Slashdot Mirror


Tech Companies Say Don't Blame Canada For Copyright Problems

An anonymous reader writes "The Computer & Communications Industry Association, which includes a who's-who of the tech world, including Microsoft, Google, T-Mobile, Fujitsu, AMD, eBay, Intuit, Oracle, and Yahoo, has issued a strong defense of current Canadian copyright law, arguing that the US is wrong to place Canada on the annual Special 301 list. The submission argues that the US should not criticize Canada for not implementing anti-circumvention rules (PDF) and warns against using the Special 301 process to 'remake the world in the image of the DMCA.'"

35 of 104 comments (clear)

  1. Proudly Canadian by KazW · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I love the fact that I can download copy written content without penalty as long as I don't redistribute it... Fuckin' eh!!

    --
    Geeks don't grock information, they grep it.
    1. Re:Proudly Canadian by Nerdfest · · Score: 4, Informative

      As far as I've seen, those warnings are given to people downloading using P2P, which also counts as distribution.

    2. Re:Proudly Canadian by KazW · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I only get 100 gigs a month from Shaw, I usually do at least double that, but all my connections are encrypted, be it BT or usenet. So far, no warnings after a few years of doing so, but they have mentioned that my area has very low usage compared to my personal usage when I've called to get my modem reset.

      To get back on topic, the chances are very remote, and that's the way I like it. Personally, I feel Canadian copyright law is far ahead of the US's DMCA centric attitude. The nature of copyright has to evolve with current times and technologies, allowing P2P downloads for personal use while putting a fee on MP3 players and blank media is a compromise that I see as fair.

      --
      Geeks don't grock information, they grep it.
    3. Re:Proudly Canadian by twidarkling · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yep. Personally, I'm a big fan of the fact that we can format-shift, and make copies of friends' music, and stuff like that. I recognize the necessity to respect copyright, but the US has gone completely overboard, and few industries have any idea of the proper way to deal with it.

      (In case any industry movers/shakers are reading this, the proper way isn't DRM, it's increasing ease and accessibility of your work.)

      --
      Canada: The US's more awesome sibling.
    4. Re:Proudly Canadian by Xiozhiq · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Leaving ethical implications of piracy aside, I'm just curious whether you're sure your BT connections are encrypted. Many clients offer encryption for the purpose of circumventing traffic shaping procedures used by some ISPs, but are very adamant that this encryption does NOT provide any assurance in skirting the law. As far as I am aware, no client offers true endpoint-to-endpoint encryption, but even if they did offer it, most clients choose low-strength ciphers like RS4, because using the stronger AES cipher requires a lot more CPU cycles for both the handshake (which must be done with every peer you connect to), as well as the actual encryption of the sent data.

      While encryption does make it harder to detect that the traffic crossing ISPs networks is in fact BT-related, it's not impossible for them to crack it. Also, being that circumstancial evidence, or simple blackmail, has worked for the RIAA thus far, I wouldn't be willing to chance it.

      Were I to be interested in torrenting some content in a less-than-legal manner, I would ensure that I remained low on the RIAA (and others') priority lists by:
      1) not downloading anything that is immensely popular (i.e. selling well) right now, or hasn't been released yet
      2) encrypting as much of everything as possible in the event that the connections generated by me do catch someone's eye
      3) not piss off your ISP by torrenting to your max bandwidth during peak hours (most clients have a download-scheduling preference pane that will allow you to restrict, or eliminate, downloading during these peak hours http://www.pcpro.co.uk/blogs/2009/01/08/sunday-evening-the-new-web-rush-hour/ ). PS, if anyone has found any good, concrete data on when peak internet usage is, i'd love to see it :)
      4) use a blocklist (some people like 'em, some people hate 'em). there's not much concrete data on whether they really help, but it helps me feel better. some clients (like Transmission) have built-in ones

      And of course, feel free to correct/discuss any of this.

    5. Re:Proudly Canadian by realityimpaired · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Unless the ISP gets a complaint from the copyright holder, they're not going to warn you for it. They do use traffic shaping to deprioritize traffic like BitTorrent, though, so you might notice lower transfer rates during peak hours, but that's about it.

      And you're right, the ISP is much happier to charge you for the overage. In fact, most of those ISPs will actually sell you bandwidth "insurance" packages to allow you to have the overage... Bell, for example, will charge $5/month per 40GB extra you buy, to a maximum of 120GB.

    6. Re:Proudly Canadian by realityimpaired · · Score: 4, Informative

      To get back on topic, the chances are very remote, and that's the way I like it. Personally, I feel Canadian copyright law is far ahead of the US's DMCA centric attitude. The nature of copyright has to evolve with current times and technologies, allowing P2P downloads for personal use while putting a fee on MP3 players and blank media is a compromise that I see as fair

      The reason that things like file sharing are legal in Canada is specifically because Canadian copyright law *hasn't* changed. Our laws were written in the 1980's, when it wasn't really easy to copy a large volume of music, and the risk was mostly just people copying a CD to a cassette for a friend, or making a mix tape for somebody. You weren't dealing with high volume copies, and you weren't dealing with anything near the ubiquity that the Internet affords, which is a large part of why the laws are so relaxed here.

    7. Re:Proudly Canadian by epp_b · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Perhaps it's that Canadian copyright law was wisely crafted with the future in mind.

    8. Re:Proudly Canadian by Again · · Score: 5, Funny

      Perhaps it's that Canadian copyright law was wisely crafted with the future in mind.

      I see that you are not familiar with our politicians.

    9. Re:Proudly Canadian by KazW · · Score: 2, Interesting

      To get back on topic, the chances are very remote, and that's the way I like it. Personally, I feel Canadian copyright law is far ahead of the US's DMCA centric attitude. The nature of copyright has to evolve with current times and technologies, allowing P2P downloads for personal use while putting a fee on MP3 players and blank media is a compromise that I see as fair

      The reason that things like file sharing are legal in Canada is specifically because Canadian copyright law *hasn't* changed. Our laws were written in the 1980's, when it wasn't really easy to copy a large volume of music, and the risk was mostly just people copying a CD to a cassette for a friend, or making a mix tape for somebody. You weren't dealing with high volume copies, and you weren't dealing with anything near the ubiquity that the Internet affords, which is a large part of why the laws are so relaxed here.

      I meant in 2007, when the RCMP officially stated their stance on P2P file sharing for personal use. Their decision for P2P and the decision to put that fee on MP3 players is a decision for current times. At least, I consider anything within the past 5-10 years fairly recent, in terms of the speed of our legislation.

      --
      Geeks don't grock information, they grep it.
    10. Re:Proudly Canadian by schon · · Score: 4, Informative

      The reason that things like file sharing are legal in Canada is specifically because Canadian copyright law *hasn't* changed.

      Actually, Canadian copyright law has been changing constantly.

      Our laws were written in the 1980's

      Incorrect. 1988 was the first major overhaul since the law was written in 1924, however there have been a bunch of updates (in 1989, 1993, 1994, 1996, 1997, 2001 and 2007) to bring it to its current state - for example, when the 1988 law was enacted, the private copying right that we now enjoy (and that this thread is about) did not exist - it was illegal to copy any music without written permission, regardless of the reason. It wasn't until the amendment in 1997 that we gained the legal right to make private copies.

  2. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 4, Informative

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  3. So... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Where are these companies when it comes to US legislation?

    1. Re:So... by coekie · · Score: 3, Insightful
      The document is mostly about the Special 301 process, but they've used the opportunity to comment on US law:
      • on DMCA notice and takedown:

        [...] the world in the image of the DMCA, a world in which millions of automated cease-and-desist requests based on computer-generated allegations automatically trigger the blocking and take down of material, including of lawfully posted material, all without any due process or any judicial involvement.

      • About DRM ("rights against circumventing TPMs"):

        [...] the desires of certain rightsholder constituencies which seek to ban activities that are permitted under the copyright laws through the backdoor of a digital technological lock.

        wrong-headed policy; [...] cripple their own industries' innovation and damage the welfare of their own consumers.

      There is nothing new to the average Slashdot reader in there; it's saying the same as many here have already ranted: DMCA is bad, DRM is not about copyright but a backdoor to gain more control over customers, and it is silly and damaging. But considering which companies this text comes from, I'd say this is some quite strong language that can not be misunderstood by US law makers.

  4. DON'T Blame Canada?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Well, you better have a pretty catchy song and dance to go with that message ...

  5. You're on the list by sakdoctor · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I vaguely remember at primary school, the use of friends/enemies lists in the ongoing process of classroom politics.

    Apparently some people never grow out of classroom politics, and go on to become actual politicians. "Canada can't come to my birthday party."

  6. Re:oblig by biryokumaru · · Score: 2, Funny

    There never was a south park reference joke so beautifully setup before this

    That's not true. If you're looking for the best South Park joke setup, the Simpsons did it.

    --
    When you're afraid to download music illegally in your own home, then the terrorists have won!
  7. Canada's IP laws are in some senses stricter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    But they've left out all of the dumb, anti-consumer portions that increasingly blight US law. How DARE they!

  8. Special 301 list ?? by phoxix · · Score: 4, Funny

    I hope the Canadians put us on a "Special Douche Bag" list

    Gotta love our ability to spit on our friends

    1. Re:Special 301 list ?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      I hope the Canadians put us on a "Special Douche Bag" list

      I'm sorry, sir, but I regret to inform you that you have been on that list for quite some time now.

      --random Canadian.

    2. Re:Special 301 list ?? by twidarkling · · Score: 5, Funny

      Canada likes America. We just think you're mostly all insane. But after putting up with Quebec for so long, that's not a big deal.

      --
      Canada: The US's more awesome sibling.
    3. Re:Special 301 list ?? by ae1294 · · Score: 3, Funny

      Canada cares for the mentally ill? It must really cost a lot of money? God forbid you ever decided to give away free health care in general...

    4. Re:Special 301 list ?? by lucidity14 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Canada likes America. We just think you're mostly all insane. But after putting up with Quebec for so long, that's not a big deal.

      Funny - most of us Quebecois would say we put up with the rest of Canada ;)

      All jokes aside, I think it must be pointed out that Quebec (alongside some political parties like the NDP) has been fighting for years against the rising "American" attitude towards copyright and culture in Ottawa. Culture being extremely important to us (it's basically the only thing left that distinguishes us from most of North America), our society and artists are extremely vocal about protecting everyone's right, both the artist's and the citizen's, equally and fairly.

      As a result, for example, the Quebec music industry is healthy and vibrant with talent, a lot of it fresh and new (think Arcade Fire, Malajube, Dumas, Rufus Wainwright, Jorane, Simple Plan, DJ Champion) and others older but well established (Leonard Cohen, Harmonium, Sam Roberts, Angèle Dubeau, Gregory Charles, Les Colocs)...

      Insane? Maybe ;) But come and attend some of Montreal's great summer fests (Jazz Fest, Francofolies, Osheaga, Just For Laughs) and you'll see insane is sometimes not that bad a thing ;)

    5. Re:Special 301 list ?? by ae1294 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yes it does cost lots of money, but we more than make up for that with the savings from our "death panels".

      What's really humorous is that we already have 'death panels' here in the US. They're called HMO's and they decide when the odds of you surviving an illness become to low to make it worth the expense of treatment. They also decide which treatments and doctors you are allowed to see...

    6. Re:Special 301 list ?? by abigor · · Score: 2, Funny

      I notice how you left Celine Dion off your list.

      The main awesome things about Quebec are QC's beautiful old city and the women. Quebecois women are the most incredible in North America.

    7. Re:Special 301 list ?? by quax · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I second this. As a German who lived in the US and now Canada (Toronto) I think I can claim informed outside observer status. My impression is that Quebec's influence pulled Canada away from the "conservative" excesses found in the states. I credit Quebec in large part for Canada feeling much more European - culturally as well as politically- than the US.

  9. Insanity. by headkase · · Score: 5, Insightful

    My personal opinion, as a Canadian, is that copyright regulation such as in the USA is insane. With that in mind I am proud of my Government for resisting the tide. There is a balance that needs to be drawn somewhere, I do not believe it is where industry in the USA would like it to be. With this in mind, let the USA go all hysterical: as the pendulum swings around with other parties such as my Government providing some balance the theory, and hope, is that it will eventually settle somewhere sane.

    --
    Shh.
    1. Re:Insanity. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      My personal opinion, as a Canadian, is that copyright regulation such as in the USA is insane.

      We disagree. They seem perfectly sane to us.

      -Disney.

    2. Re:Insanity. by RealGrouchy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      With that in mind I am proud of my Government for resisting the tide.

      Don't be too hasty. The Government would have passed draconian copyright legislation a long time ago (they've tried a few times) if it weren't for the fact that it's a minority government.

      - RG>

      --
      Hey pal, this isn't a pleasantforest, so don't waste my time with pleasantries!
    3. Re:Insanity. by Courageous · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I really don't think it's the democratic elements of a government that would lead, in this particular case, to the thing you don't like. It's the representative aspects, who are kowtowing to the corporate influences, who will do so.

      IMO,

      C//

  10. Some relevant links for Canadians by The+Archon+V2.0 · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Some of you guys probably know these already, but it's important to get them out there:

    Michael Geist's Blog - Dr. Geist is a law professor who takes a rather dim view of the constant calls to make copyright law more strict.

    The Pirate Party of Canada - a small concern now, only about 100 card-carrying members, but it's not going to get any bigger (or reach the point where it's officially a party) if people don't get involved and at least send a bit of money their way to get over the legal hurdles. ($10 membership fee).

  11. I have long felt that.... by mark-t · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ... the exemption for private use copying in Canada's copyright laws is in sore need of an upgrade. Currently only audio works enjoy such protection. I would further choose to add some additional wording the exemption so that the exemption is (in my opinion) more balanced, and people do not enjoy the benefits of the exemption without adhering to the underlying intent behind it.

    To that end, I would endorse the view that making a private copy of any copyrighted work, including time shifting, format shifting, decryption, or straight out copying, for the personal use of the person who is making the copy should *NOT* be copyright infringement, as long as the copy from which the private use copy is being made is not itself an infringing copy (or in the case where the copy from which it is made resides in a different place than Canada, nor would it be infringing on copyright under Canadian law). This exemption to copyright infringement should apply even if the copyright holder does not endorse such copying. Sharing, lending, selling, or any other way willfully distributing, giving, or providing such a private use copy to anybody else would negate this exemption, and unless they otherwise had permission from either the copyright holder or the agents that represent the copyright holder, such activity should render the person who created the copy now guilty of infringing on copyright.

    The biggest reason I would advocate such a change to the current copyright law is simply owing to an issue of feasibility to enforce. If a person has made a copy of something that is truly for their own private use, there is not even a remotely possible way that anybody else would have even known that such a copy had even been made, and so it makes no sense to have any law in place that even implicitly would seem to disallow such an occurrence. Likewise, I think it makes a lot of sense to explicitly exempt such actions from copyright infringement so that people can have clearly defined boundaries on what is permitted and what is not.

  12. Re:US influence by dryeo · · Score: 5, Interesting

    When I was younger, 40 odd years ago, I used to wonder why America was considered a bastion of freedom. Possession of certain plants were highly illegal, being a communist was illegal, kids who went to the States for a year of schooling came back with stories about having to swear allegiance to the flag every day much like in a dictatorship. Black people were finally being allowed to use the same washrooms as white people. They could with a straight face have a constitution which stated all men were equal and allowed slavery.
    America always seemed like the ultimate example of successful propaganda.

    --
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
  13. Re:US influence by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Well, first of all, the Constitution doesn't say that all men are created equal; the Declaration of Independence does. (Lots of Americans get those mixed up too.) The former is, in theory the supreme law of the land, while the latter is a document of great moral authority but no legal authority. But yes, it was written by a slaveowner, and that paradox occupied a great deal of the nation's early existence. It kind of came to a head in this little dustup a century and a half ago. Since then, we still haven't fully dealt with the consequences.

    The basic problem is, you ask ten different Americans to tell you what "freedom" means, and you'll get eleven different definitions. Some are concerned almost exclusively with economic freedom; as long as they can make money, they're happy, regardless of what else may be going on. Some focus on social freedom: who they sleep with, where (or whether) they worship, what substances they can put in their bodies. Some are concerned primarily with freedom from foreign military threats; pretty much everyone agrees this is a prerequisite for the other freedoms, but there are and always have been many who take their concern with it to fanatical extremes -- they forget that in order to defend our freedom from those who want to take it away, we must have freedom left to defend.

    And no matter what kind of freedom people are most worried about, a regrettably large number will say, in effect, "I've got my freedom, screw yours." Thus those fighting for the Confederacy, and their latter-day counterparts in white sheets and pointy hats, could claim in all seriousness that they were fighting for freedom: their freedom, and the fact that preserving their view of freedom meant denying it to large numbers of the people who lived in their society didn't bother them at all. Thus the flag could be defined as the symbol of freedom, and freedom limited to those who wished to pledge allegiance to it. Thus any act, no matter how vile, that was anti-communist could be defined as serving the interests of freedom.

    Personally, my definition of freedom includes not only my freedom to do what I want to do, but others' freedom to do what they want to do, including things that I personally have no desire to do. But this definition is far from universally accepted. I don't think this is an exclusively American problem by any means, but it does seem like we're a bit better at others at fooling ourselves into thinking we're implementing a universal definition of freedom, while picking and choosing our freedoms carefully in practice.

    --
    The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
  14. IIPA and open source software by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    I took a look in the IIPA Special 301 report for Brazil at http://www.iipa.com/rbc/2010/2010SPEC301BRAZIL.pdf, it's very instructive. I particularly appreciated the following part in page 141:

              Priority actions requested to be taken in 2010:
              - ...
              - Avoid legislation on the mandatory use of open source software by government agencies and government controlled companies.
              - ...

    Honestly, is there a justifiable link between protecting intellectual property and putting restrictions on the adoption of open source software? If people used more OSS, software piracy would drop. Maybe the IIPA believes that OSS platforms are mostly used for doing software piracy... ;-)