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Indian Census To Collect Fingerprints, Photos
adityamalik writes "The Indian census kicks off on Thursday, with approximately 2.5 million people charged with conducting it across the billion-plus strong country. 'Officials will collect fingerprints and photograph every resident for the first time for the register — a process described by Home Minister P. Chidambaram as 'the biggest exercise... since humankind came into existence.' Sensitivity towards collection of biometrics and personal details is quite low in India currently. I wonder how effective — and how powerful — the exercise will turn out to be for the country. I'm also struggling to imagine how the photo and fingerprint collection is going to happen, technology-wise."
As long as reasonable attempts are made to keep this information secure and out of the hands of the police, this is a case where the privacy concerns are far outweighed by the benefits. India has the world's second largest population; think about how difficult it must be form them to keep track of even simple census data. The U.S. has a population one fourth the size of India, and still has trouble taking taking a census only once every 10 years. This will allow India to better allocate aid to impoverished regions, or even just track what percentage of children actually attend school.
Although to answer your question, not much. Although, if illiteracy is as bad as it suggests in TFA, then the purpose is probably to overcome this to some degree - if people can't write their name, then recording their fingerprint and their photo will reduce errors. There's a few reasons listed in TFA:
But Ashish Bose, a retired professor of Indian and Asian population studies at Delhi University, warned of mistakes creeping in despite the best efforts. "Uneducated people in villages never know their ages correctly. It is never a '51' it always 50 or 55. But overall we conduct a good census -- no doubt about it and the vast majority of people are keen to participate," he said. S. Parasuraman, a demography professor at the Tata Institute of the Social Sciences in Mumbai, said the new population registry will provide a valuable database. "In a disaster for instance, one will be able to pinpoint how many people were living at a place before and after the catastrophe struck. It will be a compilation of useful information enabling proper governance," he said. Data collected for the National Population Register will in turn facilitate the issue of the 16-digit Unique Identity Numbers to all Indian residents. This will serve as a one-stop proof for all Indians to establish their identity, eliminating the current need to produce multiple personal documents.
Now, putting aside the inherent "creepiness" of fingerprint scanning, it makes sense. It's the Indian poverty version of a driver's license as an ID.
Our culture doesn't get smarter, it just finds new ways of being retarded.
Am also struggling to imagine how the photo and fingerprint collection is going to happen, technology-wise.
Simple - don't tell them you're from the Indian census bureau. Tell them you're from Facebook.in, and they'll fight over who can give you their blood and other bodily fluids first.
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Depends on your population trends and ruling elites greatest fears.
From a criminal underclass susceptible to outside messages, an ever expanding number of farmers with no land, no work and no compensation.
With fingerprints and fast FBI like data processing many crimes will point back to an id on file and a photo.
The problem with the ID dream is the "freedom fighters" will have "one way" mission ready perfect ID.
Everybody else has to sit as expensive ID is produced, printed and used everyday.
The real fun is then the figure print scan expansion.
To access new expensive and later daily government services would a fast, user friendly finger 'scan' be introduced?
Protest too much and your ID has errors, stop protesting and it works again?
Take your case to a human rights worker - your ID stops for much longer and the state has an ID on the humans right worker.
The state can turn or dispose of trouble makers and work on long term solutions to local problems.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
a simultaneous process of collecting biometric data on every person, to be used in a new National Population Register
Data collected for the National Population Register will in turn facilitate the issue of the 16-digit Unique Identity Numbers to all Indian residents.
Sounds like they don't have an equivalent of social security numbers- the biometric data will help make it easier to figure out who is who in this process. Given the population, in addition to literacy issues, using an easy method is more practical than trying to minimize police-state like data collection. If you can't expect everyone to keep track of their own ID number, you need another way to peg the person to the number later. As much as I don't like the idea of fingerprinting everyone, if it's the only way to efficiently get the government to better provide services for these people, I see it as a necessary 'evil'.
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Right? ...oh
What you say is scary, but it won't happen in India for a simple reason:
The Indian government is (luckily) incompetent and indisciplined. For tyranny to succeed, discipline is necessary which the Indian government doesn't have. An incompetent government is a gift to the people. Better than having competent fanatics. Undisciplined people can't do great irreversible damage!
what genetic data is to be collected? a fingerprint??
The article does not mention any kind of genetic data collection at all.
An incompetent government is a gift to the people.
I think India is an example of it going a bit too far. India is in desperate need of Chinese style population control. Right now the region is a sitting duck for famine. I wouldn't want to see a billion people starve to death.
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Makes sense to point out here 2 crucial differences between the US and India.
In India, there's no Right to Privacy as strongly guaranteed under the US Constitution. Secondly, there is a strongly articulated bundle of rights called the "Right to Life". This includes the right to food, education, access to free / subsidised health services etc. In India, there are massive government programmes for the provision of basic services (food, shelter, education, irrigation, water, electricity, transport etc) to citizens.
In this context, the people, rather than being wary of the state and treating it like an enemy as is the case in the US actually want the state to help them. If you were to provide an Indian farmer with irrigation, access to primary healthcare facilities, water, sanitation, education and drought/flood relief, most would gladly fork over their private details.
Of course, modern states are brutal and the information collected will no doubt be used to casually repress people and tighten the state's hold on them. However, the integrity of your DNA fingerprint is of little consequence if you've committed suicide because of mounting debts.
When making a submission, please summarize the facts, and if you have opinions about it, reply in a comment as we common folks do. Your opinion isn't above ours. Thank you.
Why is there always a question mark on non-Indians about their ability to achieve something? I see lots of uncertainty expressed about India and Indians in forums.
I know people the electronic voting machine miserably failed in the US, for instance. Still they have not got it right. In India, they have been using electronic voting system for a long time now. I know the kind of spending they do in the US to achieve anything. In India, they spend 100 times lesser to achieve the same thing. The US does not know efficiency! It's all extravagant. The quality revolution in the US, which started after Japan's, is itself a testimonial to their being historically inefficient. I have nothing against anyone, jsut do not always doubt others.
You may be a human being, an animal that can be as intelligent as possible. But, frogs and rodents are more intelligent when it comes to predicting earthquakes.
Maybe they'll outsource it?
Science is all about firing a drunk pig out of a cannon just to see what happens.
Uhh I recall watching a video in middle school (a 15 years ago??) about the 1990 Chinese Census of 2 billion people
That's quite a feat, given that the 2000 Chinese Census put the population of China at only 1,242,612,226, not much over half that.
Some census.
The problem isn't for the ordinary citizen during peacetime, but rather when the government decides to go to "war" against their private citizens. From the 1990s onwards, the west has been pretty peaceful. But imagine if we get another wave of Cold War era paranoia? Do you -really- want the government tracking everything you do when that happens? National ID cards aren't terrible during peace where nothing is happening, but a few laws passed on the side can allow the government to easily profile a person as an "enemy"
Imagine this scenario. Your country goes to war with say, Japan for no apparent reason. Everything about Japan is frowned upon, those of Japanese decent are rounded up (similar to what happened in the US), and the government requires IDs to be checked when purchasing goods to "make sure you aren't a spy". Well, all that happens and the government is logging data, profiling you. It sees that you bought a book about the culture of Japan at the local bookstore, some sushi with a friend and a collection of Asian flags. From this information the government decides that -you- could possibly be a spy for Japan trying to overthrow your government so you either have A) your reputation ruined or B) go to a secret prison and are never seen again.
Such things seem unrealistic, but similar things have happened in the past even with no national ID and no standard way of checking people. When hysteria grips the masses, people who say they support freedom change their tone.
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
hard to imagine how it sustains a bilion people already.i guess a lot of them are living worse then my dog does (which wouldn't be hard i guess, my dog sleeps in the bed and gets premium raw pet food, he even has a health plan)
If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
Wonder what the implications are for a country that creates under- and over-privilege through a genetically-driven caste system.
There are probably a lot of people who would prefer to remain anonymous lest someone discover they are not of as high a status as they pretend to be.
Am also struggling to imagine how the photo and fingerprint collection is going to happen, technology-wise.
Lots of these
Might be expensive, though.
But on a serious note, it should be interesting to see, after 1 billion fingerprints (about 1/6 of the world population) are gathered, whether the assumption that they're unique is still valid.
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People always say this is unlikely or unrealistic until it happens. As one posted already, we had an Austrian Corporal use Germany's census data to round up the Jews and the United States government did the same to the Japanese Americans during World War 2 - using census data.
If you're OK with providing all the information government asks for during the census, fine. I am not, not because of some tin foil hat conspiracy theory - just from a sense of history. It will probably amount to nothing, but I don't buy the explanations of why they need that info.
Fortunately, in the United States, we are not (yet) at the point of the government collecting photos and fingerprints. I don't expect that will last too much longer - probably be required as part of health care.
The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth. (Stonewall Jackson
"Am also struggling to imagine how the photo and fingerprint collection is going to happen, technology-wise."
Come on, this is India, the country we trust all our IT development work to. If a country has the abilities, it should be India.
Made-up scenario?
The Census has already admitting to giving information on Japanese-Americans for the purpose of their internment at concentration camps during WWII.
After denying it for decades, they finally admitted giving names and addresses of Japanese-Americans to the military.
Generally, if the government tells you X, the truth is likely Not X.
I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
Bullshit.
Poor in America are fat mostly because the cheapest and most accessible foods have high calories and low nutrients (somewhat exacerbated by low levels of physical activity).
I am not even going to bother refuting your ridiculous assertion about healthcare, my rage at your ignorance and arrogance isn't good for my blood pressure.
Wonder how effective — and how powerful — the exercise will turn out to be for the country. Am also struggling to imagine how the photo and fingerprint collection is going to happen, technology-wise.
Am also struggling to form complete sentences.
Dewey, you fool! Your decimal system has played right into my hands!
The OP's scenario is not implausible at all. Look up the red scare. or even nazi gemany. Before they could enslave and later murder the jews, they had to know who was jewish.
Why does everyone think that bad stuff can't happen here? Its silly, the whole reason we have a bill of rights and (supposedly) limited government is because bad things WERE happening here.
You want to give total control of your life over to someone you don't even know, and then your only recourse is to simply trust that you won't be abused? How stupid are you?