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Call For Scientific Research Code To Be Released

Pentagram writes "Professor Ince, writing in the Guardian, has issued a call for scientists to make the code they use in the course of their research publicly available. He focuses specifically on the topical controversies in climate science, and concludes with the view that researchers who are able but unwilling to release programs they use should not be regarded as scientists. Quoting: 'There is enough evidence for us to regard a lot of scientific software with worry. For example Professor Les Hatton, an international expert in software testing resident in the Universities of Kent and Kingston, carried out an extensive analysis of several million lines of scientific code. He showed that the software had an unacceptably high level of detectable inconsistencies. For example, interface inconsistencies between software modules which pass data from one part of a program to another occurred at the rate of one in every seven interfaces on average in the programming language Fortran, and one in every 37 interfaces in the language C. This is hugely worrying when you realise that just one error — just one — will usually invalidate a computer program. What he also discovered, even more worryingly, is that the accuracy of results declined from six significant figures to one significant figure during the running of programs.'"

47 of 505 comments (clear)

  1. Seems reasonable by NathanE · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Particularly if the research is publicly funded.

    1. Re:Seems reasonable by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The "The public deserves access to the research it pays for" position seems so self-evidently reasonable that further debate is simply unnecessary(though, unfortunately, the journal publishers have a strong financial interest in arguing the contrary, so the "debate" actually continues, against all reason). Similarly, the idea that software falls somewhere in the "methods" section and is as deserving of peer review as any other part of the research seems wholly reasonable. Again, I suspect that getting at the bits written by scientists, with the possible exception of the ones working in fields(oil geology, drug development, etc.) that also have lucrative commercial applications, will mainly be a matter of developing norms and mechanisms around releasing it. Academic scientists are judged, promoted, and respected largely according to how much(and where) they publish. Getting them to publish more probably won't be the world's hardest problem. The more awkward bit will be the fact that large amounts of modern scientific instrumentation, and some analysis packages, include giant chunks of closed source software; but are also worth serious cash. You can absolutely forget getting a BSD/GPL release, and even a "No commercial use, all rights reserved, for review only, mine, not yours." code release will be like pulling teeth.

      On the other hand, I suspect some of this hand-wringing of being little more than special pleading. "This is hugely worrying when you realise that just one error — just one — will usually invalidate a computer program." Right. I know that I definitely live in the world where all my important stuff: financial transactions, recordkeeping, product design, and so forth are carried out by zero-defect programs, delivered to me over the internet by routers with zero-defect firmware, and rendered by a variety of endpoint devices running zero-defect software on zero-defect OSes. Yup, that's exactly how it works. Outside of hyper-expensive embedded stuff, military avionics, landing gear firmware, and FDA approved embedded medical widgets(that still manage to Therac people from time to time), zero-defect is pure fantasy. A very pleasant pure fantasy, to be sure; but still fantasy. The revelation that several million lines of code, in a mixture of Fotran and C, most likely written under time and budget constraints, isn't exactly a paragon of code quality seems utterly unsurprising, and utterly unrestricted to scientific areas. Code quality is definitely important, and science has to deal with the fact that software errors have the potential to make a hash of their data; but science seems to attract a whole lot more hand-wringing when its conclusions are undesirable...

    2. Re:Seems reasonable by apoc.famine · · Score: 5, Insightful

      As someone doing a PhD in a climate related area, I can see both sides of the issue. The code I work with is freely and openly available. However, 99.9% or more of the people in the world wouldn't be able to do a damn thing with it. I look at my classmates - we're all in the same degree program, yet probably only 5% of them would really be able to understand and do anything meaningful with the code I'm using.
       
      Why? We're that specialized. Here, I'm talking 5% of people studying atmospheric and oceanic sciences being able to make use of my code without taking several years to get up to speed. What's the incentive to release it? Why bother with the effort, when the audience is soooo small?
       
      Release the code, and if some dumbass decides to dig into it, you either are in the position of having to waste time answering ignorant questions, or you ignore them, giving them ammo for "teh code is BOGUS!!!!" Far easier to just keep the code in-house, and hand it out to the few qualified researchers who might be interested. Unsurprisingly, a lot of scientific code is handled this way.
       
      However, I do very much believe in completely transparent discourse. My research group has two major comparison studies of different climate models. We pulled in data from seven models from seven different universities, and analyzed the differences in CO2 predictions, among other things. The data was freely and openly given to us by these other research groups, and they happily contributed information about the inner workings of their models. This, in my book, is what it's all about. The relevant information was shared with people in a position to understand it and analyze it.
       
      It'd be a whole different story if the public wasn't filled with a bunch of ignorant whack-jobs, trying to smear scientists. When we're trying to do science, we'd rather do science than defend ourselves against hacks with a public soapbox. If you want access to the data and the code, go to a school and study the stuff. All the doors are open then. The price of admission is just having some vague idea wtf you're talking about.

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
    3. Re:Seems reasonable by Sir_Sri · · Score: 5, Informative

      And it's not like the people writing this code are, or were trained in computer science, assuming computer science even existed when they were doing the work.

      Having done an undergrad in theoretical physics, but being in a PhD in comp sci now I will say this: The assumption in physics when I graduated in 2002 was that by second year you knew how to write code, whether they've taught you or not. Even more recently it has still been an assumption that you'll know how to write code, but they try and give you a bare minimum of training. And of course it's usually other physical scientists who do the teaching, not computer scientists, so bad information (or out of date information or the like) is propagated along. That completely misses the advanced topics in computer science which cover a lot more of the software engineering sort of problems. Try explaining to a physicist how a 32 or 64 bit float can't exactly replicate all of the numbers they think it can and watch half of them have their eyes gloss over for half an hour. And then the problem is what do you do about it?

      Then you get into a lab (uni lab). Half the software used will have been written in F77 when it was still pretty new, and someone may have hacked some modifications in here and there over the years. Some of these programs last for years, span multiple careers and so on. They aren't small investments but have had grubby little grad student paws on them for a long time, in addition to incompetent professor hands.

      None of scientific computing is done particularly well, they expect people with no training in software development to do the work, assuming it was done when software development existed, and there isn't the funding to pay people who might do it properly.

      On top of all that it's not like you want to release your code to the public right away anyway. As a scientist you're in competition with groups around the world to publish first. You describe in your paper the science you think you implemented, someone else who wants to verify your results gets to write a new chunk of code which they think is the same science and you compare. Giving out a scientists code for inspection means someone else will have a working software platform to publish papers based on your work, and that's not so good for you. For all the talk of research for the public good, ultimately your own good, of continuing to publish (to get paid) trumps a public need. That's a systematic problem, and when you're competing with a research group in brazil, and you're in canada their rules are different than yours, and so you keep things close to the chest.

    4. Re:Seems reasonable by Troed · · Score: 3, Informative

      Your comment clearly shows you know nothing about software. I'm able to audit your source code without having a slightest clue as to what domain it's meant to be run in.

    5. Re:Seems reasonable by TheTurtlesMoves · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Your not the F***** pope. You don't get to tell people they are not worthy enough to look at your/code data. You don't like it, don't do science. But this attitude of only cooperating with a "vetoed" group of people is causing far more problems than you think you are solving by doing it. You are not as smart as you think you are.

      Want to make a claim/suggestion that has very real economic and political ramifications for everyone, you provide the data/models for everyone. Otherwise, have a nice hot cup of shut the frak up.

      --
      The Grey Goo disaster happened 3 billion years ago. This rock is covered in self replicating machines!
    6. Re:Seems reasonable by apoc.famine · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Of all the stuff that's important in scientific computing, the code is probably one of the more minor parts. The science behind the code is drastically more important. If the code is solid and the science is crap, it's useless. Likewise, the source data that's used to initialize a model is far more important than the code. If that's bogus, the entire thing is bogus.
       
      Sure, you could audit it, and find shit that's not done properly. At the same time, you wouldn't have a damn clue what it's supposed to be doing. Suppose I'm adding a floating point to an integer. Is that a problem? Does it ruin everything? Or is it just sloppy coding that doesn't make a difference in the long run? Understanding what the code is doing is required for you to do an audit which will produce any useful results.
       
      Unless you're working under the fallacy that all code must be perfect and bug free. Nobody gives a shit if you audit software and produce a list of bugs. What's important is that you be able to quantify how important those bugs are. And you can't do that without knowing what the software is supposed to be doing. When it's something a complicated as fluid dynamics or biological systems, a code audit by a CS person is pretty much worthless.

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
    7. Re:Seems reasonable by Troed · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You argument is void. A bug is a bug. Either it affects the outcome of the program run or it doesn't - and I still don't need to know anything about what it's supposed to do to verify that. You just need to re-run the program with a specified set of inputs and check the output - also known as verified against its own test suite.

      (Yes, I'm a Software Engineer by education)

    8. Re:Seems reasonable by MikeBabcock · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Both are issues. If your code is buggy, the output may also be buggy. If the code is bug-free but the algorithms buggy, the output will also be buggy.

      The whole purpose of publishing in the scientific method is repeatability. If the software itself is just re-used without someone looking at how it works or even better, writing their own for the same purpose, you're invalidating a whole portion of the method itself.

      As a vastly simplified example, I could posit that 1 + 2 = 4. I could say I ran my numbers through a program as such:

      print f(1, 2);
      f (a, b):
      print $b + $b;

      If you re-ran my numbers yourself through MY software without validating it, you'd see that I'm right. Validating what the software does and HOW it does it is very much an important part of science, and unfortunately overlooked. While in this example anyone might pick out the error, in a complex system its quite likely most people would miss one.

      To the original argument, just because very few people would understand the software doesn't mean it doesn't need validating. Lots of peer review papers are truly understood by a very small segment of the scientific population, but they still deserve that review.

      --
      - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
    9. Re:Seems reasonable by bmajik · · Score: 5, Insightful

      However, 99.9% or more of the people in the world wouldn't be able to do a damn thing with it. I look at my classmates - we're all in the same degree program, yet probably only 5% of them would really be able to understand and do anything meaningful with the code I'm using.

      I think the world is very lucky that Linus Torvalds wasn't as narrow-sighted and conceited as you are.

      Why? We're that specialized. Here, I'm talking 5% of people studying atmospheric and oceanic sciences being able to make use of my code without taking several years to get up to speed. What's the incentive to release it? Why bother with the effort, when the audience is soooo small?

      Release the code, and if some dumbass decides to dig into it, you either are in the position of having to waste time answering ignorant questions, or you ignore them, giving them ammo for "teh code is BOGUS!!!!" Far easier to just keep the code in-house, and hand it out to the few qualified researchers who might be interested. Unsurprisingly, a lot of scientific code is handled this way.

      However, I do very much believe in completely transparent discourse. My research group has two major comparison studies of different climate models. We pulled in data from seven models from seven different universities, and analyzed the differences in CO2 predictions, among other things. The data was freely and openly given to us by these other research groups, and they happily contributed information about the inner workings of their models. This, in my book, is what it's all about. The relevant information was shared with people in a position to understand it and analyze it.

      It'd be a whole different story if the public wasn't filled with a bunch of ignorant whack-jobs, trying to smear scientists. When we're trying to do science, we'd rather do science than defend ourselves against hacks with a public soapbox. If you want access to the data and the code, go to a school and study the stuff. All the doors are open then. The price of admission is just having some vague idea wtf you're talking about.

      Have you heard of "ivory tower"? You're it.

      Your position basically boils down to this: "unless you read all the same things I read, talked to all the same people I talked to, went to all the same schools I did... you're not qualified to talk to me".

      That is _the_ definition of monocultural isolationism.. i.e. the Ivory Tower of Academia problem.

      Here's the problem: if your requirement is that anyone you consider a "peer" must have had all of the same inputs and conditionings that you had... what basis do you have for allowing them to come out of the other side of that machine with a non-tainted point of view?

      As a specific counterpoint to your way of thinking:

      My dad is an actuary.. one of the best in the world. He regularly meets with the top handful of insurance regulators in foreign governments. He manages the risk of _billions_ of dollars. The maths involved in actuarial science embarass nearly any other branch of applied mathematics. I have an undergraduate math degree and I could only understand his problem domain in the crudest, rough-bounding box sort of fashion. Furthermore, he's been a programmer since the System/360 days.

      Yet his code, while there is a lot of it, is something I am definitely able to help him with. We talk about software engineering and specific technical problems he is having on a frequent basis.

      You don't need to be a problem domain expert in order to demonstrate value when auditing software.

      Furthermore, as a professional software tester, I happen to find that occasionally, not over-familiarizing myself with the design docs and implementation details too early allow me to ask better "reset" questions when doing design and code reviews. "Why are you doing this?" And as the developer talks me through it, they understand how shaky their assumptions are. If I had been "travelling" with them in lock step

      --
      My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
    10. Re:Seems reasonable by khellendros1984 · · Score: 3, Informative

      It may not be possible to actually "discuss" the topic, but it's certainly possible to find bugs that may or may not influence the output of the program. And given the original input data, it's possible to remove the bugs, run the corrected program against the original input data, and see if the output is different. It would take someone with knowledge in the target topic to analyze the output data and decide if any difference is significant, but the actual check for bugs could certainly be done by anyone that "speaks" the language the program was written in.

      Even with something like a Global Warming argument, a person with a strong grasp of both English and logic might not be able to verify claims in an argument, but they can certainly analyze the argument for certain logical fallacies. Perhaps the fallacious section of the argument doesn't invalidate the argument as a whole. You can't trust this generic English-speaker to accurately make that determination, but they're certainly able to identify and remove a strawman, an ad hominem, etc.

      --
      It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
    11. Re:Seems reasonable by bmajik · · Score: 5, Insightful

      there are well funded lobby groups and others with too much time on their hand looking for ANYTHING that is wrong.

      Errors are only errors if they are reported by the "right" people?

      Do you want to know how many questions Linus Torvalds has answered for me? Zero.

      I actually _have_ gotten personal responses from Theo DeRaadt on some OpenBSD issues but they all have the general form of "you're not interesting, don't waste my time".

      Nevertheless, I rely on OpenBSD. The fact that Theo has neither the time nor the interest in having a deep meaningful conversation with me about his code neither changes the quality of his code nor prevents him from releasing every 6 months, on schedule.

      I don't think that there is an expectation that scientists stop doing their day jobs to do software support for people. I think there is an expectation that publicly funded research used to set public policy be easily available to all comers.

      I'm a bit frustrated by the apparent contradiction. For the first time perhaps in history in the USA, you have armchair folks trying to do technical audits of scientific tools, research, and publications -- for free.

      I thought the "normal" problem in America is that the population is too apathetic to care and too stupid to provide any critical analysis. And yet we see this happening more and more frequently and the climate-science establishment is circling the wagons instead of celebrating the fact that there are a handful of people that for once give a damn about interesting research tools and methods.

      I must concede that there are some downsides to discussing your opinions and findings with others: When people disagree with you, it ends up taking some of your time.

      --
      My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
    12. Re:Seems reasonable by bdwlangm · · Score: 3, Insightful

      just wait until some amateur gets a hold of the code, runs it, and claims that all global warming data is questionable because this model has a bug or produces weird output

      The onus is on the researcher to demonstrate/argue that for the inputs given the code produces meaningful results. If you don't like that then stop doing research with computations? Idiots can always misrepresent you, no matter how you publish. Most of us understand that simulations are limited.

      Second, it will waste the researchers time releasing the code and then responding to questions when people are like "lolz this code blows"

      What makes you think that there will be more people trying out that code and not understanding it, than currently there are people reading the paper and not understanding it? Personally I'm not going to waste my spare time downloading complex simulations that I know nothing about and try to invalidate them.

      That being said, it should definitely be available as a part of the peer review process if something is really called into question.

      So make it available and reference it in your paper. No one's asking you to tell everyone on the planet about it.

    13. Re:Seems reasonable by Pentagram · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Maybe its a bug that only pops up on certain inputs. Maybe the researcher knows this and avoids those inputs (or wrote the program without intending to go anywhere near the input range where the code fails). This sees fine to me...researcher needs a one-off set of statistics and writes some quick and dirty code that does it even if it isn't robust or even efficient.

      Sorry, but I wouldn't trust any code that fails on certain inputs!

      I can accept code that isn't efficient, that's just not necessary. I can accept bugs in peripheral code (such as an added-on GUI) but the code that actually does the science really should be as good as the scientist can write. If it has known bugs they should be fixed before any research is published that is based on the code.

      I speak as someone who has written code for scientific research.

      Releasing this code is probably bad for two reasons. If the researcher is not aware of bugs outside of the exact inputs they used, they probably aren't going to disclose them--just wait until some amateur gets a hold of the code, runs it, and claims that all global warming data is questionable because this model has a bug or produces weird output.

      Good. That means researchers will be more careful about the code they are writing, and we can all have more confidence in the science.

      I don't expect researchers to write great code for everything...it may be repetitive or inefficient but they can usually tell from the result (and comparing it to other models) whether or not something went wrong.

      Comparing it to other models? What if they are wrong too? Perhaps that's how they verified their results. Trying to tell if the program is correct from the results is even worse. You end up fixing bugs until the code produces the result you want.

      I know that I write code at work (IANAClimate Researcher) that is quite sloppy or wasteful because I just want to see what the result looks like (and will never run the program again)

      That's exploratory programming, and is quite fair enough (in fact I think people should do it more), but you shouldn't use such code to do anything important. Throw it away and start again.

    14. Re:Seems reasonable by philipgar · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Actually, I'm pretty sure everyone is fairly close with the current data they're generating to prevent other groups from beating you out the door with your idea. The exceptions to this rule are when professors trust one another, and know that the other wouldn't use the information you're supplying them with to do the same research you are already working on.

      As a graduate student, you definitely don't want to share code you've developed immediately. You may spend 2 or 3 years of a PhD writing code, and get a couple papers out of it, but with the code base in place you plan on getting a handful more. More to the point, these papers become relatively easy to generate, because you spent those years developing the program that allows you to do it. Writing papers, and generating results, analyzing them etc takes time, so you can't do everything at once. Releasing your code too early means other groups can do these other experiments, and you, the grad student who spent so many years setting up the code or experiment for them, still wouldn't be able to graduate, because you have not produced enough original research, and instead only developed the tools others used to pump out results.

      As a student nears graduation, they might be more willing to release their code, as then competition is less of a concern. Someone won't pick up your code and be releasing a paper based on it in 2 or 3 months, it just takes too long to get up to speed. However, the BIGGEST impediment to releasing software in academia is the support that you have to give to your software if anyone is going to use it. You first need to audit and clean up your code, a non-trivial task. You have to supply documentation on how to use the software, another non trivial task, and then provide documentation on the basics of how it works etc. All of this stuff takes a lot of time, and doesn't tend to help a student graduate. Also, once code is released, there's an expectation that you'll be providing some level of help with questions. Granted that normally rarely happens (as the author has gone on to do other things, and hasn't touched the code in years). It just becomes a difficult thing to do.

      Phil

    15. Re:Seems reasonable by pod · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Exactly, although I echo the sentiment the presentation could have been better.

      Everywhere we turn there are people who think they are smart telling us what to do and what to think, because they know what is best for us. They're the experts with years of training, and we know nothing. Do not question the high priests, do not pay attention to the man behind the curtain.

      This is just following the general trend of late, culminating in "this time, it's different, trust us". We think we're smarter, we're better, we have more tools, we have more knowledge, we have more insight, and that things are somehow fundamentally different, and that today we can fix all the problems that our predecessors have been unable to fix in centuries past. In the end, the more we "fix", the more we break.

      As a lay person, I know we cannot predict what the weather will be like next week, and all I see around me is global climate hysteria. I don't see science, I don't see deliberation, I don't see openness, I don't see debate. I see politics and dogma. Enough of this "you're not smart enough to understand so just trust me" nonsense. Enough of this "science by consensus". It doesn't exist, and it's not scientific anyways even if it did.

      Show everyone the science, open up the process, accept opposing data (heck, accept ALL legitimate data to begin with), interpretations and views, so we can all see why it is that we need to undertake a complete reorganization of economy, society and personal life, at a cost of trillions of dollars and undoubtedly much resulting misery and suffering.

      It was global cooling and visions of frozen wastelands and a new ice age. Where did that go? Then it was the ozone hole that would fry anyone not wearing SPF1000 sunblock. Where did that go? Then it was global warming and sea level rise that would make disaster movies seem like documentaries. Where did that go? Now we have the amorphous all-encompassing "climate change".

      But THIS TIME, it's different. Really. This time, we're smarter, and we have better science, and we've learned, and we know better, we know for sure. Trust us.

      Well, sorry. You're gonna have to do better than that.

      --
      "Hot lesbian witches! It's fucking genius!"
    16. Re:Seems reasonable by wealthychef · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Just release your god damned code and don't worry about it. What are you afraid of? The sky will not fall. Your reputation will not crumble. Of course it's not perfect, duh. The point of releasing it is not to have people check for perfection, it's to see if there is a bug that could explain your surprising results. It's part of defending your results. Deal with it. I don't trust you.

      --
      Currently hooked on AMP
    17. Re:Seems reasonable by ChrisMaple · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Something like a climate model has a very exclusive audience

      The final audience of a climate model is (economically) every person alive. If the models are as good as some climatologists claim, the final audience is every living thing on earth.

      Making their code public doesn't mean they have to answer their phone. But they're going to have to answer to someone if it can be shown that their code deliberately produced false results, as was the case with the "hockey stick" scandal.

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
  2. great! by StripedCow · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Great!

    I'm getting somewhat tired from reading articles, where there is little or no information regarding program accuracy, total running time, memory used, etc.
    And in some cases, i'm actually questioning whether the proposed algorithms actually work in practical situations...

    --
    If Pandora's box is destined to be opened, *I* want to be the one to open it.
  3. More to the point, people increasingly don't by aussersterne · · Score: 4, Insightful

    seem to understand the very idea of scientific methods or processes, or the reasoning behind empiricism and careful management of precision.

    It's a failure of education, no so much in science education, I think, as in philosophy. Formal and informal logic, epistemology and ontology, etc. People appear increasingly unable to understand why any of this matters and they essentialize the "answer" as always "true" for any given process that can be described, so science becomes an act of creativity by which one tries to create a cohesive narrative of process that arrives at the desired result. If it has no intrinsic breaks or obvious discontinuities, it must be true.

    If another study that contradicts it also suffers from no breaks or discontinuities, they're both true! After all, everyone gets to decide what's true in their own heart!

    --
    STOP . AMERICA . NOW
    1. Re:More to the point, people increasingly don't by bsDaemon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think a lot of it has to do not just with failures in education, but also due to the way science (in particular, but everything in general) is reported in the media. One week a study saying coffee will kill you gets reported, then a couple of days later a story saying another study says coffee will make you immortal is reported on, both with equal voracity, neither with expert commentary or perspective. C+ students who look good on camera banter back and forth about it, laughing jocularly and ultimately creating a situation in which, by their own dismissal and misunderstanding, perpetuate that to their viewers.

      Its come to the point where many, many people just dismiss the whole business of science. "They can't even make up their minds!" they say, as if the point of science is to make up ones' mind. Of course, this is where the failure of education to actually educate comes into play. Classical liberalism has been turned over, spanked and made into the servant of corporate mercantilism and we're all just now supposed to sit down and shut up. Science, is in its essence, a libertarian (note small 'l') pursuit through which one questions all authority, up to and including the fabric of existence itself -- all assumptions are out the window and any that cannot pass muster is done away with.

      But, just like socio-political anarchism (libertarian socialism), the spirit of rebellion and anti-authoritarianism inherent in science has been packaged and sold in a watered down and safe-for-children package at the local shopping mall only to be taken out of the box when the powers that be feel that they can use it for their own purposes. Not to be a downer or anything, its just I really do think this is bigger than just science. It's to do with people willingly leading themselves as sheep to the slaughter on behalf of the farmer to make the dog's job easier.

  4. Stuff like Sweave by langelgjm · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Much quantitative academic and scientific work could benefit from the use of tools like Sweave, which allows you to embed the code used to produce statistical analyses within your LaTeX document. This makes your research easier to reproduce, both for yourself (when you've forgotten what you've done six months from now) and others.

    What other kinds of tools like this are /.ers familiar with?

    --
    "Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
  5. It should be released and under a free licence! by bramp · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I've always been a big fan of releasing my academic work under a BSD licence. My work is funded by the taxpayers, so I think the taxpayers should be able to do what they like with my software. So I fully agree that all software should be released. It is not always enough to just publish a paper, but you should release your code so others can fully review the accuracy of your work.

  6. About time! by sackvillian · · Score: 5, Informative

    The scientific community needs to get as far as we can from the policies of companies like Gaussian Inc., who will ban you and your institution for simply publishing any sort of comparative statistics on calculation time, accuracy, etc. from their computational chemistry software.

    I can't imagine what they'd do to you if you started sorting through their code...

    --
    Hey mate, spare a sig?
  7. Engineering Course Grade = F by BoRegardless · · Score: 4, Interesting

    One significant figure?

  8. MaDnEsS ! by Airdorn · · Score: 4, Funny

    What? Scientists showing their work for peer-review? It's MADNESS I tell you. MADNESS !

  9. This is not science. by Coolhand2120 · · Score: 4, Insightful
    1. Re:This is not science. by Idiot+with+a+gun · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Irrelevant. If you can't take some trolls, maybe you shouldn't be in such a controversial topic. The accuracy of your data is far more significant than your petty emotions, especially if your data will be affecting trillions of dollars worldwide.

    2. Re:This is not science. by crmarvin42 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      1) Do you seriously think that the whole climate science depends on one scientist's data?

      No, but his work does include suggestions that regulators pay close attention to based on his status within the community. If he were posting on this very same topic, but was not being used as a primary source by regulators then I could see your point. However, that is not the case and theoretical situations are not really relevant.

      2) CRU was trolled by FOIA requests. They are nuisance to deal with, as far as I was told.

      Then hire someone to handle them for you, or have grad students do it.

      I could say the same thing about publishing and peer review. It's a major PITA to get formatting done just right, making sure that those outside of my small sphere of research can understand what I did without getting lost in all of the jargon. Suck it up! It is an unfortunate, but necessary part of doing research at a public institution.

      3) Scientists are people, people have emotions. That's why peer review is used.

      Not sure what this has to do with anything. Peer review is valuable and necessary, but it has never pretended to be about accuracy of the data. It's about cleaning up the presentation so that it is clear, reproducible, and free from OBVIOUS error.

      As a reviewer, I don't know what exactly was done, but if a list of numbers that should add up to 100 instead adds up to 120, then I can catch that. Whether the problem is due to a typo, or sloppy data fabrication, or a computer error is not something I can ascertain. I have to trust that the authors explanation and fix are true and accurate, in which case I am trusting that they are honest, competent and attentive. The more of their data and methodology that they expose to scrutiny, the less faith I have to have and the more I can ascertain for myself directly.

      --
      Bureaucracy expands to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy.-Oscar Wilde
    3. Re:This is not science. by acoustix · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "Why should I make the data available to you, when your aim is to find something wrong with it?"

      That used to be what Science was. Of course, that was when truth was the goal.

      --
      "A plan fiendishly clever in its intricacies"- Homer Simpson
    4. Re:This is not science. by ae1294 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      1) Do you seriously think that the whole climate science depends on one scientist's data?

      Irrelevant, if you use public money to do your research your boss gets all that work.

      2) CRU was trolled by FOIA requests. They are nuisance to deal with, as far as I was told.

      Irrelevant, FOIA requests are part of the deal when you take public money. Don't like it? Don't take public money. The whole idea that FOIA requests can be labeled troll sounds like a very bad idea. I for one don't want to start hearing the government claim that the EFF are trolls and thus are ignoring their FOIA requests.

      3) Scientists are people, people have emotions. That's why peer review is used.

      Irrelevant, ???

  10. Re:Conspiracy? by obarthelemy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yes and no. Which assertion do you think more probable:

    1- "These are not the desired results. Check your code".

    2- "These are the desired results. Check your code".

    No conspiracy, but a conspiracy-like end result.

    --
    The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
  11. I concur by dargaud · · Score: 4, Interesting
    As a software engineer who has spent 20 years coding in research labs, I can say with certainty that the code written by many, if not most, scientists is utter garbage. As an example, a colleague of mine was approached recently to debug a piece of code: "Oh, it's going to be easy, it was written by one of our postdocs on his last day here...". 600 lines of code in the main, no functions, no comments. He's been at it for 2 months.

    I'm perfectly OK with the fact that their job is science and not coding, but would they go to the satellite assembly guys and start gluing parts at random ?

    --
    Non-Linux Penguins ?
    1. Re:I concur by Rising+Ape · · Score: 3, Insightful

      >So, while it is perfectly understandable that, say, physicists can't spend 5 years learning CS, at the very least they should be made aware that it requires trained people to write sane code and that they must hand the job to specialists, and spend their valuable time doing what the're skilled at.

      And where will they get these specialists, and who will pay for them?

      Add the overhead of explaining exactly what the code is supposed to do, and the fact that the specialist won't know the physics purpose of it all, and I wouldn't be suprised if there were more errors this way, not fewer. Most science code is fairly short, so all the fuss about "structured programming" (or is it OOP these days?) isn't as important.

  12. Observations... by kakapo · · Score: 4, Informative

    As it happens, my students and I are about to release a fairly specialized code - we discussed license terms, and eventually settled on the BSD (and explicitly avoided the GPL), which requires "citation" but otherwise leaves anyone free to use it.

    That said, writing a scientific code can involve a good deal of work, but the "payoff" usually comes in the form of results and conclusions, rather than the code itself. In those circumstances, there is a sound argument for delaying any code release until you have published the results you hoped to obtain when you initiated the project, even if these form a sequence of papers (rather than insisting on code release with the first published results)

    Thirdly, in many cases scientists will share code with colleagues when asked politely, even if they are not in the public domain.

    Fourthly, I fairly regularly spot minor errors in numerical calculations performed by other groups (either because I do have access to the source, or because I can't reproduce their results) -- in almost all cases these do not have an impact on their conclusions, so while the "error count" can be fairly high, the number of "wrong" results coming from bad code is overestimated by this accounting.

  13. Not a good idea by petes_PoV · · Score: 5, Insightful
    The point about reproducible experiments is not to provide your peers with the exact same equipment you used - then they'd get (probably / hopefully) the exact same results. The idea is to provide them with enough information so that they can design their own experiements to [b]measure the same things[/b] and then to analyze their results to confirm or disprove your conclusions.

    If all scientists run their results through the same analytical software, using the same code as the first researcher, they are not providing confirmation, they are merely cloning the results. That doesn't give the original results either the confidence that they've been independently validated, or that they have been refuted.

    What you end up with is no-one having any confidence in the results - as they have only ever been produced in one way and arguments thatt descend into a slanging match between individuals and groups of vested interests who try to "prove" that the same results show they are right and everyone else is wrong.

    --
    politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
  14. Re:Slashdot Egocentrism. by AlXtreme · · Score: 3, Interesting

    that scientists outside of computer science are too busy in their respective fields to know anything about code, or even care.

    If their code results in predictions that affect millions of lives and trillions of dollars, perhaps they should learn to care.

    What I've personally seen of scientists is a frantic determination to publish papers anywhere and everywhere, no matter how well-founded the results in those papers are. The IPCC-gate is merely a symptom of a deeper problem within scientific research.

    If scientists are too busy because of publication quota's and funding issues to focus on delivering proper scientific research, maybe we should question our current means of supporting scientific research. Currently we've got quantity, but very little quality.

    --
    This sig is intentionally left blank
  15. Re:Conspiracy? by crmarvin42 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And then they fix the bug and either...

    A. The results change, thus indicating that the bug was important in some way. In this case, fixing the bug gained us not only silencing the critics, but improving our understanding.

    or

    B. The results don't change, thus indicating that the bug, while still a bug, was not important to the final result. In this case, we've fixed a bug that the critics were using as a banner, and that they were mistaken in it's importance. We don't get the improved understanding, but we do get a chance to politely say STFU to the more vocal/less qualified critics.

    Either way looks like win/win to me.

    --
    Bureaucracy expands to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy.-Oscar Wilde
  16. Re:Conspiracy? by xtracto · · Score: 3, Informative

    Agreed 100%.

    You would not believe the amount and crappy quality of the code performed during "research projects", specially when the research is in a field completely unrelated to Comp. Sci. or Soft. Eng.

    I have personally seen software related to Agronomy, Biology (Ecology) and Economics. The problem with a lot of that code is that sometimes researchers want to use the power of computers (say, for simulation) but do not know how to code, they then read a bit about some programming language and implement their program s they are learning.

    The result? you can imagine.

    --
    Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
  17. Not that simple by khayman80 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'm finishing a program that inverts GRACE data to reveal fluctuations in gravity such as those caused by melting glaciers. This program will eventually be released as open source software under the GPLv3. It's largely built on open source libraries like the GNU Scientific Library, but snippets of proprietary code from JPL found their way into the program years ago, and I'm currently trying to untangle them. The program can't be made open source until I succeed because of an NDA that I had to sign in order to work at JPL.

    It's impossible to say how long it will take to banish the proprietary code. While working on this project, my research is at a standstill. There's very little academic incentive to waste time on this idealistic goal when I could be increasing my publication count.

    Annoyingly, the data itself doesn't belong to me. Again, I had to sign an NDA to receive it. So I can't release the data. This situation is common to scientists in many different fields.

    Incidentally, Harry's README file is typical of my experiences with scientific software. Fragile, unportable, uncommented spaghetti code is common because scientists aren't professional programmers. Of course, this doesn't invalidate the results of that code because it's tested primarily through independent verification, not unit tests. Scientists describe their algorithms in peer-reviewed papers, which are then re-implemented (often from scratch) by other scientists. Open source code practices would certainly improve science, but he's wrong to imply that a single bug could have a significant impact on our understanding of the greenhouse effect.

  18. Re:Don't use that word by harvey+the+nerd · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Real scientists don't use simulators with incomplete equations and fudge factors to match highly manipulated historic data to "prove" their case with game machines that have no predictive capability or other external validation. That simply is not the way you build a valid fundamentals based model starting from the equations of motion. IPCC reports previously noted whole terms in the equations' energy terms that were inadequately described or represented, then have done no research to fill the terms, modellers just zeroing them out or putting in small constants for significant *variables*. These are not real scientists, their processes and practices have been clearly shown to be antithetical to valid science.

    These models are just primitive speculative tools, often reflecting personal biases in data selection and derivation, NOT fundamental equations. The models are NOT valid physics data or experiments.

    On prediction failure, Hansen's 1988 "A,B,C" forecasts of rising temperature are rapidly diverging from the cooling we are actually experiencing right now, where case C assumed we massively limited CO2 also. Missed the side of a barn with a shotgun, tsk, tsk, tsk.

  19. Re:Peer Review vs. Funding by PhilipPeake · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ... and this is the problem. The move from direct government grants to research to "industry partnerships".

    Well, (IMHO) if industry wants to make use of the resources of academic institutions, they need to understand the price: all the work becomes public property. I would go one step further, and say that one penny of public money in a project means it all becomes publicly available.

    Those that want to keep their toys to themselves are free to do so, but not with public money.

  20. Re:Slashdot Egocentrism. by Rising+Ape · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Nonsense, they're not trying to produce code, they're trying to produce science. It doesn't matter how ugly the code is, or how inefficient, as long as it produces correct answers. Since software engineering "best practices" seem to change every week (and do not prove program correctness in any case), what are they supposed to do, spend huge amounts of time learning as much as a professional software engineer would? Do you do that for all the tools you use?

    Does anyone have any evidence that the code is *wrong*? I.e. does it actually produce significantly wrong answers? I suspect not - this is just the latest FUD-spreading trick.

    This is just typical programmer "when your tool's a hammer" mentality. Software's not the most important thing in the world, and science has better ways to verify correctness - have several independent analyses of the same thing for example, or different ways of measuring the same thing to check for consistency.

  21. Re:Don't use that word by ArcherB · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Scientists need to realize that if they're going to get public support, they really need to be very careful with their choice of wording. Like it or not, the scare mongers, and I mean scare mongers in the sense that there are people who are trying to scare folks into believing that Global Warming is some sort of wealth redistribution scheme by the socialists, are going to use any hint, real or not, that scientists are making up their findings.

    Scare mongers? Let's take a look at some of these "hints" that scientists are making up their findings. From May 7, 2002

    Dozens of mountain lakes in Nepal and Bhutan are so swollen from melting glaciers that they could burst their seams in the next five years and devastate many Himalayan villages, warns a new report from the United Nations.

    From January 17, 2010:

    In the past few days the scientists behind the warning have admitted that it was based on a news story in the New Scientist, a popular science journal, published eight years before the IPCC's 2007 report.

    It has also emerged that the New Scientist report was itself based on a short telephone interview with Syed Hasnain, a little-known Indian scientist then based at Jawaharlal Nehru University in Delhi.

    Hasnain has since admitted that the claim was "speculation" and was not supported by any formal research.

    Do I need to pull the quotes that claim NY and Florida will be underwater?

    As for the "fear mongers" saying that GW is a socialist wealth redistribution scheme.

    Some officials from the United States, Britain and Japan say foreign-aid spending can be directed at easing the risks from climate change. The United States, for example, has promoted its three-year-old Millennium Challenge Corporation as a source of financing for projects in poor countries that will foster resilience. It has just begun to consider environmental benefits of projects, officials say.

    Industrialized countries bound by the Kyoto Protocol, the climate pact rejected by the Bush administration, project that hundreds of millions of dollars will soon flow via that treaty into a climate adaptation fund.

    Strange. When did Rush and Hannity start writing for the NY Times?

    --
    There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
  22. Precisely by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The more important the research, the larger the item under study, the more rigorous the investigation should be, the more carefully the data should be checked. This isn't just for public policy reasons but for general scientific understanding reasons. If your theory is one that would change the way we understand particle physics, well then it needs to be very thoroughly verified before we say "Yes, indeed this is how particles probably work, we now need to reevaluate tons of other theories."

    So something like this, both because of the public policy/economic implications and the general understanding of our climate, should be subject to extreme scrutiny. Now please note that doesn't mean saying "Look this one thing is wrong so it all goes away and you can't ever propose a similar theory again!" However it means carefully examining all the data, all the assumptions, all the models and finding all the problem with them. It means verifying everything multiple times, looking at any errors any deviations and figuring out why they are there and if they impact the result and so on.

    Really, that is how science should be done period. The idea of strong empiricism is more or less trying to prove your theory wrong over and over again, and through that process becoming convinced it is the correct one. You look at your data and say "Well ok, maybe THIS could explain it instead," and test that. Or you say "Well my theory predicts if X happens Y will happen, so let's try X and if Y doesn't happen, it's wrong." You show your theory is bulletproof not by making sure it is never shot at, but by shooting at it yourself over and over and showing that nothing damages it.

    However that this process is done right becomes more important the bigger the issue is. If you aren't right on a theory that relates to migratory habits of a sub species of bird in a single state, ok well that probably doesn't have a whole lot of wider implications for scientific understanding, or for the way the world is run. However if you are wrong on your theory of how the climate works, well that has a much wider impact.

    Scrutiny is critical to science, it is why science works. Science is all about rejecting the ideas that because someone in authority said it, it must be true, or that a single rigged demonstration is enough to hang your hat on. It is all about testing things carefully and figuring out what works, and what doesn't.

  23. It's an old story by jc42 · · Score: 4, Informative

    This is hugely worrying when you realise that just one error -- just one -- will usually invalidate a computer program.

    Back in the 1970s, a bunch of CompSci guys at the university where I was a grad student did a software study with interesting results. Much of the research computing was done on the university's mainframe, and the dominant language of course was Fortran. They instrumented the Fortran compiler so that for a couple of months, it collected data on numeric overflows, including which overflows were or weren't detected by the code. They published the results: slightly over half the Fortran jobs had undetected overflows that affected their output.

    The response to this was interesting. The CS folks, as you might expect, were appalled. But among the scientific researchers, the general response was that enabling overflow checking slowed down the code measurably, so it shouldn't be done. I personally knew a lot of researchers (as one of the managers of an inter-departmental microcomputer lab that was independent of the central mainframe computer center). I asked a lot of them about this, and I was appalled to find that almost every one of them agreed that overflow checking should be turned off if it slowed down the code. The mainframe's managers reported that almost all Fortran compiles had overflow checking turned off. Pointing out that this meant that fully half of the computed results in their published papers were wrong (if they used the mainframe) didn't have any effect.

    Our small cabal that ran the microprocessor lab reacted to this by silently enabling all error checking in our Fortran compiler. We even checked with the vendor to make sure that we'd set it up so that a user couldn't disable the checking. We didn't announce that we had done this; we just did it on our own authority. It was also done in a couple of other similar department-level labs that had their own computers (which was rare at the time). But the major research computer on campus was the central mainframe, and the folks running it weren't interested in dealing with the problem.

    It taught us a lot about how such things are done. And it gave us a healthy level of skepticism about published research data. It was a good lesson on why we have an ongoing need to duplicate research results independently before believing them.

    It might be interesting to read about studies similar to this done more recently. I haven't seen any, but maybe they're out there.

    --
    Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
  24. Re:Don't use that word by bunratty · · Score: 3, Informative

    On prediction failure, Hansen's 1988 "A,B,C" forecasts of rising temperature are rapidly diverging from the cooling we are actually experiencing right now, where case C assumed we massively limited CO2 also

    In the past ten years, we've seen warming of 0.18 degrees Celsius, which is less than the 0.25 degrees Celsius that was predicted, but it certainly hasn't been cooling. This is why the Arctic ice and Antarctic ice are melting. Yes, stop the presses, the globe is warming!

    --
    What a fool believes, he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.