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Health Care Reform
It appears that today might be the end of a very long road to health care reform. There's been a lot of debate on the subject really leading back before the election. The mainstream sounds like an echo chamber, so I'm hoping you guys have better insight. Will this bill do what the administration claims to do, or is it as bad for the future of America as Fox says?
I have catastrophic insurance, so if I get cancer and my bills go over $20,000 then THEY will cover the cost. Like a safety net.
But most of the time I pay CASH (about $200 a year), which means I deal *directly* with my doctor. I like it that way because it makes the doctor attentive to MY needs not some insurance bureacrat or congressional politician or HMO.
If this Pelosicare Bill forces me to abandon my system of paying cash for product (or else be fined by the government), then I will be very very angry. I will also be concerned what else "they" might force down my throat. "Buy a Prius or other hybrid, else we'll fine you $1000."
This is not freedom. This is like a return to 1770 when Parliament dictated to citizens as if they were Serfs.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
Not enough clickbait today, Taco?
I'm sure "SlashdotMedia" will improve on all the wonders that Dice Holdings blessed us all with
cspell: Faux "News" Why do millions of people think a comedy channel provides real news? Faux "news" is NOT a news channel. It's a comedy channel using absurdity as a comedic take on American society.
I've gotten sick of debating this bill and the process behind it so I'll let this comic I made last night do the talking for me:
http://dl.omgninja.net/images/comics/pelosi-healthcare.png
If we can't afford to give my neighbor health care, we can't afford a trillion dollars a year for warfare and imperialist adventures, or any other corporate welfare programs.
When we gave Wall St hundreds of billions to fix their fuckups, they continued bonusing themselves tens of millions of dollars. I don't think access to basic medical care is in the same universe of entitlement of the wealthy.
As I have pointed out, IT is as wasteful, if not more so, than the health care system. It is also filled with far more errors, failures, etc. than would ever be tolerated from the health care system. Even if you believe this is comparing apples to oranges, they're still fruit; both are extremely complicated, technically-challenging fields which have added a significant benefit to the lives of most modern people and the efficiency of our economic system. Medical professionals are as educated, if not more so, on average, than most IT workers and software developers. They are also significantly more regulated than most of us who have to work for on business infrastructure so we don't get to use the excuse of obstacles with them.
Yet, no one on Slashdot and other left-leaning sites wants to see a similar smashing of major enterprise IT firms like Oracle simply on the basis that their products are bloated, inefficient are so overly complicated that their "ecosystem" of support professionals is damn near a make-work program considering the delta between what most customers actually need, and what the computer industry rams down their throats. I don't want to see more regulation, I want to see less, but at this point I freely say to a lot of the geeks I meet who make big bucks on software that is as bloated, inefficient and overpriced as they say the health care industry is "yuck it up chuckles, they may come for your ass next."
Well, there was that one from yesterday about the Obama administration rejecting zillions of FOIA requests conveniently ignoring that the Obama administration didn't exist for 1/3 of the time they're alleging this happened.
In my personal experience, anything that Fox says is "bad for America" usually means "bad for the republican agenda". I'm not exactly inclined to believe any sort of fearmongering they promote.
has your house burned down lately?
how about the neighbors?
did it take the whole town with it?
drive any where out of state?
clean water?
troll.
-- Sig under construction...
It's because people here are stupid. They are so desperate to avoid any trappings of Socialism that they'd rather die because they can't get medical care than to let Big Evil Government help them out.
The truth is that we desperately need a single-payer system, just like every industrialized country in the world that realized a long time ago that health care is a basic infrastructure need for a productive, thriving population. But the American people are collectively so scared, stupid, and easily swayed, even by outright lies ("Death panels! Federally funded abortion! Rampant costs! Elderly care cuts!") posted on bumper stickers, they they would literally show up with torches and pitchforks in Washington if Congress actually did what is right.
The funny thing to me is that these stupid people who are so quick to bash Socialism are usually fanboys of one of the most huge, expensive Socialist organizations in the entire world: the U.S. military. Now, I'm not bashing the military, I have a lot of respect for it, Socialist as it is and everything. But it's just kind of funny how when George Bush sunk trillions of dollars into it, you didn't see these idiots showing up in Washington with caricatures of him as Hitler.
Maybe I'll post more later. I really could write a book about this, but I've got to go to work.
But consider this. The U.S. is the only country, other than Myanmar, that still has not converted to the metric system. If this country is so stubborn and stupid as to not do things the right way just to spite those damn commies in Europe (and not have to buy a new set of wrenches), seriously, what hope do we ever have of really moving to a single-payer health care system?
first of all, your arguments lack cohesion.
- are you concerned about "liberty" or are you concerned about the budget?
- are you concerned about the budget or are you concerned about paying taxes?
- are you concerned about paying taxes or are you concerned that your tax money is going to fight wars from 100 years ago?
maybe you are legitimately worried about all these things, but you should work on developing a logical framework for government into which all these ideas fit. and no, "I don't like paying taxes" is not a logical framework in terms of how a modern government is run.
let me make this as simple as possible. forget all the little things, like whether the bill is budget neutral or covers abortions, that's just filler.
here's the deal: the health care system in this country is broken. to fix it, you can pay some extra taxes to the federal government for the rest of your life, or you can pay hefty fees to the insurance companies for the rest of your life.
that's the whole debate.
It breaks my pluginses, my precious!
Well, for one thing, it will create a new entitlement program, funded by increased taxes on people like myself that work. My tax dollars are now going to be raised so the government can subsidize other peoples' healthcare.
Sounds a bit like socialized medicine to me, no?
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
You are a moron.
So then all laws requiring motor vehicle insurance are unconstitutional? That would be interesting.
Some do make that argument, yes. I am unaware if it has been formally challenged on that basis, though. It could be argued that not having auto insurance could wind up affecting others financially while not having health insurance only screws yourself (the financial burden on your next of kin notwithstanding).
life expectancy
There's only a 6 year span covering the life expectancies of the top 50 countries. That really doesn't seem like much, and trying to read *one* factor into it, like health care, is pointless. I could just as easily declare the USA has a lower number due to bad diet and in *spite* of our health care.
Note: I'm actually not opposed to the single payer concept. I just would like someone other than our Congress to hammer it out. ;-)
So what parts of the current health care bill do you think will have the biggest and best effects?
Government is why these things cost so much
You sure those multi-billion dollar profits that all parts of the healthcare industry sees every year doesn't have something to do with it?
Living With a Nerd
The car insurance analogy is like comparing apples and oranges. First of all the government does not make you drive, but if you do drive you need insurance to have the privilege of using public roads. But to further tear up your argument. The government can revoke your license if you drive poorly, can the same be said for health care? Wouldn't that be like telling people who smoke that they can't go to the doctor anymore? Driving a car on public roads is a privilege that can be revoked. Living is not. Simply being born under this bill will require you buy something, and if progressives get a single payer plan, you will most likely buy from the government.
If you are diagnosed with a disease like cancer, time is your #1 enemy, and oftentimes it is how long it takes to get a CT scan or see an oncologist that makes the difference between life and death. So, you see, this is a really major issue. If you had a sucking chest wound would you want to wait more or less time? For that matter, if you had anything wrong with you, would you want to wait a longer time? You say there are huge inefficiencies in our system, but then fail to point out a single one. Here's a link that pretty much blows that whole argument out of the water though: Most Cancer Survival Rates in USA Better Than Europe and Canada. This is due to our better health care system. By the way, can you produce a list of high profile individuals that flew from the U.S. to the U.K. or Canada to receive medical treatment? Because they sure come here in droves! You also fail to point out how out health care system will compare when 1/3 of the doctors quit, and incentives (high pay) to practice medicine decrease.
I'm going to have to call you on that one. Maybe you can point out another country that has a better medical system, since they are so numerous and all. Be nice if you provided a link. Something real too, I don't want to hear about how the U.K. has more coverage, even if they have to wait for 6 months for a CT scan. Coverage delayed is coverage denied.
I pointed out in my earlier post that medicare is the #1 denier of claims. I pointed out how medicare costs are rising almost 2x as fast as private insurance, And cost estimates were wildly underestimated (predicted $9b actual $67b). How does that jive with your argument that the government run program is better? We have the proof that it is not run better right there! Where is your proof that the government is going to be more effective? Seems like you just want to debate the points you think you have a shot at winning, or so you thought!.
If there is quite a bit of evidence, I'm sure it wo
Insurance against a pre-existing condition is an oxymoron. It's not possible. You want charity. Which is fine, but don't get it confused with insurance.
It's been ruled legal to use blackmail, so if this is shot down, they'll just deny funding to states that don't pass a complying law. So complaining they can't, say, set the maximum speed to 55 mph is a useless argument. They can't, and so they didn't, but yet did at the same time. At least this way, they are putting it in one place, even if this and the 55 mph thing are both unconstitutional. I'd rather have one unconstitutional law than 52 of them. I guess that makes me a bad American. I'll take the simple evil over the complicated one. I'd vote for non-evil, but they aren't running and you didn't write my name in for the last election.
Learn to love Alaska