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US Grants Home Schooling German Family Political Asylum

A US judge has granted political asylum to a family who said they fled Germany to avoid persecution for home schooling their children. Uwe Romeike and his wife, Hannelore, moved to Tennessee after German authorities fined them for keeping their children out of school and sent police to escort them to classes. Mike Connelly, attorney for the Home School Legal Defence Association, argued the case. He says, "Home schoolers in Germany are a particular social group, which is one of the protected grounds under the asylum law. This judge looked at the evidence, he heard their testimony, and he felt that the way Germany is treating home schoolers is wrong. The rights being violated here are basic human rights."

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  1. Home schooling vs. school duty by Sique · · Score: 5, Informative

    Germany has school duty for all children older than six years up to 9 to 12 years in school (depends on the actual state). And "duty" means that a state examined teacher is required for schooling. You want home schooling? Then get the exam, and you are perfectly fine schooling your children at home.

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    .sig: Sique *sigh*
    1. Re:Home schooling vs. school duty by Sique · · Score: 4, Informative

      No, you don't. There are enough private schools with different methods and different curricula: Montessori, Waldorf, christian schools...

      All you have to warrant is that the teacher has at least the First State Exam (there is a second one required if you want to teach at a public school).

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      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    2. Re:Home schooling vs. school duty by Ihlosi · · Score: 5, Informative
      The Nazi anti-homosexuality law was kept on the books in West Germany until 1994, as but one example. (East Germany got rid of it in 1950.)

      That law popped into existence in 1872. That was before Hitler was even born.

      And Germany nowadays still unpopular bans political parties, movements, and speech as zealously as the Nazis did.

      Oh, yeah, right. That's why I find 20-odd parties on my ballot every election, including several different flavors of commies, Nazis, fundies and other assorted nutcases. Can you even name the last fscking party that was actually banned in Germany? I'll help you, that was over half a century ago. Can you name the total number of parties that were banned in West Germany, ever? I'll help you, too: It's a very, very small number. So small that using the plural form almost isn't justified.

      And one of the most interesting things is that the modern German term for a "citizen" is Staatsangehörige, which literally means "subject of the State" and not "citizen."

      Nope. It literally means "someone who's affiliated with a certain state".

      http://dict.leo.org/ende?lp=ende&lang=de&searchLoc=0&cmpType=relaxed&sectHdr=on&spellToler=on&chinese=both&pinyin=diacritic&search=angeh%F6riger&relink=on

      At the end of the Nazi regime, guess which term went away? Not Staatsangehörige, but Reichsbürger.

      Yes. Duh. Guess why they wanted to throw out anything that made Germans think they'd have a "Reich" (empire) or something. Might it have something to do with two German states calling themselves "Reich" of some sort being involved in not one, but two World Wars? They'd rather want the Germans to have rather loose ties with their country, to keep nationalism from popping up yet again.

    3. Re:Home schooling vs. school duty by DrVomact · · Score: 4, Informative

      Big fan of home schooling myself, however the biggest problem with home schooling isn't the quality of education. It is the lack of socialization. Home school kids are massively underdeveloped socially, they miss out on a lot of cues that the rest of the population learned the hard way in social environment.

      I suppose maybe there's something to that. We homeschooled our daughter, and her idea of socializing is to text her friends, chat via computer, play MMOs or (gasp) computer games with her father over the home LAN. Yep, I'm afraid she's definitely abnormal.

      She's going to graduate from the local state university after the current semester (she's 19). I figure when she starts working, maybe her "socialization" will improve. She's going to look for work as a science teacher in the public schools (she's doing her student teaching stint now). And yes, I do savor the irony...

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      Great men are almost always bad men--Lord Acton's Corollary
    4. Re:Home schooling vs. school duty by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 4, Informative

      Big fan of home schooling myself, however the biggest problem with home schooling isn't the quality of education. It is the lack of socialization. Home school kids are massively underdeveloped socially, they miss out on a lot of cues that the rest of the population learned the hard way in social environment.

      Sorry, once again you have bought into the propaganda of the education establishment. There have been several studies that indicate that home schooled kids are better socialized (that is they are less likely to have sociopathic and/or psychopathic tendencies and are more likely to be well adjusted social individuals) than children who have gone through public schools.
      This even makes sense if you think it through. First, most home school parents are part of home schooling groups so thier kids get social time with other children. Second, most "socialization" in schools occurs with minimal or no adult supervision. Do you really believe that children develop desirable social traits by learning how to interact with others from other children?

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      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
  2. I do it by inviolet · · Score: 4, Informative

    I homeschool my kids. In Texas the laws for home-schooling are quite permissive, since Texas has so many religious whack-jobs. We are required to teach the "basic educational goals of reading, spelling, grammar, math, and a study of good citizenship" -- language from the original statute authorizing private schools. No requirements to teach teh nasty atheist science.

    In the 1980s Arlington ISD pulled the same stunt as the German authorities in the article did. The family went to court (Leeper v. Arlington ISD), squandered a fortune, and eventually won a major smack-down to the school district. Since then, we homeschoolers have mostly been left alone. Occasionally a truant officer may harass the kids if they are outside during school hours, but homeschool organizations give instruction to the parents in how to handle the discussion with the truant officer.

    We have to keep a basic record of what we taught and when, in case we are challenged about whether we are meeting the "basic educational goals..." listed above, but I do that anyway so that I know what to review later. It's a piece of cake. I can't believe I used to think homeschooling was a scarey responsibility; today I find it equally scarey to trust my sons' minds to a public edifice.

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    FATMOUSE + YOU = FATMOUSE
    1. Re:I do it by inviolet · · Score: 5, Informative

      How do you address the social aspects of school? A valuable part of being in school was learning how to interact with new people, larger groups, and authority respectfully and responsibly. Its unfortunate, but part of being a productive adult is working with difficult strangers or at least working around them.

      They're in martial arts twice a week. They're in scouts and sports. We live on a cul-de-sac full of kids. They are on robotics competition teams organized by the homeschool supply store. And they have responsibilities at home which we treat like a salaried job. If anything they are spending too much time with others -- I miss having them around every afternoon.

      Where was the line for you between, "I'll do this myself" and "Extend/correct/expound/refine what they learned at school"? Of the teachers I know, the best students weren't always the smartest but they were the ones whose parents took an active interest in what they were learning and who added on to that at home. Even the ultra-religious, "Harry Potter is a sin", parents got some respect for actually being aware of what their kids were being exposed to.

      What tipped the scale for me was hearing them grouse about being bored at school -- even at the private schools (Montessouri and then Lutheran) that we sent them to for four years. Having now taught two students for two years, it seems insane to try to educate more than one or two kids at a time -- they end up sitting bored while the slow kid soaks up all the teacher's attention.

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      FATMOUSE + YOU = FATMOUSE
  3. Re:Hey Germany by Sique · · Score: 5, Informative

    Germany did. And they thought that a child has the right to equal chances with every other child in Germany. And that means that it also has the right to an education equivalent to the education all the other children get, and this right is not to be withhold, not even by the child's parents. They are allowed to homeschool their children if they take the exams required by law to be allowed to teach children. The parents didn't, and so the law said, they weren't providing their children equal chances, and thus got fined.

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    .sig: Sique *sigh*
  4. Re:Good by Sique · · Score: 4, Informative

    Germany doesn't stop you from educating your children yourself. All you have to do is taking an exam required by law to do so.

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    .sig: Sique *sigh*
  5. Re:Religion, not schooling by Sique · · Score: 4, Informative

    The German government apparently does not recognize a parent's right to "protect" children from opposing religious views through home-schooling, and intended to compel attendance.

    No, that's not correct. Germany requires that the education is performed by a teacher who took the state exam. The family wasn't able to name a teacher with the required exam to continue the schooling, also the authorities said: You can't prove that you are teaching your children at all, and that's criminal negligence.

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    .sig: Sique *sigh*
  6. Re:Really? by JoshDD · · Score: 4, Informative

    So your kids are going to be able to go to college with the diploma they got at your home? I was home schooled and I found that mommy and daddy saying so doesn't make it so in the real world. I couldn't go to college because I didn't have the required courses like Math 30. I ended up in the trades so I can make enough money to hopefully be able to go to school one day so I don't have to work in a backbreaking enviroment full of cancer causing dust and fumes. And what about being able to interact with people, do you know what it is like to be 18 just started living on your own with absolutly no social skills? My brother is 26 and he can't even talk to a girl.
    If the schools are not teaching your kids enough thats what parents are for. School is the minimum if you want your kids to be better that the minimum show some interest and teach them some of the stuff you know. School teaches more than just math or english it teaches life skills like how to deal with people, scheduling your day, respect for authority, all important thing when they enter the job market. And most importantly there are life skills like how to meet a girl rather than to start learning in your early twenties.

  7. Re:Religion, not schooling by bloobloo · · Score: 5, Informative

    Germany is subject to Article 9 of the European Convention on Human Rights:

    Freedom of thought, conscience and religion

    1. Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience
    and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion
    or belief and freedom, either alone or in community with
    others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief, in
    worship, teaching, practice and observance.

    2. Freedom to manifest one’s religion or beliefs shall be
    subject only to such limitations as are prescribed by law and are
    necessary in a democratic society in the interests of public safety,
    for the protection of public order, health or morals, or for the protection
    of the rights and freedoms of others.

    If the parents felt that they were being persecuted, they have a perfectly valid right of appeal via German courts and then the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg. Article 2 of Protocol 1 of the above convention states:

    No person shall be denied the right to education. In the exercise
    of any functions which it assumes in relation to education and
    to teaching, the State shall respect the right of parents to ensure
    such education and teaching in conformity with their own religious
    and philosophical convictions.

    So this would specifically be within Strasbourg's jurisdiction.

  8. Re:Good by Jesus_666 · · Score: 5, Informative

    The German government doesn't give a shit about home schooling. However, every German child has the right to a good education and the law defines that as an education by federally tested and approved* teachers (after all, how else do you ensure that a teacher fulfils basic quality criteria?).

    Had one of the two parents passed the First State Examination (there are two but the second applies only if you want to teach at a public school) everything would've been okay. But none of them has and thus the law can't verify that they're actually fit to teach. Since it's not certain that the children are getting an adequate education the usual procedure applies and the police enforce that the children are getting educated by a qualified professional; a public school is the usual place for that so that's where the children go.

    The argument behind the whole issue is that the education of our children is too important to leave it to someone who has no idea what he's doing. I tend to agree.


    * Apparently, a Master of Education also applies so if you think German universities are going to brainwash you into a slave of the government you can also get your qualification elsewhere.

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    USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
  9. Re:Religion, not schooling by he-sk · · Score: 4, Informative

    From the same declaration, Article 26: ... Elementary education shall be compulsory. ...

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