Sony Update Bricks Playstations

Stoobalou writes "A controversial update which was seeded by Sony in order to remove the ability to run Linux on the Playstation 3 games console has caused a storm of complaints. The 3.21 firmware upgrade, which removes the security hole provided by the 'Install Other OS' widget used by lots of educational institutions and hackers alike, also removes the console's ability to play games... turning it into a very expensive doorstop."

Comments

Par for the course?

[bjourne]

So is there any console or other electronic gadget you can buy nowadays which does not include forced locked own firmware updates that has the possibility of breaking it? Both Xbox360 and the Wii are just as locked down as the PS3.

Re:Par for the course?

[Anonymous Coward]

Both Xbox360 and the Wii are just as locked down as the PS3.

Is that why there's a massive piracy scene for the first two, and zero piracy on the PS3?

Re:Par for the course?

[elrous0]

No, there is one word to explain that: blu-ray. It's the same reason there as very little DVD movie piracy in the mid-late 90's (very few people had burners and security cracks yet).

Re:Par for the course?

[tagno25]

I cannot brick my Android phone. Event deleting the firmware it still boots to the flash loader.

Re:Par for the course?

[marcansoft]

And yet the PS3 isn't tougher to hack in the way geohot has (certainly not given Other OS). Look at geohot's hack: it's a simple RAM glitch, much like the one tmbinc pioneered over 2 years ago on the Wii ("twiizer attack"). Now that hacks are out for all consoles, we can compare the relative difficulty. Compare the PS3 (plaintext hypervisor in RAM, no hashing) to the Xbox 360 (encrypted hypervisor in RAM, hashing, encrypted executables). Both consoles have good security, but the PS3 hack is significantly simpler than 360 hacks from a technical perspective (drive hacks notwithstanding - that's a whole different ballgame). That's also confirmed given how little time it took geohot to get it to work, even though he was completely unfamiliar with the PS3 when he started a few months earlier. Even the Xbox1 LDT bus tap by Andrew "bunnie" Huang was orders of magnitude more complicated, and yet he pulled it off in 2001.

As a console hacker myself, I know quite a few others, and I can definitely say that interest in hacking the PS3 was near nonexistent before the Slim came out (sans Other OS), except for a couple Linux folks trying to poke holes in the hypercall interface to get access to the GPU.

Re:Par for the course?

[Vectormatic]

AFAIK the nintendo DS doesnt have firmware upgrades, not sure about the DSi though

but that's all i can really think off to be honest, off course your PC doesnt REQUIRE bios upgrades to run new games, but they might be beneficial for the entire system as a whole

Re:Par for the course?

[Idiomatick]

Totally true.

Though I don't think pro-piracy crackers are BAD. I think many of them are pretty damn good. But their skill set is very different. They can get into games and sites and reverse engineer lots of bits of software. BUT to crack a ps3 you need very high level hardware cracking skills. Totally different things. You also likely need some amount of money if you might end up breaking a ps3 or 10. Crackers are generally not wealthy people. Really though I think it is like saying "That celloist is a terrible artist; he can't even draw a good portrait of me!"

Re:Par for the course?

[marcansoft]

I can only speak from my experience in Wii hacking, but I can safely say that the dude who "developed" wii softmod piracy on the Wii did so by duct-taping together existing homebrew in a very poor way. He can barely reverse engineer software and he hasn't contributed a single breakthrough to the hacking community - all he does is leech off of homebrew and present his duct-taped solutions and GUIs as breakthroughs. At the same time, he doesn't understand the implications of what he does, nor does he properly comprehend the system architecture, and he also doesn't bother with safety. This conspires to make Wii softmod particularly dangerous to the uninitiated, as you're almost guaranteed to permanently brick your Wii if you blindly do stuff, and still dangerous even for experienced pirates, as some of his tools just flat out randomly brick consoles for no reason at all.

The day he preannounced his USB loader for the Wii (something highly predictable, as someone had recently released high-speed USB drivers for homebrew), I decided to carry out an exercise and see how long it would take me to build the core functionality by doing what he does - duct-tape together existing modules and tools. The answer is that what is widely considered to be his major breakthrough amounts to 6 hours of actual work, plus polish and a bad GUI. I had a video proof-of-concept going before he even had a chance to release his loader.

It might be different on other consoles; that I do not know.

Re:Par for the course?

[slimjim8094]

Depends. My Dad had a story about how he bought a VCR from a slightly shady place about 20 years ago. When he plugged it in, it didn't work. He took it back for a refund, and they wouldn't take it. He called AMEX from a payphone and told them the story, and the rep told them "take it inside and try to return it again. If they don't take it, leave it on the counter and leave".

He got his chargeback. So it's not necessarily fraud. But the GP makes it sound like it.

Re:Par for the course?

[Aphoxema]

No, there is one word to explain that: blu-ray. It's the same reason there as very little DVD movie piracy in the mid-late 90's (very few people had burners and security cracks yet).

I partly counter your example with UMDs; absolutely no one has UMD burners yet the PSP has been an extremely convenient medium for playing games unlicensed, along with other homebrew software.

What is especially different between movies and games is movies can be reformatted into smaller sizes. Those 5 gigs of video can be turned into a few hundred megs which is easier to disseminate online. Games, though, can only have content taken out and some aspects of it compressed or reformatted.

Since dual-layer Blu-Rays are 50 gigs it's a little more daunting of a task, even with the 250 gig drives the PS3 slim has available. Even if someone were to plug in a 500 gig drive that's still only ~8 large games they can fit on the system at a time.

Surely, though, after custom firmware is finally developed, people will find ways to reliably use external hard drives with several terabytes of space.

So you're right, the difficulty in working with large amounts of data set back unlicensed DVD copying a decade, but once technology caught up it was no trouble at all. Even now it's quite manageable to copy Blu-Rays, in a few years the data will be even easier to handle.

Re:Par for the course?

[marcansoft]

That's not a solution to this issue (in fact, it's worse than using a proxy to continue logging in with 3.15). This initiates a cat-and-mouse game with Sony, which will end with annoyed and/or banned users. It also voids the warranty on your console.

As a PS3 Linux user, I don't consider this even remotely as good as the old situation. Sure, functionally at this point in time it might be OK, but the whole point of an officially supported homebrew mode is that it's officially supported. Homebrew after Sony's move was bound to happen and I don't doubt that Other OS will come back, but now the PS3 is effectively like the other consoles - yet another closed platform where hackers play a cat-and-mouse game with the vendor.

I still blame both geohot and Sony for this situation. Geohot for releasing a hack with no useful initial value just to up his ego and get some more media coverage (as if he hasn't had enough already) without thinking about the consequences, and Sony for reacting the way they did. When I was working on the Wii, we were very careful about releases, attempted to establish communications with Nintendo (that didn't work out, but we tried), and thought about the consequences before releasing anything, both in terms of vendor reaction and in terms of usefulness vs. danger for users.

Personally, I am looking into possible legal action against Sony (I think they move isn't legal). If that doesn't work out, I'll just stay on 3.15 with a networking hack until that stops working. Even as a console hacker, it'll take more than a clumsy firmware patch to convince me to void the warranty on my expensive console just because Geohot and Sony pissed each other off. Maybe in a year or so, when my warranty is up, or when something useful comes out of this huge mess, whichever comes first.

Just like every other FW update they do

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, every single system update brings out dozens of "complaints" how it bricked their system. You'll note the very low number of posts against each of these user in the forums too, creating their account to troll or complain is the question? You get the same thing when major games are released. Trolls or genuine reports has never been determined because no one ever follows up the complaints with real people to determine validity, but nevertheless, people write these problems "stories".

Re:Just like every other FW update they do

[RogueyWon]

There's a degree of truth of this. I've noticed that if I research any purchase online, I always have to employ a mental "negativity filter" to reflect the fact that by and large, it's unhappy people who post on these forums. My "fat" PS3 has been updated (reluctantly) for several days and has had no problems (touch wood) - unless you count the loss of functionality that I had never used, but had liked knowing was there.

However, firmware updates do genuinely seem to have a habit of causing problems with the current console generation. I've had a 360 and a Wii both brick on me after firmware updates (the 360 booted up once, then RRODed within 60 seconds, the Wii just refused to give anything other than a blank screen) and looking around my immediate circle of friends (excluding myself), we've had a PS3, a PSP, a 360 and two Wiis brick immediately after firmware updates. There was a further 360 that RRODed without a firmware update.

There does seem to be a serious problem with the current console generation (and I do mean all three machines here). The failure rates are way above what I'd consider acceptable. I live in mortal terror of my PS3 dying, as it's an imported US original 60 gig model, so if it dies, I don't just need to get a new PS3, but also to import a new PS2 (or check out how good the emulation scene is these days, I guess). By contrast, there's an old Commodore 64 in my parents' attic which still more or less worked when I fired it up the Christmas before last (though the 2 missing keys on the keyboard make it difficult to use, and the tape drive was erratic at best) and a 286 which still works if you give it a smack on the side at boot-up to get the HDD spinning.

This always happens

[Anonymous Coward]

Over the life of my PS3, updates have commonly caused severe issues. I've had to reformat the hard drive several times and I even had to send it in to be "repaired" after updating. Sony really needs to work on not breaking their own system.

interesting...

[X0563511]

Sony shoots one foot while trying to shoot the other...

I don't really have much to add that doesn't get beaten-to-death any other time Sony is brought up.

Is this even legal?

[Dialecticus]

I wonder whether the intentional removal of a major feature which was present at time of purchase, and which for many was the primary reason for said purchase, is in any way actionable.

Re:Is this even legal?

[moniker]

IANAL

The FTC needs to step into this. I filed a complaint with the FTC earlier this week, it only takes a few minutes, so please do the same if you are a PS3 FAT owner unless you enjoy losing features you paid for. Judging that any post I make on the playstation blog containing the word FTC is instantly censored by string matching, I believe this is what Sony is afraid of.

From the FTC statement on unfairness, "To justify a finding of unfairness the injury must satisfy three tests."
source: http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/policystmt/ad-unfair.htm

1. must be substantial - otheros was #2 reason why I purchased the PS3. #1 was bluray. Launch games for the PS3 pretty much sucked. I wanted an all-in-one media box. I figured if media didn't work well in PS3 os, Linux was my backup plan.

2. not be outweighed by other benefits - Prior to firmware 3.21, I could run Linux and connect to PSN. Today I cannot connect to PSN, play Warhawk, or be assured that future BD's or games will work. No benefits were added with firmware 3.21, much less benefits that would outweigh the loss of otheros. System security as a benefit is hypothetical. Hotz created a proof of concept, not a mod chip or a virus.

3. could not be avoided - Due to Sony's use of DRM, I cannot avoid losing features... either otheros or the use of current and future software and BDs. (I am still running 3.20, by the way.)

For more recent FTC statements regarding DRM....

"Mary Engle, an FTC Acting Deputy Director, .... referenced the Sony BMG rootkit debacle, saying that "sellers who use DRM technology to enforce the terms of bargains with consumers need to be particularly careful to disclose in advance" what those bargains are.

And just stuffing the disclosure into the fine print of an End User License Agreement (EULA) isn't good enough. "If your advertising giveth and your EULA taketh away," she said, "don't be surprised if the FTC comes calling."

She stressed that it was not permissible for companies to play Lucy to consumers' Charlie Brown, holding the football and promising that this time she won't yank it away at the last minute. "

source: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/03/ftc-well-come-calling-about-deceptive-drm.ars

My $0.02

[Pojut]

Our 250GB PS3 Slim has been fine after the latest update...no freezing or game launching problems. I can't RTFA due to work filters, but I would imagine that this update wouldn't cause problems with Slim PS3s anyway, since out of the box you already can't install Linux on there.

Can anyone tell me if TFA says anything about Slim PS3s?

No Issues

[kenp2002]

Installed the update.
Still can stream by TV shows from my media server to the PS3 no problems.
My online purchased Burnout Paradise works just fine.
Watched Ironman on Blu-Ray, no issues.
Bayonetta works just fine as does Eternal Sonata, Guitar Hero 3, Disegia, and Soul Calibur.

Not one issue. Since I have not had a problem with mine, and as the FUD article clearly states 'since I as a small minority of millions of units out there must clearly speak for all units' and as such there are no problems with bricking as a result of this patch.

Or as reality indicates: The bricked units fall within the norm of bricked units without the patch. Units die all the time as a % of the existing units. NOTHING in the article nor any other outlet indicates that there is an increased number of functional units suddenly becoming bricked as a result of the patch itself. I don't dispute that may be the case, but this garbage posing as news doesn't indicate that. THE FUD Factory (aka the poster) says a STORM of complains but the linked article only states a few but doesn't cite a source, forum, anything...

Some users are reporting infinite loops where the installation routine never completes, others are complaining about the inability to use a variety of different controllers during the process.

Reporting where? Forums, Sony, Phone, Telepathy? SOME USERS IS NOT A STORM. Why can't we start banning people from slashdot that just make shit up that has nothing to do with the article and fire some of these deadbeat FUD artists (You still here Kdawson? WTF!) for posting this crap. I get enough bullshit from my politicians I don't need it from moderators and editors too...

Standard: Correlation != to Causation disclaimer.

The question is:
did the new firmware break something thus bricking the unit (No otherwise we would have a substantial % of units bricked and 1up, Gamespy, etc would by inindated with Forums 300 pages and 4000 posts in length bitching about their PS3s dying...)

Did the firmware update expose an already existing problem that unit and now, with the patch, bricks the unit (likely if the % of units reporting problems doesn't change, this would prompt Sony to respond rather quickly and shift into damage control real fast)

Did the firmware conflict with some existing software or configuration that now with the patch exposes a conflict rendering the unit a brick? (Possible and most likely but we need to compare the configuration of the bricked units to see what the bricked units have in common with one another but do not have in common with non-bricked units.)

e.g.

Sample A (Working) has AABBAA
Sample B (Bricks) has ACCBBA
Sample C (Working) has ACBAA

We could determine that possibly the firmware conflicts with having CC in the mix (whatever CC may be) in contrast to a single C. But privacy concerns would limit a company from auditing (even anonymously) the inventory of a game console.

A: Taco... READ THE ARTICLE THE POSTER IS CITING AND IF THEY DON'T MATCH UP, DON'T POST FUD!

B: Stoobalou QUIT MAKING SHIT UP IN YOUR SUMMARY. A STORM != SOME USERS. It's called FACT CHECKING. TRY IT

Re:Yeah, and you can go to jail for it

[commodore64_love]

>>>Far better to sue.

Yeah that will go well. I'll spend a couple thousand dollars fighting Sony for the next ~8 years over a $300 console. And most likely - lose.

I prefer to not put myself through that hell. I prefer to take the easy route of going through my Credit card's protection program (if the item does not work, and customer has proof-of-return, the retailer's agreement REQUIRES a refund).