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Shuttle Extension & Heavy Launcher Bill Proposed

FleaPlus writes "In light of Congressional resistance to the new plans for NASA (criticized as 'radical') proposed by NASA head Charles Bolden, Sen. Hutchinson (R-TX and ranking member of the Senate committee dealing with NASA) has proposed a compromise bill. Hutchinson's bill calls for postponing the Space Shuttle's retirement until 2015, and instead of wholly canceling Constellation/Ares, it would adapt the more effective portions to a 'government-operated space transportation system,' largely inspired by the DIRECT proposal. NASA would also pursue commercial crew and cargo launches to orbit, although the bill leaves out Charles Bolden's proposal for R&D of 'game-changing' technologies for sustainable and cost-effective space exploration."

10 of 134 comments (clear)

  1. Innovation in America is dead. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Thanks to Nixon opening up relations with China in the 1970s, followed by NAFTA and other free trade agreements in the 1980s and 1990s, followed by the Republican craziness of the 2000s, we've seen several decades of American industry, R&D and education being severely damaged.

    It's no wonder that America's space initiatives have stalled, and we're stuck using technology first developed in the early 1970s. The Shuttle is the last major innovation we've seen out of America.

    Computer networking and the Internet arose in the 1960s. Computer hardware has only been incrementally improving since the 1970s (look at how early PCs are nearly identical to PCs of today in terms of the sort of hardware they use). When it comes to software, the best we have (UNIX-like technologies) date from the 1960s. OOP is a 1970s concept. Functional programming predates that by a decade.

    Most of our mobile phone and smartphone technology was initially developed in Europe, by Nokia and Ericsson. The rest was developed in Japan.

    Our American-made vehicles are nearly identical to what we had in the 1950s.

    We haven't had any new power generation methods developed since the nuclear power pioneered in the 1950s.

    Buildings and infrastructure from the 1920s boom have proven to be far more reliable and robust than anything we've built since then. Suburbia is reaching the age where the shitty 1950s homes are starting to fall apart, and homes from the 1990s are now falling apart even quicker.

    Now we see Europe, Japan and China becoming the leaders in biotech, thanks to backwards Republican thinking that punished researchers who sought to investigate stem-cell-based techniques.

    What's worse, the education system of America has become so pathetic that it can't be turned around. There aren't enough intelligent, qualified Americans between the ages of 20 and 60 who can teach our youth. Even if we could improve education immediately, there'd still be a 50-year gap consisting of people who were born and raised during the so-called "American Dark Ages" of the 1970s until now.

    These Shuttle issues are just the tip of the massive iceberg.

    1. Re:Innovation in America is dead. by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Oh, dear. And I suppose the creation of Starbucks led to the housing crisis? Correlation is _not_ causation: while Nixon did a lot of fascinating things, many good, many truly awful, it's difficult to show that the expansion of free trade with China was a bad idea. Given that China was (and is still, to some extent) a paranoid society with limited free speech and nuclear weapons, it seems well worth it to defuse their military concerns about the USA by opening trade.

      There are numerous other factors that have impeded genuine development: lobby protection of existing industries is a primary force protecting the car industry. Buildings and infrastructure from the 1920's has, for the most part, fallen apart long ago: it's exceptional structures that remain. And those exceptional structures didn't have the same budgetary limits as an "exceptional structure" now. The 1920's had a lot of spare money for investment, and over-leveraged investment encouraged to the stock market crash of 1929.

      And sadly, take a good look at exactly how far stem cell research has gone. There is not a _single major disease_ that is treated with stem cells, anywhere in the world, except as part of experiments that have monstly failed. It just hasn't worked. Not epilepsy, not Parkinson's, not diabetes.

      And the youngsters I've seeing, well, they're a mixed lot. Some are very sharp, and very educated: enough to lead quite a lot of scientific and engineering development if they could get a _job_.

    2. Re:Innovation in America is dead. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Oh, geeze. You're one of those "correlation is not causation" faggots. Now that you've gotten your clichéd saying out of the way, let's talk facts.

      FACT: There are millions of buildings and many hundreds of thousands of miles of pipeline and other infrastructure in older American cities like New York, Boston, Chicago, Philadelphia, Cleveland and Pittsburgh build in the 1920s or earlier that are much more durable than the crap thrown together today in new-growth areas like California, Texas and Florida.

      FACT: Opening up the American market to Chinese goods has destroyed America's manufacturing base, which has directly reduced America's research and innovation capabilities, all in the name of shitty Chinese-made "goods" that break after a month of moderate use.

      FACT: Researchers in European and Asian nations are making huge strides in treating a wide variety of illnesses using findings derived from stem cell research. If you're suggesting otherwise, it's only because you're ignorant about what's going on outside of America. Go read some European or Asian medical journals, or even their mainstream newspapers (that is, if you can understand anything beyond English).

      FACT: Even the best American students are damn near useless. Every year, several top American universities send some of their brightest students here to Germany to intern at the same company I work at. Out of the 120+ students I've worked with over the past five or six years, only two of them were comparable to a student coming out of a European university. These shouldn't be stupid students, either. They've majored in math, science and engineering. Some even have Masters degrees. Yet they can't do basic algebra, let alone basic calculus. We had one such student who didn't know what shape a trapezoid was! We couldn't believe it.

  2. shuttle may not make 2015 by fermion · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Here is the thing. On one hand I think the shuttles are good enough, and we should use them indefinitely. Of course, indefinitely means until one of the three remaining shuttles fail, most likely taking another crew. I don't think most people want this to happen, which is why they are being retired now that we know and have seen the consequences of some sub optimal design decisions. In effect we have a choice of giving up this year,or simply not setting a date certain. I think the later might be a reasonable decision.

    In any case, the decision must be made in terms of safety and effective spending of tax money, not politics. Those people who are going to be fired, are, after all, in conservative terms, are overpaid federal bureaucrats. Now, the people most effected by this are the people of clear lake,TX. These fine people elected Pete Olson, a fine conservative. Pete Olson does not believe in socialism. Pete Olson does not believe in extending unemployment checks, as one conservative said if you feed a stray animal the just multiply. Olson voted against a bill to help keep people in thier homes, a decision which I do not disagree with. Given this, it is clear that the only right and proper thing we must do is look at the technical side, and disregard all this fear mongering about jobs. These are allegedly technical and educated people. They will be able to find or create jobs. Unemployment in Texas is 2 points below the national average, and for professionals much lower.

    The thing to do is to look at what is best for the country, and what is best to reduce the tax burden of the American People,and limit the role of government. That is what the last election cycle clearly indicated was the will of the people. If a few people in Clear Lake have to find other jobs to achieve that goal, then maybe that is what needs to happen.

    --
    "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    1. Re:shuttle may not make 2015 by dotancohen · · Score: 2, Insightful

      For the same reason people no longer use crossbows?

      The crossbow had successors available, which displaced the crossbow gradually. I could name three crossbow replacements, each specialized in a way that the crossbow was generalized. What Shuttle replacements/successors have you?

      --
      It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
  3. Ah yes, politicians by A+nonymous+Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So much for Republican core values of small government, free enterprise, and especially the government getting out of the way of free enterprise to do a job better, cheaper, and without the stifling bureaucracy.

    At least that is what Republicans of all stripes say they stand for. In public. Officially.

    Pork always wins out, tho.

    (Note to Republicans who are incensed by this attack on their imploded view of reality: see the title of this post.)

    1. Re:Ah yes, politicians by hey! · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What makes you think that launch businesses won't be "strictly" overseen?

      What do you mean by "strict" anyway? Should oversight ever be "lax"?

      Of course not. Oversight should always be strict, but at the same time reasonable. In other words the rules should be clear, have a reasonable justification, and make provision for foreseeable hardships they might cause. Given that, violators shouldn't get a pass because regulators are "lax".

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  4. Hypocrite Republican: Texas Jobs Bill by curmudgeon99 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Those hypocrites in the Republican Party! This is nothing more than a jobs bill for Houston and the Southern states who all own most of the various NASA installations [Texas, Alabama, Florida] and so they will stand to lose when the admirable-but-currently-unaffordable NASA Launch Business is set to retire.

    I'm sure this Republican from Texas, who is basically proposing the opposite of what President Obama has proposed, is all against government waste--except when it comes to things that benefit his district.

    I love the space program. I admire most of what NASA has done. I agree with President Obama that NASA should delegate the conventional launch business to the private sector. NASA should focus on developing the technologies of the future, not ones that were invented by Goddard back in the twenties.
    Though it would be cool and exciting to see the huge Ares V rocket blast off, we cannot afford it right now. Why is that so hard for people to understand? We can afford to do research on the next generation but we should not be in the Space Truck business. Let's throw a few bones to the private sector. Let them build it cheaply and we will buy seats for our people and stuff.

  5. Nitpicks and Bill Number by OctaviusIII · · Score: 2, Insightful

    First, it was Kay Bailey Hutchison (no "n" in Hutchison). Second, the bill can be found here, on THOMAS. Although the text of the bill isn't up yet, the introducing language is up. It's bill S. 3068, if anyone cares.

    Third, this is not a good idea. If there was ever a time to grow our spaceflight industry it's now, at the inflection point. Saying that it will lose us space is just silly: who do they think we will contract with after Soyuz? Arianne? This is exactly how you win space, by spurring private sector investment in space transportation for its own purposes. Rocketry is mature enough for the start-ups, so get NASA to do things others cannot: major spaceflight research. Look at what Bigelow is doing with inflatable modules and is planning on doing going forward. If we can get such major tech in the hands of industry and provide a guaranteed market, I think we're well on our way to owning spaceflight.

    --
    What's this? Another weblog? On transit?
  6. Re:speaking of NASA by edjs · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The non-rechargeable lithium batteries are also much lighter than the NiMH or alkaline ones. They're great for hiking/camping, where you may not have regular access to electricity. And if you are dragging them up to orbit, the price difference between the battery types is probably a minor component of the cost.