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Sony Update Bricks Playstations

Stoobalou writes "A controversial update which was seeded by Sony in order to remove the ability to run Linux on the Playstation 3 games console has caused a storm of complaints. The 3.21 firmware upgrade, which removes the security hole provided by the 'Install Other OS' widget used by lots of educational institutions and hackers alike, also removes the console's ability to play games... turning it into a very expensive doorstop."

28 of 510 comments (clear)

  1. Par for the course? by bjourne · · Score: 4, Interesting

    So is there any console or other electronic gadget you can buy nowadays which does not include forced locked own firmware updates that has the possibility of breaking it? Both Xbox360 and the Wii are just as locked down as the PS3.

    1. Re:Par for the course? by elrous0 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      No, there is one word to explain that: blu-ray. It's the same reason there as very little DVD movie piracy in the mid-late 90's (very few people had burners and security cracks yet).

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    2. Re:Par for the course? by commodore64_love · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes. In addition to a PS3, X360, and Wii there's also the iPhone and iPad that can be bricked via forced updates. Also certain DVRs and Bluray/HDDVD gadgets. I've also heard complaints about DTVpals being bricked by the Dish Company's updates.

      And my response?

      - Call Sony to demand restitution for the PS3 they broke.
      - Wait.
      - If no response to repair or replace the broken PS3, then I'd buy a new PS3 from some store (like amazon or walmart), put the bricked one inside the box, then return it as defective ("It just won't turn on. No I don't want an exchange; I want a refund."). The store would eventually return it to Sony who would have to deal with the property THEY destroyed.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    3. Re:Par for the course? by tagno25 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I cannot brick my Android phone. Event deleting the firmware it still boots to the flash loader.

    4. Re:Par for the course? by bami · · Score: 4, Informative

      "put the bricked one inside the box, then return it as defective"

      That's fraud, also, I think they print the serial of the PS3 on the receipt so they wont match when returning it.

    5. Re:Par for the course? by marcansoft · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, there are two words to explain that: Other OS. Check out this table (slightly outdated, it's a year old or so) by console hacker Michael Steil (or watch him talk about it on any of his talks). Every console post-PS2 was hacked for homebrew, and then those hacks were abused for piracy. The PS3 comes with homebrew, therefore there is little motivation to crack the native system. Pro-piracy people are rarely good hackers, and need homebrew to piggyback on. In fact, the reason the PS3 was recently attacked was neither homebrew nor piracy; instead, geohot attacked it solely as an ego boost and to get media coverage (note how he hasn't even tried to develop a useful application for his exploit, such as GPU access under Linux).

      Blu-ray is a minor inconvenience. There are a myriad potential ways of copying PS3 games that don't involve blu-ray discs.

      Sony are shooting themselves in the foot by removing Other OS, and pissing off legitimate customers on top of it.

    6. Re:Par for the course? by commodore64_love · · Score: 4, Insightful

      >>>That's fraud

      Yes it IS fraud for Sony (or any other company) to destroy people's personal property. As I said I would follow proper procedure and give Sony an opportunity to do the right thing (repair/replace), but if they don't I will not just sit on the property THEY destroyed and do nothing.

      I'm tired of corporations running over citizens as if they were smashed squirrels on the road to wealth. Oh and also dipping into taxpayer wallets by giving themselves free handouts (Congressional bills). I will do what I feel is necessary to protect myself from loss.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    7. Re:Par for the course? by Sporkinum · · Score: 4, Informative

      Not only that, it's primarily fat PS3's that are bricking. I don't think they sell those anymore.

      --
      "He's lost in a 'floyd hole"
    8. Re:Par for the course? by marcansoft · · Score: 5, Interesting

      And yet the PS3 isn't tougher to hack in the way geohot has (certainly not given Other OS). Look at geohot's hack: it's a simple RAM glitch, much like the one tmbinc pioneered over 2 years ago on the Wii ("twiizer attack"). Now that hacks are out for all consoles, we can compare the relative difficulty. Compare the PS3 (plaintext hypervisor in RAM, no hashing) to the Xbox 360 (encrypted hypervisor in RAM, hashing, encrypted executables). Both consoles have good security, but the PS3 hack is significantly simpler than 360 hacks from a technical perspective (drive hacks notwithstanding - that's a whole different ballgame). That's also confirmed given how little time it took geohot to get it to work, even though he was completely unfamiliar with the PS3 when he started a few months earlier. Even the Xbox1 LDT bus tap by Andrew "bunnie" Huang was orders of magnitude more complicated, and yet he pulled it off in 2001.

      As a console hacker myself, I know quite a few others, and I can definitely say that interest in hacking the PS3 was near nonexistent before the Slim came out (sans Other OS), except for a couple Linux folks trying to poke holes in the hypercall interface to get access to the GPU.

    9. Re:Par for the course? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Recently, as a reward for getting straight 'A's I took my son to a CompUSA and told him he could have any computer he wanted. Imagine my disgust when he selected a mac mini. It's as if I took him to a whorehouse for his first lay and he wound up giving head to the bouncer. Where did I fail as a father?

    10. Re:Par for the course? by marcansoft · · Score: 5, Informative

      Yes, that part of the table is wrong (IMO it should read 12 months or whatever). However, this warrants some explanation.

      Since the advent of drive modifications and consoles with signed executables, piracy has split into two camps: drive modification, and software modification. The latter implies homebrew and always piggybacks on homebrew, and is mostly what I refer to in my GP post. However, drive modifications are a different story. They mostly appeared when drive firmware patches delivered via homebrew on the GameCube were ported by modchip manufacturers to be delivered via an alternate serial port on the drive. The GC/Wii's drives are outsourced to Matshita, and they didn't bother to fix the hole in the GameCube. Paraphrasing tmbinc, "The GameCube had a connector on the drive board that might as well have been labeled 'insert modchip here'. With the Wii, they fixed this problem by removing the old connector... and replacing it with a new one".

      Therefore, it is safe to say that DVD (drive) piracy on the Wii was there from the very beginning - not because the modchip makers are good, but because modchips were trivially ported over from the GameCube. On the other hand, softmod piracy on the Wii started, as usual, by piggybacking on homebrew.

      The reason that drive mods are popular is because manufacturers have neglected that part of console security - they made their software secure, but didn't properly secure the drive. If you can convince a drive that a burned game is legit, then there's nothing that the console software can do about it. In order to fix this, you need to improve drive security and couple it to system security.

      The Wii is the worst example - the drive bus is in plaintext and unauthenticated. This is why HDD-to-drive physical adapters are coming out from modchip makers.

      The 360 is better, but the drives are essentially off-the-shelf PC drives. Although they're trying hard to detect and ban mods, and there's some crypto going on, the drives are still pretty insecure.

      The PS3 is different; as far as I know, the BD drive is custom, secure, and much better coupled to the system.

      So, to conclude and better explain things: the PS3 avoided commercial drivechips by having good drive security (something sorely lacking on other consoles), and avoided noncommercial software piracy by removing the incentive for homebrewers to hack the system (which will inevitably happen otherwise, as has been proven time and time again).

    11. Re:Par for the course? by marcansoft · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I can only speak from my experience in Wii hacking, but I can safely say that the dude who "developed" wii softmod piracy on the Wii did so by duct-taping together existing homebrew in a very poor way. He can barely reverse engineer software and he hasn't contributed a single breakthrough to the hacking community - all he does is leech off of homebrew and present his duct-taped solutions and GUIs as breakthroughs. At the same time, he doesn't understand the implications of what he does, nor does he properly comprehend the system architecture, and he also doesn't bother with safety. This conspires to make Wii softmod particularly dangerous to the uninitiated, as you're almost guaranteed to permanently brick your Wii if you blindly do stuff, and still dangerous even for experienced pirates, as some of his tools just flat out randomly brick consoles for no reason at all.

      The day he preannounced his USB loader for the Wii (something highly predictable, as someone had recently released high-speed USB drivers for homebrew), I decided to carry out an exercise and see how long it would take me to build the core functionality by doing what he does - duct-tape together existing modules and tools. The answer is that what is widely considered to be his major breakthrough amounts to 6 hours of actual work, plus polish and a bad GUI. I had a video proof-of-concept going before he even had a chance to release his loader.

      It might be different on other consoles; that I do not know.

    12. Re:Par for the course? by NatasRevol · · Score: 5, Funny

      Where did I fail as a father?

      Taking your son to CompUSA...or a whorehouse.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
  2. Just like every other FW update they do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Yes, every single system update brings out dozens of "complaints" how it bricked their system. You'll note the very low number of posts against each of these user in the forums too, creating their account to troll or complain is the question? You get the same thing when major games are released. Trolls or genuine reports has never been determined because no one ever follows up the complaints with real people to determine validity, but nevertheless, people write these problems "stories".

  3. Not Bricked But.... by p1r4t3 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Ever since the update I've had issues with games freezing up on me. I haven't noticed any real slow down of the net connection or any issues with PSN. But if this is a ploy by Sony to get me to give up my thick PS3 that has the ability to play PS2 games then they better add that functionality to the slim PS3 because I'm not about to go out and buy 2 consoles just to have the same functionality as the one I have now.

  4. Definition of 'Brick'? by derrickh · · Score: 5, Informative

    The article doesnt describe bricking. It barely describes real problems. It describes (rather vaguely) sluggish internet and third party controllers not working. And it never actually shows or links to actual complaints. The only real information in the article is that people who dont install the update can't connect to PSN, which is standard for these updates.

    D

  5. Sony is a shell company by For+a+Free+Internet · · Score: 4, Funny

    It's a front for the Iraqi-Italian axis and this "bricking" is part of their war on the Christian American Family. What we need is Communism, and ham.

    --
    UNITE with the Campaign for a Free Internet because today, our future begins with tomorrow!
  6. Re:Haven't Installed it by somersault · · Score: 4, Informative

    It's fine if you want to play games. And the update is required if you want to play online games.

    Both my and my flatmate's PS3 went through the update with no problems. It only becomes a "very expensive doorstop" if you don't use it to play games, or watch DVDs and blu-rays, the article is a bit flamebaitish because we already knew this would happen, and the update has a page which specifically informs you about the removal of the Other OS feature and then confirms (I think twice) that you really want to go through with it.

    --
    which is totally what she said
  7. Is this even legal? by Dialecticus · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I wonder whether the intentional removal of a major feature which was present at time of purchase, and which for many was the primary reason for said purchase, is in any way actionable.

    1. Re:Is this even legal? by brainiac+ghost1991 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well, then if you don't do the update they've removed another major feature (PSN connectivity)

  8. Re:No issues here by Neon+Spiral+Injector · · Score: 4, Informative

    Your Linux partition is still there, you just can't make use of the space reserved for it anymore. The only way to recover the space is to do a back up, format, and restore.

  9. Re:This always happens by elrous0 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The problem is that Sony cares way more about locking down and commoditizing their media content with DRM and "security meseasures" than they do about their customers (one of the inherent problems of having a hardware maker who is also a media producer). They're not alone on that (MS and Nintendo are hardly open themselves), but they do seem much more obsessed about it than just about anyone else--short of maybe Apple.

    The problem is that Sony doesn't seem to be thinking much about the fact that their media is only worth something in the first place BECAUSE of their customers. And, if they're not careful, they could very easily lose their balance and fall. After all, the perfect way to produce a piracy-proof blu-ray of a movie or videogame is to simply release it as a blank disc. But no one is going to buy it then, are they?

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
  10. Re:This always happens by Pharmboy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In this respect, even Microsoft does a better job. They have to update a more sophisticated operating system that runs on a HUGE variety of systems and processors. Sony knows 100% the exact software and hardware they are updating on, and 100% of the software that will run on the console, yet they can't manage an update without borking somebody's box. If they worried more about quality than piracy or someone running linux on their hardware, they might actually be able to produce a decent product some day.

    --
    Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
  11. Re:Will Sony replace bricked PS3s caused by update by HopefulIntern · · Score: 5, Informative

    If you are in the UK you don't need to worry about warranty; I have recently discovered the Sale of Goods Act, which means with or without warranty they would have to replace it because it is less than 6 years old.

  12. Is it bricked bricked or... by Duradin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It is archaic definition bricked or "inconvenient to repair" bricked, as is the new usage.

    Given that "literally" is the new figuratively it's hard to tell what people mean these days.

  13. Re:Bitter Xbox Fanboys Over The RRoD Fiasco by wjousts · · Score: 4, Funny

    a bunch of foaming at the mouth nutcases desperate to smear other consoles.

    Pot calling kettle, come in kettle.

  14. Re:Haven't Installed it by somersault · · Score: 4, Informative

    TFA explained that the update tended to stop the affected units from doing anything useful - eg. playing games, connecting to the Internet. Which I'm sure does have the side effect that installing an alternate OS will no longer work, but I don't think this is quite how most people interpreted Sony's original description.

    The article says that is the case for people who have not installed the update. That has been the case every time Sony releases an update (apart from a couple of non essential updates such as the one that updated the slideshow facility). It is not news.

    The only real bit of news in there is that some people are experiencing infinite loops in the update process, which does suck.

    --
    which is totally what she said
  15. And why do you care? by gillbates · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Honestly. It's their hardware.

    Look I understand that you "thought" you became the owner when you forked over the cash. But that's not how corporate America works these days. For a given amount of green, you get to place a Sony-owned piece of hardware in your living room, and play it until Sony decides it's obsolete. You then get to put it in the garbage, give Sony some more money, and replace it with another box with even less features. And to top it off, you rebuy all of the games you liked to play.

    I know it sounds cynical, but this is how the console market works. Unless you're using FOSS on open hardware, you don't really own it anymore. There are EULAs to contend with, the DMCA and DRM, and the ever-increasing term of copyright.

    If you don't want the pitfalls of proprietary hardware, don't buy it.

    --
    The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.