XML Co-Founder Joins Google, Blasts iPhone

XML co-founder Tim Bray has taken the job of 'Developer Advocate' at Google. Don't other companies call that position 'Evangelist?' Because he sure doesn't mince words against the iPhone in his first sermon: 'It's a sterile Disney-fied walled garden surrounded by sharp-toothed lawyers. The people who create the apps serve at the landlord's pleasure and fear his anger.

Comments

To be fair

[JanneM]

This is not a work-related "convenient opinion" of his. He's been critical of Apple's walled-garden approach to development for years, and an Android advocate since he got an Android phone in 2008 (see http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2008/12/18/Android-Diary for his chronicles using and programming it).

Re:To be fair

[GlassHeart]

I'm not usually a defender of the "let the market sort everything out" mentality; but by the time the court ruled, Linux already had some pretty useable desktops, and OS X was not far behind.

Microsoft was enough of a power to be able to dictate to OEMs that they may not pre-install Netscape, simply by threatening to charge different prices for Windows licenses. If that's not a monopoly, it's pretty damn close, because these OEMs did not tell Microsoft to fuck off. The fact is, they played ball and squished Netscape as instructed.

MacOS X is irrelevant to the discussion, because it ran on PowerPC chips, because Apple wasn't willing to license it anyway, and also because the antitrust trial started in 1998 - some two years before the MacOS X Public Beta. As for Linux, GNOME's first major release was March 1999, entirely irrelevant to this discussion. KDE was first released in July of 1998, also irrelevant. So exactly which "pretty usable desktops" were you referring to?

I remember joking at the time, "so an iMac's not a Personal Computer, eh?".

The trial started in May 1998, while the iMac G3 that did not ship until August 1998. The iMac is also irrelevant to the Microsoft antitrust case.

Lack of credibility

[Danborg]

Tim Bray bought his *first* smartphone in December 2008 and declared it the best he's ever owned:

http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2008/12/...

Maybe if he had tried 3 or 4 other phones and then settled on Android, his opinion would have weight.
This guy had never owned a "fancy phone" until 15 months ago and now he's an expert? Seriously Google, is this the best you can do?

Re:Lack of credibility

[bigstrat2003]

Read his statement a bit more closely. He obviously recognizes his lack of basis for comparison, his wording says so: "I've never actually had [a smartphone], SO this is by far the nicest". He may have used other smartphones (he doesn't really say), but his wording clearly is meant to convey that he's choosing his Android phone as "best I've owned" by default.

A critic, but not direct opponent of swpats

[H4x0r Jim Duggan]

Tim's critical of software patents, but his position is that there's just an implimentation problem - with good tweaking it could work. Kinda disappointing that he's not pushing for abolition. Surprising too given his experience in web dev and XML. Related info:

• Tim Bray on software patents
• Google
• Webpage and web service patents
• XML patents

swpat.org is a publicly-editable wiki - help in expanding this info would be very welcome and useful.

Re:Surprising?

[VirexEye]

Technically RIM still holds the biggest smart phone market share with the iPhone in 2nd place.

Re:The bird still sings in its gilded cage

[schon]

Another way to look at it is that iPhone provides a solid single platform that developers can concentrate on features rather than UI and input differences.

Yes, because if Apple allowed pictures of women in bikinis, uncensored dictionaries or mentioning the name of a competitor on the iPhone, the "solid single platform" would fragment into a dozen incompatible versions, right?

correcting myself: he's turned against them

[H4x0r Jim Duggan]

While verifying my sources just now, I found that Tim is, since February 2010, against software patents. Glad to hear it.

I've updated the wiki.

Re:Surprising?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm pretty sure you mean Nokia, not RIM.

No, he said smartphones. A smartphone is defined as being a device with few enough sales that the iphone looks like a serious competitor in comparison. Nokia do not make smartphones.

Re:Opinion of Google is Changing...

[hedwards]

Umm, Apple has been forcing people to decide for a really long time. I take it you didn't notice that the ITMS for a really long time didn't support any MP3 player that wasn't a variation of iPod. They didn't change the DRM scheme until after they had secured a strong monopoly position in that market space.

But I'm sure that's so much better than actively locking people out of your store while signing things up as exclusive.

Re:Opinion of Google is Changing...

[tabdelgawad]

You're missing context. See here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/14/technology/14brawl.html

Apparently, Apple considered Google's Android a stab in the back. So now Google's CEO (Eric Schmidt) is off Apple's board of directors and Apple is suing HTC for patent infringement (Google is not named, but is the indirect target).

I'm surprised this whole fight hasn't gotten more coverage on Slashdot. In any case, I'm squarely in Google's corner on this issue. We need Android to succeed to preserve competition and openness in the smart phone and tablet/e-reader markets.

Re:What are they doing again?

[Kitkoan]

Quicktime today is h.264 video with AAC audio (Sorensen is gone).

h.264 is a licensed technology owned by MPEG LA. While it did go free for a few more years for usage, it was set to lose that until about a month ago and is still a licensed technology that can be used to lock.

iTMS files are AAC audio and fairplay is gone. Fairplay was easy to remove by yourself and Apple documented how to do so.

Again, AAC audio is not an open technology, it's a licensed one. The license is quite a easy one to stream and distribute (free), but to use the actual codec itself requires a company to obtain a license. This is why FOSS FAAC and FAAD software projects are only distributed in source code form only to avoid the patent issues. As for Fairplay, it was Apples way of keeping any songs bought from iTunes to only play on iPods. No other MP3 player was able to read the files helping Apple keep a monopoly, and is still being fought under the Apple iPod iTunes Antitrust Litigation Not to mention Fairplay is still being used by Apple. Also couldn't find anything on the Apple.com site on how to remove Fairplay from anything.

iTunes works with anything as long as anything actually knows how to interact with iTunes (the fact Palm doesn't understand how is Palm's failure). Some vendors even get sync functionality (many Motorola devices, following the ROKR partnership), not just the iPod as you say.

iTunes works as long as Apple says it's ok, not if anything actually knows how to interact with iTunes. Palm does know how and kept programming to make it work. It was Apple that kept altering iTunes to purposely break that connection to wall out Palm since they didn't want to jump through Apple's hoops.

What was your point again ? Oh right, outright lies.

No, that was your point to make outright lies.

Re:Surprising?

[daveime]

So the Nokia N95 and E90 weren't smartphones ? Funny, because I could do stuff with those phones 5 years ago that I *still* can't do with an iPhone.

Re:XML vs iPhone

[JackieBrown]

Well that explains why proprietary alternatives to XML like JSON or YAML are so much better!

JSON is not propietary.
http://www.json.org/license.html

Nor is YAML
http://www.yaml.de/en/license/license-conditions.html

Or is there a woosh here that I am missing?

Re:XML vs iPhone

[Tycho]

Try asbestos insulation.

Head, desk. Desk, head. HEADDESK!

95% (literally) of the asbestos ever used is of a type known as crysotile. Crysotile fibers are hollow and fibers shorter than 1.5 inches are quickly physically broken up in the lungs by the immune system and excreted. Fibers longer than 1.5 inches can get stuck in the bronchii and are carcinogenic. However, no processed crysotile with fibers that long are sold anymore. Only smaller fiber sizes are sold currently. On the other hand, the other types of asbestos are amphiboles and have a totally different fiber structure that is solid and that has ends that will flake off into microscopic pieces are are carcinogenic. It may be good to mention at this point that natural asbestos deposits are common and asbestos fibers of both types are probably something you inhale on a regular basis. On the other hand, if you live in the US and have vermiculite insulation in your home, and depending on the age tremolite asbestos, an amphibole, may be present. Surprisingly, asbestos is not like a toxic or radioactive substance and is safer if left alone, assuming it is in an enclosed space, like an attic, that is left undisturbed. Note, this changes is vermiculite insulation end up in your living room. When and if asbestos needs to be removed, hire trained professionals with the proper equipment.

Also, fiberglass insulation isn't necessarily any better for your lungs than asbestos.

Re:Err, no.

[u38cg]

No, the marketing looks like it speaks to young, fashionable types. That makes it appealling to those of us who are not young and fashionable. All the actual young fashionable types I know are too busy drinking, smoking and having sex to give a toss about Apple.