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GIMP 2.8 Will Sport a Redesigned UI

ceswiedler writes "Ars Technica's Ryan Paul previews the upcoming release of the GIMP. It will include a single-window mode where the user can dock toolbar windows and switch between images via tabs. There are other improvements as well, including docking support in multi-window mode and improvements to the text tool." To get this early preview, Paul compiled version 2.7.1 from the active development branch, along with its dependencies.

17 of 401 comments (clear)

  1. Smartest workflow move ....ever! by MindPrison · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm glad they're doing this.

    It makes it much easier to work on the images, instead of having to "mishap-click" on every single window, and having to click on the related window in order to get back into the image editor again. WAAAAY overdue, but finally here - good job guys!

    --
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    1. Re:Smartest workflow move ....ever! by Lord+Lode · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, the makers of a painting program should not say "use window manager X or Y". The makers of a painting program should ensure that their program works in a reasonable way on the system the user has.

      User-friendlyness, you know?

    2. Re:Smartest workflow move ....ever! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In general, if you want user-friendlyness, open source software isn't the place to be looking

    3. Re:Smartest workflow move ....ever! by Scutter · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So now they're screwing up a totally fine UI and degenerate into the train wreck that's Photoshop. Nice.

      I agree! How dare they give you the option to have a single-window mode that's turned off by default! Jerks!

      --

      "Tell me doctor, with all of your defenses, are there any provisions for an attack by killer bees?"
    4. Re:Smartest workflow move ....ever! by WWWWolf · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, the makers of a painting program should not say "use window manager X or Y".

      They're not really saying "use window manager X or Y". They were saying "use any window manager you want as long as it supports feature X or Y" - a far more reasonable request.

      Having simple pieces that all take responsibility of their own area is the *nix way; if managing windows is hard, that's not the application's fault, it's the window manager's fault. Why fix one application when you can fix all of the applications at once?

      Now they're saying "since so many of you refuse to use a window manager that works, we're doing a workaround..." and then add, "but you could - you know - save time by using the current version with a window manager that's not broken. Just saying."

    5. Re:Smartest workflow move ....ever! by IntlHarvester · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Focus-follows-mouse made no sense back in the old days with Solaris work stations. It still makes no sense.

      It made sense for the stereotypical bearded Unix guy with nothing but 8 different XTerms open on his gigantic Sun monitor. None of his software used a mouse for input, so why not use it as an enhanced 2-dimensional task switcher?

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    6. Re:Smartest workflow move ....ever! by elrous0 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If you think Photoshop is "luddite" compared to GIMP, you are truly a deluded soul. According to the review, you couldn't even type text directly onto an image until this new build. Do you realize how basic a feature that is? That doesn't suggest a program that's way ahead of Photoshop to me--it suggests a program that's way behind.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    7. Re:Smartest workflow move ....ever! by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They were saying "use any window manager you want as long as it supports feature X or Y" - a far more reasonable request.

      What if feature X or Y drives the user fricking insane?

      The first time I used a Unix workstation 20 years ago, I was appalled by the focus-follows-mouse misfeature. It turns moving your mouse into navigating a minefield. Luckily, more sane desktop environments have been developed in the decades since.

      I will never, ever enable focus-follows mouse. Nor will the vast majority of the population. I would switch to Microsoft Windows rather than suffer such abuse from a window manager. So the request is *not* reasonable.

    8. Re:Smartest workflow move ....ever! by quickgold192 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      if managing windows is hard, that's not the application's fault, it's the window manager's fault.

      If everyone followed that logic, we would never have had tabbed browsing.

    9. Re:Smartest workflow move ....ever! by GooberToo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I was appalled by the focus-follows-mouse misfeature.

      Oddly, what you're calling a misfeature is what many would call click-to-focus. Click to focus needless requires extra clicking. Now do keep in mind there is a difference between raise on focus and focus follows mouse. I hate raise on focus but focus follows mouse is extremely superior to click-to-focus. Why? Because click-to-focus needlessly forces you to waste screen real estate when referencing one screen and inputting on another. This is even more so as you continue to add more and more references screens.

      Like many technology related issues, many times is a case of what's different is bad or ugly. You were likely taught to use a computer with click-to-focus and therefore anything which is not that is bad. But once you get used to it, the click-to-focus style of using interfaces, assuming the interface is designed to work with it (*cough* no windows *cough*), anything else sucks and sucks badly.

      So if you enjoy needlessly clicking for the sake of needlessly clicking, then by all means continue to use click-to-focus. But for those of us that enjoy fewer clicks and higher efficiency of interface, you'll not want to go back to the insanity which is click-to-focus.

      I guess if you're one of those users who maximizes every window and never multi-tasks, then there is nothing wrong with click-to-focus. But if not, you need to give it a try for a week or two and you'll be wondering what the heck you were thinking. Of course, this assumes you're not using Windows, which is specifically designed to break focus follows mouse behavior. There, its usable but IMO, a wash because of Windows' UI behaviors.

    10. Re:Smartest workflow move ....ever! by Chris+Burke · · Score: 3, Insightful

      None of his software used a mouse for input, so why not use it as an enhanced 2-dimensional task switcher?

      I don't understand. If you're using your mouse for input (as I very frequently do), doesn't it make sense that your mouse would be over the application that you're interacting with, which at least suggests it should have focus? If you're using the mouse for input, that implies clicking, which would give that app focus in click-to-focus anyway.

      I'm not saying there's something wrong with your preference, I just don't seem to get the usage model that inspires the preference. The more graphical apps I'm using, the more I appreciate focus-follows-mouse.

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    11. Re:Smartest workflow move ....ever! by theheadlessrabbit · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Take a look at Gimp 2.2; it's - I believe - the last version with the "old" UI, which was very intuitive and convenient to use. They only screwed it up in the newer versions due to reasons completely unknown to me.

      I have found the complete opposite. the old gimp UI was impossible to navigate. It's like blender, where everything about the UI is just wrong, anyone with even the slightest bit of experience on similar software simplt cannot use it.
      3 horizontal windows? whats going on? I've been using various graphic programs for 15 years now, never needing a manual for any of them, until running into gimp, the 1st program I souldn't solve intuitively, through trial and error.

      The new interface has the toolbar that is common to every other graphics program in existence, so it doesn't require a series of tutorials just to know where to get started. The newer gimp UI is a significant improvement. I was able to go straight from photoshop to gimp without needed a help file (which is a good thing, since Ubuntu doesn't seem to include the gimp help files) The only major problems left with gimps AI are dealing with layers; pasting is especially cumbersome.

      --
      -I only code in BASIC.-
  2. Re:I really hate the GIMP UI changes. by Ivan+Stepaniuk · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The fact that you use focus-follows-mouse notes that you have a very special taste regarding GUI. Photoshop changed too, more or less in the same direction (less little windows floating all over)

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  3. Re:Finally by ledow · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Yeah, this is always the problem that big software projects have... I don't claim that users are perfect and "know" what they want, but it has to be said: if you are making a USER interface, it's probably best if the USER gets some say in that and that you listen to the USERS especially when a large of them speak up. Other parts, sure, you can say "We don't work that way" but the user interface is sacred and your *only* interaction with the program as a user. Mess that up, you might as well not have the program at all.

    And I'm sorry, but I'm a single-window person. I've work in IT for years and the *easiest* way to work is on a commandline or in a full-screen window (alt-tab's, multiple desktops etc. vital, of course). Rarely do I need two things side by side on the screen but when I do, it's usually TWO and that's it, and that's easily handled by tiling the windows. Bear in mind that I have 18 windows open on my machine at the moment, everything from instant messengers, shell sessions, folder views, web browsers, development environments etc. The only "non-full-screen" ones are two shell windows where I'm referring to one file in another and need to check consistency between the two, and the instant messengers (because they don't need full-screen, are minimised, and are only on the taskbar so that they flash when I get a message). MDI is an invaluable tool - I can't web-browse without my Opera tabs - and ignoring it because of some "religious" argument is stupid. I've seen even the cheapest paint programs offer a "Do you want an MDI or SDI interface?" dialog on first run... Serif software springs to mind.

    The only other program I ever really used a lot that didn't do single-window nicely was some of the old versions of Visual Basic. But there they had a reason - you were designing a UI within an UI, so it's not an easy task to do.

    At last, though, GIMP has woken up to the protests of almost *every* non-professional-user that's ever wanted to use it. When the new version is released, it will be downloaded and tried, if for no other reason than to add another number to the download stats for the single-window-capable versions.

  4. Who cares about UI, but 16 bit per color... by tapanitarvainen · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Me, I don't care much about the UI - I'll get used to whatever way it goes. The significant change, to me, is left at the very end of the article: GEGL and proper high-bit-depth color support it brings.

  5. Forget the UI, change the name by Culture20 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yes, this is *that* post. Just trying to keep it fresh in your mind. I use the GNU Image Manipulation Program all the time, and internally, I call it GIMP, and amongst friends in the know, I call it GIMP, but amongst people who are new to FOSS, I usually make an effort to use the full name. Every once in a while, I forget, and most people associate GIMP or "The GIMP" with Pulp Fiction these days, or worse, they've never seen Pulp Fiction because they would be offended by it, but they still know "The GIMP" through cultural allusions to that character, and thus are offended by any reference to GIMP.

    Hell, I'd even take GIMPY (the GNU Image Manipulation Program for You), since that evokes a different, albeit still negative, emotional response.

    The best suggestion I've heard is just drop GNU or make GNU separate from the acronym: IMP, GNU IMP.

  6. Re:Much more important features missing by Animaether · · Score: 3, Insightful

    GIMP is always compared to photoshop. There are some key features missing in GIMP

    Agreed

    adjustment layers (which GEGL is suppose to eventually bring about, but it's been a long wait)

    Adjustment layers are a messed up paradigm from being stuck in a 1D compositing 'stack'. A node-based compositing workflow, however...

    proper 16 and 32 bit image editing

    cinepaint seems to have gone nowhere particular fast simply because not enough people (read: businesses) were/are interested in this. It's sad, but there you go.

    and LAB and CYMK modes.

    Seems pretty far off the priority list for most "serious artists".. unless the only serious artists are those who print their work and have it exhibited. Let's face it - most Photoshop users, and I admit I'm including all the warez kiddies and the family members they installed Photoshop for - will only ever used Photoshop to make images suitable for display on monitors; LCD ones at that.. they won't be bothering with even calibrating their display and making sure Photoshop uses that color profile information. By the time they do want a print - they'll either send it off to one of the many online printing services who have excellent staff who deal with RGB->CMYK(and then some) conversion if their machines flag out-of-gamut results, or they'll just send it to their own inkjet/color laser printer and not really care if the colors are a bit off.

    I'm greatful for GIMP and thankful for the developer's efforts but I'd rather they focus on these things than dicking around with windowing. The truth is once you get use to it, GIMP's windowing isn't THAT bad.

    You shouldn't have to 'get used to it' - although I agree that there's other areas that need love more than how one manages their windows; although 'losing' your layer window under some other non-GIMP-related because it's separate from everything else, or being fooled once again and trying to do a color adjustment in image A but ending up doing it in image B because you forgot that each window has its own little menu for doing these things.. can get quite annoying.

    Now.. a unified transform tool and a macro recorder (not every artist wants to dive straight into script-fu.. which in itself isn't exactly the most human-readable of languages) - that's what I've been making donations for; although perhaps I should hire a programmer instead and pray to the OSS gods that they'll actually include the code, as I haven't seen any headway made into these areas.. just years and years of discussions.
    At least there's a bit of a push for GEGL so maybe it won't be so swaptastic to work on large images anymore.