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Delta Rocket Crashes In Mongolia

Posted by kdawson on from the chicken-little-was-an-optimist dept.

Dr La writes "Two metal objects, one cylindrical and a smaller round one, crashed near Buren Soum in the Tuv province of Mongolia, in an empty field, on 19 February. They are parts of an American Delta II rocket stage (nr. 35939, 2009-052C) that launched the military STSS Demo 1 & 2 satellites in September 2009. Both articles linked above say that the larger of the two objects is 7.5 meters in diameter, but in this photo it looks more like 7.5 feet. It is marked with the serial number '02728.' (The military STSS program is intended for space-based detection and tracking of missiles.) In the months leading up to the February 19 orbital decay over Mongolia, the fall of the rocket stage was followed by amateur satellite trackers. Based on their final orbit determinations just hours before the decay, the decay must have occurred near 3:32 UTC on February 19."

53 comments

  1. How do you say... by zappepcs · · Score: 2, Funny

    Sanford and Son in Mongolian?

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    1. Re:How do you say... by M1FCJ · · Score: 2, Informative

      I guess you mean "Steptoe and Son", the original.

  2. space debris by wizardforce · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    This is one of the few cases where a space tether isn't the best option for disposal of space debris as this object was much too large to burn up in the atmosphere. With electrodynamic tethers, you can de-orbit debris although I would imagine that it would be fairly difficult to control where it deorbits. This kind of debris is probably best dealt with by using a space tether to raise the orbit before the satellite becomes non-functional. Although in the case of rocket stages like the ones that apparently landed in a field, a few explosive charges to break the object into more manageable pieces before it re-enters dangerously might be in order.

    --
    Sigs are too short to say anything truly profound so read the above post instead.
    1. Re:space debris by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      You will be modded "interesting" or "insightful" simply because you are bandying around wild technical terms that make it sound like you know what you're talking about (to people who know nothing about rockets). Yet the truth is nothing you say is grounded in any kind of relationship to the real world. Except maybe blowing the thing into smaller parts. But tethers? What are you smoking?

    2. Re:space debris by wizardforce · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Here ya go. Basic EM physics. Drag a conductive wire through a magnetic field and the field induces a voltage potential in the conductor. Applying the right hand rule to the system results in the induced potential forming a magnetic field to oppose the one that created it and thus results in a drag force which acts on the conductor and ultimately causes the orbit to decay.

      --
      Sigs are too short to say anything truly profound so read the above post instead.
    3. Re:space debris by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      Deploying a tether isn't going to be easy because cables in microgravity tend to twist back into the shape they had on the spool. If you put a big weight on the end and push it away hard enough gravity will eventually pull the tether straight but overall it might be cheaper on the mass budget to use a solid rocket motor.

      If guidance on a dead vehicle is an issue you could build a simple drag brake using a big Mylar balloon. Something like the echo satellites. You need just enough gas inside to inflate an envelope. And when the gas escapes the envelope will make a pretty good drag brake anyway.

      --
      http://michaelsmith.id.au
    4. Re:space debris by wizardforce · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Deploying a tether isn't going to be easy because cables in microgravity tend to twist back into the shape they had on the spool.

      Actually a shape memory alloy wire would unfurl to a straight position when heated slightly due to a crystal phase transition in the alloy that relieves strain.

      If guidance on a dead vehicle is an issue you could build a simple drag brake using a big Mylar balloon

      I believe that that would work for relatively minor couse corrections but not so much ditching the debris into the ocean instead of the middle of a continent.

      --
      Sigs are too short to say anything truly profound so read the above post instead.
    5. Re:space debris by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Plus with the tons of space debris we have floating out there would the odds of the tether being cut not be pretty high? Sorry I can't find the link ATM but the last picture showing the amount of space debris we are currently tracking was just insane, and that doesn't count all the bullet or smaller sized pieces that have broken off of sats over the years. So wouldn't any long cord hanging around near Earth most likely end up getting hit?

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    6. Re:space debris by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      wouldn't any long cord hanging around near Earth most likely end up getting hit?

      A tether was tested from the Shuttle and it did break at some point but I thought the problem was heating. If you want to try the magnetic field trick your tether will have to carry a lot of current and heating in vacuum can be a problem.

      --
      http://michaelsmith.id.au
    7. Re:space debris by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You do understand that you failed to tie your above post and all of the ones following it to the topic of the article, right?

      It's too bad, because it could have been somewhat informative if you had deorbited your brain from whatever it is high on long enough to communicate on the same wavelength as the rest of the readers.

    8. Re:space debris by Usually+Unlucky+ · · Score: 1

      Space debris is a problem, but not THAT big of a problem. I mean think of the vast size of the earth and the vast volume of area which satellites inhabit, and then think of how little we actually put up there. Those pictures you see make every piece of debris look like they are the size of Belgium.

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      -
  3. Decay happens over a period of time by BitZtream · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Not at a precise moment in time.

    before the decay, the decay must have occurred near 3:32 UTC on February 19."

    Probably occurred near 3:25, and 3:45 too, and probably yesterday, and the day before and the day before and pretty much the entire time between when the fuel stopped producing thrust and the time it hit the ground.

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    1. Re:Decay happens over a period of time by wizardforce · · Score: 0, Redundant

      I estimate that the site of the fall is approximately 47.0 N, 105.2 E. Our
      final elset, available at the following URL, has the object passing close to
      the site within a few minutes of 03:32 UTC on Feb 19. The elements are based
      on observations by Tim Luton on Feb 18 near 23:30 UTC, and Jim Nix and Brad
      Young one rev later, on Feb 19 near 00:58 UTC.

      3:32 was the time that the object was predicted to be in the area of the field in which it crashed. Presumably the object wouldn't take too long to make its final decent (when it actually re-entered the atmosphere instead of remaining in what is essentially a decaying orbit)

      --
      Sigs are too short to say anything truly profound so read the above post instead.
  4. Not crushed - terminal velocity? by Animats · · Score: 3, Informative

    It seems surprising that the tank isn't crushed, but other tanks have come down from space without being crushed flat.

  5. Sketchy evidence? by 1+a+bee · · Score: 2, Funny
    I'm no expert in spaceships and such, so all I can go on are the linked articles. This passage from the Mongol News, however (the only article I could find that mentions anything about a Delta rocket) is not terribly trust inspiring:

    According to a team comprising specialists from defense, emergency and astrology, who inspected the object, the two objects described by local people as meteoroids, were parts of U.S delivery rocket Delta-2.

    I for one would take this with a pinch of salt. Especially if it comes from an astrologer, or from one who can't tell one from an astronomer.

    1. Re:Sketchy evidence? by MrResistor · · Score: 1

      I for one would take this with a pinch of salt. Especially if it comes from an astrologer, or from one who can't tell one from an astronomer.

      It could be that they do know the difference, but their language doesn't discriminate between the two. Chinese astrology isn't anywhere near as much concerned with stars and planets as Western astrology is.

      --
      Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
  6. Could not connect to the database server by MichaelSmith · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It seems the UB post has been slashdotted.

    The squashed thing hasn't disturbed the ground at all. I wouldn't expect a crater but a few displaced rocks would be expected. Thats what happened on Mars when the rover backshells impacted anyway. So maybe somebody dragged it to the site where the pictures were taken. It certainly looks like it came down with a hell of a thump.

    Also the sphere beside the squashed thing looks like it would have either been previously inside or attached to the larger object, or it would have rolled and bounced away. The picture looks somewhat staged for that reason.

    Definitely orbital or launcher debris though.

    --
    http://michaelsmith.id.au
    1. Re:Could not connect to the database server by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The squashed thing hasn't disturbed the ground at all. I wouldn't expect a crater but a few displaced rocks would be expected. Thats what happened on Mars when the rover backshells impacted anyway. So maybe somebody dragged it to the site where the pictures were taken. It certainly looks like it came down with a hell of a thump.

      Clearly, things that fall from space burn up or create impact craters. Things that crash land from space generally tend to be intact. The question is not what country this "satellite" came from, but which world.

    2. Re:Could not connect to the database server by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even metal bounces after a ~200 kilometer fall

    3. Re:Could not connect to the database server by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      I've been to Mongolia. In the steppes and desert areas the ground is sometimes a *very* hard surface. Also it is possible the objects bounced or rolled a few metres before coming to a stop. There's not quite enough resolution in the pictures to tell for certain, but the lower left corner of the upper photo (below where the guy is bending over to look at the debris) looks a bit like there is a shallow pit and some whitish, crushed rock. It's also February -- the ground is probably frozen. In this picture you can see patches of snow.

  7. I wonder how soon before the technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    from that rocket makes its way into Chinese appliances that we buy at Wal-mart.

    1. Re:I wonder how soon before the technology by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      I could believe that an EPROM or two might make their way to China's own space programme. I recall that the USSR once aborted a Soyuz launch on Chinese territory and had to rush to recover the vehicle.

      --
      http://michaelsmith.id.au
    2. Re:I wonder how soon before the technology by tloh · · Score: 1

      How much do you think the Mongolians would demand for the tech transfer? You do know enough about geography to be aware they are two separate sovereign countries, right?

      On the other hand, they might value the thing a little differently than one would a tech asset.

      from the article:

      According to a team comprising specialists from defense, emergency and astrology, who inspected the object....

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  8. Next US war by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    On February 19th Mongolia declared war on the US after a missile attack that left one yak dead and several others startled. On February 20th Mongolia surrendered to the US and demanded war reparations totaling 20 billion dollars as well as one yak and roughly 10 gallons of milk lost from the startled yaks.

    1. Re:Next US war by JustOK · · Score: 3, Funny

      Not money. For yaks offed, Smirnoff!

      --
      rewriting history since 2109
    2. Re:Next US war by Dunbal · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      On February 21st the United States refused to acknowledge the surrender of Mongolia, claiming that for too long yaks have been infringing on copyrights and patents owned by American cows on mooing and milk production respectively. It announced that yaks are the hallmark of rogue, terrorist nations such as Mongolia, demanded that Mongolia switch its bovines immediately to American cows which could be purchased at reasonable rates from America or it's European partners, and further demanded that Mongolia license the rights to pay the additional fee for milk production and mooing (at discounted herd rates). Additionally the Department of Homeland Security has placed all yaks on the no-fly list.

      The ball is in Mongolia's court.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    3. Re:Next US war by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That took me a second to get (hey it's late here...)
      Very clever, sir.

    4. Re:Next US war by tokul · · Score: 1

      On February 20th Mongolia surrendered to the US and demanded war reparations totaling 20 billion dollars

      They could also bill US for littering.

  9. Rocket Crashes? by Woek · · Score: 2, Informative

    That title is just a tiny bit sensationalist... I had images failed launch flashing through my mind. A final stage dropping to earth was a bit of a disappointment :-/

    1. Re:Rocket Crashes? by wizardforce · · Score: 2

      Heck what worried me was whether or not people were killed by the crash. Fortunately no one was hurt but it could have been tragic news. Most of the planet is reasonably uninhabited (ocean, desert, sparsely populated areas like siberia etc.) and so most of the time these objects won't fall into anywhere that you'd consider important like a city. Although wit hthe sheer quantity of garbage up there, I'm sure it is bound to happen at some point.

      --
      Sigs are too short to say anything truly profound so read the above post instead.
    2. Re:Rocket Crashes? by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Fortunately no one was hurt but it could have been tragic news. Most of the planet is reasonably uninhabited

      I don't know about this Delta, but some of the rockets we send up are hydrazine powered. It can take a year for somebody to die from casual hydrazine hydrate contact.

      I wonder if these rocket sections are appropriately marked with skulls and crossbones, or such markings could even be seen upon landing. Or even if any of the toxins we employ can survive re-entry.

      If something fell out of space near me I'd be sorely tempted to check it out - we can't expect most of the world's population to understand that's not always a good idea.

      --
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    3. Re:Rocket Crashes? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      citation needed. wikipedia says one person died
      6 months after contact. what's your source?

  10. Oh No! by oldhack · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    This just might bring forth the Ghingis Khan II.

    Ain't that how the Ghingis Khan Classic came about?

    --
    Fuck systemd. Fuck Redhat. Fuck Soylent, too. Wait, scratch the last one.
  11. In an empty field? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Interesting that the teaser lists that the rocket fell in an empty field. Mongolia is high ranked among the lowest population density in the world [1], and home to a large part of the Gobi Desert - it would be pretty amazing if the rocket did NOT hit an empty field there.

    As someone who has actually been there a few years back, pretty much all fields are either empty with random horses grazing, or littered with old Russian 60's farming equipment in decay, oh, and I see the websites are 1) hosted in Mongolia; 2) not surprisingly slashdotted

    (No offence against Mongolia, I love the country and the people, best wishes to all friends at the Mongolian Technical University from my stay there)

    [1] http://www.worldatlas.com/aatlas/populations/ctydensityl.htm

  12. That Sure Was A Close One! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Wow, that was a near thing! Good thing this landing occurred in this empty field, otherwise it might have.... uhhhh.... fallen in the next empty field?

  13. Oh lawd by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The military STSS program is intended for space-based detection and tracking of missiles.

    The irony.

  14. Lucky it landed somewhere remote by physburn · · Score: 1, Insightful
    Lucky it landed somewhere so remote. On day a some rocket parts will land somewhere with a high population i fear.

    ---

    Space Craft Feed @ Feed Distiller

  15. What happens next time? by HangingChad · · Score: 1

    In the months leading up to the February 19 orbital decay over Mongolia, the fall of the rocket stage was followed by amateur satellite trackers.

    And what happens when one of these drops on Beijing? Or Vancouver? Or San Francisco? I thought the flight paths were calculated so the boosters dropped in the ocean?

    I used to think where they came down was no accident. Now I'm wondering if they're just playing the odds.

    --
    That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
    1. Re:What happens next time? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm wondering if they're just playing the odds.

      Welcome to rocket science, my friend.

    2. Re:What happens next time? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, the guys who're launching rockets are really should ask them what if their rockets fall on their own heads. What would happened if that junk killed someone?

  16. Hits in Southern Africa as well... by nicc777 · · Score: 1

    A little while ago, but still interesting I think.

    --
    Need an ISP in South Africa?
  17. Obligatory by PapaBoojum · · Score: 1

    Space Junk (updated)

    she was walking all alone
    down the street in the alley
    her name was Sally
    she never saw it
    when she was hit by space junk
        in New York, Miami Beach
        heavy metal fell in Cuba
        Mongolia, Saudi Arabia
        on christmas eve said NORAD
        a Soviet Sputnik hit Africa
        India, Venezuela
        (in Texas, Kansas)
        it's falling fast Peru too
        it keeps coming
    and now i'm mad about space junk
    i'm all burned out about space junk
    oooh walk & talk about space junk
    it smashed my baby's head
    and now my Sally's dead

  18. Why didn't it burn up? by newdsfornerds · · Score: 1

    So, why didn't it burn up? Not enough velocity? Not enough mass?

    --
    Damping absorbs vibrations. Dampening is caused by moisture.
    1. Re:Why didn't it burn up? by ErikZ · · Score: 1

      I would assume "Not enough Velocity".

      --
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  19. Re: Yakov Smirnoff! by newdsfornerds · · Score: 1

    I just got it. Nice LUL!

    --
    Damping absorbs vibrations. Dampening is caused by moisture.
  20. Track the rockets! by Hoysala · · Score: 1

    Preferably through land-based detection and tracking of rockets.

  21. Re: Yakov Smirnoff! by newdsfornerds · · Score: 1

    I got it! LULS

    --
    Damping absorbs vibrations. Dampening is caused by moisture.
  22. Just happened to have a cannonball handy? by kimgkimg · · Score: 1

    What's up with the cannonball? So they just happened to carry a supply of these in the truck?

    1. Re:Just happened to have a cannonball handy? by Dr+La · · Score: 1

      It is a spherical auxiliary fuel tank.

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