Professors Banning Laptops In the Lecture Hall

Pickens writes "The Washington Post reports that professors have banned laptops from their classrooms at George Washington University, American University, the College of William and Mary, and the University of Virginia, among many others, compelling students to take notes the way their parents did: on paper. A generation ago, academia embraced the laptop as the most welcome classroom innovation since the ballpoint pen, but during the past decade it has evolved into a powerful distraction as wireless Internet connections tempt students away from note-typing to e-mail, blogs, YouTube videos, sports scores, even online gaming. Even when used as glorified typewriters, laptops can turn students into witless stenographers, typing a lecture verbatim without listening or understanding. 'The breaking point for me was when I asked a student to comment on an issue, and he said, "Wait a minute, I want to open my computer,"' says David Goldfrank, a Georgetown history professor. 'And I told him, "I don't want to know what's in your computer. I want to know what's in your head."' Some students don't agree with the ban. A student wrote in the University of Denver's newspaper: 'The fact that some students misuse technology is no reason to ban it. After all, how many professors ban pens and notebooks after noticing students doodling in the margins?'"

Comments

False analogy.

[samurphy21]

Doodling with pen and paper doesn't absorb the attention to the same degree as playing Facebook games and chatting with friends via IM.

Re:False analogy.

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

Perhaps more importantly, doodling isn't nearly as distracting for those around you as video/gaming/whatever(and yes, I have seen "whatever" to include "porn").

Frankly, it isn't my problem what you are or aren't learning in class. It's either your money, in which case it is your problem; or your parent's money, in which case they can always scream at you or cut you off. If you are going to be doing substantially distracting things in the same class where I am trying to learn, though, you've just made it my problem.

When you take a primate whose visual system has been shaped by millenia of evolution in an environment where every movement in the corner of your eye is either dinner or about to make you dinner, and put them a few rows back in a class full of screens showing moving images, their attention is going to suffer, whether they like it or not.

Re:False analogy.

[Anonymous Coward]

There is so much Facebook and chat going on in my lectures. I really hate sitting behind someone that's doing it.

Re:False analogy.

[Ukab the Great]

I'm guessing that when you were in college getting a somewhat less menial job that pays somewhat more than minimum wage didn't depend on having a college degree and the folks who did go to college were actually interested in learning (I don't know this for sure. I wasn't around then).

I think a lot of people today go to class just so they can attain that job-hunting license that offers the prospect of not flipping burgers and eating ramen noodles for 30 years.

Re:False analogy.

[MrCrassic]

Remember, these are the same professors who don't understand that boredom is incredibly more powerful than it appears, and that uninspired students will find other ways to zone out of boring lectures.

Re:False analogy.

[spxero]

I echo your sentiment. My wife has recently gone back to school (she already has a 4 year degree in "business") to pursue a different career path. She continually comes home from class lamenting at the youth in her class that just don't get it. Not understanding the material is one thing, but not even trying to understand the material and then coming into class at the end of the semester asking for extra credit options is common in her new degree path of Early Childhood Development. In her opinion, they would be better off going and getting a job than wasting everybody's time since they are obviously not there to learn.

When the person who does the assignments, understands the material, and does pretty good on the tests pulls a 105+% in the class, something is wrong.

Re:False analogy.

[rtb61]

The current school generation does have a harder time maintaining focus upon a single subject. I have noticed that notebooks brought into lectures are not always used for taking notes and more often than note are used for, playing games, social networking, working on assignments for other subjects and, doing tutes (about 1 in ten are logged into the school network and have one window open on the lecture presentation notes, reference material mentioned and another window for notes) . The biggest note takers are the exercise book crowd, with an exercise book per subject.

They on the whole do represent a distraction as they often chat amongst themselves whilst playing with their notebooks, although they generally skulk around the back of the lecture theatre moderating the distraction generated. Most Lectures seem unable to establish and maintain control over the lecture environment and lack the willingness to remove disruptive elements. An alternate was to record all lectures and make the available to view so that students could 'er' fail in their own time (the trend) and, be less disruptive.

The big fail has been in changing the curriculum to make it digitally interactive, so material could be worked through in simulation, in line with the lecture, enabling the incorporation of more in depth references during the lectures and combing digital indirect tutoring during the lecture (question could be put through to lecture assistants, lecture chat in effect, without disturbing the class), also full motion digital material could be delivered and viewed on the notebook whilst notes are discussed at the lectern. It could take quite a few more years, possible decades, for teaching methods to catch up (old habits and techniques are being repeated much like qwerty versus alphabetic keyboards, regardless of how nonsensical it is).

Re:False analogy.

[J Story]

It seems to me that instructors could improve the way they deliver their lectures. Why not provide prepackaged lecture notes in advance of the class, so that students can review in advance and be ready to participate in a class discussion?

The question of laptops in class is a red herring. More likely is that poor teachers with ego issues don't like to be reminded that their lectures are boring.

I had the same problem with pen and paper, I was too busy trying to write down what was being said rather than paying attention. With a computer at least I can write quite fast, so I could spend more time listening to the words and less frantically trying to write quickly but legibly. I stopped taking notes after my first year of University, when I didn't even use any of my notes to revise. I revised using lecture notes, and very occasionally I'd use a textbook.

Re:False analogy.

[tehcyder]

Remember, these are the same professors who don't understand that boredom is incredibly more powerful than it appears, and that uninspired students will find other ways to zone out of boring lectures.

No-one cares if "uninspired" students aren't interested in the lectures (although why they bother turning up in the first place is a bit of a mystery - do you get marks just for attending lectures in the US or something?).

It's when they interfere with the people who are interested that they become a problem.

Witless stenographers?

[Thyamine]

I don't know what they think is happening, but I had the same thing happen with pencil and paper. Trying to keep up with some profs who are scribbling madly on the chalk/whiteboard, or just droning on and on. Stuff gets written down with little or no thought so it can be studied later. I'd be happier having it in a nice doc I can search while reading my books or through other pages of notes. They just don't like the fact that their audience isn't as mentally trapped if they are boring or unable to retain student attention.

Re:Witless stenographers?

[ShadowRangerRIT]

I don't know about you, but myself and a few of my friends found that even though it seemed like both ways of taking notes would trigger the witless stenographer, writing by hand actually locked the information in, while computer note-taking meant you remembered little or none of it. Maybe it's just the time lag involved; in order to keep up while taking notes by hand, you have to buffer the information, reformat it to be shorter or faster to write, then commit it to paper (yes, I was a CS major, and it infects my description of non-CS related things). If you can type at the same speed the professor is providing the information, you're not forced to look for shortcuts, so you don't do any interpretation.

Of course, the other problem is the incessant keyboard clacking. They may simply be trying to reduce the "auditory clutter" in the room. If not for loud keyboards, I couldn't care less if other students are using a computer to take notes; if I'm right and the computer is a less effective tool, that hurts them, not me.

Re:Witless stenographers?

[MichaelDelving]

Agree, for any HARD class. E.g., upper-level undergrad and grad-level theoretic courses in your (engineering)department/major. You scribble every last greek character in every equation from the board, in a desperate attempt to try to get down every jot of information (also verbal explanations). You read over your notes later to 'unpack' and store the knowledge, because you were writing so fast you were only using the short-short-term buffer of memory. Before the exam, you recopy your notes neatly, and then you magically can reproduce any arcane derivation on demand. And then again, years later, in preparation for the comprehensive exam.

Re:Witless stenographers?

[NewbieProgrammerMan]

Agree, for any HARD class. E.g., upper-level undergrad and grad-level theoretic courses in your (engineering)department/major. You scribble every last greek character in every equation from the board, in a desperate attempt to try to get down every jot of information (also verbal explanations).

I always just sat there and paid attention, without being distracted from what the lecturer was saying by furiously writing it all down. Any decent professor (i.e., one whose ego isn't wrapped up in being the sole font of information needed to learn the class material) will have chosen a textbook that has the same general content as their lecture.

I found it more useful to treat the lecture as a general introduction to the material, and then go and figure out the details by reading the text and doing sample problems. Being able to "reproduce any arcane derivation on demand" may be good for passing exams, but it's not worth shit when you come up against a real-world problem that doesn't fit neatly into the categories covered in class.

This is College

[rotide]

Seeing how this is college, I'm dumbfounded by the "nannying" going on here.

The way I see it, unless laptops as a whole are distracting to _other_ students then they are nothing more than another medium to take notes on. On the other hand, if I happen to have a laptop that makes a lot of noise (intended or not) and it is distracting the professor or other students, then I see a problem.

Re:This is College

[beakerMeep]

Indeed, the professors work for the students, not vice versa. It always perplexed me why some college profs took attendance. They are there to teach not to babysit. If some schmo wants to blow his 30 grand a year tuition playing bejeweled, what does the professor care? I mean does the professor have some high score and he's hoping to eliminate the competition for the next international bejeweled tournament? Well actually, if that's the case, I guess it's ok.

Re:This is College

[bwalling]

The way I see it, unless laptops as a whole are distracting to _other_ students then they are nothing more than another medium to take notes on. On the other hand, if I happen to have a laptop that makes a lot of noise (intended or not) and it is distracting the professor or other students, then I see a problem.

I've been going back to school to get a Master's at night. It's pretty annoying that the classroom is full of kids watching TV or movies on their laptops. While I do what I can to sit near the front so that I don't have any video playing on a screen in front of me, it's not always possible. I have to leave work to get to class, so I can't just show up early enough to get in front of the TV watching idiots.

From a purely anecdotal perspective, I'd say 60-70% of laptops in the college classroom are being used for entertainment, not note taking. At the very least, I'd like to see them confined to the back few rows of the room.

Re:This is College

[starcraftsicko]

As long as they aren't distracting other students...

I think that the point here is that in many cases, they are in fact distracting other students. This doesn't mean that other students are going to make a public complaint.

I offer this analogy: "People should be able to drive as fat as they want, wherever they want, so long as they don't endanger others." OK? But sometimes simply driving fast creates the danger. And sometimes, the driver fails to notice this. For example, I think that I don't endanger anyone when I drive 60mph through university parking lots at 9AM...

So the university (or city or whatever) could wait for complaints or deaths, or they can regulate speeds. I concede that over-regulation occurs, but is the regulation itself unjustified?

Wait....

[DavidR1991]

How someone learns is their own business, not the lecturer's. That's why it's a lecture and not a 'class'. The lecturer doesn't (or shouldn't) take personal interest in how you understand, they expect you to absorb and understand of your own accord. If you just type everything up and learn later on, that's your business.

I have this issue with some mathematics of comp-sci classes at the moment. I'm OK at maths, but I find I can't really use what I've been taught or contribute to discussion/examples until I've tried out [whatever technique/method we're learning] on my own in my own time. So I do something kind of similar to the "mindless stenography" - in the lecture at least. What I do outside of the lecture is what counts.

Re:Wait....

[Atraxen]

Do you recall ever being given a blurb in a syllabus that strongly suggests that the optimal approach to learning in a class is to:
- read the materials before class (even a cursory read will do)
- come to class to gain connections, context, and detail for the more subtle points
- study after class to do the 'heavy lifting' of mastering the details?
Following that approach may help you with the "can't really use what I've been taught or contribute to discussion/examples until I've tried out [whatever technique/method we're learning] on my own in my own time" issue.

It's a lecture, and not a class, because with large dining halls, a fleet of academic/social/athletic buses, computer labs that require constant updating, etc., most campus administrations have moved to larger-sized intro-level courses and reserve the good instructor:student ratios for higher level courses (where the effort will support their discipline's students) rather than using scarce resources on intro/gen-ed classes. That's why it's a 'lecture', and not a 'class'. However, most of your profs have made a major commitment to educating (take hard science faculty - they choose beginning salaries in the $40k-50k range, rather than $120k+). Trying to maximize your learning gains IS the prof's business, actually (in the business/career sense), along with using the rest of their hours to contribute to the field.

The good (and still energetic) faculty try to offset these large-sized classes by using approaches that try to build back in some of the in-the-moment feedback from a small-class setting - both for the students and themselves. e.g. That's one of the things we're trying to do when we have you use those 'clickers'. For many of us, it's the reason for online homework systems - not because we're lazy, as we're often portrayed, but because we see the same common mistakes over and over and these systems do an improvingly-passing job of giving feedback as you're learning. We try to spur on classroom interaction. Are we always successful? Nope - and the still-energetic faculty also have to overcome the difficulty of learning this trade (teaching the highest-level classes) IN ADDITION to being a top-tier participant in their field. (Those who can, do, those who can try to do everything well at the expense of a life and sleep, teach.)

Why do I keep referring to 'energetic' faculty? Because, as time goes on it's simply too draining to fight the room full of 50/130 students staring at their screens. Seeing solitaire cards (or worse...) reflected back throughout the room. And not interacting/participating/responding to your efforts to reclaim the small-class opportunities for them. You see, those students on their laptops, the ones tuned-out, the ones 'showing up' in body, but not caring about the class - they're the control rods in a reactor. And by inserting them in the classroom, it has the same effect - it kills any amplification you get from having many minds in a room together, and reduces the classroom into a YouTube video - but there's now actual YouTube videos in the room that have skateboarding dogs, and stoichiometry can't compete with that for many people.

So, it's a negative feedback loop - you complain that the class is pointless, so you entertain yourself instead. Blunting any efforts on the part of the prof to improve the experience for yourself and those around you, and make it NOT pointless. The prof burns more hours/energy trying to overcome this. Finally, many simply give up and give over-rehearsed slides/monologues to the large classes, and save their energy for the 10 person majors-only class that really digs in with you, and feeds off of one another to construct a deeper knowledge of the material than any of them had from the textbook alone.

Yeah, feel free to roll your eyes at this - to say that no (or not enough) profs try as hard as I'm claiming. Whatever - you can pick it apart point-by-point, and we can have a running text battle for weeks! The big idea is: this is the view p

good move

[nerdyalien]

I am a TA and I attended a math tutorial class as an observer earlier today. I was sitting in the last row. I saw one or two guys with laptop open, playing first-person shooting games.

When I attended university as a freshmen 8 years ago, laptops are still clunky and not easy to carry around like netbooks. So somewhat we were forced to take down notes by hand.

In practical lab classes like signal processing, in my day we had to manually copy the signal traces on analogue oscilloscope to the lab notebook. But now, with camera phones, its a matter of taking a snap.

I am not against new technology. But technology that hinders the education.. should be kept outside classroom!

Re:good move

[kainewynd2]

I completely agree. So far the comments here are very much what I would expect. 'Let everyone learn in their own style,' 'The Professor is an egotistical twit,' 'It's the teacher's fault for not being enthralling enough,' etc.

When it comes down to it, this isn't high school anymore and many of the topics you learn in college are NOT FUN TO LEARN. They are boring as hell, but incredibly useful. That coupled with the fact that most of the time you are half asleep and would die for something else to do and allowing a distraction like a laptop or even a cell phone becomes a really horrible idea.

Given the option of learning about international trade routes during the 18th century or playing Unreal with my slacker friends back in the dorm and it would have been an easy choice. The kicker here is that I *loved* the class, but hated that part, regardless of how important it was to the overall class.

Allowing me the option to fully tune out would have been a mistake, regardless of how much of a blessing it would have been at the time.

Re:good move

[Vanderhoth]

When it comes down to it, this isn't high school anymore and many of the topics you learn in college are NOT FUN TO LEARN. They are boring as hell, but incredibly useful. That coupled with the fact that most of the time you are half asleep and would die for something else to do and allowing a distraction like a laptop or even a cell phone becomes a really horrible idea.

Wow, did you pick the wrong area of education. Sure sometimes you have to do stuff you don't like, but there is almost always a way to make things more interesting.

As an example in my first year of CS I didn't really find linear algebra, discrete mathematics, algorithms or calculus as intense as playing WoW, but I was able to make it interesting by learning how to apply what I was learning to a homemade graphics engine... Okay, discrete mathematics wasn't fun, but it is useful.

Maybe I'm an oddity, but my interest extend outside CS so when I was given chances to take courses like Accounting, Management, Chemistry, Philosophy, Political Science, etc... I was ecstatic.

High school is boring, you're forced to take the same generic classes as everyone else that may or may not apply to your interest or hopeful profession. University is where you get to make your own choices, you choose what to be educated in and you choose the electives that can be outside your choosen field that interest you.

Re:good move

[newcastlejon]

When it comes down to it, this isn't high school anymore and many of the topics you learn in college are NOT FUN TO LEARN. They are boring as hell, but incredibly useful. That coupled with the fact that most of the time you are half asleep and would die for something else to do and allowing a distraction like a laptop or even a cell phone becomes a really horrible idea.

Speak for yourself! In high school I sat there bored because I was forced to learn about subjects that had neither practical nor any interest at all, I came to university and chose a subject that I found interesting. Calculus may have been dry and mechanics may have been (still is) difficult but they're both still interesting. If anything, the only part so far that has bored me has been the 'Professional Development' BS that businesses want us to learn: seems like everyone has to have the same "we're all special" wishy-washy, touchy-feely PHB mindset.

My attitude is if you don't find it interesting then why are you studying it? If you're doing a degree simply because you want a well-paid job out of it then you can just fuck off to the Business/Law school with the rest of them*. Art students may be a bit flakey, but at least they're there because they enjoy the subject.

*My apologies to people who are actually interested in law, but you seem to be surrounded by utter cocks and it's hard to tell you apart. (Even if you aren't wearing Ug boots or a body warmer/plaid combo) //

A novel idea: be a better teacher

[Sarten-X]

Here's a thought: Instead of banning distractions, be the distraction yourself. For centuries, teachers have been competing with distractions, including daydreamers and sleepers. Laptops and the Internet are just more things to compete with. Instead, make your lectures interesting. Vary the tone of your voice, provide practical examples, and stay away from the temptation to just stand there and talk. Yes, you're a professor. Yes, students are paying to hear your ideas. No, they are not paying to just hear your voice.

Re:A novel idea: be a better teacher

[gsslay]

College students are not kindergarten kids. Professors are not teachers.

College learning isn't fun and games, before a five minute nap and a carton of OJ. If the students are so attention-deficit that they have difficult maintaining concentration on anything that isn't presented like a shopping channel, then perhaps they should go play and leave the college learning to the grown-ups.

Re:A novel idea: be a better teacher

[Sarten-X]

It'd be nice if maturity worked that way, but it doesn't. Humans in general are easily distracted, no matter how mature they are or what kind of media you're working in. Everything is a competition for attention. Whether it's a sales pitch, a lecture, or a political debate, the presenter with the most substance AND the most interesting delivery will come out the victor. Sure, it's possible for a student to force himself to pay attention, but that will just make the class seem like a hostile environment, no less than draconian rules and bullying do the same for elementary school.

Laptop notes

[LikwidCirkel]

Laptop/tablet note taking has drastically reduced my paper load and improved the quality of my notes. If I were in any of these schools, I would take this issue as far as I possibly could.. I actually have in the past with individual professors, and I always came out the victor because there is simply no sane justification for such a policy. That said, I have a big problem with students playing games in class where I can see their screen. I've told people in the past, that if they're going to play games, at least sit in the friggin back row so no one else can see. Disruption is, and has always been a problem, but banning laptops is not the answer. I could handle blocking wi-fi in lecture theatres.. that helps just a bit.

Other students

[Rtmm]

My biggest problem with those who come to lectures just to play games/chat on facebook or what have you, is that they are distracting other students. Its fine if you don't want to learn, just don't come to class. Other students paid money to come to class and generally don't want to be distracted by someone playing counterstike or watching youtube all class.

Lecturers should not be overzealous nannys

[kaptink]

Student who want to use laptops legitimately should not be punished by those who don't. And as others have pointed out, students traditionally doodled or read books or slept so why should this be any different. I think some of the older lecturers are stuck in old ways which are inevitably counter productive. Laptops do more good than harm. Besides its up to the student to pass the exams and it is not the lecturers job to 'nanny' students.

Prof's need feedback

[Alarindris]

I'm in a band and the one thing that really makes it hard to play well, or at least enjoy playing the show, is an unresponsive crowd.

I could be totally off base here, but I'm guessing that the prof's need feedback too. If they see every face in the classroom looking emotionless at their laptops, the prof's have no idea if anyone is listening at all. Obviously it's the students' money to burn etc. etc. But it would probably make it hell to teach a class to essentially nobody.

Re:Prof's need feedback

[Asclepius99]

A lot of colleges have many of your classes (especially higher level ones) in classroom settings. And while the title of the article says "Lecture Hall" the articles say "class" and "classroom"; so we're not only talking about 100+ students, we're also taking anywhere from 15+.

Re:It's probably for the best

[jittles]

I'm going back to school for a masters and I cant STAND the students taking notes on paper. The teacher has to repeat an important definition 5 times while they slowly scribble it down and I've typed it word for word on the first go.

People will pay attention if they want and preventing me from being able to quickly take notes so that I can spend time actually thinking about what the teacher has to say isn't going to make my learning experience better.

Speaking as an old coot...

[IANAAC]

When I first went to college, the only place you could find any type of computer was in the lab, so taking notes by hand in a spiral-bound was the only option.

I went back to school 20 years later to get another degree, Tried taking notes on a laptop and went back to simple handwritten notes. Here's why: I found that I retained much more when I went back over my handwritten notes, then reorganized them on my laptop. Yes, it was more time-consuming, but I was effectively going over all the information twice and reinforcing what was taught. I was also keeping up my handwriting skills, something I believe is sorely lacking in today's youth.

I wonder how many students today just enter their notes on a laptop and forget about them until finals.

Note taking isn't stenography

[ENIGMAwastaken]

I see a lot of people commenting on how fast they need to type/write in order to take notes. I find this a little odd, because if you're taking down more information than you can easily handwrite, you're probably not taking notes properly in the first place.

The point of taking notes is to compress the information into a salient outline structure and then insert only the most important information. Just copying, verbatim, what a professor says isn't, in any real sense, "note taking". Note taking implies that you're selectively recording the parts of what the professor is saying that are most important. Just copying down everything is something else entirely, and is dreadfully inefficient, first because you can easily get the jist of what someone says without recording their exact wording, and second because it makes reviewing the notes mostly a waste of time.

They are right

[gweihir]

Taking notes on paper in real-time was the most valuable learning method during my studies. It forces you to understand what the lecturer is explaining, because you are typically to slow to copy verbatim, you you have to accurately summarize. Yes, it is stressful, but it is effort well spent.

Stop whining.

[Anonymous Coward]

The comments here are pretty appalling.

The professor's job is to educate his students. Not entertain them. By and large, he is accountable to the parents, who pay hefty tuition and expect in return that their children will come out of college having actually learned something. For the flip side of this issue, try talking to a professor about just how hard it is to get students to pay attention nowadays, and to take personal responsibility for their scholarship.

The professors are also accountable to their institutions. Their meager livelihoods depend on successfully imparting knowledge and understanding to an increasingly under-prepared and distracted student body. They have to put up with unfair job reviews and pin-headed bureaucrats, just like software developers do. And they live in fear of having their careers destroyed by anonymous slander on teacher review websites. Since the tenure system is now largely history, most professors are effectively temporary contractors, like software engineers. The big difference is that software engineers earn decent money when they have a job; professors, for the most part, do not. So signing up for a life of teaching is a commitment to a life of frustration, fear, and poverty. Is it any wonder there are so many questionable teachers out there?

So I have an alternate proposal for you. How about acknowledging the fact that learning is hard work, frequently tedious, and the last thing students need is a computer on their desks to distract them during lectures? How about admitting that you do actually take frequent breaks to check Facebook, email, CNN, or whatever during class? How about facing the fact that the human brain is physically incapable of multi-tasking, and every little distraction significantly degrades your ability to absorb information?

Children, pay attention. Someone paid to send you to college. You chose freely to walk into that lecture hall. Now you owe your professor the courtesy and respect to pay attention to his lecture without dicking around on your laptop computer. It is the professor's job to determine the manner of instruction in his classroom. If he deems, quite reasonably, that students will be more engaged and focused by taking notes using pen and paper, then you, as students, should respectfully comply. If you have a disability that prevents you from taking notes by hand, surely you can discuss it with the teacher and obtain an exception. If you disagree with the policy, don't take the class. And if the class is required and you still feel that strongly about it, by all means vote with your feet and your tuition money by choosing another college.

Re:First Post

[xaxa]

If they wanna play WoW during class they should be allowed, as long as they don't disturb the ones who want to learn.

Why? They will almost always be disturbing people (anyone behind them, and anyone that can hear their computer's fans or keyboard/mouse presses). if they want to play WoW they can go to the common room, or just stay at home.

Learn by intraction

[realsilly]

The problem or problems with laptops is that they are distracting. Even if someone is truely typing notes and doing it in a way that summarizes the lecture, for other people sitting near, seeing a display screen or hearing clicking can be vastly distracting.

While it is true, people learn in different ways, people need to be able to learn with out a monitor in their face. I fear one reason that students are opposed to this is simply because they don't know how to write using pen and paper. It has been stated in past Slashdot articles that the art of writing is dying. The thing about writing that people don't get today is that because we write slower than we listen, we force ourselves to remember what the professors said. If we miss what was stated, we asked for the statement to be revistied or repeated, thus adding to the natural way people learn and comprehend.

Some other posted suggested that the professor give the students the notes, well I almost spit my coffee out when I read that. Does not every class have a book that goes with it? I know I had a book for each class I took in college. Students are already expected to read before coming to class, and I suspect the majority of students rarely crack the books before the lessons, but rather only to cram for the exams.

College isn't about making your life easy. It is a place for higher education. It is a place for one to challenge themselves to learn and take in all this wonderful new information. Classroom discussions with professors are the ones students most remember and are very informative when people get involved. The purpose these professors have in mind is for students to interact more. Teaching isn't about spewing out a bunch of notest to students it is about exciting them and teaching them and prompting them to think outside of the box and explore the subject matter at hand.

Close those notebooks and listen. You'll be amazed at how much more you'll comprehend and take in, I promise....

Ban laptops or jam the Wi-Fi

[illumnatLA]

20-some years ago, I started my bachelor's degree at Ohio University. I ended up in Los Angeles working in the film & TV business as an editor where they really don't care if you have a degree or not.

Fast forward to now... Economy crash, writers' strike, production slow down... so I decide use that as an opportunity to return to college to finally finish a bachelor's degree in Visual Effects.

The classes are held in computer labs and because the systems are used for many different kinds of classes including web design and as generic open labs, they are connected to the internet.

There is nothing as annoying and distracting as someone sitting there working on their Farmville while the instructor is lecturing or while we are supposedly critiquing each others work. It leads to the instructor having to go over simple concepts multiple times due to students not paying attention which really pisses me off as it's wasting my time & money... Mommy & daddy aren't paying for my college classes... I am. We have a limited amount of time as it is... I want to get my money's worth by getting in as many concepts as possible--nott going over the same thing over and over and over because some idiot was tending to his crops.

Now chances are, these idiots who aren't paying attention in class would've found ways to not pay attention in class back in the pre-WiFi internet days, but for the most part, they would've been less distracting to other students who did want to pay attention. (They'd be doodling in a notebook or just sleeping.) If they were doing something that was distracting to other students, it would be much easier for an instructor to monitor and deal with... 'Take those headphones off,' 'stop talking back there,' etc.

These days, the instructor has a bunch of laptop lids pointed in their direction and the students could be doing anything from dutifully taking notes to running their virtual mob to reading Slashdot.

The point I'm eventually getting around to making is that these sorts of distractions that having full internet access in the classroom causes is unfair to the students who do want to pay attention.

I really don't give a shit if someone wants to waste their time and (parents') money by not paying attention in the classroom... but I get royally pissed when it wastes my time and my money.

Personally, if I was teaching I would have a policy in place where first time caught on the internet during a lecture or critique would get a warning, second time... auto fail.

But... I digress...

Re:Ban laptops or jam the Wi-Fi

[Anonymous Coward]

How about you stop looking at other people's screens and start paying attention to your own damn self. Listen to the lecture, be the first to respond that you know what's going on (so the teacher will move on), and mind your own business.

I am a sort of person that can't learn unless I'm fidgeting with something. The best way for me to do that and learn concepts is to do something mind-numbing during the lecture like play Collapse on my cell phone. I play the game to occupy certain parts of my brain while the rest of it is open to listen to the lecture. It looks like I'm not paying attention at all, but in reality I'm learning quite well. I'll often have to pause my game to ask or answer a question. It works for me.

It is NEVER appropriate to ban things just because they are not working for you. For others, they may be very important to the learning process. Of course some people are just fucking around, but that's where minding your own business comes into play.

Re:Ban laptops or jam the Wi-Fi

[illumnatLA]

I don't know that removing the laptops would necessarily help. My gf is in school for nursing and she complains a lot about people who are slow to understand or ask "stupid" questions -- i.e. questions that were already covered during that class, or were covered in the readings (that were assigned to be completed before that class).

True... there is no cure for stupidity!

Another prof's take on this

[bradley13]

I'm also a prof, and here's my take on it... I give lectures in a couple of different majors. The CS students all bring their laptops, the business students never do, and there are some some classes in between.

First off, I do not require attendance. In fact, I usually explicitly say: "if you want to read your email, play games, etc, please do not come to class". If you're in my class, I want you there because you intend to pay attention to the lecture.

Alarindris (in an earlier post) made a really good point: to make a lecture interesting, you need to be able to interact with the class. If everyone is heads down in their laptops, and asking them a question causes them to look up with an expression of "huh? what's going on?" - well, there is just no way to make the lecture work. Over the years, I have had a couple of groups like this - it is really, really awful.

Regarding note-taking: I have never seen a student take notes on a computer. Mostly they load up the slides I've provided (which contain some, but not nearly all of the content). What goes up on the board is developed interactively with the class, and inevitably involves pictures and diagrams - there is just no reasonable way to take notes like that on the computer.

A few students complain that I don't provide complete material to download - thus making note taking unnecessary. These are the same students who expect to be handed an "A" on the final, without actually having to study or do anything difficult. The point of a lecture is for the professor to ensure that the students understand a topic. The material presented changes based on feedback from the class. "Is that clear, or do we need another example here?" If another example, or an alternative explanation is needed, you make one up on the spot. You go faster or slower, show more or less detail, use fewer or more examples based on the students' comprehension of what you are talking about.

If you find yourself talking to the tops of everyone's heads, you have no source of feedback. Did they understand? Are they even listening? One poster on this thread said that it's the prof's own fault if the students aren't interested. The other side is: if the students don't give any feedback, the lecture is guaranteed to be boring - because there is no way to tailor the presentation to the audience.

If you have a really horrible prof (yes, I know some of those), don't take the class. If you have to take the class, save yourself the boredom and don't go to lectures. If attendance is required, life's a bitch, deal with it. Consider it practice for those really exciting business meetings you'll be attending throughout your professional life: if you don't pay attention when the boss is talking, you'll be walking.

All of which is a long way of saying: laptops in lectures are really pretty useless for the students. I wouldn't bother to ban them - too much fuss - but I can and do ban any sort of distracting activities.

Re:First Post

[Anonymous Coward]

We welcome you, member of the entitled generation. If you want to play games then there is no point in going to class, and if you think you should be able to ignore the rules set forth by your professor then you've got a serious problem with understanding reality.

You're also a total moron if you think playing WoW in class doesn't disturb the people around you who want to learn. Doing that makes you a distraction and you've got to be one hell of an egotistical asshole to think you should have the right to do that.

Here's a hint for you for when you grow up. The world has rules. People who are in positions of authority over you get to set those rules. One day when you are in a position of authority you will get to set your own rules too. If you're a student in a classroom then you are not in a position of authority and if you don't like the rules then you need to leave.

Fail

[GerryHattrick]

If you give the sort of 'lecture' where notes on a laptop (or even in pencil) are an adequate result, you don't deserve your Chair. A proper lecture motivates, enthuses, explains, gives insights into creativity - no notes can ever do justice to that. So: no laptops please, nor... lecturers backs turned while they fill space with impenetrable garbled equations. You can get that stuff in your own time from standard references. On the topic, I want(ed) to know what makes that particular Professor tick. The best of them used eye-contact - to a girl at the top-back of the lecture-theater: "do you like being alone?"

One solution NEVER fits all

[Anonymous Coward]

In other words, quit fucking banning things just because it doesn't work for you! Some people use their laptops for distractions. For others, it is the greatest tool ever for learning and retaining information. Just because some idiot pissed you off by not learning the material (that he's paying you to ignore) doesn't mean you need to ban EVERYONE from using such a fantastic tool.

One size NEVER fits all. I really wish people would quit trying to push all the square pegs into the round holes. It just doesn't work.

Re:First Post

[BobMcD]

Total and absolute BS. Most college educations are completely worthless. Psychology, French Lit, History?

While the education is likely worthless, the degree is not. Try getting a job without one. It isn't easy, and as a college drop-out, I should know.

If you'd like to label my comment as 'absolute BS', I'd request you back that up. Find me the high school guidance counselor that recommends skipping college. Find me the recruiter who doesn't even ask if you have a degree.

I'd say most people would be much better off financially if they skipped college and used the money that would've gone into that somewhere else.

You're delusional. First they'll have a much tougher time finding a job. Second, and most importantly, it isn't real money. People get these things called 'student loans'. It isn't as if you can get those and invest the funds into the stock market. You kind of need to be a student. Third, if you're referring to investing the money paid out for Ramen, I highly doubt this would add up to anything close to the job-seekers-permit they would have otherwise received.

Or do you really think people can still pay cash for college?

Now take fields like engineering, law, computer science, and so on, those are totally great fields of study. But if you can't be bothered to pay attention during class then society would probably be better off with you not graduating in the first place. I don't want to drive on a bridge designed by someone who had to be made to stay off Facebook by his mommy professor during class.

Well you'd want to take that up with the education system, as these people should not pass. Yet they do.

College isn't what it used to be.

you don't learn much in college, except...

[spineboy]

You don't learn much in college, except HOW to learn. The learning comes in grad school. Thus it's not the French degree that's important, but the completion of the degree proves that you have the skills/desires to complete the degree.

As far as them being totally worthless, my one semester of French in college has helped me talk to Haitian immigrants to diagnose their medical problems, so I say it is. Calling it totally worthless is like calling basic science research totally useless -there is something one can do with the basics of a good, solid education, regardless of what you do with it later.

Try letting the students fail!

[Anonymous Coward]

Really? While I understand the Professors' arguments regarding the distractions, there's an easy to fix the problem. FAIL THE STUDENTS! If they don't pass a course because they couldn't take notes on their computers or retain knowledge, then don't pass the student. Period. If the student can't pass the course, then he/she might think again when accessing Facebook while in class. And, who knows, the student may learn a little personal responsibility after the 2nd, 3rd or 4th time repeating the same class. And if not, so what? Sounds like a new revenue stream for the school.

Re:another way to attack this

[TeethWhitener]

If students are able to not pay attention, and still do well (enough) in classes, then make the classes more difficult.

Two words: grade inflation.

surfing

[Anonymous Coward]

Surfing the web in class not only destroys any chance of you learning anything in class, it distracts everyone around you.

3.8/4.0 never brought my macbook to class

Ban teaching by powerpoint before you ban laptops

[jdbuz]

I've been out of academia since '95 but back then professors wrote on the board (with the occasional overhead graph) and students wrote on paper. My girlfriend recently went back to school and almost every class is taught by powerpoint presentation which nearly begs the students to bring in their laptops. If you want to ban the laptop then ban the lazy practice of teaching by powerpoint.