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NGO Networks In Haiti Cause Problems For ISPs
angry tapir sends in an article from GoodGear Guide that begins: "While the communications networks that aid groups set up quickly following the earthquake in Haiti were surely critical to rescue efforts, the new networks have had some negative effects on the local ISP community. More than a month after the earthquake devastated the island nation, local ISPs are starting to grumble about being left out of business opportunities and about how some of the temporary equipment — using spectrum without proper authorization — is interfering with their own expensive networks, causing a degradation of their services."
goes un-complained about
www.RacquetUp.org - Helping Detroit Youth
If it weren't for the temporary networks interfering with my wireless I would have had first post
Link to incident you're talking about, please?
He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
There is a larger problem to this. Those same local ISP and service providers operate on a shoestring budget for the most part, and even in the USA operators will cut back on operating costs to keep a profit. The trouble this brings is that they are not equipped to fully integrated to emergency situations. Recent hurricanes and non-natural disasters in the USA led to regulations that are simply expensive to comply with in order to be compliant with state of emergency situations. It's expensive enough to pay for 4 hour response times to outages, but pay for 24-72 hour battery backup at every remote site, and longer at key sites and the cost is nearly unrecoverable.
When huge cash injections come for emergency aid, it DOES leave the businesses out of the loop. IMO, it's the fault of the government for not stating up front that local ISP/providers will eventually benefit from the cash and infrastructure injection as part of building future emergency response preparedness.
Yes, there are of course arguments on both sides, but I'm just saying they do have a real and rational point.
Support NYCountryLawyer RIAA vs People
I didn't rtfa, so I don't know if this is analogous to donating clothes to poor countries, but in that case, the free clothes have devastated local clothes industry. There's some fundamental flaw in the system if giving people free stuff is bad for them...
Some of my favourite people are from th US; Vonnegut, Chomsky, Bill Hicks.
When did they ever ask for handouts? You're trolling, not to mention racist.
I read an interesting book on the subject, by an African woman with first hand experience with aid (Dambisa Moyo: Dead Aid - Why Aid Is Not Working and How There Is a Better Way for Africa). It explains with how sending aid to poor countries often causes more problems then it solves. If you give something for free, you ruin the part of economy that provided the same thing for money. Then when the aid stops, there are no local producers to replace it. The countries become dependent on aid.
Of course this does not apply to emergency situations like the one in Haiti, where there was no local producer to produce enough food, shelter, water... But if there are local ISPs capable of providing internet access, then the NGOs should definitely use them, and not compete with them by maintaining their own network. That would give work to the local people, which in turn helps a bit in re-establishing the Haitian economy.
Se comprende amigo? Sounds to me like the ISPs are asking for a stimulus package!
That ends with "He had a hat!"
And stop killing our ham radio operators, you goddamn savages.
One of the articles found by google said it was Dominican people who were attacked. Are you Dominican? Maybe US ham radio operators should try installing repeaters in Pakistan, Afganistan, Iraq and Iran and see how they get on.
And while I am at it, do we really need earth based repeaters in this day and age? Aren't there enough birds in the sky, especially over the Americas?
http://michaelsmith.id.au
In any crisis, the worst can come out of people who are usually held in place by the law. Just look at what happened after Katrina
Don't you know it is now both immoral and criminal to think beyond the next quarterly report?
Isn't in the USA where you could be busted by the Sheriff/FBI for setting unauthorized radio systems (for example the pringles'antenna)? I do not know what is wrong about asking people (including NGO) to abide to the laws of the country; an emergency situation may justify breaking them but after that the aim should be to return to legality.
Also, as it is posted, using the country infrastructures where available will help the country get the infrastructure they need, or are the NGO going to leave their systems for use by the Haitian people?
I do not know how many people of the USA can still have this attitude of "we are doing this for your good, so I won't care at all if you are ok with it and don't you dare protest about it". One would tell that since Irak you could have learnt something...
Why can't
There is never a disaster big enough to stop capitalist exploitation.
And stop killing our ham radio operators, you goddamn savages.
Hate to be responding to a troll, but do you really think that every one of 9 million people in Haiti was responsible for shooting at some Dominicans? Do you consider yourself a goddamned savage because some Americans commit crimes and murders too?
Negative moral value of force outweighs the positive value of good intentions.
You're trolling, not to mention racist.
I hate the anti-US-plug-in for no reason as much as the next guy, but US is not a race.
Inveneo certainly does involve local service providers in their work. In fact, that is what they are all about. I recommend that you have a look at their interesting business model.
P.S. Their "How to Deploy Long-Distance WiFi in Haiti" is a very informative read for the radio geeks among us.
P.P.S. I am a former Inveneo employee.
Sounds similar to the situation soon after the invasion of Iraq. The call for the use of local workers for example.
Nothing is being "donated to the country". At least regarding "the internets".
NGOs that are there to provide aid got their own satellite and wireless links because none of the local IPSs were operational at the moment. Nothing is being donated (to Haiti) - it is for their own operational and personal use.
Later, since Haitian internet backbone is operational, the backhaul bandwidth was donated (to the NGOs) by two local ISPs - AccessHaiti and MultiLink.
So in fact, Haitian companies are donating the bandwidth to NGOs who are donating the humanitarian aid and services to Haiti.
But, now that the local small ISPs are coming back online, they (local ISPs) find that the NGOs are quite happy with their current setup and don't really need the local wireless services - but are willing to switch, they just need more time.
They are kinda busy doing something a little more important at the moment.
Being practically the only game in town (read: the only paying customers) - local ISPs would really like to sell them their services.
But, on top of that, the wireless relays the NGOs have set up for themselves are drowning out the wireless signal of the local ISPs.
So, basically...
1 - Local ISP companies are providing the bandwidth to the relief workers for free. Which will probably change in the future.
2 - NGOs have their own equipment for the use and distributing of that bandwidth - and they are providing the humanitarian aid for free. They are willing to pay for the bandwidth but are asking for more time to switch to the local providers as they are rather busy at the moment.
3 - Local small ISPs would like to sell THEIR bandwidth (that they will buy from the ISPs mentioned under 1) to the NGOs - but they lack the capacity to do that as their wireless networks are being drowned out by the signal of the NGO's equipment.
So... it is not the case of donated food drowning out the local production.
But it is going to be, one way or the other, for a while at least. Because the local ISPs want it that way.
Cause it will take time for the local customers to be able to match the NGO's ability to buy the services of the local ISPs.
Who will then fix their prices to match the paying capabilities of the NGOs - NOT the local population.
So... in the long run, the locals will have to pay more for less longer - because NGOs can pay more and thereby they set the prices.
But in the LONGER run, when NGOs leave, locals will be left with a working ISP structure, and some money will flow into the community.
So, not quite like donating food. Or clothes.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
Now we can ship 100,000 Mexican workers to Haiti to rebuild everything. They will earn US government-subsidized wages while the Haitians--who need the money/work--relax and watch!
Oh... Sorry... That was Katrina/New Orleans.
-Todd
Omne ignotum pro magnifico.
Do we really need legs, in this day and age? Aren't there enough wheelchairs, especially in North America?
The earth-based repeater can be operated independently by the locals without reliance on the benevolence of/ability to pay money to/guarantee of friendly relations with the government of some offshore corporation. Similarly, the emergency mobile telephone infrastructure relies on the temporary benevolence of the Scandinavians, followed by global business as usual.
The popular Internet is under two decades old, the popular mobile phone network of similar age, yet people assume it will remain available and free (as in speech) to the end of time. This is daft. It is imperative that people retain the knowledge and the means to implement independent communications systems which do not require transnational corporation and government support and stability in order to continue existing.
Yes, yes we do. Satellite capacity is limited, and requires fairly expensive and advanced handsets. Good for important, long range communications. Putting up an FM / UHF repeater to serve a bunch of metropolitan two-way analog radios, or an HF antenna to serve long-range analog communications is simple, cheap, cost effective and with prepared hams a matter of hours, if not less. They've repeatedly proven to be useful after emergencies when no official communications capability has existed, or what exists has been overwhelmed.
I hate articles that use abbreviations but don't define them first!
What the hell does NGO stand for?
...we showed up with a pair of satellite dishes but all our network connections are wired. Additionally, we didn't feel we could or should rely on local ISPs for communications since we need those communications to be reliable and secure and sending a buncha people down there with no way to talk across the pond to home station didn't seem like the smartest move I've heard of.
So now the ISPs want the NGOs to shut off all the expensive hardware folks shipped down there and use local resources?
In the interest of full disclosure we do work for a GO, just not the one in Haiti.
we see things not as as they are, but as we are.
-- anais nin
I know that's considered blasphemy on /. But I think it's an excellent question. If giving food and other commodities away for free hurts other for-profit industries, I don't see why a much larger free software movement wouldn't disrupt the mainstream software industry in the same way. If OpenOffice, GIMP, et. al. ever rose to the same level (quality-wise and acceptance-wise) as Office and Photoshop, it's going to be a sad time for all those programmers and developers working at MS and Adobe who get handed a pink slip.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
I think there are two factors at work.
First, of course, being that the local ISP wants aid organizations to use them because it's profitable. That part appears to be greedy, vying for profits from someone who is trying to help your country out.
Second, and just as important, is that the aid organization is preventing the ISP from engaging in their normal business, by using equipment that interferes with the ISP's assigned and licensed frequencies. This is not greed on the part of the ISP, but simply a desire to get their business back to normal. Granted food, water, and medical supplies are much higher up on the list than restoring local Internet access, and aid organizations need to be able to coordinate their efforts, but at some point the aid organizations have to allow local businesses to resume operations, and communications are a vital key to that.
I don't have an easy solution. If the aid organization only has equipment that stomps all over the local gear, the aid organization still needs communication. But then so do the locals.
"This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
Personally speaking, as an American I was disgusted and ashamed by the behavior of certain people in New Orleans in the aftermath of Katrina. I remember when there were reports of gang bangers shooting at the National Guard and police, shooting at helicopters delivering food aid, it was fucking retarded and when I saw that being reported in foreign newspapers, yeah, I felt ashamed for America and I felt that *we* have a lot of problems. I also felt ashamed when I saw a documentary about it later and they showed these poor people walk through the water from a low-lying neighborhood to an old army base that was on higher ground... and they got turned away back into the storm... that was a disgrace.
I think that's pretty normal. If Haitians don't feel ashamed at the behavior of other Haitians, why is that? They're a community and the world sees them as a group.
By the way, NGO = Non-Governmental Organization
Pertinent info!!
This is the fundamental reason why we don't dump all of our uneaten food into starving countries. Doing so strongly devalues the local farmer's products and makes it difficult for them to buy seed and fertilizer for the next year.
We do dump food.
In the 80's, Regan re-instituted all the price controls and tariffs on sugar. Poorer countries which relied on the US for sugar sales suddenly found a giant chunk of their exports gone, and farmers switched to growing different crops.
What did we do then? Provided "assistance" food to those countries- the same crops that farmers were growing.
I'm not sure that we still "provide" food "assistance", but I know the sugar tariff remains (which protects around a thousand corporate sugar cane growers), as do hundreds of other tariffs that protect very small farming interests and hurt worldwide access to our markets.
Guess how High Fructose Corn Syrup became the predominant sweetener, by the way? Yep, the price controls from the 80's made it a much cheaper alternative because the government wasn't artificially propping up the price. Our national diet, fucked for the sake of ~1000 sugarcane farmers.
Please help metamoderate.
http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20090109
PlusFive Slashdot reader for Android. Can post comments.
yes. it's a race to take over the world in a hurry before they are totally found out.
You tool... Cause without the USA, they would have been all dead. We came to their aid, which was a waste of taxpayer money.
Witness the corporate theft of Haiti. Aided by the humanitarian NGO's, funded by "charitible" donations from the MegaBanks and agribusiness, etc.
The military of the US comes in and does the "muscle". Marines work for Monsanto and GoldmanSachs. They will shoot YOU on sight, if told.
This is how it's done boys.
Why Is The US Military Occupying Four Airports In Haiti?
Phyllis Bennis said in Huffington post that "the reality is, on the ground, U.S. military forces take charge, as the United Nations is pushed aside."
http://www.politicaltheatrics.net/2010/01/why-is-the-us-military-occupying-four-airports-in-haiti/
US Troops Pouring; Haitians Fleeing, UN Rescuers "Going Home"
General Douglas Fraser, the head of US Southern Command (SOUTHCOM), said Thursday that over 2,676 US troops were currently operating on the ground in Haiti to boost the still struggling aid effort in the aftermath of a killer quake. He said that number was expected to swell to 4,600 by the weekend, and that another 10,445 (!) were currently afloat aboard vessels offshore.
(This is roughy 33% of the US troop strength in Afghanistan)
http://www.politicaltheatrics.net/2010/01/us-troops-pouring-haitians-fleeing-un-rescuers-going-home/
Haitians dying by the thousands as US escalates military intervention
With the Haitian catastrophe now in its 10th day, it is becoming increasingly clear that the response of the Obama administration and the Pentagon, which have made military occupation of the Caribbean nation its first objective, has deepened the immense suffering of millions of injured, homeless and hungry people.
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2010/jan2010/hait-j22.shtml
"Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act." -- George Orwell
Yeah but I think that is changing. Now a cheap cell phone is the easiest way to get communicating, and amateur gear won't get that working. If the infrastructure is in place but not working then hooking up a generator may be the best thing you can do. Amateur radio operators could help if local communication infrastructure is totally destroyed but doubt that was the case in Haiti.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
Well, as long as a given cell phone tower depends on central registries of handsets and SIMs for billing, authorization and coordination between cell sites, you must not only have the backhaul between cells, but also connectivity to server farms and control systems. If you have that, fine, but if fiber is cut and the operator's data center is fubar, getting the cell network up will take a few days.
Obviously 2-way radio is very capacity limited, relies on verbal communication (packet HAM radio aside), and is a broadcast medium which limits its uses, but I maintain that because of its simplicity we'll see it being deployed for a while more.
What would be interesting as a replacement are the Tetra-style European emcomm systems which you can theoretically get up and running by just parking a few equipped police cruisers strategically, and they offer text messaging, data and encrypted communications.