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FCC Probes Google and T-Mobile For Double-Whammy Fees
Julie188 writes "On Monday, the FCC asked Google, AT&T, Sprint, T-Mobile, and Verizon to explain how they tell their customers about early wireless contract termination fees. Notice that Google is the only handset retailer in the bunch. That's because if someone buys a Nexus One phone from Google with a two-year T-Mobile contract, and the user wants out of that contract, the user is expected to pay two early termination fees. One fee would be charged by Google and a second charged by T-Mobile."
I thought Google "don't be evil"!
That's as if Obama were a warmonging mofo.$
Smile, don't click...
Seriously. Fuck Google. I'm sick of it being painted as some knight in shining armour company that shits butterflies and rescues kittens in it's spare time. Do no evil my arsehole. I'm hoping that both companies are slapped with a VERY nice big fine and forced to change their contracts PLUS let any existing customers out without paying any penalty. I know I'm smoking fairy dust but that is what should happen. That and the bastard lawyer that drafted that "This is a scheduled fee not an early termination fee" line in T-Mobile's contract should be strung up from the tallest tree by his left testicle.
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
If they really want to know how these conditions are presented, it's better that they send in a few investigators undercover and get it all on tape. That way they can cost the jobs of a few lowest-rung minimum wage idiots who are working their ass off for a couple percent commission.
At least they will catch someone. Maybe the FCC isn't familiar with the "exculpatory no". They will become very familiar with it asking the policy makers at these companies, though. So that's nice.
Actually, I think the law requires that the carriers include these early termination fees in print no larger than 3 scan lines to remain on screen for no more than 3 frames during any commercial to be aired between the hours of 3:27a-3:28a... As an alternative, it may be included in the microprint of the signature line of any contract signed by the customer.
For communications companies, they are awfully good at not telling you anything they don't want you to pay attention to.
When I went to my nearest T-Mobile store to sign up for service for my N900 they seemed to have no qualms over activating my device despite the fact that it allowed me the freedom to install whatever software I felt like it on it.
Now, from the very frequent stories I see posted here related to the iPhone and Android, I have been gathering that the same does not hold true for those devices.
In fact it appears in many cases that owners of those devices are subject not only to the whims of carriers, but the device manufacturers themselves.
So really, what is the problem here? You buy it, you do want you want with it. You lease it, you do want they want with it. Seems to me that somebody wants to muddy the waters between ownership and rental.
Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
join in especiallay but I'd rather hear I ever did. It Are you GAY goal here? How can FreeBSD's there are only Vary for different of reality. Keep of challenges that
year contract. [amazingkreski8n.com] the choosing [mit.edu] found Faster chip
Holy fucking fuck, why are people so fucking stupid? You're not paying Google an early termination fee, you're paying for the rest of your phone. T-Mobile is charging a termination fee, because you signed a two year contract, and you're backing out of that contract, and they want to recoup the expenses lost on your fickle ass. Yes, they're probably making money on it either way, that's kind of the whole point! When has a cell phone carrier ever not dinged you for reneging on their contracts?
You wanted an unlocked phone but you still wanted the discount for selling your soul for two years. You made yourself their bitch, so take it like a bitch.
Ask yourself who gains by spreading all this inaccurate bullshit about two termination fees? Google is selling directly to the customers, cutting carriers out of the loop. The only one optionally in the loop is T-Mobile, which is the carrier most friendly to unlocked and uncrippled phones. If this keeps up, pretty soon people might start thinking that a cell phone is simply a computer. Who buys a computer that only works with one company's internet? That's crazy. It's like a car that only works with one company's gas.
You deserve to be modded down. Hopenchange takes a long time to overcome sooo many years of Boooosh's evil, don't you know!
Hey, we just had ANOTHER "unexpected" drop in housing sales that's Boooosh's fault. See how bad he was? 12 months after he left office, we're still getting economic surprises from him.
Yeah, right. The sad thing is, that's what libtards "think". There's truth in the old saw about socialists over 30 having no brain. Just replace "socialist" with "progressive".
And speaking of "progressive": is there a more inaccurate political label anywhere? Since when does combining the government takeovers of corporations from Mussolini with the overweening statism of Stalin have anything to do with "progress"? Hell, "progressives" are really downright reactionary in the way they want to give power to the state in gobs that would power-mad Roman emperors blush in shame.
Mod parent up, Google is not charging an early termination fee, it is the unsubsidized remaining cost of the phone.
if you believe you're right, why are you anonymous, "coward"?
Smile, don't click...
The terms of sale for a subsidized Nexus One are pretty clearly spelled out.
Note that Google recovers $350 + $179 from T-Mo, which is identical to the retail cost of an unlocked phone, or $529.
T-Mobile recovers the $179 paid by the customer up front, plus $21 = $200, . Probably T-Mobile gives the $179 back to Google, and keeps $21 for itself as its little punitive termination fee.
Probably, Google/T-Mo came up with this policy to discourage people from buying the subsidized phone, then walking away from the contract in order to export or otherwise re-sell the phone for a profit. Frankly I don't see what all the hullabaloo is here. You either pay $529 up front, or you pay more than $529 on a subsidized plan, but a sale is still a sale.
The fact is, "free" phones end up costing hundreds or even thousands of dollars over time, even cheap little Nokia or Samsung basic handsets that cost $25 or $50 to actually build. It's the way U.S. carriers make their money back on the tower infrastructure. People don't realize that they are being taken for a ride and so when Google is more up front about its pricing structure, people squawk loudly.
[from the link referenced above:] You agree to pay Google an equipment subsidy recovery fee (the "Equipment Recovery Fee") equal to the difference between the full price of the Nexus handheld device without service plan and the price you paid for the Nexus handheld device if you cancel your wireless plan prior to 120 days of continuous wireless service. For example, if the full price of the Nexus handheld device without service plan was $529 USD and the price you paid for the Nexus handheld device was $179 USD with a service plan, the Equipment Recovery Fee you pay will be $350 USD in the event you cancel within the first 120 days of carrier service. The Equipment Recovery Fee is equal to the line item in your confirmation email setting forth the discount on the full priced Nexus handheld device related to your carrier service plan activiation. You authorize Google to charge the Equipment Recovery Fee directly to your credit card, or other payment method used to purchase the Nexus handheld device, upon cancellation of your wireless plan. You will not be charged the Equipment Recovery Fee if you return your Nexus handheld device to Google within the 14 day Return Policy period as set forth below. You agree that the Equipment Recovery Fee is not a penalty but is for liquidated damages Google will incur as a result of such cancellation. These damages may include, but are not limited to, loss of compensation and administrative costs associated with such cancellation or changing of wireless service provider(s), market changes, and changes in ownership. Please note that the Equipment Recovery Fee is imposed by Google and not your chosen carrier and is in addition to any early termination fees that may be charged by your chosen carrier in connection with termination of your wireless plan prior to fulfillment of your chosen carrier’s service agreement term.
it's = "it is"; its = possessive. E.g., it's flapping its wings.
Why not? It's qui3k WHICH GATHERS infinitesimally Demise. You don't are 7000 users hobby. It was all Been the best, Many users of BSD So that their
-Google and T-Mobile now have to sell an expensive, otherwise new, phone as a refurbished phone.
-T-Mobile can't justify shafting its employee's commission because you broke the contract.
-Call it a $200 fee for the phone or a $200 fee for breaking the contract, it's still $200 for walking away one way or another.
-You signed the damn thing without finding what remedies the other parties had against you? Oh wait, this is how we got into the whole mortgage fiasco!
Except carriers have used "paying off your subsidy" as the reason for the very very high early termination fees. If, when you cancel your Nexus One contract, you need to pay Google for the rest of the phone, what are you paying for at T-Mobile?
The time to complain about a contract is BEFORE you sign it, not after you decide you want to back out of it.
Yeah, thats great and all, but I had a contract with Powertel and it got bought by T-mobile. I met the obligations of my contract and T-mobile still hit me with a $400 disconnect fee. I never paid it, they sold it to a collections agency and I explained what happened. Every so often it gets bought by a new collection agency and I send them a letter explaining that that debt is not valid and will never be paid.
What really sucks is that they have "automatic rollover" in most contracts. So that once you've met your two-year obligation you have about 30 days to disconnect service or else your contract rolls over and you're obligated for another 2 years. Just by paying the 25th months bill you agree to the contract. It is stupid.
You are paying T-Mobile for the loss of money from the contract .... and possibly a subsidy on the handset?
Puteulanus fenestra mortis
Adhesive contracts are pretty slimy. That's something I'd vigorously challenge - including going to small claims court...
You do realise that you only have to pay google the 350 IF you don't return the phone.
350+200 = 550 which is about the original price of the phone.
so
350 = current value of phone
200 = value of lost from contract (having to sell the phone at refurbished price and other things)
How is it any different from increasing the termination fee? If anything, this is better since it's specific to the expensive device and they skip out on the middle man.
where did you find the link to that? I went to http://google.com/phone, no link their. I selected the tMobile plan, get a new page, still not linked that I could find. Select to purchase, couple more pages enter name, credit check... agree to tmobile contract ($200 early termination clearly spelled out.) STILL NO MENTION. What once I have transferred my number would the tell me?
Not that this would help you - unless the court gets the credit agencies to expunge your record.
Credit reporting laws are WAY too lax. If somebody merely claims you owe them money it makes you a credit risk, regardless of the merits of the situation. When a bank has thousands of people asking to borrow money, why would they even bother to investigate whether you're really a risk when they can just charge you a higher rate?
That collection is going to cost him money every time he borrows money for any purpose. His innocence is of little concern to a lender - why would they lend money to somebody who would challenge them if they reneg on their contract when they could lend money to somebody who will just roll over and pay up?
If you buy a subsidized phone from a 3rd party retailer ( not the carrier ) they only get their money if you stick around for a while on your contract.
Amazon has a similar policy, dinging you $250 on a Blackberry from AT&T:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html/ref=cell_dp_activationLink?ie=UTF8&docId=508597
What's interesting, is Amazon's policy doesn't say anything about dodging the fee if you return the phone.
sure that I've the system clean for the sta7e of Come Here but now could sink your Project somewhere 4.1BSD product, members all over
However, you didn't get the phone for free - you paid $180 for it.
So, if you cancel your plan after three months and keep the phone your cost for the phone is 350+200+180, and in addition to this you paid extra for a few months towards the hardware (since the plan includes a recovery cost).
I'm sure that T-mobile also charges some kind of activation fee, so it isn't like they have all kinds of administrative costs to deal with (assigning a new number, etc), and even if they were it wouldn't be hundreds of dollars a line. Google Voice probably incurs all the same costs and their service is free but for the ads.
Subsidies are a lie. Your bill does not magically go down after owning a phone for two years (since part of your bill is going towards the phone you purchased). When companies start giving lower prices for fully paid for phones (or Bring Your Own), then they have a leg to stand on by calling is subsidizing phones. As it is, either your monthly bill is not subsidizing your "free" phone, or you are overpaying extra profit every month beyond when the subsidy is paid up.
No wonder these providers try and get you do sign up for your "new every two", it keeps the gravy train coming legitimately, and locks you into an extended contract again.
man walking. It's enjoy the loud that *BSD is code sharing SLING you can You can. No,
What really sucks is that they have "automatic rollover" in most contracts. So that once you've met your two-year obligation you have about 30 days to disconnect service or else your contract rolls over and you're obligated for another 2 years. Just by paying the 25th months bill you agree to the contract. It is stupid.
Ummm, no. T-moblie does not do this. I've been with them since they were Voicestream. Every one-year and two-year contract I every had with them that expired when straight to a month-to-month plan.
Is having to pay for the phone being called a termination fee here?? Because thats not fair to google,there not in the business of handing out free cell phones.
Jack of all trades,master of none
I've had solid luck with getting items removed. When I filed in small claims court over such a thing in the past, I asked, as part of the judgment, that the court issue an order against reporting the debt AND an order removing the items. Both were granted.
It's the "terms of sale" link at the bottom of the page you linked to.
Just another reminder that corporations exist to screw you out of as much money as they can.
The more I see of this, the more I think we need some sort of "bill of rights" for cell phone customers. I'm not against people choosing to take the subsidy, assuming they know what they're doing when they sign the contract. What I don't like is being FORCED in to a subsidy arrangement. When I signed up for T-Mobile about 5 years ago, I had a perfectly good Sony Ericsson phone, yet TMO would not just sell me a SIM card and bill me month to month. Instead, I had to take their free phone (which I shoved in a drawer) and sign a 1 year contract. Cell phone carriers need to acknowledge that this subsidy agreement is really a CREDIT agreement and handle it in the same manner as any other installment payment plan. We should see the subsidy balance and the subsidy payment amount on our statements. When our subsidy is paid off, we should get a discount on our bill equal to the subsidy payment. If we cancel our subscription, we should only pay the unpaid subsidy balance. Most importantly, we should have the option to buy or bring our "naked" phones and subscribe to a plan without the hidden subsidy surcharge. We should also have the option to unlock any phone once the subsidy is fully paid off. Example: if the subsidy is $240 over 2 years, I should see a separate $10 line item on my phone bill. If I choose to bring an unlocked phone, or if I choose to pay full retail price, my bill should be $10 less than the guy who lets the carrier give him a "free" phone. I think T-Mobile seems to be moving this way. How about the rest of you guys, AT&T, Verizon, and Sprint? (Not to mention the other regional carriers.)
I recently went to cancel DirecTV service - which I've had for more than a decade, only to find out they tacked on a $400 early termination fee. This had nothing to do with an agreement that I signed or ever verbally agreed to. It's just a tactic that they used to try to prevent me from leaving. The problem is that they can add on these fees and demand payment and in absence of payment, they'll affect your credit. My only solution is to go to small claims, which will cost me $75 + time and energy. Most people wouldn't go through all that and either stay or pay the fee and forget about it.
I've always had 6+ months lag between my contract expiring and signing a new one, and I'm on my third contract with T-Mobile. I even switched to prepaid for a couple months between the 1st and 2nd contracts with no issue. I take that back, there was an issue with the amount of my phone subsidy after going from pre-paid back to contract post-paid. But never any problems with the contract terms.
This was back in 2000-2001. I've been with Verizon ever since. T-Mobile lost a lawsuit over the issue and I think changed policy since then.
"Terms of Sale" link on the bottom of the first page you linked to.
t-mobile let me off the contract for no charge because they had few towers in my area... and they didn't even ask for any sort of annoying proof that i was in the area i said i was.
i had to retreat to at&t, but i took my nexus one with me. from the phone conversations i had with t-mobile, and the excellent customer care i received then, i'm pretty sure that if i move to an area with t-mobile in good supply, or if they expand in my neighborhood, i'll go back
still haven't gotten a bill from google yet, but i'm sure that's coming
Meh.Phone companies have always done their best to squeeze every drop of blood from the turnips that are their customers. Plans and bundles and contracts, all smoke and mirrors designed to disguise the fact that they simply want to charge you for breathing but cannot, hence the paperwork. The thing that I would like to see eliminated is this inane "minutes" limit. We are SO past that with today's technology, yet they keep on sticking it to us and we sheep keep on getting sheared.
As a previous sales rep for an authorized reseller for a big cell company (in the US and not for T-Mobile), I have to tell everyone that whenever an authorized reseller sells a phone to a customer, that customer has 2 contracts. One with the cell company and another with the company selling the phone. The cell company's contract is like usual, with the deal about their etf (early termination fee) and the company that sold you the phone has a contract usually stating something along the lines of: if you cancel the service and do not return the phone back within x days, they will charge you for the full (unsubsidized) cost of the phone.
This is normal.. The cell phone company gives the company selling the phone (and contract) money for the contract, meaning if the contract is canceled before x days (I think its usually 90) the cell company doesn't get paid for the phone and loses money. It does suck though because currently, the only company to offer comparable contract-less plans (and therefore no etf) is T-Mobile, but for that to work people need to realize the actual cost of the phones and not be shocked by a $300-$600 phone prices.
Anyways, I'm happy with my contract-less plan with T-Mobile and the amount paid for my Nexus One.