Opera Open Sources Dragonfly

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Posted by ScuttleMonkey on Friday February 19, 2010 @03:37AM from the microsoft-soon-to-launch-flyswatter dept.

netux writes to mention that Opera has released Dragonfly, their answer to Firebug, as an open source project under the BSD license. The release features a complete architectural overhaul using a modern version of the Scope Protocol (STP-1), a Mercurial repository on BitBucket, and a Wiki to get the ball rolling. "This is Opera’s first full open source project, so there will be a learning curve. We ask you to bear with us while we get everything up and running and policies in place. Coming from a closed source background there are some hurdles to overcome, such as the current bug tracking system being on a closed server. We hope to migrate to an open bug tracking system as the project gets on its feet."

24 of 78 comments (clear)

Let the Name Confusion BEGIN! by eldavojohn · 2010-02-19 03:37 · Score: 4, Interesting

Dragonfly? Well, guess the FreeBSD fork by Matt Dillon (not the actor) that was named Dragonfly will now have to be referred to as Dragonfly BSD to avoid confusion. That was one of the first live Linux distributions I played around with and what comes to mind when I hear the name "Dragonfly" in software.

It boggles my mind why people pick project names that are not more original. You're basically shooting yourself in the foot as far as domain registration, marketability and search rankings are concerned.

Opera was originally a Norwegian company, right? They should have went with the Norwegian word for Dragonfly: "Øyenstikker." Which literally means "Eye Poker." Well, okay, maybe not ...

--
My work here is dung.
1. Re:Let the Name Confusion BEGIN! by bcmm · 2010-02-19 03:41 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  That was one of the first live Linux distributions I played around with and what comes to mind when I hear the name "Dragonfly" in software.
  A Linux distribution typically involves Linux.
  
  As for the rest, I agree that it's a bit confusing, especially given the choice of license.
  
  --
  # cat /dev/mem | strings | grep -i llama
  Damn, my RAM is full of llamas.
2. Re:Let the Name Confusion BEGIN! by Rhaban · 2010-02-19 03:43 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  The name is not new, dragonfly has been in opera for something like 2 years.
  Since it can not possibly be mistaken for dragonfly bsd, I think it's not a real problem. If you want your product name not to be used for something else, start by not using an existing word.
3. Re:Let the Name Confusion BEGIN! by eldavojohn · 2010-02-19 03:44 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  A Linux distribution typically involves Linux.
  Yep, I'm an idiot. I mean FreeBSD. It was the first "live disc" that I ever experimented with.
  
  Shall I assume the fetal position now or should my strategy be to hope that one of the first blows is directly to my skull resulting in my immediate unconsciousness?
  
  --
  My work here is dung.
4. Re:Let the Name Confusion BEGIN! by zach_the_lizard · 2010-02-19 03:56 · Score: 2, Funny
  
  We would add you technological and biological distinctiveness into our own, but your uncaring reference to Dragonfly BSD as a Linux distro has caused us to feel that such distinctiveness would result in a lesser ability to assimilate others. We will still make life hell for you, though.Oh, and resistance is futile.
  
  --
  SSC
5. Re:Let the Name Confusion BEGIN! by commodore64_love · 2010-02-19 03:56 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  >>> Confusion indeed.
  Can I run that Live Linux BSD on my Commodore with Amiga OS 4??? Or will it be incompatible with Workbench?
  
  --
  "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
6. Re:Let the Name Confusion BEGIN! by shutdown+-p+now · 2010-02-19 04:13 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  Dragonfly? Well, guess the FreeBSD fork by Matt Dillon (not the actor) that was named Dragonfly will now have to be referred to as Dragonfly BSD to avoid confusion.
  It already was for as long as I can remember.
  
  It boggles my mind why people pick project names that are not more original. You're basically shooting yourself in the foot as far as domain registration, marketability and search rankings are concerned.
  When introduced, Opera Dragonfly was not a separate product - more like a feature in Opera. It's something that comes out of the box, so it doesn't need any particular marketability apart from Opera itself.
7. Re:Let the Name Confusion BEGIN! by ArsonSmith · 2010-02-19 04:20 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  That's OK the so called FreeBSD and other "UNIX" operating systems are Linux Like operating system
  
  --
  Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
8. Re:Let the Name Confusion BEGIN! by eldavojohn · 2010-02-19 04:25 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  That's OK ...
  *pauses from apologetically grovelling*
  
  Is this some sort of trap? Are ... are you sure you're a Slashdot user? I would rather confuse Mohammad with Jesus in an internationally distributed newspaper attributed to my real name than confuse Linux with FreeBSD on Slashdot under a pseudonym.
  
  --
  My work here is dung.
9. Re:Let the Name Confusion BEGIN! by H0p313ss · 2010-02-19 04:34 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  Is this some sort of trap?
  Run dude, they're just trying to slow you down and keep you posting so they can get your IP address and zero in on your location.
  
  --
  XML is a known as a key material required to create SMD: Software of Mass Destruction
10. Re:Let the Name Confusion BEGIN! by mewsenews · 2010-02-19 04:47 · Score: 2, Funny
  
  Shall I assume the fetal position now or should my strategy be to hope that one of the first blows is directly to my skull resulting in my immediate unconsciousness?
  *sigh* Another one seeking death in the BSD vs Linux affair, is it?
  My son, the great Stallman taught us to be wary of those seeking martyrdom. Do you truly believe your actions worthy of those men that gave their lives in glory for Emacs vs Vi, or even more recently, Gnome vs KDE?
  No. To your feet, knave. Your sentence is a short duration of trolling marked by significant.. intensity.
  And for Stallman's sake, next time at least pick a side before seeking the sweet mercy of the blade.
  Yours in battle,
  Ernest Shackleford
  Church of GNU
11. Re:Let the Name Confusion BEGIN! by mikkelm · 2010-02-19 05:00 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  I agree completely with your argument against adopting names used elsewhere. I was googling for local lacrosse teams, and next thing you know I'm at a dealership buying a Buick. It's so confusing.
12. Re:Let the Name Confusion BEGIN! by Zaiff+Urgulbunger · 2010-02-19 07:32 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  Chrome was a bit of a crap name too. Any time I'm searching for something chrome related, I wind up with Firefox pages since they cover the same topics along with the word "chrome". It's bleedin' annoying, that's what it is!!! :D
13. Re:Let the Name Confusion BEGIN! by amicusNYCL · 2010-02-19 07:45 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  In this case it is two pieces of open-source software meant to run on general computing hardware.
  If you're going to describe it in the broadest possible terms, then yeah you can introduce confusion. If you realize that one of them is an operating system, and one of them is essentially a browser plugin, then you can use the context of the discussion to remove ambiguity.
  "I used Dragonfly to inspect the DOM and modify some styles."
  What do you think that means, do you think that means someone booted into BSD and somehow loaded up a document object and stylesheets into the OS?
  "I booted into Dragonfly and uploaded the update."
  What do you think that means, do you think that someone is using Opera's debugging tools to boot their computer?
  
  --
  "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
I never knew that's what my.opera.com was for! by metamechanical · 2010-02-19 03:42 · Score: 4, Funny

Would someone be so kind as to provide a mirror?
I tried to RTFA, but my office has my.opera.com blocked under the Forbidden Category "Intimate Apparel/Swimsuit". Who knew?

--
If I had a nickel for every time I had a nickel, I'd be richcursive!
1. Re:I never knew that's what my.opera.com was for! by zxSpectrum · 2010-02-19 03:45 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  Here:
  Since the inception of Opera Dragonfly, we planned for it to become an open source project. It has always been released under an open source BSD licence, but the source repositories were on Opera servers. Starting today, Opera Dragonfly is a fully open source project, hosted on BitBucket. Since the previous version of Opera Dragonfly, a lot of work has gone on behind the scenes replacing the existing architecture with a modern version of the Scope Protocol STP-1. Opera Dragonfly has been rewritten to use this faster and more efficient version of Scope. Now that we believe that the underlying protocol is stable and performant, and a public desktop build has been released with this included, it is time to put Opera Dragonfly on a public Mercurial repository.
  If you have a Mercurial client you can visit the Opera Dragonfly STP-1 repository and check out the source code. We have provided initial documentation in the Wiki to get you started. This is Operas first full open source project, so there will be a learning curve. We ask you to bear with us while we get everything up and running and policies in place. Coming from a closed source background there are some hurdles to overcome, such as the current bug tracking system being on a closed server. We hope to migrate to an open bug tracking system as the project gets on its feet.
  As well as the current and previous versions of the Opera Dragonfly source code, we have released a couple of tools to help with Opera Dragonfly development. The first is Dragonkeeper. This is a standalone proxy, which translates STP (Scope Transport Protocol) to HTTP. This can also be useful for remote debugging. The second tool is Hob. Hob is a utility to create code from Protocol Buffer descriptions. Protocol Buffers are one of the formats Scope STP-1 supports along with JSON and XML.
  The focus of the current release of Opera Dragonfly was stability and performance. As such you will not see a great deal of new features. We believe it was invaluable to build a strong foundation, so we can advance faster, with less issues in the future. Two new features you may notice since the previous desktop release are a new element highlight (first introduced in Opera Mobile), and a colour picker utility. The highlight has been optimised since the mobile release, and supports visualising the metrics of an element on the page, and multiple element selection. The colour picker is still in early development. It allows for the magnification and selection of colours from the Web page. The value of the colour is displayed in both HSL, RGB and hexadecimal formats. Work has also began behind the scenes to take advantage of HTML5 Web Storage to store users settings and preferences. This will eventually allow the application to be greatly customisable, and to remember layout and settings from a previous session. One of the biggest usability issues has also been solved, with inspect element being available from the Web page context menu. This reduces the steps needed to start debugging a Web page.
  The current focus for the Scope protocol is improving the JavaScript debugger. This work is nearing completion on the Scope side, and will provide functionality such as the Firebug Console API.
  We hope you enjoy this version of Opera Dragonfly, and that some of you will be inspired enough to help with the Opera Dragonfly project. If you like a challenge, this is a great place to start. Visit the Opera Dragonfly repository to find out more information.
  
  --
  http://virtuelvis.com/
2. Re:I never knew that's what my.opera.com was for! by Rhaban · 2010-02-19 04:02 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  Here:
  Since the inception of Opera Dragonfly, [...]
  Irrelevant.
  What we want is the "Intimate Apparel/Swimsuit" classified pages.
There's always google by Kjella · 2010-02-19 04:06 · Score: 2, Insightful

netux writes to mention that Opera has released Dragonfly, their answer to Firebug, as an open source project under the BSD license. The release features a complete architectural overhaul using a modern version of the Scope Protocol (STP-1), a Mercurial repository on BitBucket, and a Wiki to get the ball rolling.
But would it be too much to ask that the summary contains at least once sentence about WTF the Scope Protocol is and what it can be used for?

--
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
1. Re:There's always google by Kjella · 2010-02-19 04:08 · Score: 2, Funny
  
  Comment above was written in C++ instead of C and thus contains a C too many. Please do a C-- before mentally compiling.
  
  --
  Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Grumble by m.dillon · 2010-02-19 04:22 · Score: 5, Funny

Sigh.
--- Matt starts working on Opera Viruses.
-Matt
Re:And all of this is already available in Chrome by commodore64_love · 2010-02-19 04:26 · Score: 2, Informative

This is the second time in less than 24 hours you pushed Chrome. Hmmm. (shrug)
Anyway I've heard that Opera is actually the #1 browser in Eastern Europe, Russia, and China. So if you live in those regions, it makes logical sense to use Opera as your development tool and target.

--
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
Re:But Opera develops all new features first! by Anonymous Coward · 2010-02-19 05:00 · Score: 5, Informative

Opera has released Dragonfly, their answer to Firebug
I propose a new betting pool: How long until an Opera fanatic claims Opera developed Dragonfly first, and Firebug is just a ripoff.
Actually before Dragonfly opera had a different set of developer tools, called Developer Console

Opera Developer Console
Opera now includes a developer console that can be added into the browser with many new features. The developer console includes new tools including DOM inspector, JavaScript inspector, CSS editor and HTTP header inspector.
Which were released 15 Nov, 2006, and on my research that is a year or so before firefox.
Link: http://dev.opera.com/tools/
Yeah silly them by SmallFurryCreature · 2010-02-19 06:18 · Score: 4, Interesting

It is not like they make any money by selling it to Nintendo and others, they should opensource their code just because.
Opera is the perfect example of how closed source and opensource can exist next to each other AND show you the advantages and disadvantages of both models.
Firefox vs Opera has some interesting differences. Firefox is more adjustable especially with its extensions, Opera feels more solid like someone actually was in charge of all its different features and insisted they work together. Take mouse-gestures and tabbed browsing. Firefox gives more choice but it feels very clear that these things are bolted on, while in Opera they come as they are but are how the browser has been designed to work from the start.
No, keep Opera closed source, competition from different suppliers is a good thing.

--

MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Re:And all of this is already available in Chrome by styrotech · 2010-02-19 09:08 · Score: 2, Informative

In the same way, using a debug tool to determine whether a webpage is working correctly is a crapshoot. Should I go with the best browser (Opera)? How about the most wide-spread browser (IE)? Or should I target the browser most likely to gain the most marketshare (Webkit, aka Chrome and Safari)? Or what about the old stalwart (Netscape)?
They all purport to do the same thing, provide great debugging tools. But how can I trust them when they work so differently from each other and have such different levels of standards support?
I think you're missing the point. These tools aren't entirely for debugging as such - there are validators for finding the actual bugs in your own HTML/CSS.
These tools are more for inspecting how that particular browser is working with and interpreting your code, letting you manipulate that on the fly, and identifying the exact parts of your (hopefully already valid) code that the browser is having trouble with rendering or running. They need to work inside the browser as each browser has its own set of bugs or quirks you need to work around and/or learn to avoid in the first place.
Whether a web page is working properly or not to an end user can't really be judged from outside that users browser - they are using their web browsers interpretation of the web page rather than some absolute objective measure.