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We're Staying In China, Says Microsoft
ericb tips an article at the Guardian which begins:
"Hopes that Google's forthright stand on censorship in China would inspire other companies to follow suit appeared unfounded today, with the move instead threatening to widen the rift between some of the world's most powerful internet companies. Microsoft, which has considerable interests in the country, including its Bing search engine, responded directly to criticism by Google's co-founder Sergey Brin, who this week accused the company of speaking against human rights and free speech. Brin, who pressed for the closing down of Google's self-censored Chinese search engine, said yesterday: 'I'm very disappointed for them in particular. I would hope that larger companies would not put profit ahead of all else. Generally, companies should pay attention to how and where their products are used.' Microsoft rejected Brin's critique, saying it would continue to obey local laws on censorship in China."
Normally the news likes to hand you a big fat moral or ethical dilemma when you find out that your favorite product is made by Big Evil. But this is the best kind of news for me! The kind that further reaffirms my views on my most hated companies!
Terrible news for the Chinese. Great news for my Down with Microsoft agenda! When you're chewing on life's gristle don't grumble, give a whistle!
My work here is dung.
I'm kind of torn by this whole China/Google/Microsoft thing. While I'm not a fan of the Chinese government, who are we to say what they should and shouldn't allow? Would we want a Chinese company to come into our country and tell our government what to do? While I've seen a great deal of discussion about human rights surrounding these stories, I've seen precious little about sovereignty.
Selling someone computers is a little less reckless than actually building the gas chamber.
If they censor results, search engines are doing China’s dirty work for it.
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
After years of playing ball with China, Google has an epiphany and decides it's evil. Now they condemn anybody else who hasn't come to the same conclusion on their schedule.
Seems kind of thin,
It happened after the Nazi's took over IBM German subsidiary. Even the reference that they got technology and help from the Polish offices doesn't sound that damming since Germany had already INVADED Poland at the time. I doubt that IBM had any real control over those offices at the time it happened.
IBM does have a long history of being the meanest nastiest competitor on the planet but I really think trying to blame them for the Holocaust is pretty unfounded.
The oddest historical hookup I remember how well Ford worked with pre WWII USSR they did all sorts of deals with Stalin and company. Which if you think about it should really make your head hurt.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
By this time next week they'll be claiming "Market share for Bing jumped by 19%.in the last month".
No sig today...
So if I type "child porn" into the Google image search, should it return 8-year-olds giving blowjobs?
We censor things here too, we just draw the line differently. That doesn't make it right to draw the line somewhere else, but before you go off on Google, you should really think about what it means for a company to just violate any law they don't care for.
Try not to take me more seriously than I take myself.
Bill Gates wants to be seen as some kind of third world savior but in the end, he's just another capitalist with money to burn.
You are aware that Bill has retired from all but a non-exec position aren't you? He has surprisingly little say in what MS do these days.
Absolutely! Just follow the examples of IBM, Standard Oil, Ford Motors or perhaps a telco or two. Nothing seems as erection inducing for the CEOs and "free marketers" of all stripes as profits from being able to supply both your side and the enemy's in a war, surely. Because greed and profit is all that counts in this universe, no?
Selling someone computers is a little less reckless than actually building the gas chamber.
If they censor results, search engines are doing China’s dirty work for it.
I'm not sure if I'm following on from a Godwin, but hey.... you've got to remember this was 70 years ago and computing wasn't nearly as mature as it is today.
IBM knew full well what they were doing and at the time, the argument "if we don't do it someone else will" simply didn't hold water - there wasn't anyone else who had the technology to provide the kind of data processing equipment the Nazis wanted.
>> Sorry but admiring Google for no longer censoring is like admiring someone for no longer beating their child.
That's not a good analogy at all. Much better would be to say "Admiring Google for no longer censoring is like admiring the one person that stopped beating their child, while everyone else continues to do so."
We might not actually admire them, since we don't personally do business in China, so we can feel morally superior, but amongst their peers Google is doing an admirable thing.
So if I type "child porn" into the Google image search, should it return 8-year-olds giving blowjobs?
Yes, it should. And people who abuse children to produce those images should be prosecuted, and the sites that host them should be prosecuted.
Making Google censor that kind of thing doesn't make it go away, it just makes it invisible to most people. Anyone who's really interested can find it.
And child porn is a bad analogy. The crime here isn't abuse of individuals, it's engaging in speech that criticizes government. Maybe it's a patronizing, western take on things, but if your society needs to suppress dissent to continue to exist, your society is shitty and needs to change.
the parent makes a valid point. some majority/minority somewhere in the world all wanting the same thing does NOT make what they want acceptable, humane or ethical, and doesnt free us from our moral obligations as humans to act for the greater good.
Read radical news here
I disagree. There's nothing wrong with admiring growth of character. I don't know if I agree Google's actions are truly based on character or just business, but that aside.. Maybe you were raised to be a perfect child and have never done wrong, just like I was, but you and I must acknowledge that not everyone was given that same opportunity. Sure, doing it right the first time is PREFERRED, but being able to look at yourself and analyze something that you accepted as TRUTH because that's how you were raised and seeing how it was WRONG and reacting to that realization by GROWING is certainly admirable in my book. It takes a strong person to do that. I hope that I used enough caps to convey my point adequately..
"They have the moral right to point fingers because they took action."
Well, people don't always agree about what is or is not moral. In my book if you've been doing something wrong for a long time and just stopped it, it's time to hang your head in shame and hope for forgiveness, not to act self-righteous about the fact that you've cleaned-up your act.
Of course, MS is a competitor so it makes the holier-than-thou attitude even more swarmy.