Slashdot Mirror
US Grants Home Schooling German Family Political Asylum
A US judge has granted political asylum to a family who said they fled Germany to avoid persecution for home schooling their children. Uwe Romeike and his wife, Hannelore, moved to Tennessee after German authorities fined them for keeping their children out of school and sent police to escort them to classes. Mike Connelly, attorney for the Home School Legal Defence Association, argued the case. He says, "Home schoolers in Germany are a particular social group, which is one of the protected grounds under the asylum law. This judge looked at the evidence, he heard their testimony, and he felt that the way Germany is treating home schoolers is wrong. The rights being violated here are basic human rights."
Germany has school duty for all children older than six years up to 9 to 12 years in school (depends on the actual state). And "duty" means that a state examined teacher is required for schooling. You want home schooling? Then get the exam, and you are perfectly fine schooling your children at home.
I homeschool my kids. In Texas the laws for home-schooling are quite permissive, since Texas has so many religious whack-jobs. We are required to teach the "basic educational goals of reading, spelling, grammar, math, and a study of good citizenship" -- language from the original statute authorizing private schools. No requirements to teach teh nasty atheist science.
In the 1980s Arlington ISD pulled the same stunt as the German authorities in the article did. The family went to court (Leeper v. Arlington ISD), squandered a fortune, and eventually won a major smack-down to the school district. Since then, we homeschoolers have mostly been left alone. Occasionally a truant officer may harass the kids if they are outside during school hours, but homeschool organizations give instruction to the parents in how to handle the discussion with the truant officer.
We have to keep a basic record of what we taught and when, in case we are challenged about whether we are meeting the "basic educational goals..." listed above, but I do that anyway so that I know what to review later. It's a piece of cake. I can't believe I used to think homeschooling was a scarey responsibility; today I find it equally scarey to trust my sons' minds to a public edifice.
FATMOUSE + YOU = FATMOUSE
Germany did. And they thought that a child has the right to equal chances with every other child in Germany. And that means that it also has the right to an education equivalent to the education all the other children get, and this right is not to be withhold, not even by the child's parents. They are allowed to homeschool their children if they take the exams required by law to be allowed to teach children. The parents didn't, and so the law said, they weren't providing their children equal chances, and thus got fined.
Slashdot likes sparking flamewars related to homeschooling for religious reasons. That's what this will inevitably turn into, and must have been the motivation.
Good. Raising children is the job of parents, not the Government, and it should be perfectly ok for parents to opt out of the school system if it doesn't suit them for any reason. Fascistic governments hate the idea that parents have the freedom to teach their children whatever they want. In Britain we have seen the Government attempting to smear home educators by getting their mouthpieces to spread fear about unchecked child abuse. The pieces are being put into place for an outright ban, and the sad thing is that so-called "liberals" will probably support it on the grounds that it will stop "the children" being "brainwashed" about Jesus, not realising that they are undermining their own freedom to oppose the Government.
You're an immobile computer, remember?
Germany doesn't stop you from educating your children yourself. All you have to do is taking an exam required by law to do so.
The German government apparently does not recognize a parent's right to "protect" children from opposing religious views through home-schooling, and intended to compel attendance.
No, that's not correct. Germany requires that the education is performed by a teacher who took the state exam. The family wasn't able to name a teacher with the required exam to continue the schooling, also the authorities said: You can't prove that you are teaching your children at all, and that's criminal negligence.
Even with a strict set of rules for curriculum, there will still be parents who give extra qualifying information along with such topics.. ie.. Here's all the nonsense that secularists believe, and here is the real truth according to the Holly Bibble. The material is still covered, and you can't eliminate that loophole, so the only solution is ban home schooling outright.
Yes, because parents would never do such a thing outside school time, would they?
Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
Yes, it was clearly the US they were targeting. If they wanted to home-school their German-speaking children, they could easily and freely moved to Switzerland (the eastern part of the country speaks German).
No they couldn't. They might have been able to emigrate to Switzerland, but not "freely" because Switzerland is not in the EU. They would need work permits as a very minimum. If they'd wanted a German speaking country to freely move to it would have had to have been Austria. Like Swizerland, it has a strong dialect of German, but they could get by with High German.
Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
So your kids are going to be able to go to college with the diploma they got at your home? I was home schooled and I found that mommy and daddy saying so doesn't make it so in the real world. I couldn't go to college because I didn't have the required courses like Math 30. I ended up in the trades so I can make enough money to hopefully be able to go to school one day so I don't have to work in a backbreaking enviroment full of cancer causing dust and fumes. And what about being able to interact with people, do you know what it is like to be 18 just started living on your own with absolutly no social skills? My brother is 26 and he can't even talk to a girl.
If the schools are not teaching your kids enough thats what parents are for. School is the minimum if you want your kids to be better that the minimum show some interest and teach them some of the stuff you know. School teaches more than just math or english it teaches life skills like how to deal with people, scheduling your day, respect for authority, all important thing when they enter the job market. And most importantly there are life skills like how to meet a girl rather than to start learning in your early twenties.
Germany is subject to Article 9 of the European Convention on Human Rights:
Freedom of thought, conscience and religion
1. Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience
and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion
or belief and freedom, either alone or in community with
others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief, in
worship, teaching, practice and observance.
2. Freedom to manifest one’s religion or beliefs shall be
subject only to such limitations as are prescribed by law and are
necessary in a democratic society in the interests of public safety,
for the protection of public order, health or morals, or for the protection
of the rights and freedoms of others.
If the parents felt that they were being persecuted, they have a perfectly valid right of appeal via German courts and then the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg. Article 2 of Protocol 1 of the above convention states:
No person shall be denied the right to education. In the exercise
of any functions which it assumes in relation to education and
to teaching, the State shall respect the right of parents to ensure
such education and teaching in conformity with their own religious
and philosophical convictions.
So this would specifically be within Strasbourg's jurisdiction.
Homeschooling was originally banned in Germany by Adolf Hitler in the 1930s, when he wanted to make sure that all German children were indoctrinated in the ways of the Nazi party. The Hitler Youth was the result.
This is utter BS. "Schulpflicht" (compulsory education) is german law since the 18th century (early 19th for some parts of germany). Google translated german wikipedia page here: http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fde.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FSchulpflicht
Moving to Switzerland is quite an undertaking, did you know? You can't even own land unless you're a citizen, which you won't be if you immigrate -- assuming you are allowed in at all.
Used to be the case. Not any more for Europeans.
Wrong.
The bilateral agreement on the free movement of persons between Switzerland and the EU entered into force on 1 June 2002 and facilitates entry, residence and employment in Switzerland for EU-nationals as well as citizens from Norway, Iceland (EFTA members) and - conditionally - Liechtenstein.
EU-citizens have complete freedom of movement within Switzerland and Swiss citizens within EU-countries. Since the 12th of December 2008 the Swiss Confederation is a full member of Shengen.
Sorry you had a bad experience, and obviously your parents didn't really know what they were doing and didn't plan ahead, but that doesn't mean the practice should be illegal. I was homeschooled for the last nine years before college (yes, I went), and my parents had the presence of mind to work with a private school for the last three of those years. I took lab courses there (one a year: Chem, Bio, etc.), met with a teacher once a week who rubber stamped all the work I did at home for my mother (who put together the curriculum and graded my work). I graduated with a diploma from the school which continues to keep my transcripts.
Homeschooling is an individual experience. It can be done poorly or above reproach. Don't judge everybody based on a limited sampling, even if that's your own family. And as for being social, I have all the friends I want, and I'm married.
I support the Slashcott and will not be reading or commenting from 2/10/14 to 2/17/14. Beta is steaming pile of dog shit
The German government doesn't give a shit about home schooling. However, every German child has the right to a good education and the law defines that as an education by federally tested and approved* teachers (after all, how else do you ensure that a teacher fulfils basic quality criteria?).
Had one of the two parents passed the First State Examination (there are two but the second applies only if you want to teach at a public school) everything would've been okay. But none of them has and thus the law can't verify that they're actually fit to teach. Since it's not certain that the children are getting an adequate education the usual procedure applies and the police enforce that the children are getting educated by a qualified professional; a public school is the usual place for that so that's where the children go.
The argument behind the whole issue is that the education of our children is too important to leave it to someone who has no idea what he's doing. I tend to agree.
* Apparently, a Master of Education also applies so if you think German universities are going to brainwash you into a slave of the government you can also get your qualification elsewhere.
USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
In Germany, it is. Chapter 6(2) of the German Constitution states that it is the parent's right and also responsibility to provide education, and Chapter 7(4) and 7(5) define the general acceptance of private schools if they meet a minimal standard. Especially Chapter 7(5) states that a private primary school has to be allowed as community school or for religious or ideological reasons.
So the family Romeike in the above case had the right to educate their children, if they had followed certain minimal standards, which mostly concern the infrastructure of the school and the minimum education of the teachers.
Yeah, just look at this tiny list of colleges that accept homeschoolers:
http://learninfreedom.org/colleges_4_hmsc.html
Tinny little crappy schools like Harvard, Yale, USC, West Point, Annapolis, Rennselaer, Princeton...
If you ended up in trades it's not the University's fault, nor is it the fault of homeschooling in general. You either didn't bother to look for an answer or you didn't think ahead to create the proper portfolio when you were in your last few tears of schooling. Either way, it's a personal issue, not the concept of homeschooling, that's at fault.
Ditto your socially useless brother. For every homeschooler you point to with social issues, I'll point to 100 kids in normal school who are socially inept. Can you really look at society today and say that geeks that can't talk to girls is the fault of homeschooling? Not likely. Homeschoolers are higher in civic participation, volunteerism, community involvement and other indicators. Are some of them awkward? Sure. Are some of them great socially? Sure. Just like the rest of the world.
Homeschooling is in no way a human right.
Pardon? As long as the schooling meets minimum state testing requirements, it is and should always be the right of the parents to choose whether to put their child in public school, private school, or homeschool. Depending on where you go, the public or private school education available in your area may involve significant amounts of religious and philosophical propaganda which you won't necessarily want your young child subjected to, even here in the US where that isn't supposed to happen. What's important is that the child ends up getting a testably equivalent (or better) education to what public schooling provides, not that they be forced into attending a state-approved facility.
There are many people, particularly in the US, who would argue that you are utterly wrong on this point, and the law is behind them. Quite a lot of the folks who support homeschooling are NOT right-wing religious nuts, as you seem to imply with your subject line.
This turns out not to be the case.
For what it's worth, historians of science note an amazing number of British "polymath geniuses" from the seventeenth through the nineteenth centuries -- all of them home-schooled.
"My opinions are my own, and I've got *lots* of them!"
I got a friend who also 'graduate high school' at 15 via home schooling through American School of Correspondence. I often brags about how ridiculously easy it was to game the system. Basically every test is open book. And since it was all done at his home, his 'book' was Google. I says he would literally get an entire years worth of schoolwork done in a month or two. Biggest benefit for him is being able to put on his resume he 'graduated high school at 15'. People automatically assume he's way ahead of the curve intellectually (he certainly is not) and it has helped his career. He has been offered opportunities that others his age only dream of. Pretty good angle actually.
I judt got a nre Kinesis keybiartf so please excusr ant egregiou typos.
FWIW, the National Spelling Bee has been dominated Statistically, the case that home-schoolers average far better than public-schoolers is iron-clad.
"My opinions are my own, and I've got *lots* of them!"
you haven't volunteered in a grade school classroom, have you? Have you even gone to parent teacher lectures? I've done both. And yes, 5 year old's kindergarten teacher told me that I should "stop having her read because she's getting ahead" of the other children. Yes, smartass reads at a 2.9 grade level, as averaged by the books she chooses off her shelf. (my wife's the mathemetician, I smile and nod) and probably has a good example from my library. We're probably going to start homeschooling them the next time we move, because the best public school we found within 30 miles of this base is still a miserable failure. But, the football team did go undefeated.
The difference is that, by and large, Catholic schools these days have a "religion" class, and then, for all practical purposes, the education is demanding, high-quality *secular* education.
At least, that's how it is in the first world
/went to 12 years of Catholic primary and secondary education
//favorite anecdote: Biology teacher was a Creationist but realized his job was to teach Biology, not preach, so taught a demanding evolution-based curriculum
///not sure why I'm using Fark slashies today
It has to do with the fact that in most jurisdictions, homeschooled kids being out and about during school is treated as prima facie evidence of wrongdoing on the part of the parents and can subject them to having their kids forced back into public schools or even taken away in some areas.
And the kids are told all about that, which is why they aren't entirely at ease.
I've dealt with several homeschooling peers; when they were adults they were perfectly fine at social interactions.
From the same declaration, Article 26: ... Elementary education shall be compulsory. ...
Free Manning, jail Obama.
Don't the majority of home-schoolers do it because they're afraid of evil secular concepts like evolution and geological history?
No. Most that I know do it because they believe their kids will get a better, more well-rounded, more detailed, and overall far superior education that way. I know some agnostic and atheist homeschoolers, and a majority of the Christian homeschoolers I know are not anti-evolution.
They are, however, pro-Pluto, and I applaud them for this!
And this should be a clue ... in the evangelical and protestant tradition, perhaps the most pervasive characteristic of adherents is that of independent thinking. This is, of course, how Protestantism began, and it's not stopped since. So when an arbitrary body of men says, "Pluto isn't a planet anymore," the evangelical Protestant often replies, "who are you to define that for me?" You see this response in marriage rights, too, of course, and it was also the main reasoning behind the Scopes Trial: not that evolution was right or wrong, but who are YOU to push it on us, if we don't want to think about it or believe it?
And of course, this also is seen in homeschooling directly: who is GOVERNMENT to tell me I have to follow ITS rules for MY kids? And we see this throughout American history, from the Mayflower colonists through the War of Independence and even the Civil War.
Not that this is only seen in evangelical Protestantism, but it is more pervasive there than in many other traditions/subcultures/etc.
So this independent streak, combined with the very low quality generally of public schools today, have been the main fuel for the rise in homeschooling in recent years.
As far as I'm concerned, as long as home schooling is used to shelter children from real information, or present it from a "religious perspective", it should be outlawed.
"As far as I'm concerned, as long as free speech is used in ways I don't like, it should be outlawed."
Yeah, no, you're not making sense.
Even with a strict set of rules for curriculum, there will still be parents who give extra qualifying information along with such topics.. ie.. Here's all the nonsense that secularists believe, and here is the real truth according to the Holly Bibble.
That's THEIR choice, not YOURS and not the government's.
You expressly want the government to decide for everyone what Truth is. Down this way lies utter madness, weeping, and gnashing of teeth.
Thank you for saying that, it really is a shame it needed to be said.
Our children are now eight and nine, they have been homeschooled since kindergarten. My wife and I are both atheists and our reason for homeschooling is definitely not religious, in fact we have gone out of our way to teach comparative religion so the kids will understand all the cultural influences of, and references to, the major religions.
Initially we had two main reasons for homeschooling:
We priced private school options and decided that on balance we would rather downsize and reduce our income (I went from full time employee to just doing part time consulting work and my wife closed her part time hobby business and found a full-time job with health benefits) in order for one of us to stay home and take care of the education ourselves.
On the subject of socialization, we have observed our kids 'socializing', we deliberately chose a house in an area with a lot of families with school age children and they play together outside after school almost every evening and at weekends without any issues. In order to give them more interaction with other kids in a structured environment they played in a soccer league for several seasons (5-8), we ended up coaching a team but that is another story. My observations in that environment were that the public school kids did not have better socialization skills, if anything the homeschoolers on the teams stood out as leaders and mediators. In fact I would go as far as to say that the homeschoolers in general had good social skills, being cooperative and enthusiastic team players, going out of their way to both motivate and involve other kids and speaking up loudly and clearly, whereas the majority of the public school kids had what could only be called anti-social skills often being rebellious, moody, shy and exhibiting poor listening skills.
As I type this my 3rd/4th graders are hand coding web pages for their sites on our home web server. We use these websites for them to be creative and publish information they are interested in, mostly animal pictures and art for our daughter but Lego and video games for our son. In addition each of their home pages have a link to their school work where they publish their book reports, essays and scanned images of their art work. I just fielded a question from my eight year old on how to use CSS to give the first element in a list a different format to the rest of the list! They both keep bugging me to start teaching them how to make their pages more dynamic and include input fields to gather data.
On the flip side...there are very few good resources for secular homeschoolers. Most of the support groups and a lot of the available curriculums are very religious and of no use to us. The major national home school groups typically cater to the majority religiously focused home school families and even include prayer and other more distasteful activities at their meetings and conferences.
Home schoolers rarely follow a curriculum
BWAHAHAHAHAHA.
Okay, that's enough. No, really. Stop it, you're killing me here.
Do you realize how HUGE the homeschool curriculum market is? Many folks order a big box from some place like Abeka or Saxon Textbooks or some other "school in a box" company and hand out the books. Just like "real school". The trade shows and conferences for curriculum are massive. Look on homeschool forums, and 90% of what you find is "Which curriculum should I get for [x subject]?" Online schooling, and satellite school are increasing every year.
It's a running joke that the first thing homeschoolers say when they meet is "What curriculum do you use?"
Seriously, read something about your subject before you post again.
I was homeschooled up until the middle of high school. At that point we had a discussion about my future educational goals and I decided that going to University was what I wanted to do. Although it was apparently possible to just take the SATs and go based on those scores I thought it would be easier to get a high school diploma. So I got the local high school to look through my homeschooling work I had done. Some was deemed equivalent and I got credit for it. Some was close enough, so I just had to take the final exam for the course to get credit. I did take some courses in school because I hadn't completed everything at home, but in most of those courses I was ahead of the rest of the class. I graduated on the honour's list, and got accepted to several universities. I have now graduated from university and am making it in the real world just fine.
Social skills don't have to be learned in school. I was part of several other organizations (cadets, scouts, youth group), where I learned how to interact with other people. Not just other people of my own age group either like I would if I only learned these skills in school.