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Mass. Gambling Bill Would Criminalize Online Poker

Posted by kdawson on from the put-up-then-you-won't-have-so-much dept.

timothy writes "Awesome: 'A gambling bill introduced by Massachusetts House Speaker Robert DeLeo criminalizes Internet gambling and online poker. The bill calls for two casinos.' Not that they're against gambling, you see... just against being deprived of a monopoly in such a perfect fleecing opportunity."

15 of 296 comments (clear)

  1. Victimless crimes.. by Darkness404 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why is it that in 2010 we still try to create even more victimless crimes? Even if I'm against the object of the crime itself, I'm very much opposed to my tax dollars being wasted on people who want to do it.

    I don't care if my neighbor plays poker. I do care if I have to pay money because my neighbor plays poker.

    --
    Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    1. Re:Victimless crimes.. by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Agreed.

      And honestly, I don't participate in Online Gambling myself, but I think people who want to should have that right. I hope they meet more resistance than just the minority of people who play.

      The next thing I need is some bill saying I can't visit an MMO because they too are an online service depriving me of my money. It's my call to make. If you have a problem with gambling, go ahead and try to get it outright banned. Otherwise, targetting just the online sector of it is just silly. Why does the internet make a process any more illegal or immoral?

    2. Re:Victimless crimes.. by sopssa · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's not that the states really care about you gambling, they just want to have the revenue from it themselves instead of it going to someones Internet business.

    3. Re:Victimless crimes.. by __aasqbs9791 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Can you really call someone who chooses to do any particular act a "victim"? Unless there's deception (that isn't part of the act in some way) I'd have a hard time calling the loser a "Victim". Is the guy who loses in a boxing match a victim?

    4. Re:Victimless crimes.. by blankinthefill · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I've never understood how we can claim to be such a progressive, forward thinking country while having such a ridiculous number of blue laws (regarding laws that are meant to enforce certain 'moral' standards, not just the Sunday laws) on the books. In all honesty, it's time to get rid of these. Who cares when people sell things, or if people gamble with their own money, or who sleeps with whom (or whoms), or even if people want to parade around naked all day long? Hell, for a country that claims to have a separation of church and state, we sure have a lot of religious laws. (Okay, I kind of care if people want to parade around naked all day long, depending on the person, but that doesn't mean that we should have legislation in place banning something that doesn't have any victims other than our sense of taste!)

    5. Re:Victimless crimes.. by blair1q · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Person A gambles away every penny he has, aided by the con game being run by the online poker service.

      Person A then goes on welfare, taking even more of your money than it would have cost to stop his online gambling.

      The only hypocrisy in this is that Person A will probably end up broke at the Wewannafuckyu Casino on Rte 128. But far fewer will, and they won't be cheated in the process, just ground into meaningless flesh by their own stupidity.

      See, stupid is a victimless crime. Conning someone out of their money is not. Knowingly committing an act deemed to have deleterious implications to the welfare of the community, also is not.

    6. Re:Victimless crimes.. by WindowlessView · · Score: 4, Insightful

      > I hope they meet more resistance than just the minority of people who play.

      I'm willing to bet they won't. People can't be bothered to resist things like two wars that are costing them hundreds of billions each year, they sure as hell won't get off their asses for the poker player down the block.

      --
      Leave the gun, take the cannolis.
  2. Of Course MA Wants Monopoly by cmholm · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It shouldn't be a shock to anyone that MA, or any state, would want to limit on-line gaming. The only reason any US state has permitted gaming at all is to generate revenue. Being as the states don't have a good mechanism for that on-line, they don't permit it.

    One can moan about libertarian ideals and Puritan ethics all one wants. But, all of the players are fully aware of the situation, and have no inhibition against saying so in public, so pointing it out isn't going to make it go away.

    --
    Luke, help me take this mask off ... Just for once, let me butterfly kiss you with my own eyes.
  3. Gambling leaves a trail of victims by SuperBanana · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Gambling isn't even remotely victimless- why do you think there are recovery groups for gambling addiction?

    Casinos are specifically and carefully designed to exploit people's natural instincts (for example, no windows so you have no sense of time) and mental illnesses; the layout of the floor is done purposefully, as are the style of the games. There's a wealth of information out there for anyone with access to Google Scholar, for example, like this:

    The pattern of convictions for various categories of crime in the population of the United Kingdom was compared with the corresponding pattern in a sample of addictive gamblers drawn from Gamblers Anonymous in the U.K. A distinctive pattern of income-generating crime was found to be statistically associated with pathological gambling. This pattern was compared with other distinctive patterns associated with the intake of alcohol and with various other drugs and it was found to resemble most closely that of addiction to narcotic drugs. The possible role of gambling as a contributory cause of crime is discussed in the light of what is known of the issues surrounding other addictions as causes of their distinctive patterns of crime.

    I don't care if my neighbor plays poker. I do care if I have to pay money because my neighbor plays poker.

    You have to pay when your neighbor robs the local convenience store to pay the rent/mortgage/grocer (or their gambling debts, or just to gamble more), loses the house/apartment anyway, and their spouse and child are now homeless and on welfare. Or the person becomes homeless, with no health insurance, and ends up in the hospital. Or goes mentally insane and stabs you on the street corner for the $10 in your wallet.

    Take a look at the police spending in any community pre-and-post casino. It always skyrockets after the casinos move in, because casinos attract the desperate, mentally ill, and criminal.

    --
    Please help metamoderate.
    1. Re:Gambling leaves a trail of victims by russotto · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Gambling isn't even remotely victimless- why do you think there are recovery groups for gambling addiction?

      Non sequitur. The existence of a recovery group for addiction to X does not indicate that doing X results in a victim. For instance, there's groups for shopping addiction, yet shopping is victimless.

      You have to pay when your neighbor robs the local convenience store to pay the rent/mortgage/grocer (or their gambling debts, or just to gamble more), loses the house/apartment anyway, and their spouse and child are now homeless and on welfare.

      Same as I have to pay if he robs the local convenience store because he bought too much house for his income, or spent all his money on a business that failed, or any number of things. It's already illegal to rob the local convenience store; making the reasons someone might rob a local convenience store illegal is not compatible with a free dociety.

      Take a look at the police spending in any community pre-and-post casino. It always skyrockets after the casinos move in, because casinos attract the desperate, mentally ill, and criminal.

      Casinos attract a lot of people full stop. But this is about _internet_ gambling; the desperate, mentally ill, and criminal can stay right where they are.

    2. Re:Gambling leaves a trail of victims by MozeeToby · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Casinos are specifically and carefully designed to exploit people's natural instincts

      So is World of Warcraft, and no one is trying to outlaw that. Hell, as far as college age people goes, I knew 5 people that dropped out of college as a result of WoW addictions. We're talking playing 100+ hours per week without sleep or going to classes numerous problems with relationships, few friends outside of their addiction, and extreme difficulty holding down a job. In other words, all the hallmarks of a destructive addiction, and any psychologist can tell you that the game is designed to create exactly that.

  4. Re:Gambling online is completely fucking stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That is an incredibly stupid thing to say. It's obvious you don't know how to play poker - on line or IRL.

    Reading your opponents "nervousness" is only a small part of the game. Playing on-line just means everyone has a perfect poker face.
    The far more important clues are just as valid on-line as they are in person. How much did he bet? From what position did he play? How long did it take him to think? How often does he bet? How often are the continuation bets? These are all much more important tells then "he looks nervous"...

    You can push "all-in" with junk hands and force people off good hands - sure. But if you're playing anyone good, you win maybe a big blind 3-8 times. And as your odds of getting pocket aces are 1 in 215 (or 24 times around a 9 person table), if you push all in long enough, someone will eventually have you beat and call. Donkeys who play like that always go bust if there is anyone moderately good at the table. Sounds like you have had the pleasure...

  5. Re:...in USA by WindowlessView · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Not that much is legislated federally

    Say what? Congress may not pass all that many bills but the ones they do are multiple warheads filled with scatter bombs.

    --
    Leave the gun, take the cannolis.
  6. Re:About time!!! This needs to pass immediately by hodet · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Don't be stupid. Maybe you posted as AC because you know you are full of it. The big sites make money hand over fist because they offer a straight game. They stand to lose way more if they don't. The small shady sites maybe, but Pokerstars and FullTilt are fine. These are legitimate enterprises that run legally in many countries.

  7. Re:Enforcement? by bdsesq · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I live in Massachusetts.
    If you pay your proper bribes you can do just about anything in the area of gambling. Slot machines, poker games, dice tables.
    My next door neighbor used to have a high stakes poker game every week. One of the players was the chief of police.
    There is an ethnic club in the next town that has slot machines, lotteries, poker games. They pay their bribes and no one bothers them.

    What the politicians don't like about internet gambling is there is no way to collect the bribes.