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Shuttle Endeavour Blasts Off For Space Station

Gwmaw writes "The space shuttle Endeavour bolted off its seaside launch pad on Monday on a voyage to install the last two main pieces of the International Space Station. The 4:14 a.m. EST (0914 GMT) blastoff from the Kennedy Space Center shattered the predawn tranquility with a deafening roar and a brilliant tower of flames that momentarily turned the dark Florida sky as bright as day." HD video of launch attached.

33 of 133 comments (clear)

  1. Extended? by Chris+Lawrence · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Now that the return to the moon has been cancelled, I wonder if NASA will extend Shuttle missions beyond this year? They have already hinted they may extend the life of the ISS, but are they going to rely on the Russians for the next ten years?

    1. Re:Extended? by djmartins · · Score: 4, Funny

      If they do extend shuttle flights it will only take a few years to blow up the ones they have left....

    2. Re:Extended? by vlm · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If they do extend shuttle flights it will only take a few years to blow up the ones they have left....

      It may be modded funny right now, but its also correct. If an orbiter is destroyed every 50 flights, and they launch ten times per year, and they've only got two available (because of the need for a ready to go rescue orbiter).

      The funny part, is the only reason the shuttle program exists is to visit the station, and the only reason the station exists is to have a place for the shuttle to go. Every other purpose had to be removed to save money in budget crunches. So now that the shuttles are going away, the "almost finished" station will be deorbited in 3... 2... 1...

      It's kind of the spacecraft equivalent of "dig a hole and fill it back in, repeat". No one makes money off a built station that has been budget crunched to the point that it does nothing. But you can make lots of money by building a station.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    3. Re:Extended? by sznupi · · Score: 4, Informative

      Shuttle supply chain is winding now for quite some time, I wouldn't be very surprised if continuing it would be end up similarly costly to pushing Constellation and both Ares rockets forward...but with only three orbiters and not much to do with them.

      Shuttle is past its time; it wasn't really used as intented (landing quickly after launch to escape shutdown attempt), bringing down satellites was quickly abandoned, new space telescopes are beyond its abilities anyway, and we can launch space station modules performing rendezvous by themselves. We just need it this last few times to launch modules...designed to be launched by Shuttle.

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
    4. Re:Extended? by Chris+Lawrence · · Score: 5, Interesting

      So, without the new Constellation Program, we're looking at what, fifteen years before the US has manned spaceflight capability again? Even if NASA spends time doing research for Mars, a lot of practical and institutional knowledge is going to be lost during this period. There was already going to be five years of depending on the Russians to get to the ISS, now if this is extended, we could be looking at ten years or more. I hate to say it, but this really looks like the death of US space exploration, not a refocusing as the Obama administration is trying to spin it.

      http://www.watchinghistory.com/2009/11/future-of-space-exploration.html

    5. Re:Extended? by stoolpigeon · · Score: 5, Interesting

      That's weird. I could swear the shuttle performed a rather significant mission recently that did not involve going to the space station.
       
      I have to confess, while watching the launch this morning I didn't really care about what's practical or needed. A night launch of the shuttle is the most impressive feat of human engineering I have ever witnessed. When I was a kid working on an aircraft carrier I thought that was pretty cool, and it is to some extent, but the shuttle is in a completely different league of awesome. Lighting up the night sky is not hyperbole. I live an hour drive from Kennedy and it looks like the sun is coming up when they fire the engines. Then, when the shuttle lifts from the pad, it gets even brighter. Which my head has a difficult time taking in. I'll be sad to see it go, even if it does make sense.

      --
      It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
    6. Re:Extended? by Geoffrey.landis · · Score: 2, Informative

      Now that the return to the moon has been cancelled, I wonder if NASA will extend Shuttle missions beyond this year?

      Extremely unlikely; Congress zeroed out the money to do that, and so the parts simply aren't in the pipeline and the facilities to prepare for flights beyond 2010 have shut down. If they wanted to keep the shuttle flying, they needed to have kept that option open (with funding) several years ago.

      If they do extend shuttle flights it will only take a few years to blow up the ones they have left....

      It may be modded funny right now, but its also correct. If an orbiter is destroyed every 50 flights, and they launch ten times per year

      I don't think any of these assumptions are correct. It was about a hundred flights between the first shuttle loss and the second, so it's hard to justify an estimated loss rate much higher than about one in a hundred (and if the Columbia problem is indeen understood and mitigated, less.) And they've never had a flight rate of ten per year before, so it's unlikely that they would increase the flight rate when the program is cancelled.

      --
      http://www.geoffreylandis.com
    7. Re:Extended? by jollyreaper · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The funny part, is the only reason the shuttle program exists is to visit the station, and the only reason the station exists is to have a place for the shuttle to go. Every other purpose had to be removed to save money in budget crunches. So now that the shuttles are going away, the "almost finished" station will be deorbited in 3... 2... 1...

      It's kind of the spacecraft equivalent of "dig a hole and fill it back in, repeat". No one makes money off a built station that has been budget crunched to the point that it does nothing. But you can make lots of money by building a station.

      Now that the station on longer has to be in a shuttle-accessible orbit, could we not fit it with a nifty little ion engine and slowly boost it to a higher altitude?

      --
      Kwisatz Haderach
      Sell the spice to CHOAM
      This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
    8. Re:Extended? by DerekLyons · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Now that the station on longer has to be in a shuttle-accessible orbit, could we not fit it with a nifty little ion engine and slowly boost it to a higher altitude?

      Not really. Much higher and the other vehicles (Soyuz, ATV, etc...) won't be able to reach it either. On top of that, while under thrust the micro gee environment aboard the station will ruined, ruining practically every experiment onboard.

    9. Re:Extended? by dpilot · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So the number of "Space Camps" is increasing...

      The biggest camp is the "Every decision NASA makes is wrong"
      - The Shuttle is the biggest boondoggle ever, we never should have dropped the Apollo-era Big Dumb Booster.
      - Dropping the Shuttle is the dumbest idea ever, we've set our technology back 40 years.
      - Etc, with every decision NASA makes

      Then we have the closely related camp, "Everything the government does is wrong, and the private sector can do it better and cheaper."

      Now that we're about to test that theorem, at least with LEO access, a new camp has emerged, saying that by dropping LEO access, NASA has abandoned human space travel for the US. Interestingly enough, it has taken Aries from "can't possibly work" to "can't do without it" status.

      This of course is closely related to the "Obama (and Democrats, in general) is ALWAYS wrong" and "Bush (and Republicans, in general) is ALWAYS wrong" camps.

      I prefer to belong to none of the above camps. Through my career I've noticed in general that killed projects tend to develop a sunny afterglow, problems forgotten. Projects that are killed before ever being tested in the real world get a particularly sunny afterglow.

      --
      The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
    10. Re:Extended? by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In theory, but actually, if Hubble had been launched the same way KH satellites are, once the optical flaw was found Congress would have never budgeted the money to NASA to build one that worked. So we'd be stuck with the joke that Hubble couldn't see and no one would have floated another space telescope.

      Hubble isn't an excuse for the Shuttle, the Shuttle was an excuse to upgrade the only astronomy space telescope.

    11. Re:Extended? by rbanffy · · Score: 2, Informative

      There are a couple good reasons to place it at the altitude it is. One is the higher it is the less cargo you can ferry there (you trade height for fuel mass). Another is space junk. If it is in a height that needs regular boosts to stay there, it also means junk that happens to be in that altitude will fall down to Earth, rendering that space relatively junk free. The station would need more bulletproofing if it were to go higher.

    12. Re:Extended? by Graymalkin · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This is a bit of an absurd statement. Even if absolutely every aspect of the Area I program went according to plan it wouldn't see a manned mission until 2016. Even then it will only do a handful of launches per year (IIRC only two Orion missions are scheduled per year once they begin) with each costing about a billion dollars. Since the Ares I can barely launch the Orion with a crew on board the only thing it can do is send crews to the ISS. Until the Ares V is finished and actually working the Ares I is a billion dollar taxi ride to the ISS. It simply cannot do anything else. That same taxi ride on a Soyuz would only cost about $75m as the Russians only charge $25m a seat on the Soyuz. SpaceX is feeling pretty confident about the Falcon 9 and NASA is planning to use them as a taxi service as well.

      The Orion is not necessarily a bad spacecraft but the Ares program was basically a jobs program for major STS contractors. I think it should be obvious now that Ares was chosen over other HLVs because it could funnel money into Congressional districts with contractors or NASA facilities. Ares is a aerospace contractor jobs program. It wasn't a good idea on paper and it has turned out to be even worse in practice. The Obama administration proposing to axe the program and refocus on developing a real HLV (like DIRECT or the SDLV) is exactly what needs to happen. The job of the Ares I can be done entirely by the Soyuz or the Falcon 9 for a much better cost.

      A good portion of NASA is bureaucracy and if that gets trimmed by axing the Ares program then all the better. A lot of them can easily get jobs in the private sector weighing down the middles of corporations so they shouldn't be out of work long.

      --
      I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
    13. Re:Extended? by mcgrew · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I saw all the shuttle launches before the Challenger tragedy (we moved back to Illinois prior to that), and indeed they were spectacular. I was surprised that I could see the night launch even when visiting my mom's house in Tampa.

      However, the most spectacular technological sight I've seen is an SR-71 taking off. It may be that I was a lot closer; the closest I ever was to a shuttle launch was maybe five or so miles.

      The shuttle talkes off gracefully, gaining speed as it rises. The SR-71, otoh, builds speed quickly going down the runway, and a half mile away it's as loud as the shuttle from 5-10 miles. It taxis FAST, does a wheelie, and about three seconds later it's gone straight up and disappears. It looks like a bottle rocket taking off.

      They had nine of them at Beale when I was stationed there. Google Maps satellite view shows two of them still there (or did last time I looked).

      Of course, the cold war was still going on then and we were always a half hour away from Armageddon. There were literally more B-52s there than I could count, all loaded with thermoneuclear bombs. That plane, BTW, is the scariest looking machine I ever saw, impressive in its own way. Both outdid anything science fiction movie special effects guys at the time could envision.

      I'd have liked to have seen a Saturn V lift off. I'd bet its takeoff would put a Shuttle takeoff or an SR71 takeoff to shame. They have one on display at the cape, that thing is HUGE. It looks like a round skyscraper laying on its side.

  2. Is this really news? by elrous0 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    And, considering the bleak future of the shuttle program, the ISS, and manned spaceflight in general, wouldn't a more appropriate headline be "NASA puts another $700 million on the national credit card for our grandkids to pay off"?

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    1. Re:Is this really news? by hairyfeet · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Which right there tells me we shouldn't be sending people out into space anymore. It is a colossal waste of money to send us weak ass little humans, who need protection for our weak bodies, plus food, water, a place to go to the toilet, etc, instead of robots. The robots are cheaper, take up less resources, can stay longer and thus get more work done, just better all around.

      Until we figure out some new forms of propulsion it is just a waste of time and money to send us weak little humans. While the whole "Buck Rogers/ Star trek" idea is nice, with current means of transportation it is just too impractical, when the robots can do it better for cheaper. We just need to accept with current tech space is for the robots, who can take the multi-year trips necessary to get anywhere interesting and get any real work done. Humans in space was fine during the Cold War when we wanted an American standing there with a flag as an FU to the Russians, but that time is past folks. Time to let it go.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    2. Re:Is this really news? by ColdWetDog · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Which right there tells me we shouldn't be sending people out into space anymore. It is a colossal waste of money to send us weak ass little humans, who need protection for our weak bodies, plus food, water, a place to go to the toilet, etc, instead of robots.

      And we should not continue farm subsidies, wars in obscure places for no strategic interest or gain, enormous financial support for incompetent bankers, stock traders, real estate mavens and a host of other dumb things the government does.

      NASA is a really cheap date when you look at the totality of the US budget.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  3. Think of it as a wake instead by OldEarthResident · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Try thinking of it as a wake for the US manned spaceflight program.

    It saddens me to see the US lose it's manned spaceflight capability.

    --
    I have a unusual vision problem which the NHS has failed to diagnose. Can you help? More at failedbythenhs.blogspot.com
  4. two pre-order for Shuttle parts by peter303 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Those factories have been mothballed and the employees reassigned or laid off. There might be enough spare parts for an extra science mission Bush canceled a few years ago.

  5. Last Night Launch by realsilly · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It was a glorious morning when my alarm beeped at 4:10am. I awoke, turned on the TV to the pre-set NASA channel, checked to make sure the launch was still 'a Go'. I then donned a bathrobe over my birthday suit, watched the last 10 seconds on TV until I heard "We have Liftoff" and stepped out on my back porch. I looked to the east and the tree line was shadowed in a orange glow that was beautiful during the pre-dawn hours. The sky was clear and the air was crisp and the sight of the flames was facinating even at 50 miles away. I watched at the shuttle began to head in a northward direction. It was around 6.5 minutes later that the sound waves rumbled through the still night air. It was more of a low rumble, but it was distinctly felt and heard. At aroun 7.5 mintues, between my screen porch, the trajectory and my poor vision I could no longer see the bright spec of light that was the shuttle that was now a couple hundred miles away. I stepped back inside watched NASA TV until about the 9.5 minute mark during the last separation, and knew our astronauts doing ok. I hung up the robe, climbed back into bed, turned off the TV and went back to sleep.

    What a beautiful way to wake up in the pre-dawn hours. And to think, /sniffle that was the last manned night launch we'll see for quite some time. Oh how I wish everyon could have seen this first hand.

    --
    Life takes interesting turns, but the most interest is when you're off the beaten path.
    1. Re:Last Night Launch by stoolpigeon · · Score: 2

      I had to leave the house with about 7 minutes to go. They've added some new houses to our neighborhood and I like to walk past them to get a better view. When the sky to the east lights up, I think that is my favorite part. Though I do enjoy when the boosters separate as well.

      --
      It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
  6. I saw it from New Jersey! by spaceman375 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I was watching on NasaTV and knew when to look. I didn't really expect much, if anything.
    It was Awesome! At least as bright as Jupiter, and it rocketed (heehee) right past an airplane that was on the same line of sight. I saw from about six minutes after launch to cutoff, apparently at twice the height of the houses around mine.
    Awesome - I saw a real spaceship launch. I DO believe!

    --
    On the one hand you take life too seriously, and on the other, you do not take playful existence seriously enough. Seth
  7. Decommission the shuttles in space? by jgtg32a · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I just had a random thought, would it be useful to just decommission shuttles in space, meaning just leave them up there, possibly integrate them into the ISS?

    1. Re:Decommission the shuttles in space? by proslack · · Score: 3, Funny

      Kind of like nailing a mobile home to your nice brick house...it'll give Cousin Eddie someplace *real nice* to stay while visiting.

      --


      Floating in the black seas of infinity without a paddle.
    2. Re:Decommission the shuttles in space? by Lumpy · · Score: 3, Funny

      Now the ISS will have shuttles up on blocks in the yard.... a mangy pitbull in a space suit tethered by the front porch..

      Rednecks in spaaaaace...... Nope the other countries wont put up with it.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    3. Re:Decommission the shuttles in space? by Graymalkin · · Score: 4, Informative

      Not in the slightest. There's two big hurdles using the Shuttles as long term space stations or hooking them up to the ISS. The first is the electrical power systems of the Shuttles. To provide power while in space the Shuttle uses hydrogen fuel cells where the ISS uses solar panels. While the fuel cells provide a lot of power to the Shuttle they do have a finite fuel supply. The life support system aboard the Shuttle is also a short duration design using chemical CO2 scrubbers. At best a Shuttle station would need to be refueled and resupplied every few weeks. Besides power and life support the Shuttle doesn't really carry its own scientific payload. If you were going to leave one in orbit you would need to send it up with a SpaceLab module or something to be able to do anything useful.

      Hooking a Shuttle up to the ISS for long periods would also not be very useful since without the weekly resupply of hydrogen and oxygen the Shuttle would be a power and life support vampire for the ISS. It would also affect the ISS' atmospheric drag such that it would require more reboosts than it already does. These could not be performed by the Shuttle because it carries a limited fuel for its OMS/RCS system which can't be refueled in orbit. A Shuttle plugged into the ISS for a long period of time would end up being a dead weight with no real scientific utility of its own.

      The Shuttles were designed for relatively short term missions and for resupply and refurbishment on the ground. Leaving them parked in orbit is a nice thought but ultimately impractical.

      --
      I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
  8. I actually saw the shuttle in the morning sky... by Mysticalfruit · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I was up taking care of my infant daughter, looking out my sliding glass windows I could see it like a blue diamond in the sky rising.

    Totally amazing.

    --
    Yes Francis, the world has gone crazy.
  9. Re:I'm a rocket scientist, but... by durrr · · Score: 3, Funny

    Many people talking at the same time can be confusing, they probably can talk at the same time but don't to keep the confusion to a minimum.
    There is of course a better solution: they should give up voice altogether and start using IRC.

  10. Wrong by dreamchaser · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The ISS uses thrust to adjust it's orbit already. It won't 'ruin' anything. The Zvezda module already has two main engines used for orbital adjustments.

    The station loses speed continuously due to atmospheric drag (yes there is still a tenuous atmosphere up there). Using thrusters is part of it's existence.

  11. Re:I'm a rocket scientist, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    Many people talking at the same time can be confusing, they probably can talk at the same time but don't to keep the confusion to a minimum.

    I've taken a tours of both Kennedy's Control Room and Houston's Mission Control. There are several voice loops that NASA uses and they can be individually enabled or disabled at a headset. There are only a couple of people of people listening to more than a few loops at any one time during launch. The majority of the staff is focused on the particular system or sub-system assigned to them, and therefore only listening to the applicable voice loop(s).

    There is of course a better solution: they should give up voice altogether and start using IRC.

    I almost literally cut my teeth on MSDOS 2.0 (Dad gave me his old Eagle 81 computer when I was 5), so I have no fear of scrolling text. However, I don't think that would be net gain for NASA to drop the voice loops in favor of IRC. Remember that most of the people working in the control rooms are monitoring more than one screen already. The switch to IRC would require split their visual focus to yet another batch of visual information. Also, most people can listen to someone talk while watching something simultaneously without much difficulty because audio and visual information are processed in different parts of the brain. Thus using an audio feed is complementary rather than competing sensory input.

  12. Read and learn Grasshopper. by DerekLyons · · Score: 4, Informative

    The ISS uses thrust to adjust it's orbit already. It won't 'ruin' anything. The Zvezda module already has two main engines used for orbital adjustments.

    Those thrusters operate for short periods of time at great intervals. Considerable effort is expended to set up the schedule such that usage of those thrusters, docking and undocking visiting ships, station attitude changes and other such events occur in clusters with lengthy intervals between them in order to provide the maximum time of 'uncontaminated' micro gee. (There's even a vibration isolation system on some experimental racks to minimize disturbance in between those events for experiments that require an even higher level of micro gee.)
     
    So yes, continuous usage of an ion thruster will ruin the micro gee environment, and yes this will be a great disruption to experiments onboard.

  13. Not quite correct, read and learn Grasshopper. by DerekLyons · · Score: 3, Informative

    Only nobody said anything about continuous thrust, just using thrust to move it to a higher orbit.

    The original poster specified an ion engine, which must operate continuously or nearly so in order to have any significant effect on the station's orbit.
     
    Now, you could use normal thrusters (preferably from an external source to conserve Zvezda's fuel) to raise the orbit, but you cannot raise it significantly without affecting the ability of other servicing craft (Soyuz, Progress, ATV, HTV, Dragon) to utilize their full design capacity. (The higher the orbit, the lower the delivery capacity.) You can't raise it high enough to significantly reduce atmospheric drag without getting into the region where those craft, at best, no longer have a useful cargo capacity or may not be able to reach it at all.

  14. NASA TV by MavEtJu · · Score: 2, Interesting

    As usual the NASA TV channel (well, the stream since that's all I can get from it here in Australia) provided me with the last three days and will provide me in the coming days with untouched unhyped `just the facts' 24x7 reality TV. Just the way I love it :-)

    --
    bash$ :(){ :|:&};: