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Xbox Live Now Allows Gender Expression

Last year we discussed news that an Xbox Live gamer was banned for identifying herself as a lesbian on her profile. Microsoft said at the time that nothing sexual in nature could appear in Gamertags or profiles. Now, they seem to have reconsidered their stance, and they've updated their Code of Conduct accordingly. Xbox Live General Manager Marc Whitten wrote: "[The update] will allow our members to more freely express their race, nationality, religion and sexual orientation in Gamertags and profiles. Under our previous policy, some of these expressions of self-identification were not allowed in Gamertags or profiles to prevent the use of these terms as insults or slurs. However we have since heard feedback from our customers that while the spirit of this approach was genuine, it inadvertently excluded a part of our Xbox LIVE community. This update also comes hand-in-hand with increased stringency and enforcement to prevent the misuse of these terms."

42 of 348 comments (clear)

  1. So claim to be a... by AliasMarlowe · · Score: 3, Funny

    ...transgender lesbian, and let Microsoft try to figure out what that means. They'd probably have to google it!

    --
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
    1. Re:So claim to be a... by sakdoctor · · Score: 2, Funny

      This discriminates against androgynous, polysexual, pastafarian, anti-nationalists, you insensitive clods!

    2. Re:So claim to be a... by Hurricane78 · · Score: 2, Funny

      I’ll claim to be a black Mexican lesbian far-right jew, including the appropriate profile photo.

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    3. Re:So claim to be a... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Depends on how you use the asshole.

  2. ...heard on XBox Live today. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    "That decision is like, SO GAY!"

  3. Gay rights are civil rights. by headkase · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Gay rights are the civil rights struggle of our generation. When you have two consenting adults living and loving each other and then telling them they cannot get life insurance on each other to cover their mutual home in case of tragety is bigotry. This "marriage is between a man and a woman" bit is exactly the same as "coloreds don't drink from the white fountain." I don't even happen to be gay and I can still clearly see this.

    --
    Shh.
    1. Re:Gay rights are civil rights. by Nadaka · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Just no. The arguments for gay marriage can transfer to polygamous marriage, sure. I don't really have a problem with that. But how in the hell do you extend that to marriage of objects?

    2. Re:Gay rights are civil rights. by SolidAltar · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Except polygamy hurts society, especially men in general.
      It's better for a woman to have 1/16th of a rich man than all of a poor one.

      Gay guys who just want to be with eachother doesn't hurt anyone.

      Marriage to objects or animals doesn't make sense since they're not human.

    3. Re:Gay rights are civil rights. by The+Grand+Falloon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      All the arguments for gay marriage are transferable to polygamous marriage

      I see nothing inherently wrong with polygamy. Complicated, commonly embraced by cultures that use it as a form of oppression, but it's not wrong in and of itself.

      and marriage to physical objects.

      Well, that's the stupidest fucking thing I've heard today. It's not noon yet, so there's plenty of time for a challenger to take the crown. Let's see how the day goes.

    4. Re:Gay rights are civil rights. by ascari · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I agree with you on all counts. But this really has very little to do with TFA and the Microsoft thing. After all, since when is "identifying oneself unambiguously to Microsoft marketeers" an inalienable human right? There are more important battles to fight and win for the gay community.

    5. Re:Gay rights are civil rights. by plover · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Bull crap. They're struggling for nothing then.

      In real life, I barely care about you as human. I don't want you to tell me what you do, or who you do it with. I'm simply not that interested.

      On a video game network, I'm even less interested. Don't tell me you're gay, or straight, or white, or black, or a hairdresser or a hobbit fetishist. I don't care. Either pull out the BFG and start fragging some bad guys, or stick your head in the way of my shots.

      I got enough crap in my own life to worry about. Their gender issues rank about 0.1% on my care-o-meter. The only people I care less about are the ones who hate other people based on stupid crap like this, and them I actively hate.

      --
      John
    6. Re:Gay rights are civil rights. by headkase · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That reminds me directly of a quote I read: "Don't support gay marriage? Then shut the fuck up and don't get one." You're right it doesn't need to be in your face but the issue does need to be in the face of those with that bit of evil in their hearts.

      --
      Shh.
    7. Re:Gay rights are civil rights. by Belial6 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It is even more analogous to "marriage is between two people of the same color".

    8. Re:Gay rights are civil rights. by mdwh2 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Except polygamy hurts society, especially men in general.

      Er no - his comparison is not logical, but let's not defend gay people by trying to demonise other groups.

      Certain religious groups might hurt society (although even there, I find it laughable that men are harmed - how exactly?), but there is nothing wrong in having multiple relationships, including wanting that to be recognised legally. There are many people who practice this for non-religious reasons (more generally called things like polyamory). I speak as someone who's both bi and poly.

      (I also find it ironic that, usually with marriage, doing it for religious reasons is seen as better, or even, the primary reason why marriage should be allowed. Yet for poly unions, religion is suddenly a bad reason. Which is it?

    9. Re:Gay rights are civil rights. by Voyager529 · · Score: 2, Funny

      For example, from the post below: "Gay guys who just want to be with eachother doesn't hurt anyone." This applies to marriage to inanimate objects as well.

      You can want to be with your toaster, but your toaster can't want to be with you.

      It can in Soviet Russia!

    10. Re:Gay rights are civil rights. by headkase · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You don't need to reproduce to love each other.

      --
      Shh.
    11. Re:Gay rights are civil rights. by imidan · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You may be a troll, but I think this is sort of important. In a further posting, the OP notes that the real deciding factor is consent. Consent is required for a marriage (and many other legal agreements). This is why, for example, I shouldn't be able to marry the Eiffel Tower: it is impossible for an inanimate object to offer consent. This is also a refutation of the common claim that allowing gay marriage inevitably leads to institutionalized bestiality. That's just a gross-out scare tactic. A dog or cat (or any other kind of animal) is not legally capable of consent, so there is no danger of codifying a relationship with an animal as 'marriage'.

      So, this argument would seem to permit plural marriage. I don't have a problem with that. As long as all the people in a relationship are freely, understandingly consenting to their arrangement, what's the problem with that? Yes, it causes some trouble with things like spousal medical benefits and taxes and other things that are based on single-partner relationships, but I think we can come up with ways to deal with those problems.

      There's kind of an idea in this country that we all know what marriage is, and it's this one particular thing. But is it, really? When we talk about 'protecting the institution of marriage', whose idea of the institution of marriage are we protecting? Many Catholics, for example, would say that there's really no such thing as a divorce; marriage is an eternal bond made before God, and when you swear that oath 'til death do you part, you don't get to change your mind, later. Still, about half of all marriages in the US end in divorce. It seems pretty silly for straight people to beat the 'sanctity of marriage' drum when they can't even get it right, themselves, half the time.

      The real key, in my mind, is to disassociate the legal agreement of marriage with the religious ceremony of marriage. I don't see any special reason why religious marriage should be recognized as a special institution by the government. Civil marriage contracts should be required for legal purposes, and should only be potentially coincidental to religious marriage. Why did we make the Mormons give up plural marriage? Their religion defined it as acceptable, but the majority religion in the US did not. For a country that supposedly separated church and state, we have some pretty suspiciously Christian rules in place.

      p.s. - I realize that many 'plural marriages' today are little more than excuses for disgusting men to have sex with a lot of young girls. That's not really a plural marriage, at all, because informed consent and freedom to dissolve the contract are completely absent from those situations. I absolutely don't support the practice of enslaving young girls and calling it 'marriage'.

    12. Re:Gay rights are civil rights. by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 3, Funny

      And on Battlestar Galactica!

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    13. Re:Gay rights are civil rights. by h4rm0ny · · Score: 4, Insightful


      I think what he's getting at is what the fuck does someone's orientation matter in an online game? And fairs fair, if everyone had that attitude what would be the big deal?

      --

      Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
    14. Re:Gay rights are civil rights. by Opportunist · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Umm... yes? Marriage is all about financial incentive. Or rather, about legal incentives.

      Look at it from a practical point of view. Can you have kids without marriage? Countless experiment in this area tell that indeed this is possible. Can you live under one roof out of wedlock? Again, zero problem here either. Can you do all the other things that the proponents of "hetero-marriage-only" field as a reason against gay marriage? Name one that you can't do without being married. I ask you to.

      So what's left? Inheritance, taxes and certain other rights. There is ZERO biologic reason for marriage. Proof: Any animal, and the fact that any biologic process from reproduction to child rearing works pretty well without an artificial construct like "marriage". So what's left? Social and society reasons. In other words, legal reasons.

      There is NO reason for marriage aside of social and legal reasons, hetero or gay.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    15. Re:Gay rights are civil rights. by Linzer · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The real key, in my mind, is to disassociate the legal agreement of marriage with the religious ceremony of marriage. I don't see any special reason why religious marriage should be recognized as a special institution by the government. Civil marriage contracts should be required for legal purposes, and should only be potentially coincidental to religious marriage.

      Well said. It happen that this is exactly how things work in France (and probably a bunch of other countries). Only civil marriage has legal value. Then, the catholic church choses to grant religious marriage only to couples who are already in a civil marriage, so catholics usually marry in two steps, civil wedding, then religious.

      --
      Gravitation is a theory, not a fact.
    16. Re:Gay rights are civil rights. by IgnoramusMaximus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      [CITATION_NEEDED]

      I could point you to scholarly dissertations such as these.... but why bother. The evidence is plain as day and so easy to see that even the greatest dolt could not miss it: homosexuality occurs in all naturally heterosexual species. Dogs, cats, mice, birds ... you name it. If it was all some sort of "Satan's sweet whispers to get the weak-hearted to stray from the Holy path" as the Bible-thumping boneheads would have you believe, it would only occur in humans and its prevalence would be orders of magnitude higher amongst the "Heathen non-believers (pick your Heathen religion here)" then the "pious".

    17. Re:Gay rights are civil rights. by samoanbiscuit · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I wonder if removing financial incentives might dampen many homosexuals' desire for matrimony.

      I think the incentive for marriage equality has more to do with recognition of a partner over other relatives, in situations such as end-of-life decisions, inheritance and administration/execution of estates. This still bites many same-sex couples in the ass when one partner dies, often because of the hostility of the deceased's family. This I think is much more important than the financial aspects.

    18. Re:Gay rights are civil rights. by Kerrigann · · Score: 2, Interesting

      First of all, let me state that I've read all your posts for this story, and you seem to make very cogent, logical arguments. Thank you. Even if I disagree with someone, hearing a well, thought out, rational argument is never a bad thing :)

      I'm also coming in to the conversation pretty late, but I felt I had to respond to some of your suggestions because this actually affects me personally:

      What you don't seem to realize is that everything you have argued that gay people should be allowed to have, they are allowed to have in virtually every state in the union.

      Huh? I don't get automatic visitation and am not automatically able to make medical decisions for my partner if she is hospitalized. If my spouse loses her job, we are put in federal income tax brackets as if we made twice as much as we actually do (even though I am providing for her). In my state, it is illegal for us to adopt children. It costs a great deal of money to put her on my company insurance plan, and everyone else at my company gets it for free. If she had emigrated to the US from another country, my spouse would not automatically be eligible for citizenship. If we bought a house together, my spouse would have to pay inheritance taxes on the house in order to stay in it if I died.

      Most of these things are true in most states, as far as I know.

      That being said, I see where you are coming from with your suggestion that the government should get out of the business of marriage in general. I agree that, given enough time, you could dismantle the 1,138 federal laws referencing marriage and make sure that they applied in a marriage neutral way, or eliminate them altogether.

      I'm also not necessarily against the idea that many of the rights given to married couples could be be predicated on actually raising children, but I would argue that this should apply to couples who raise adopted children also, including same sex couples who do so.

      All in all, I'd actually prefer a system that was marriage neutral, but the reality of the situation today is that being "married but not married" in a culture where marriage is embedded so deeply in the culture is complicated. Even simple things like *renting a car* are a hassle when you have to argue with three different people so that you're not charged double what a heterosexual couple would be charged (sorry, off-topic, just annoyed because it happened to me recently)

      Most people that I know that are a proponent of legalizing gay marriage are also not automatically against the idea of doing what you suggest, but just feel that it's the looong way around. How about a compromise? Legalize gay marriage now, *then* set about dismantling the national/state/local marriage system. (Hah! there's a suggestion that angers just about everyone!)

      I'm also not necessarily against the benefits for polyamorous couples and other forms of marriage, but there's one point that needs to be made here.... Choosing to participate in a polyamorous marriage vs a two person marriage is very much a choice, whereas choosing to participate in a heterosexual vs homosexual marriage is very much *not*. I am aware this assumes some pretty modern, romantic, western values here where people are not forced into marriage for the mechanical act of child bearing, but still... assuming you're not gay, could you imagine having sex with another member of the same sex? That's how much of a choice it is.

      Now, if you believe that homosexuality is not congenitally determined... I'd say that's an axiom that we're probably not going to resolve here.

    19. Re:Gay rights are civil rights. by jesset77 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Morally, I have no problem with polygomy. But when we're talking about legal contracts that bind financial assets, things can get really complicated really fast.

      Wait, what? So.. legal contracts between more than two people that bind financial aspects are by definition an intractable problem? Er.. don't most corporate charters involve more than two owners or stockholders?

      Many have said "Marriage is a contract", I think I'll buy that. So, why cannot Marriage also be a corporate charter? Your home is a residentially-flavored company. Polygamous households would just have more owners. Single people are sole-proprietorships. You can't marry your toaster in any legally binding sense since the toaster cannot legally participate in a contract.

      There, has that solved all of the slippery-slope foolishness for everybody now? I'm seriously getting sick of all the "you can't do this because of [insert boogeyman here]" arguments. It's time for people to open the god damned closet and realize there is nothing of consequence lurking there, and go the fuck back to bed with their three wives, two husbands and a cardboard cut-out of Elvis.

      --
      People willing to trade their freedom of expression for temporary entertainment deserve neither and will lose both.
  4. Sure... "Feedback from our customers" by SvnLyrBrto · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Yeah right. Try "Feedback from our lawyers".

    Even though protection is still wholly inadequate at the federal level; microsoft does business in a number of states where anti-gay discrimination is very illegal and very actionable. I don't believe for a second that they've had a sudden change of heart in the direction of equality and fairness. More likely, legal and PR informed the decision makers that they were about to be on the losing end of some pretty hefty legal action and bad press.

    --
    Imagine all the people...
  5. I'm heterosexual. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What's with the urge to tell people that you're homosexual? I don't go around telling people that I am heterosexual and usually find it inappropriate when somebody tells me their sexual orientation. What do I care? When I make a move, shoot me down when you are not interested because you're homosexual or when you're just not interested. When we work or play, I don't need to know.

    1. Re:I'm heterosexual. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      I don't get it either. I don't tell the people at work or on Xbox that i'm a pedophile.

    2. Re:I'm heterosexual. by night_flyer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      We would have a lot more to worry about if Heterosexuals were in the minority

      --


      Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
      Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
    3. Re:I'm heterosexual. by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What's with the urge to tell people that you're homosexual?

      I think it serves two purposes. First it shows you that it is a lot more common than just a 'freak occurance'. Second is that it helps others feel more comfortable about coming out. The thing to keep in mind is that a lot of homosexual people feel like they have to hide it and a good chunk of those probably have a damn good reason to do so.

      Somebody else said this, but it's worth repeating: It's for their sake, not yours.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

  6. They are participating in a virtual enclave by ph0rk · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The information isn't really for you, it is for other homosexuals.

    --
    semantics are everything!
  7. Well, duh. (Go Microsoft!) by oasisbob · · Score: 2, Informative

    Microsoft is based in Seattle. We tend to be quite liberal and supportive of civil rights out here. Hell, I had two jobs with two lesbian managers in a row -- in IT! How often does that happen?

    Microsoft learned about this the hard way in 2005: Originally opposed to a gay rights bill in Washington state, they quickly changed position.

    Said Balmer at the time:

    "After looking at the question from all sides, I've concluded that diversity in the workplace is such an important issue for our business that it should be included in our legislative agenda," Ballmer wrote. Ballmer said he did not want to "rehash the events" that led to the company taking a position of neutrality. But he did say the company was implementing changes to make sure the mistakes were not repeated.

    I read that as "our employees [probably smart, talented, and many quite senior in the company] threw a fucking fit over our ignorance."

    True to their word, in 2009 Microsoft donated $100k to support partnership rights in Washington.

    I agree with other commenters that this is a civil rights issue, and seriously doubt Microsoft will screw the pooch on gay rights ever again.

  8. Right, you're banned by mdwh2 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I got enough crap in my own life to worry about.

    Sorry, we don't care that you've "got enough crap in your own life". You're now banned from Slashdot for saying something that isn't approved of, and that no one cares about.

    Don't go whining about it - there are more important things to worry about than a Slashdot account, right?

  9. Exhibitionism? by BoppreH · · Score: 4, Interesting

    [...] it inadvertently excluded a part of our Xbox LIVE community [...]

    How come? Did gay people avoid joining because they couldn't state that they were gay?

    1. Re:Exhibitionism? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      [...] it inadvertently excluded a part of our Xbox LIVE community [...]

      How come? Did gay people avoid joining because they couldn't state that they were gay?

      If a guy complained "my wife is making me go shopping for new curtains tomorrow" nobody would blink an eye. On the other hand if a guy said "my boyfriend is making me go shopping for new curtains tomorrow" is that "stating they are gay"? Is that "exhibitionism"?

      I don't think the point is that the majority of normal, reasonable gay people want to interrupt Halo games to discuss the wicked cool anal sex they had last night - I think the point is that they don't want to have to conceal perfectly routine stuff about themselves in case it "gives them away". Also, how can you realistically deal with the annoying 11 year olds shouting "faggot" at people when the official policy is that being a homosexual is something that has to be concealed?

  10. Gender expression? by HalAtWork · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Lesbian and gay are not genders. They might imply one, but they aren't genders themselves.

  11. Re:Not even fucking close to race by headkase · · Score: 4, Informative

    They may differ in degree but the core of an ugly person is the same deep down when they enforce their prejudice on others. Might as well cut straight to that core: they have the freedom from religion too, it is for religious reasons that the debate is so heated. Christian morals are being enforced on those that obviously don't share them.

    --
    Shh.
  12. Re:Marriage as Incentive by BarryJacobsen · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Whereas, the reasons I hear in opposition of same-sex marriage are simple: traditional marriage is intended to incentivize childbearing, which is how we perpetuate our species, a practice without which our society will inevitably terminate

    If this is our intent, we could gather a lot of extra taxes from those people who are married but unable or unwilling to conceive. Why should they get the benefit when they have no intention or are unable to fulfill the requirements of the incentive?

  13. Re:Marriage as Incentive by Virak · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Analogizing racial issues to sexual preference issues is significantly problematic. If you see them as "clearly" "exactly the same" then you haven't given it sufficient thought and your expression here is demagoguery.

    What I see is that you have given sufficient thought to come up with a justification of why those people were assholes but you, holding very similar views, are actually a rather enlightened fellow. This doesn't change anything of the reality of the situation; they're both the same shit.

    Marriage is an abstraction that bridges inescapable biological facts and society's desire to channel those facts to a particular end. Historically recent romanticization of marriage in the West, for various reasons including a drive toward individualism, does not change the fact that marriage is an ancient practice intended to institutionalize reproduction, subverting basic biological drives into the reinforcement of (ostensibly patriarchal, arguably gynocentric, potentially some compromise between the two) cultural norms.

    Historically ancient origins of marriage as being related to reproduction do not change the fact that it is currently, for many people, an important part of human interactions, and denying it to those people on the basis of how things used to be is a shitty thing to do (not the mention the various legal issues that can pop up with not being married). A lot of things currently differ in purpose from their original ones, deal with it.

    In the state of Arizona, homosexual marriage was rejected on the grounds that marriage is a legitimate state approach to incentivizing childbearing and the nuclear family. And since no one is "entitled" to state incentives, marriage cannot be claimed by "right."

    They can call it a kumquat if they so please, but that won't make it one.

    Other courts have found that marriage is an individual right--to recognition of your union with someone of the opposite sex, whether you love them or not.

    And they used to say the exact same thing about marriage with regard to race (which you somehow assert this is completely different from). The argument is utter bullshit either way. Much of humanity has realized that "you are free to marry anyone--as long as they're of the same race" is a retarded thing to say, and much of it is starting to realize that replacing "race" with "sex" makes it still a retarded thing to say.

    There are sound reasons for these decisions. You don't have to like them, you don't have to agree with them, you certainly don't have to accept them, but you cannot say that this kind of discrimination is based on arbitrary hatred.

    I damn well can say that, because they are flimsy rationalizations for arbitrary hatred. Ever wonder why these people who claim gay marriage is BAD and WRONG because marriage is supposed to be about reproduction never make the same complaints about marriages where one or both of the partners incapable of reproduction? It's because they're a bunch of moralistic asshats who are just trying to hide their true motives, and failing.

    The only reasons I've ever heard for segregation boiled down to, "We don't like those people."

    No, they all boil down to the same thing arguments against gay marriage tend to boil down to: "If we let them be treated like us, the fabric of society will unravel!"

    The only reasons I've ever heard for same-sex marriage boiled down to, "We like these people."

    Really? All the ones I've heard are more along the lines of "These people are people and, as such, deserve the rights of people." Aren't strawmen so much easier to attack, though? You certainly seem to think so.

    Whereas, the reasons I hear in opposition of same-sex marriage are simple: traditional marr

  14. Re:Angry Much? by 7Prime · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Agreed. Abolish marriage as a legal contract. Allow civil unions to define legal pairings, and let individual churches choose whether or not to recognize certain "marriages". Everybody wins... ...that is, everybody except those that want to force their hangups on everyone else. I say 'fuck 'em'

    --
    Multiplayer Gaming (defined): Sitting around, discussing single-player games with my friends, at the bar.
  15. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  16. Re:He protests too much by plover · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Sorry, dimwit, you guessed wrong. I don't have a preference. I don't care what your handle is. You can call yourself FlamingQueer69 and it doesn't matter to me. Fire or be fired upon.

    It seems to bother the people running the XBox Live network, however. The whole point is they're afraid if someone tags themselves "lesbian" then the people in game will say stupid things like "you just got blown by a dyke" and that will make children cry. I figure if you tag yourself with labels that identify what you are, you are actively inviting the discussion, which includes bringing in evil people with slurs. And my whole point is "that discussion doesn't belong in the video game."

    What belongs in the video game is game context chat: "I think he's hiding behind the west tower" or "watch out, FQ69 picked up the rocket launcher." If you want to discuss what or who you are, go buy a copy of "Sexual Orientation Discussion 2010", and for all you who are so very very interested in what other people do in their bedroom time, go there and chat.

    "Don't ask, don't tell" is a great way to deal with it, mostly because the whole damn thing is irrelevant to anything outside the bedroom.

    --
    John