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Naming and Shaming "Bad" ISPs
An anonymous reader writes "Brian Krebs takes a provocative look at ISP reputations, collecting data from 10 different sources that track 'badness' from a multitude of angles, from phishing to malware to botnet command and control centers. Some of the lists show very interesting and useful results; the ISPs that are most common among the various reputation services are some of the largest ISPs and hosting providers, including ThePlanet and Softlayer. The story has generated quite a bit of discussion in the security community as to whether these various efforts are measuring the wrong things, or if it is indeed valid and useful to keep public attention focused on the bigger providers, since these are generally US-based and have the largest abuse problems in terms of overall numbers."
These measurements might not be 100% accurate at identifying the root of each of the problem areas, but when an ISP is on all but one of the top ten lists, you have to start wondering what they are doing wrong. ThePlanet.com, what gives? Too many undereducated customers running infected servers? No top level detection and deactivation process in place? Seems like there are a lot of things missing.
One of the largest ISPs in Brazil, Locaweb, is the main source of spam and malware I get and it's not only about numbers. They just ignore every single complain I've done.
Scientia est Potentia
It is a shame that ThePlanet is doing so badly. I've used them before for dedicated hosting and was very happy with the service I received. I will say that they are very "hands off" (which is generally good, but bad in this case). I think one has to remember that this is a chart of which ISPs are most responsive and active in stopping abuse originating from their network and not some kind of general review of the service they offer.
That being said I think all the ISPs listed should be unhappy about appearing on these lists and should actively be trying to fix their reputation or risk getting blacklisted.
You take the good. You take the bad. You take them both, and there you have Net Neutrality.
Net Neutrality. When the world never seems to be living up to your dreams, and suddenly you're finding out Net Neutrality isn't all about you.
Some of the ISP's in the list are huge hosting companies, namely ThePlanet, Layered Tech, Leaseweb, OVH.. You have no idea how big they are unless you've visited one of their data centers. They host millions of servers. How would they check it all? For that matter, who wants their data center staff snooping around in your server?
Being one of the largest hosting companies in the planet obviously brings in bad guys too.
Please. If you are a big company you need to be prepared to deal with larger portions of the same: good tools, good (and bigger) staff, a specialized security/response team. It's like any other company, One can't expect to run a large company with the same resources used in a small one.
Scientia est Potentia
Why would anyone (home user/corporate etc) care about any of that? It doesn't make their network/access any less safe. People go for cost, then performance. If I can get a good deal from an ISP, why do I care about how many follow customers are incapable of managing their systems?
I'm fairly certain that they have specialized security/response teams. The difference between small and big companies is that the big ones are known by everyone. Even if they have a prompt response team they can't pre-screen servers, and even snooping around in them would be illegal. Obviously the huge companies will be better known to everyone and hence get more customers, good and bad.
So as by far the biggest abuse problems (botnets, spam, ...) are coming out of the USA since many years, maybe it is time for other countries to black whole USA based addresses. Just stop routing their packets until they become good net citizens.
I don't know how many reports I have seen pointing to the USA as the biggest spam source. It's time to do something about it. Only if there are some consequences will they ever change their behaviour.
The big hosting providers ALL have the same attitude when you contact them about abuse:
"WE aren't doing this, that is one of the customers of one of our resellers, we won't do anything, talk to the reseller."
Of course, the reseller says "Screw you, they are paying us good money and you aren't."
Softlayer is a VERY good example of this: a Softlayer hosted site has repeatedly been spamming the Wine Developers mailing list for their crap. I have personally emailed Softlayer about it on more than 10 separate occasions, and have heard ZERO back from them. They don't care (even though their site claims they are aggressively anti-spam - BULLSHIT! words are cheap, actions are not, and Softlayer HASN'T ACTED!)
The spam problem isn't complicated to solve, it is actually pretty simple to solve (though not EASY to solve!) - just follow the "shit flows downstream" principle. If a host is doing bad things, look up who owns the network they are on, and MAKE IT THAT ENTITIE'S PROBLEM to solve it. However the problem is solved - be it "Hey, your server's infected" "OOPS fixed now sorry!", be it "We have blocked outgoing connections from your system until you fix it.", be it "Boss axed me an' Nunzio to has a talk wit ju about youses' server...." - doesn't matter as long as the problem gets solved. If it DOESN'T get solved, then the network owner becomes the problem entity, and you move to their hosts.
The only hard part is bringing some form of negative consequences to bear upon the network owners - you either need a law (and then you have a hard time dealing with systems outside your law's reach - all you can do is place the problem on the point of demarcation to your jurisdiction), or you need something with a wider reach, like publicity.
(and to all you morons about to copy and paste the "spam solutions form" - that meme is old enough to drink and vote, let it die already, OK?)
www.eFax.com are spammers
And yet you still expect them to sell you hosting for 19.95 a month, provide you with basically unlimited bandwidth, unlimited storage,do not even THINK about deep packet inspection or traffic shaping and let you do most anything you want to do!
Sorry but your comment is laughable man. The old saying of, "Speed, Quality, Price" Choose 2 still applies.
Hey KID! Yeah you, get the fuck off my lawn!
True, but you also have to prepare a budget for it. You can choose the contracts for careless or even malicious customers who would not accept a more sane or secure overall environment, including spammers and l33t d00dz who insist that "the Internet is free!!!" and "why can't I run my own NFS/SMB/HTTP/SMTP/FTP/IRC/Bittorrent server, I paid my $19.99/month!!!!" And slapping them down and turning them away lowers your potential customer base: a lot of ISP's worry a lot about "market penetration", and rely on being the locally dominant player. Following up properly on complaints against those abuse customsers also takes serious engineering and legal reources, none of which generates revenue.
Conversely, some ISP's do well with the superior service being security aware can provide. They don't get overwhelmed by surprise Bittorrent or FTP deluges against hosted servers, they channel outbound SMTP through servers that require authentication so the spambots can achieve nothing without passwords and they disconnect machines spewing Windows worms around their local network. and they keep their routers up-to-date with security patches to avoid getting re-routed. Some of us appreciate the resulting protection, and pay for it in our monthly bill rather than in expensive internal engineering cleaning up the messes.
We all demand huge bandwidth, huge amounts of storage and we want it for 19.95 a month.
Do you wonder why everything is over sold? I mean, really do you?
How much does a really sharp *nix admin.engineer cost annually?
Even with really good tools how many physical boxes can on guy keep watch over? How about when each box is hosting 300 accounts, or running 10 VM's? What would anyone guesstimate? Maybe each box is only hosting 30 accounts? I mean the numbers start to add up.
Lets say just for sake of argument that a really good admin can handle the care and feeding of 100 servers. That guy costs you 60K a year benefits and all. You need three shifts because you run 24/7 so that is 180K right there. Lets say you have 10,000 servers do now we are taking 100 guys * 3 shifts so 300 admins * 60,000.00 per year. So payroll just for the admins is 18 million a year and we have not given anyone the weekend off, so that number is a bit low.
You have not yet paid for all the hardware or your bandwidth bill. So right now at 19.95 a month you need about 900,000 customers.
Uhmmm for some reason those numbers just don't pencil. So thats why ISP's have to oversell everything AND turn a blind eye to a lot of things.
Hey KID! Yeah you, get the fuck off my lawn!
The reason being that when I look at our firewall logs or when we happen to get a system compromised, the US is way underrepresented. The US accounts for a very large portion of the Internet still, and we are located in the US so you might expect to see most attacks from there. However the majority are RIPE or APNIC addresses. You can also see it in things like Conficker infections. If you look at the graph of what got hit how bad (http://www.confickerworkinggroup.org/wiki/uploads/ANY/conficker-all-2009-small.png) you see that RIPE and APNIC are again way overrepresented in relation to the whole.
Now I've not done a scientific study on this, I'll admit, but I do have a reasonable data set and it just doesn't match with what I've seen.
Also, I've heard that one of the large companies, HostGator, gets 1500 new customers every day and they catch around 500 of them being malicious/spammers (even with phone verification!). With that huge amount of customers, and the good-to-bad ratio, it's no surprise if some slip in.
We've been doing something like this at SiteTruth for two years. We have the list of major domains being exploited by active phishing scams. This is simply a list of domains that are both in PhishTank (about 100,000 entries) and Open Directory (about 1.5 million entries). Today, 84 domains are in both. There's been a surge; it was 54 two days ago.
Domains are on this list for one of several reasons.
While this is to some extent a "blame the victim" approach, it's more effective than "phishing education" aimed at end users. Hundreds of webmasters have to be educated, not hundreds of millions of end users.