last week.

    At the same time, I subscribed to Netflix. For a fraction of the cost of cable, I have a vast choice of movies, a much smaller monthly bill, more reliable service, and a much happier experience overall experience.

    When I first tried Hulu, it was an okay service. I had to sit through a couple 7-10 second commercials every half hour, but that wasn't too intolerable. Then Hulu started lengthening the commercials to 30 seconds. It was still not terribly intolerable, because there was usually only one of them every half hour. Then I started seeing two appear every half hour, and it became clear to me which direction Hulu was headed, so I stopped watching Hulu.

    I'm at a point now where I watch TV only during tornadic weather, and only to watch the news coverage to track the storms. My fiancé and I watch one movie a night in bed before going to sleep, and that's it. We have freed ourselves from television, and we have advertisers' greed to thank for that. We don't miss TV one bit.

    So, Nielson won't count online TV viewing unless its riddled with commercials. If Hulu ever starts to be counted, you can be sure that it has become a worthless service. As far as I'm concerned, it has already become a worthless service.