Professor Ditches Grades For XP System

schliz writes "Like in World of Warcraft, students of Indiana University's game design classes start as Level 1 avatars with 0 XP, and progress by completing quests solo, as guilds, or in 'pick up groups.' Course coordinator Lee Sheldon says students are responding with 'far greater enthusiasm,' and many specifics of game design could also be directly applied to the workforce. These included: clearly defining goals for workers; providing incremental rewards; and balancing effort and reward."

Comments

He should have stuck with the 2000 system

[BadAnalogyGuy]

While there are definite benefits to the XP system, it's a very large departure from the stable and useful 2000 system.

I predict the next step will be a major overhaul of the evaluation system which will be widely hailed as a vast improvement on paper but turn out to be a huge mess and pleasing to no one.

Re:He should have stuck with the 2000 system

[ircmaxell]

I don't care that Newton went through 20 pages of integrals to discover that KE == 1/2mv^2.

Actually, I disagree with you there... I think it's VERY important to understand WHERE those equations come from and how to derive them (Especially for an engineer). If you don't know the roots of it, how can you ever know its limitations? I'll give you an example... You know that F=ma. But why should you need to know how it's derived? Well, it's derived from F= d(mv)/dt... So F=ma is only true if mass is constant with respect to time (So it doesn't work in cases of a rocket, airplane, top fuel dragster, etc)... That's easily seen from the derivation, but not trivial to see from dimensional analysis or the F=ma question itself. Without understanding the derivation, how can you ever hope to UNDERSTAND the equation? Sure, you can use it, but then how can you possibly KNOW if you pick the right one? And especially in the case of engineering, where people's lives can literally be at stake when choosing an equation, I sure as hell hope you understand the equation and not just know how to use it...

Re:He should have stuck with the 2000 system

[StuartHankins]

My gods, man, what are you doing? Stop it! Stop it!

We cannot have intelligent discussion occurring here and I'm afraid your post is way too insightful for this place. Just think of the children! Before long they will get these funny ideas in their heads and then it's off to school or heaven forbid it, a career! Of all the shameful things! Then look what you've done!

Remember this is a silly place for silly comments, such as "In Soviet Russia, equations calculate you", or "it's equations, all the way down". If you have a pro- or anti- Linux stance now is the time to make it known. Kindly do us a favor and think before you post, but not too much.

All right, now get on with it!

Re:He should have stuck with the 2000 system

[Sally Forth]

The problem that I have with core classes is that it seems to be geared towards making up for what was once covered in highschool.

In elementary school, we should be learning our tools. In highschool, we should be learning how everything fits together. A highschool graduate should know how to write a research paper, how to give a simple speech, how to do basic algebra, and how a bill becomes a law. A highschool graduate should be able to tell you Newton's Laws, balance a chemical equation, and name the primary organs in the body.

People keep insisting that college is the point at which you specialize, but the typical four-year degree has less than half of its courses actually in your major. My university actually had a mandatory requirement in the first two years for gym class! C'mon, people, we're adults! We should be able to choose whether or not we want to get slammed around the basketball court One More Time!

Basically, I am not arguing against the idea of core classes. I am arguing against the notion that we must continue to emphasize them through college. A classic core education shouldn't take 14-16 years and you should be able to spend more than 6 months learning how to do what you plan to spend the rest of your life doing.

Re:This is still no remedy...

[sopssa]

Can I pay for a Chinese man to power-level me through school?

Re:This is still no remedy...

[Sockatume]

XP grinding their degree will thoroughly prepare them for the tedium of working on software design, though.

Balance? Yeah, right...

[danaris]

Balancing effort and reward doesn't interest most employers. They're interested in getting the most effort out of their employees for the least possible reward.

If they were to balance effort and reward, they might actually have to (for instance) pay overtime to the programmers who put in 80-hour weeks to meet the deadline...

(Score: -1, Overly Cynical) ;-)

Dan Aris

First job internew

[gad_zuki!]

Kid: "Well, I'm a level 8 Human designer. I'm mostly int and charisma."

Interviewer: "Err, okay... here, roll this 20 sided die. 10 or higher gets you a second interview"

*rolls*

"Sorry, I hope you are able to find better opportunities elsewhere."

*long pause*

"Fireball! Fireball! Fireball! Fireball!"

"Please leave my office."

Re:First job internew

[SharpFang]

Well, we don't need employees who have bad luck...

Change is motivational

[cerberusss]

Course coordinator Lee Sheldon says students are responding with 'far greater enthusiasm,'

It's a documented fact that any change brings about a temporary boost in motivation. One should be careful with making generic assumptions based on this change.

Let me make an analogy we all understand. When you meet a girl and she wears these big unsexy undies, you don't really care because she'll look great to you anyway. When she becomes your wife, you'll suggest sexy, minimalistic underwear. And sooner or later, even that won't help.

Re:Change is motivational

[Karellen]

change brings about a temporary boost in motivation.

That's the Hawthorne effect.

Re:This is still no remedy...

[asliarun]

Can I pay for a Chinese man to power-level me through school?

Dude, he's already doing it.

Re:Just make courses more fun.

[Abstrackt]

Anatomy class, for example. Play doctor and get credit.

Oh, I was thinking "bring me three frog livers for a reward".

They'll love World of Workforce

[Rogerborg]

A 50 year grind to max out, random nerfs and level wipes, and the end game reward is a 2-person Winnebago instance in the Florida server.

Is that so bad?

[twoallbeefpatties]

If I've got a fourth grader, I give him a math test on memorization of the multiplication tables. He turns it in with a quarter of the problems wrong, he gets a D. Then a month later, I give him a test on multiplying double-digit numbers. He gets a quarter of the problems wrong, he gets a D. Then I give him a test on division, three-digit numbers divided by one digit. He gets a D.

This kid leaves the fourth grade, and he pretty much forgets the little that he did learn in my class. He spends most of the next year playing catch-up.

Let me suggest the curriculum for a fourth grader's math assignments. I'm going to give this kid a test on the multiplication tables, but I'm going to give it a week earlier than the other teacher did. If this kid gets a quarter of the problems wrong, then he has to respawn and go fight the boss aga-- er, he has to take another multiplication tables test a week later. He keeps taking one of those tests once a week until he gets at least a 90% on it, even if the other kids have moved on to start taking other tests.

If this kid can't get ever get a 90% on these tables, he gets an F in math for the semester. If he passes the tables test, his grade levels up to a D.

Then I give this kid a test on double-digit multiplication. He has to take it again and again until he gets a 90% on the test. When he does, he levels up to a C in math for the semester. This might take him so long that he doesn't ever really get to the long division test, although I'll still give him some assignments to pick up on the basics of it.

The kid in the first example never really got a strong handle on any of the subjects I taught. The second kid knows his expletive'ing multiplication tables and has a good handle on multiplying numbers, even if he never got a good shot at the later stuff. The first kid got a D in math, the second kid got a C. Which kid do you think knows more about math?

Alternatively, I give one student that tables test, and he gets an A on the first try, a week earlier than the others. I tell this kid, okay, you can beta test the new dungeon that the devs are working on-- er, you can start looking ahead at some of the new material. Or maybe you can actually only get to a B in this class by doing the three main quests, so if you want to get to an A, you'll have to do at least a few side quests. Here, why don't you solve the puzzles in this beginner's programming book, since it's tangentially related to math? Or you could grind the goblins in this basic accounting sheet, teaching you to balance a checkbook?

I'm sure the actual logistics of this method would require a bit of work, but I'd like to see it tried out in practice once.

Re:Is that so bad?

[SirGarlon]

I did this, kind of, as a TA for a remedial (er, the PC term was "developmental") math pre-college summer program. The kids were older (17-18) than elementary school but here's how it worked in a nutshell.

Math is divided into topic categories or "units." There are about 20 of them from intermediate arithmetic (fractions, negative numbers, that sort of thing) through algebra up to integral calculus. Everyone takes a placement test right off the bat. Student's curriculum starts on the first unit he/she flunked on the placement test. You have to pass each unit with 90%.

The term was six weeks. If you pass six units you get an A. Five units gets a B, four gets a C, and if I remember right a D only required two. The point is that students got graded on how far they came, not where they started. Oh, and if you managed to pass the calculus unit then we (the instructors) had to make up new units for you to try next.

This worked great. The students who came in struggling with arithmetic and made it up to basic algebra walked out with A's and B's in math -- for the first time in their lives, in many cases. The students who came in knowing trigonometry walked out with a working knowledge of calculus. That was the goal: get everyone as far ahead as possible in six weeks.

For the instructors, it was hard work. Every student needed lots of help to get through a unit every week. What I found in fact was that the best students started teaching their classmates just to help their friends get an A. Grading took forever because practically every student was working on something different. And, of course, the instructors had to be ready to teach anything from adding and subtracting negative integers, through multivariable calculus, off the top of their heads. But man, was it worth the effort. :)