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How Artificial Intelligence Is Changing Music

mbone writes "Ever wonder how Jimi Hendrix would cover Lady Gaga? Whether you do or not [I'm guessing not], you may be about to find out. Writing for Wired, Eliot Van Buskirk describes North Carolina's Zenph Sound Innovations, which takes existing recordings of musicians (deceased, for now) and models their 'musical personalities' to create new recordings, apparently to critical acclaim (PDF). The company has raised $10.7 million in funding to pursue their business plan, and hopes to branch out into, among other things, software that would let musicians jam with virtual versions of famous musicians. This work unites music with the very similar trend going on in the movies — Tron 2.0, for example, will clone the young Jeff Bridges. If this goes on, will the major labels and studios actually need musicians and actors? In the future, it could be harder to make money playing guitar with all of the competition from dead or retired artists."

27 of 261 comments (clear)

  1. roll over, beethoven, by notgm · · Score: 5, Funny

    tell Tchaikovsky the news.

    1. Re:roll over, beethoven, by wealthychef · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm a musician, but I think this is awesome. Maybe now we can get past our bizarre obsession with entertainers and start focusing on curing cancer, getting nuclear fusion working, etc.

      --
      Currently hooked on AMP
    2. Re:roll over, beethoven, by HungryHobo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      An interesting little question:

      Lets say you create an original and creative work.

      I make a program which parses it and uses it to create a new work.
      Is this a derivative work?
      what if I use as input all your creative work in aggregate and not just one piece?
      has the programmer done anything creating the tool making it's output his or does it all belong to the creator of the inputs?

      do you have any rights to the output of the mathematical function that is my program?

      Now a few years ago I would have just read the word "AI" and sort of mentally fitted a "magic creative box" labeled over it and accepted that the products of an AI could be .. well intelligent.
      Now I wonder more about the nature of creativity, design, strategy, etc....

      We like to assume that machines are nothing more than math engines but we also like to assume that we ourselves are not subject to the same rules.

      I remember trying to explain to someone who had recently learned about the halting problem that we ourselves are just as subject to its implications as any perl script.

      Ok I've gone into random musing here...

    3. Re:roll over, beethoven, by Jurily · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think the whole celebrity-obsession thing is a direct result of society breaking up at a fundamental level. Just think about it: the way humanity evolved, you had at most 200 people in your village, everyone knew everyone, and you basically spent your life together, for better or worse. There was *always* someone in common you could talk about.

      Now, you're expected to move half a continent when you hit college, then move again when you find a job, rinse and repeat. What do you talk about with random strangers (now over 90% of all your social interactions)?

    4. Re:roll over, beethoven, by localman · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Yeah, there's some real questions in there. I am going to guess you've read Hofstadter's GEB, from the sounds of it. If you haven't, you really should.

      My opinion on the matter is that both the AI's author and the original composer are doing creative work. The degree to which "credit" would be assigned to either depends on a lot of factors. Near one extreme we have a record player, which does alter the original work ever so slightly. While we appreciate record player, we don't generally credit it for its contribution to the original work. What about an EQ setup, though? Or a dynamic sonic maximizer? Or a person who does a remix? Or the AI you describe... how different from the original is its output? Since musical notions were invented long before any musician we've heard of, should we consider modern musicians highly developed systems for taking musical input (their influences) and producing new derivative works? I would argue "yes", though a musician can seem strikingly original even with all the influences going in.

      I tend to think we are more than just math engines. On our lowest level that might be it, but the brain doesn't make sense if you just look at neurons. Math is an amazing modeling system, but it is not complete. Our brains (at the higher levels) are multi-paradigm -- we may use math when it works but will find other more approximate modeling systems when it doesn't. I would grant that a complex enough AI could do the same thing. But we're not there yet. Not even close.

      I guess random musings are contagious :)

    5. Re:roll over, beethoven, by Haxamanish · · Score: 3, Informative

      What halting problem? Never assume your reader knows everything you do.

      The halting problem: it is not possible to wite a program, let's call it P, which takes another program as its input and then tell if that program will stop or go into an infinite loop.
      To understand that this is impossible, imagine you would write a shell script which calls P and passes its own argument to P. Next the shell script would enter an infinite loop if P says its input will end. If P says its input would generate an infinite loop, the shell script would end. Now run the shell script and let it pass its own source code and the source code of P itself (for all practical purposes, P and the script form together a single program) as input into P. Now you get a paradox: if the shell script ends, it goes into an infinite loop and if it goes into an infinite loop its has to end...
      I second the advise on reading Hofstadter's GEB.

  2. It's a shame, but I'm ok with it by iPhr0stByt3 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's too bad if artists can't turn their compositions into money; but at the same time, a true artist doesn't need compensation - he/she does it for the sake of art, no? What do you think?

    1. Re:It's a shame, but I'm ok with it by Steauengeglase · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I think it will be interesting when an estate tries to sue someone for producing something "in the style of" a particular dead artist. It'll totally be worth it if it gets rid of the Nickleback derivatives.

    2. Re:It's a shame, but I'm ok with it by jason.sweet · · Score: 5, Insightful

      a true artist doesn't need compensation

      Not until his mom kicks him out the basement and he has to pay for his own room and board.

    3. Re:It's a shame, but I'm ok with it by cayenne8 · · Score: 3, Funny
      "I'm all for giving credit where credit is due. If an artist is dead or retired, shouldn't their work be released into the public domain, or should a record label be able to profit in this situation?"

      Well, let's not try to make this such a black and white issues.

      Take Keith Richards for instance...people have been claiming he's been dead for years now, yet he still occasionally denies it.

      What to do in his case?

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    4. Re:It's a shame, but I'm ok with it by theheadlessrabbit · · Score: 5, Informative

      It'll totally be worth it if it gets rid of the Nickleback derivatives.

      Since all Nickleback songs sound the same, does Nickleback count as a Nickleback derivative that will also have to be gotten rid of? That would be something all music fans can hope for.

      Oh, and as a Canadian, I'd like to apologize to the rest of the world for Nickleback. We're not happy about them either. Sorry.

      --
      -I only code in BASIC.-
    5. Re:It's a shame, but I'm ok with it by hrvatska · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I don't recall the who it was, but I once heard an interview where a musician mentioned being sued by the company that bought the rights to their past songs for their new songs being too close in style to their old material. I think musician said he won the suit.

    6. Re:It's a shame, but I'm ok with it by Nick+Number · · Score: 3, Informative

      That would be my thought as well.

      Fogerty v. Zaentz

      --
      Promote proofreading. Don't mod up sloppy posts.
    7. Re:It's a shame, but I'm ok with it by natehoy · · Score: 4, Funny

      I don't know what "Zophar has Manboobs" is, but it sounds like something that desperately needs a cover. Preferably thick tarpaulin, but I'd settle for a good shirt.

      --
      "This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
  3. Hell's waiting room by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Hendrix covering Lady Gaga is what they play while you're waiting for Satan to bake up all those donuts you are about to get force fed. And it only goes downhill from there.

  4. A Novelty At Best by eldavojohn · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I'm betting these models have parameters selected by the researchers. For instance, the Rachmaninoff plays Rachmaninoff sample would probably be coded to parametize the delay between notes in order to capture the similar pacings he put in other recordings. The loudness parameterized to implement similar crescendos, sforzandos, decrescendos, etc. How would Rachmaninoff play a rallentando? No matter, just take all recordings of him playing it, statistically analyze the appropriate parameters and apply it to the synthesized notes in the piece. Those synthesized notes have come a long way in the same manner. They used to sound like pure wavelengths produced by an oscillator. Because they were. But analyze the beginning and end of piano notes struck at various force and held for various durations and you can synthesize it by analyzing the statistical aberations in the wavelengths.

    This will take you only so far, however, and for each artist parametized and 'reproduced' will require as much analysis and attention to detail on the researcher's part than had that researcher picked up their own instrument and created new music. The science will, effectively, become an art. Did it matter that Rachmaninoff's were freakishly large (sometimes looking as long as the keys themselves)? Will you be able to build the physics of those hands into your model and simulation?

    In the future, it could be harder to make money playing guitar with all of the competition from dead or retired artists.

    Oh, how humorously short sighted a statement that is. And I don't mean that as a Luddite, I mean that as a fan of the evolution of music. How would early David Bowie's growth to late David Bowie be modeled and reproduced? You'll hear guitar in both those songs. Good luck on that parameterization producing anything but garbage!

    This will be a novelty and one I look forward to enjoying it as such. But nothing more. No more a replacement for music than grand pianos were replaced by early synthesizers. You might be able to convince me at some point it will suffice (like a live piano performance may employ an electric piano) but I dare say the parameters are far too many and far too complicated.

    --
    My work here is dung.
    1. Re:A Novelty At Best by QRDeNameland · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Jimmy Hendrix was primarily a cover artist, [...]

      OK..first off..it's Jimi Hendrix...

      But "primarily a cover artist"...in what universe?

      Of his best known records:

      - "Are You Experienced?" - 17 tracks (between the US and UK releases), 16 written by Hendrix, 1 cover.

      - "Axis: Bold as Love" - 13 tracks, 12 written by Hendrix, 1 written by bassist Noel Redding, no covers.

      - "Electric Ladyland" - 16 tracks, 13 written by Hendrix, 1 written by bassist Noel Redding, 2 covers.

      - "Band of Gypsys" - 6 tracks, 4 written by Hendrix, 2 written by drummer Buddy Miles, no covers.

      - "The Cry of Love" - 10 tracks, all written by Hendrix.

      Sure...a few of his better known tracks were covers ("Hey Joe", "Wild Thing", "All Along The Watchtower"), but far more were his compositions ("Purple Haze","The WInd Cries Mary", "Foxey Lady", "Fire", "Manic Depression", "Little Wing","Voodoo Child (Slight Return)", "Crosstown Traffic") Hendrix's legacy is just as great for bring an accomplished songwriter as for being a virtuoso guitarist.

      --
      Momentarily, the need for the construction of new light will no longer exist.
  5. Jimi Hendrix + Lady Gaga? by flabbergast · · Score: 5, Funny
    "Ever wonder how Jimi Hendrix would cover Lady Gaga?"

    I think I speak for everyone when I say no, no I haven't.

  6. Copyright of Style??? by wideBlueSkies · · Score: 4, Interesting

    As cool as this tech is.. Imagine hearing how Hendrix would approach covering the likes of Zeppelin, Rush, or hell even Stanley Jordan?

    But what seems like a bad deal to me is the concept of extending copyright to 'style'. Does this mean that eventually any talented kid who manages to figure out (AKA, reverse engineer) Clapton's or Lifeson's style and sound perfectly, would be in violation of a copyright?

    So much for paying homage to your inspirations....

    --
    Huh?
  7. But the artists... by LighterShadeOfBlack · · Score: 5, Funny

    If this goes on, will the major labels and studios actually need musicians and actors? In the future, it could be harder to make money playing guitar with all of the competition from dead or retired artists.

    That's ridiculous! The studios would never let that happen. I mean after all, the MPAA and RIAA have spent the last few years fighting hard to ensure every artist keeps their God-given right to get make as much money as possible for their work. After all, it's all about the artists, right? The very suggestion that the recording/movie studios would dispense with artists at the drop of a hat if they could keep every single penny for themselves is laughable!

    --
    Spelling mistakes, grammatical errors, and stupid comments are intentional.
  8. Re:How to alienate fans by eldavojohn · · Score: 4, Interesting

    What was that? When has a CG character ever been introduced in a live action movie? I don't know, maybe you can tell us, Jar Jar.

    And yet the very CG character of Gollum in LotRs won critical acclaim (and rightfully so). And some movies have touched up actors to make them look younger so the movie can cover a larger time frame and make it look more natural. Our issue here, of course, is that there is no need for Jeff Bridges and it will be his image used in the movie. And I think some folks find that disgusting on the same level as Fred Astair hawking Dirt Devils and John Wayne slugging Coors Lights. Some folks might find it fun. Some folks might see it as a tribute. And others might say "Don't worry about it, after the generation that loves him is gone they won't be used in movies anymore." And maybe they're all correct in some way. But I believe Paul Newman didn't agree with it and made a clause in his will that it should not happen to his image. And good for him. I prefer my Paul Newman vintage Cool Hand Luke to remain vintage and I'd rather not suffer through Cool Hand Luke 2: Cooler Hander Luke, Cool Hand Luke 3: Luke's Mom's Revenge, Cool Hand Luke 4: Twenty Seven Eggs Later, etc.

    --
    My work here is dung.
  9. Re:Good music comes from PAIN. by jason.sweet · · Score: 4, Funny

    The best music comes from PAIN. The kind of PAIN that only somebody who has been to hell and back can truly understand.

    They could write the software in COBOL.

  10. Why would Jimi cover Vai? by HornWumpus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    All Vai does is play classical scales really fast.

    Jimi wouldn't bother, his music had soul.

    Vai doesn't do anything that wasn't done much better well before Jimi's time.

    Jimi didn't make versions of Vivaldi ether.

    --
    John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  11. A true artist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Letme amend that then : A true artist doesn't need compensation AFTER HIS DEATH. Nobody actually does.

  12. zenph does not play new pieces by pikine · · Score: 4, Informative
    Not to mention, currently all they do is to extract the timing of notes and the velocity of an existing performance from an old recording, and then play it using a player piano. Their technology doesn't play new pieces. From TFA:

    As things stand now, Zenph’s technology looks at actual old recordings to find out how a performer played a certain song, and is not capable of figuring out how a musician would play a new part.

    All they do is digital signal processing, not artificial intelligence.

    --
    I once had a signature.
  13. What do you call a drummer... by geoffrobinson · · Score: 3, Funny

    who broke up with his girlfriend?

    Homeless.

    --
    Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
    1. Re:What do you call a drummer... by Weaselmancer · · Score: 3, Funny

      What does a blonde do with her asshole just before sex?

      Drops him off at band practice.

      --
      Weaselmancer
      rediculous.