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Enlightenment Returns To Bring Ubuntu To ARM
mu22le writes "Enlightenment, the daring window manager that disappeared from our collective radar years ago, is back to bring Ubuntu to ARM. The bet that E developers made years ago to neglect 3D, compositing, and make a fast and versatile 2.5d engine may have finally paid off. The current popularity of ARM-based devices could be a niche that the Enlightenment Foundation Libraries can fill comfortably."
Yeah.. um... huh?
Violence is like duct tape. If it doesn't solve the problem, you didn't use enough.
There is no GUI option to change the font size in Enlightenment but there is a way to change the font size; it involves editing config files. Although I should point out that Enlightenment puts a higher focus on having a light footprint than usability, it just doesn't seem to take it as far as Fluxbox does.
Sigs are too short to say anything truly profound so read the above post instead.
What is this? A config file for ants? How can we expect to increase the font size if we can't event read the words?
E17 doesn't give you the option to do that without going into the config files and manually editing them. It's not something that is any problem for more experienced Linux users but it is the kind of thing that may hurt adoption of E-17 Ubuntu.
Sigs are too short to say anything truly profound so read the above post instead.
I'm happy to see Enlightenment getting some more exposure. I may have to dust it off and take the latest version out for a spin again. I've been using XFCE for a year now and it's high time for an arbitrary switch to a new DE.
So if this is the future...where's my jet pack?
The problem with inner beauty is that it's usually hidden under several layers of outer ugly.
Really? Honestly? Or is it just media hype?
I think it's just a slashdot hype, as Linux runs on ARM and Windows doesn't so... I use Linux but honestly the competition is moving at about the same pace as Linux, the gap isn't closing much.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
I can't wait to try E out on my new Pandora!
http://www.open-pandora.org/
Nevermore.
no, the light from the monitor alerts the nazis, he meant anne frank
For the lazy here is the relevant quote:
I always liked Enlightenment, though found it impractical for getting things done. Might be time to take another look at it if it's seeing development work again.
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
one of my pet peeves is seeing "payed" instead of "paid" and "loose" instead of "lose.
Just because the spellchucker doesn't pick it up doesn't mean it's correct...
Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
Hardware will catch up in due course.
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
I should point out that Enlightenment puts a higher focus on having a light footprint than usability...
;-)
Funny you should say that - back in ~'97 or so I used to use Enlightenment as a WM with Gnome. In those days we all thought of it as a big badass resource-hungry monster. I never did get the hang of using Enlightenment as a full desktop environment, however. I have no problem with editing config files, but I never bothered spending the time learning how to get applications launched. Sort of defeats the object if you have to fire them up from an xterm...
Hopefully it's come along a bit since then.
The catch is that you need to KNOW these commands. I spend a lot of time in terminal personally, but I can think that someone who does not know will struggle.
Seven Days with Ubuntu Unity
I'm not a Mac user who likes staring at the shiny toolbar renderings and 3D compositing effects while watching billable hours go by.
Nor am I, I'm a Mac user who gets on with his work. Congratulations on making wild generalisations based on the default animation style of a persons window manager...
It's Ubuntu that package the whole thing and decide on the default font size.
E only plays the part of supplying the critically needed libraries.
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
Because at this point Apple's computers and OS are _by far_ the most conservative in appearance compared to other major players.
Platform advocacy is like choosing a favorite severely developmentally disabled child.
You are an experienced Linux user and you think you need to edit config files to change setting in your GUI? It has not occurred to you to try using Gnome, KDE, LXDE, XFCE, ICE WM or numerous others that let you change settings from the GUI - have never edited a config file to change a KDE setting, and my desktop is very far from the defaults.
You are a liar - either an idiot, an astroturfer, or a troll.
[quote]Hopefully it's come along a bit since then.[/quote]
The decided to rewrite it. They lost the cool overlapping desktops feature, and it i unusably immature.
It was always lightweight used as a DE. I never tried it with Gnome.
Good luck with that. I'm an experienced Linux user and I got a mac. Used MacOS for three months exclusively... never could get used to it. The thing is MacOS is designed to be intuitive, but not user friendly.
The thing is you don't have to tinker with configuration files in linux. Yes its there, but you don't have to do it. Have you actually tried just using the default Ubuntu install and not messing around with GUI settings? It's actually quite nice. The problem is you've gotten used to doing things a different way over the years and you know you can make things work the way you want it to if you find the right configuration file.
All MacOS does is remove the configuration options. So it forces you to get used it. Unfortunately, I never could. I usually have several things opened at once and switch between them. Under MacOS I have to push the F9, watch the pretty expose animation look around the screen, and then click on the app I want. Every time I push F9 apps are in a different spot. Under Ubuntu I just click on the item in the taskbar which is always on the screen and the task is always in the same spot (unless I reorder it by dragging it to a different spot in the taskbar). In MacOS I can cut and paste files to move them to a new folder. I can't set keyboard shortcuts to change songs in iTunes, I have to use the little remote control (which I've lost). etc, etc.
Under MacOS you are forced to do things the way Steve Jobs wants you to do them. With Linux you can do things whatever way you want to do them.
I can save you some money if you do the following: Instead of forcing yourself into doing things the way Steve Jobs wants you to do them, why not force yourself into doing things the way Mark Shuttleworth wants you to them? Install Ubuntu and keep the default GUI settings. Just resist the urge to tinker. I've found Ubuntu to have a better thought out user interface than MacOS.
Typing this from a MacBook Pro with Ubuntu. Just wish it had a pgdown, pgup, home, end, a second mouse button, more USB ports, a working audio in port, and especially DELETE key. I guess Steve Jobs never has to delete stuff that comes after the cursor so the Macbook Pro doesn't need it.
He is right even if he is "selling" Linux. Gnome has far more gui options available in gui control panels than Windows even offers. The same goes for KDE and XFCE.
Editing text config files is common for fluxbox and E17 but Gnome, XFCE and KDE rarely if ever require config file editing to change settings. I would imagine that is a large part of why they are far far more popular than E17 and Fluxbox. People could dig into the config files if they have to but I agree that it's just a "frak it! no more fiddling!" moment for most people.
Sigs are too short to say anything truly profound so read the above post instead.
Ironically, when I first tried Enlightenment (in the '90s) It was the heavy weight eye-candy desktop that was sort of the compiz of the day. (I think I had a 300mhz CPU and a Voodoo video card IIRC)
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I'm an experienced Linux user and I got a mac. Used MacOS for three months exclusively... never could get used to it.
It doesn't appear that you put any effort into it.
All MacOS does is remove the configuration options. So it forces you to get used it.
On the contrary, it lets you get straight to work, and when you run into specific Many of them, yes. None of your examples captures this notion. There are certain brick walls that you do have to get used to, but there are many layers of customization possible in almost everything. Off the top of my head, I can't think of a single thing that I absolutely can't do from the OS X desktop that I can on Ubuntu.
The difference is that there are far, far fewer necessary configuration options to get started, which is a huge timesaver.
Every time I push F9 apps are in a different spot.
Only if you move them. The Exposé sequence is based on the position of the windows on your desktop. It's not random. If none of your windows move, the order won't change.
Under Ubuntu I just click on the item in the taskbar which is always on the screen and the task is always in the same spot
You could always try clicking on the application's icon in the Dock, which is always on the screen (unless you move it). Those icons don't move, either, unless you move them. Just like Exposé windows.
In MacOS I can cut and paste files to move them to a new folder.
I assume you mean can't. With good reason: it breaks the metaphor. When you cut text and fail to paste it, it disappears. That behavior is undesirable for files, so they just get put back where they were (unlike cut text). Finder is meant to be used with a mouse and multiple windows. There's always Terminal or third-party file managers that can be more Windows Explorer-like (Ubuntu's model) if that's your preference.
Moving isn't exactly difficult: just open up adjacent Finder windows and drag. Keyboard users can use mv in Terminal. If you really want to enable this functionality, it's trivial to implement in AppleScript, which you can assign to a keyboard shortcut. There's also Filecutter if you really just want the functionality restored.
I can't set keyboard shortcuts to change songs in iTunes, I have to use the little remote control (which I've lost)
This is the craziest one. There are about 19,000 different ways to set global keyboard shortcuts to switch back/forward in playlists in iTunes.
Just wish it had a pgdown, pgup, home, end,
Fn+left, right, up, down
a second mouse button
Oh come on. Two finger tap, control-click, buy a multi-button mouse.
a working audio in port
Care to elaborate?
and especially DELETE key.
Fn+delete is forward delete.
This is all pretty basic stuff that my kids managed. Certainly, no sophisticated Linux user could actually go three months without figuring all of those things out.
As a long-time Debian and Ubuntu user myself, I find it particularly comical that you think Ubuntu is well-thought-out. Configuration options are scattered about, the menubar has a truly bizarre default arrangement, and the application menu is far from complete. It's much more likely the case that "well thought out" means "the one I'm more familiar with".
There are some things that are just not customizable in OS X, it's true. But so much more of it is than you seem to realize, both internally and with third-party extensions. Additional features can always be added to suit users, as adding is easy, but you can't ever get less than the minimum. Just look at the Firefox disputes that erupt between the "I want a lean, clean browser...you can clutter it with a
Would be somewhat indicting of Nokia's choice of OS should an alternative, indepdent platform take off though!
The elephant in the room is that the only reason that anyone is considering E17 is that there are no proper drivers for the hardware. The current generation of ARM SoCs that are being used for this kind of application all come with a GPU that can handle OpenGL ES 2.0. That means that they have a fully programmable pipeline and are massively overpowered for running something like Compiz. With proper drivers, they could handle pretty much any effects that you wanted to throw at them, including things like ripple effects (which require pixel shaders).
E17 doesn't use 3D acceleration, so it suddenly has an advantage when you are on a platform with missing 3D drivers. Add 3D drivers, and suddenly E17 is using the CPU while everything else is using the GPU, and E17 will be dumped because it gives you less battery life.
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That's just totally not true anymore. There are gui config dialogs for pretty much everything now.
"E17 just doesn't have a GUI for changing certain settings" ... Umm, what settings would those be ?? Have you even tried it lately ? There are gui configs for pretty much everything. Please, check the facts before posting misinformation
Only if you move them. The Exposé sequence is based on the position of the windows on your desktop. It's not random. If none of your windows move, the order won't change.
Unless a window has opened or closed. If you now have an odd number of windows, then there is a significant chance that all of your windows have moved. If you now have an even number of windows, then at least the apps on the last line have moved.
You could always try clicking on the application's icon in the Dock, which is always on the screen (unless you move it). Those icons don't move, either, unless you move them.
Uh, the Dock is a gigantic failure in UI because it expands and contracts as new icons appear, representing new windows. Only if all the apps you use are pinned will the dock begin to work as you suggest, but every time you connect a removable device, insert a CD, or experience a popup window from the OS, everything in the Dock moves. So you are lying...
Just like Exposé windows.
Yes, just like you lied about those.
In MacOS I can cut and paste files to move them to a new folder.
I assume you mean can't. With good reason: it breaks the metaphor. When you cut text and fail to paste it, it disappears.
So what? Windows solves this fine by fading icons you've cut. Or maybe that's patented? Snicker.
Moving isn't exactly difficult: just open up adjacent Finder windows and drag.
Harder for some people with trouble using the mouse.
Keyboard users can use mv in Terminal.
Enjoy the lengthy Apple paths. Also, using mv breaks the metaphor (snicker #2) of directories-as-Apps-with-a-single-icon.
Linux with Compiz presents a superior interface to OSX because it does all the stuff OSX does but better and more configurable. I disabled my gnome-panel and use avant-window-navigator from the AWN testing team PPA, and I use compiz' hot corners to give me a live mipmapped view of my four virtual desktops in one corner, and to line up all my windows (again, mipmapped and nice and smooth) when I mouse to the other corner. And I get to retain all the keyboard-controlled goodness at the same time. OSX has somewhat smoother animations since Xgl was canned, and while we wait for a replacement to not suck, but I don't need the magic lamp effect to my dock. It is kind of nice, though, and I miss it a little. So I'll give OSX one consolation point.
Don't pretend that OSX's lack of configurability is an asset. It is not. Having one default behavior is valuable, but preventing choice is not a benefit to the user. It is a benefit to the company. And when people see my Compiz desktop, they start throwing rocks at actual macs. Of course, to be fair, when people see iLife, they start throwing rocks at Linux... but that's not because of the OS GUI.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I've been running the E17 DR since ~2005 and that hasn't been true for quite some time. You do not need to edit config files, and in fact when you install E17 the first time it even has an option for a GUI specifically designed for Netbooks. Maybe the Ubuntu version is just broken.
When you're afraid to download music illegally in your own home, then the terrorists have won!
Um, excuse me? What SoC are you talking about? With some simple googling, here's two videos - 1, 2 - showing 3D demos running on the OMAP3-powered Beagle Board. The linked news item (TFA) even mentions an OpenGL ES 'engine' for Evas being contributed by Samsung. 3D drivers are certainly available for the PowerVR GPU in the OMAP3 (albeit binary-only), and Enlightenment would seem to be able to use 3D acceleration.
in e17 there is a wonderful full complete ui scaling factor - u can ask it to be automatically adjusted from dpi - if x dpi is right, or just slide the slider to where you like it... so moot for 17 - not to mention a font config dialog when themes support textclasses...
--------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --------------------
the elephant in the room is that e17's libraries (efl) have been using full accelerated pipelines like opengl to render years before gnome or kde did... maybe you never saw the original evas gl rendering demos... all hidden behind a canvas api that rendered any way you like... the engine got revamped recently thanks to samsung for opengl-es2.0... not just opengl (full opengl).
(note - ubuntu's problem is the lack of ability to ship the binary-only powervr opengl drivers themseleves - thus their hands are tied. manufacutrers who make full products invariably have access o the driver source and have ship them on their devices).
so.. e17 does... it just ALSO has a highly tuned software engine for when the pipeline doesn't work... /me goes back to his e17 on an arm soc with full gl-es2 compositing, tear-free rendering and silky smooth scrolling with many layers of blending and smoothness
--------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --------------------
Before saying anything, you should perhaps get some real information. E17 use Evas to handle the graphics canvas and Evas does provide tons of different backend. OpenGL ES is one of them. E17 is the only window manager that can scale from hardware without any GPU, to hardware with just a blitter or hardware with full Open GL.
And in all of this scenario, it is highly optimised. My bet that at a graphic equivalent result, you will use less ressource with E17 than with any other WM. Oh, and E17 is the only WM that propose a composit manager that doesn't require OpenGL hardware.
And no the main interest of E17 is not its graphics layer, but it's theme/layout engine: Edje. This give a real possibility to have one code that will run every where. Just change the theme, and you will have huge animation that can't run without a big GPU, or with another theme, you will be perfect on an e-book black and white screen.
So press Command+Option+D.
Sorted. How hard was that?
(Or if you don;t know the keyboard command, go to System Preferences, click on "Dock" and tick the box that says "automatically hide and show the dock" - you can also tun off the animation here if you like, and change the size of the Dock itself, its position on the screen and whether it magnifies when you hover over it)
It's pretty intuitive really - all of the UI options are in System Prefs. Even better, the help box on that app responds to the Windows keywords for what you are changing. For example, if you type in "Wallpaper" it highlights the Desktop and Screensaver icon, and indicates that on Mac OS X that is called "Desktop Picture". So, if you have found it hard to use, you must not have read the little intro thing Apple produced which mentions this. (I just tried it - it is still working in 10.6).
I know a few people who keep their Dock on the left side of their screen because the display is wider than it is tall and they like it over on that side. Can you put the start menu/toolbar thing on the sides of the screen in Vista? I know you can change the size of it, but I haven't been in front of a Windows box since XP.
I'm with you, man. Nobody else has problems with cut and paste files, just the Mac. It breaks the metaphor, but so does dozens of other things they've done to add glitz over the years. (btw, select, drag, hold down the apple key and release mouse button to cut and paste across file systems.) I am used to the OS X user interface, but it took me YEARS to get used to it. There are still things I find annoying. I am not sure what to say on the Expose thing. I can hit f9 over and over and the windows will NOT tile into the same place.
Here are some things I would love to have the option of on Mac OS X:
* Solid window border
* no drop shadows or fading
* remove transparency in menus
* Minimize with no effect
* focus follows mouse
The first four are eminently doable and there is no reason for not having the option other than the fact that Apple is a walled garden. The last one, I am told, is not possible to implement fully correctly on OS X because of assumptions the OS API makes about windows being in focus. Oh well.
In defense of Apple, many annoyances have been fixed since back when I first started using OS X 1.2. Adding alt-tab was great, expose is excellent, so is Spaces. The combination of all three of these speed up my workflow tremendously. It is my environment of choice, but I won't kiss Jobs ass. Some things should be configurable and they just aren't because the OS appearance is a marketing tool for them. I don't care much how stupid Gnome on Ubuntu supposedly looks because I can change it to whatever I want and be happy. Not so on a Mac.