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RIAA Insists On 3rd Trial In Thomas Case
NewYorkCountryLawyer writes "Not satisfied with the reduced $54,000 verdict which the Judge allowed it in Capitol Records v. Thomas-Rasset, representing approximately 6500 times the amount of their actual damages, the RIAA has decided to take its chances on a third trial, at which it could only win a verdict that is equal to, or less than, $54,000. Since a 3rd trial in and of itself makes no economic sense, and since the RIAA's lawyers inappropriately added 7 pages of legal argument to their 'notice', it can only be assumed that the reason they are opting for a 3rd trial is to hope that they can somehow bait the Judge into making an error that will help them on an appeal."
As more content becomes electronically available, such as ebooks, movies, etc this nonsense will proliferate. Even now, as book publishers try to increase the cost of books from 9.99 to 14,99 and higher, or delay release of electronic versions hoping people will buy the hard-copy first and the ebook 6 months later, there are attacks forming on the publishers (read Amazon reviews for ebooks > $9.99 and see the 1 star reviews), and there will be attacks on the technology as piracy takes hold. Everybody is just greedy, the consumers want it for a low cost that never changes, the publishers, the lawyers, etc. I pity the independent singer songwriter or now author who is blamed as part of the economic ecosystem of this mess. They may have a stigma attached to them they cannot shake and cannot grow beyond.
no comment
...it can only be assumed that the reason they are opting for a 3rd trial is to hope that they can somehow bait the Judge into making an error that will help them on an appeal."
No, I think other assumptions could also be made. Such as, maybe they're just a bunch of vindictive pricks who have the money and just want to screw with someone they lost to (well, it wasn't a loss, but they surely see it that way). Why not piss away another pile of cash?
Does the idea of double jeopardy apply in civil law? If not, what prevents a plaintiff with very deep pockets from suing a defendant for something, losing, suing them again, losing, etc until the defendant's funds with which to defend themselves run out? Because this sounds like a pretty open-and-shut case of the RIAA doing exactly that, and the overall effect is that said defendant effectively loses even if they win.
I am officially gone from
There are many legal avenues that a well-paid legal team can travel down to simply outpace the individual in both resources and time.
I'm going to tell a quick story. When I was a minor (though admittedly close to 18), my parent and I filed a lawsuit against [z] for wrongful discipline. It wasn't really wrongful discipline, but that's the easiest way to put it: [x] had broken code/regulations dozens of times during the course of the incident after I had unknowingly done something wrong due to a "disability"; my lawyer discovered all of this, and we filed the lawsuit. During the first settlement meeting, they were in one room, we were in another, our lawyers/mediators were jumping all over and meeting privately at times. (Typical mediation.) They were extremely heavy-handed and wouldn't settle for more than a meager amount at first. Four hours into the meeting, the mediator and my lawyer came in the room and we began talking. I decided to play the best card I had after the mediator had informed me that they will be willing to spend however much money it takes, and go through trial for probably over a year, (that that is their main weapon against litigants that are common folk without much money.) I made it very clear to the mediator: "Listen, I'm going to be honest, I don't care about this settlement, it's not even a dent in my worth. I want them to learn their lesson, and I will not walk out of here without getting at least 20x what they are offering. When I turn 18, I am inheriting over two million dollars and will be more than happy to pay as many lawyers as it takes. [$x] is an insult to me and my family, and unless we see [$20x], we'll be looking very forward to trial and the ability to speak to the press about this whole ordeal."
Long story short, after 5 hours worth of arguing over the size of a three digit settlement, the mediator came back and informed us that over the course of five minutes, they accepted the five-digit number upon finding out about my inheritance and my eagerness to go to trial. For me, it wasn't a risky move: my lawyer already had the media lined up to speak to me and break the story, I really was inheriting a very large amount of money, and I was dying to go to trial (because of the severity of the "awe" factor in my favor). It's important to note, however, that if you have these three things against you, it becomes a much risker move to make. Though it's a risky move, its very effective, because as this article clearly shows, a large corporation/entity's main weapon is the fact that they can afford far more legal action than you can. Also please note that I was blessed to have had a great lawyer: my family and I were literally going days without eating in order to pay the mortgage and one or two bills a month (single parent), but my lawyer offered to take the case and allow me to pay him once I turned 18 or when we won. Because I was a minor, the settlement wasn't given to me until I was 18 anyway. I was very lucky to have such a large upper-hand against an entity that had an enormous advantage to begin with.
Moral of the story: as soon as they found out I was willing to dish out just as much (if not more) money than they were to fight, they backed down and realized even 20x the original settlement amount is worth ending the matter ASAP. Granted, this article is dealing with the RIAA and I have nowhere near the amount of available resources that they do. Because of that, they will continue fighting this battle just because they can and would like to deter file-sharers from doing this in the future. Legal fights are all about money: ever seen the lower-class people on Judge Judy fighting over $100? How long do those cases last? Think about it, it's all about money, and unfortunately when an entity as large as the RIAA sues an individual, it is a very uneven fight.
Bear in mind that they're up against Kiwi Camara, hotshot pro-bona wunderkind, whose primary interest (at this point in his career) is in making a name for himself by tilting at windmills. You want proof? His other client is Psystar. Neither side (and I mean the RIAA vs Camara, not Thomas-Rasset, who is irrelevant at this point) has anything to lose and potentially something to gain by keeping this going indefinitely.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
As far as I understand, the judge has found that as a matter of law they can not claim more than 54,000$
This is not strictly true, and NYCL's summary is a bit misleading on this count. The jury question on damages will (unfortunately) be the same, and allow them to award between $750 and $150,000 for each infringed work. So they could again award $1.8 million, and have the judge again reduce it. However, what the RIAA is trying to do is draw out the issue of what damages are authorized by the statute - in the previous trial, the judge reduced the damages in a short post-trial motion without any opportunity for the parties to argue that he was wrong as a matter of law. This trial will give the RIAA an opportunity to get some facts and arguments on paper such that, if the judge limits damages again, they can appeal.
As for what other people have proposed, such as harassment of Thomas-Rasset or causing her to pay more, that's not an issue - I believe Camera-Sibley is defending her for free.
How many times must Thomas-Rasset go to court for copyright violation on twenty four songs?!
Well, the RIAA are the ones insisting on a new trial, so I suspect the answer is until the RIAA gets the verdict they want .
:)
I know it seems that way, but not really.
The first trial's verdict was set aside because the Judge recognized that his acceptance of the RIAA's incorrect jury instruction on "making available".
The ruling setting aside the second trial's verdict was a partial victory for Ms. Thomas-Rasset, reducing a $1,920,000 verdict to $54,000.
In view of the Judge's ruling on the second verdict, the RIAA will never 'get the verdict they want'; the most they can possibly get is $54,000.
It is common, in granting "remittitur" due to an obviously out of control jury, to lower the verdict, but offer the plaintiff a chance to reject the lower verdict and get a do-over. Nothing at all unusual about it.
The RIAA will never get more than $54,000, and may well get less the second time around. And if the Judge finally does tackle the constitutional issue, I predict the third verdict will be a WHOLE LOT less.
Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
Thought experiment.
Let's say I rob a store. I steal 100 copies of the White Album. I also steal 100 car radios.
If I give away those car radios, I am distributing them. I am generally liable for the cost of the radios plus reasonable damages based on a small multiplier of their value.
If I give away those CDs, by your argument I have committed damage to the copyright holder equivalent to the value of the distribution rights of those songs.
Explain to me how uploading a song is a worse crime than selling those stolen goods, how it violates the right to distribute in a worse way. And if you succeed at that, explain how it is in any way reasonable for selling stolen $20 CD's to be a crime 100x worse than selling stolen $100 car radios.
I can't believe you've tricked the moderators into moderating your bogus comments as "+3, informative" when it is clear you are a shill or a troll.
Ray, we've communicated via email separate from Slashdot. You know that I'm a law student, and neither a shill nor a troll. Calling me names doesn't dismiss my points.
My points, I'll notice, which you haven't responded to, but have instead shifted the issue to saying "the RIAA never proved distribution."
Nonetheless, as was explicitly noted in the Tenenbaum trial, Tenenbaum admitted liability for distribution. That is prima facie evidence of Tenenbaum's liability and admissible under FRE 801(d)(2)(A). Even if that was the sole bit of evidence offered to prove distribution by Tenenbaum, nothing more is needed to show his liability - essentially, he confessed, and it wasn't even an issue for the jury. All of his defenses were affirmative defenses.
If you want to continue your charade, please tell us SPECIFICALLY: 1. what the elements of "distribution" are under 17 USC 106(3) and 2. what evidence was submitted to prove them. Interesting that neither the RIAA nor the Department of Justice could do that, but you can.
Well, the DoJ didn't do that because they didn't try. The DoJ has only been involved in this case on the constitutionality of statutory damages and have explicitly stated at every turn that they take no position on actual liability for infringement by either Thomas or Tenenbaum, so that's a bit of a red herring.
As for the RIAA, 106(3) is the right "to distribute copies or phonorecords of the copyrighted work to the public by sale or other transfer of ownership, or by rental, lease, or lending." Of course you know that, so my guess is by stressing "distribution" in your question, you're asking for a definition of that specific word - if not, let me know.
For the definition of distribution, personally, I'd turn to Nimmer on Copyright, which states at section 8.11, "The copyright owner thus has the exclusive right publicly to sell, give away, rent or lend any material embodiment of his work." If you disagree with that definition, please let me know.
As for the evidence, as noted above, in the Tenenbaum case he admitted liability for distribution under oath. That's fine evidence. There was also the MediaSentry evidence, who downloaded a song from him, thus showing that he distributed it. Similarly, in the Thomas case, there was the MediaSentry evidence that was not excluded - whether it should have been is a different question. These show that Thomas and Tennenbaum both "gave away" a "material embodiment" of the work. Neither Thomas nor Tenenbaum presented any evidence that their actions did not constitute infringement under the First Sale doctrine.
These should answer your questions 1 and 2 above. Now, would you kindly address my points in the prior post, preferably without further calling me names?