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Photos of Chinese Sweatshop Used By Microsoft
MongooseCN has a follow-up to last week's Chinese Sweatshop story. He says "The image Microsoft doesn't want you to see: Too tired to stay awake. These Chinese workers earn just 34p an hour (about 52 cents in US dollars), work 15-hour shifts, and deal with other abuses to package US-made products."
Welcome to Earth.
I think the difference here is, while you were doing this:
1) You made 0.52USD in a fraction of an hour
2) You could have quit and found another programming job, most likely within a drivable distance from where you live.
-Will P.
Wal-Mart profits too much from their form of slavery to ask for decency(even if it gets rid of those pesky labor unions in the US).
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
Unless they are being forced to work in this factory as literal slaves, the fact that they're doing it probably means it's the best option available. By all means lean on the factory to improve conditions, but before taking the business elsewhere for the sake of the employees, find out what the employees would do otherwise. Work in an even worse factory? Become prostitutes? Starve?
Step into a huge movement. Don't Tread In Me.
I know we always want to bash Microsoft here at Slashdot, but did the submitter fail to notice Foxconn (Apple's supplier), Hewlett-Packard, Samsung, Acer, Logitech and Asus all use this same manufacturing house? How about:
"Photos of Chinese Sweatshop Used By US Tech Companies"
I guess that just doesn't have the same bite? At least it's more accurate.
I've toured several Asian factories and this is the reality of Asian work life. People live in factory dormatories, work 6 VERY long days a week, and sleep at their desks when they get tired. We can pretend that we're shocked, but we all know that goods from Asia are dirt cheap and yet we never seem to ask "WHY"? Is this willful blindness? Until we start imposing tariffs based on unequal labour standards, this will never change.
These Chinese workers earn just 34p an hour (about 52 cents in US dollars), work 15 hours shifts
The $.52 is meaningless; how much does an apartment cost? What is the price of food? When I was in Thailand in the USAF in 1974, the average wage was about $1,000/yr, but I rented a bungalow for $30/month (woman included), and could take three girls to a nice restaraunt for a dollar. It cost a nickle to go anywhere.
How many hours a day do American Microsoft programmers work?
It isn't just the Chinese who are being exploited, it's also the Americans whose jobs have been exported to China, and maybe even their American staff.
Free Martian Whores!
I think that this is more the point:
They are not allowed to talk or listen to music, are forced to eat substandard meals from the factory cafeterias, have no bathroom breaks during their shifts and must clean the toilets as discipline, according to the NLC.
The workers also sleep on site, in factory dormitories, with 14 workers to a room. They must buy their own mattresses and bedding, or else sleep on 28in-wide plywood boards. They 'shower' with a sponge and a bucket.
And many of the workers, because they are young women, are regularly sexually harassed, the NLC claimed.
The organisation said that one worker was even fined for losing his finger while operating a hole punch press.
At least here in northern Europe it got better when we formed labor unions and associated political parties, then we got new laws that protected the workers against the worst abuse. This is about a hundred years ago so not many people remembers it directly anymore, which is widely evident in political discussions today. Sure it can get to far the other way and we end up with ridiculous worker rights like full pension when your 50 and stuff like that. But profit seeking companies will not give their worker fair wages and decent working conditions unless they absolutely have to.
How is this gonna happen in China?
Correct me if I am wrong, but is it not still a one party state and "workers paradise"?
What does $0.52/hr mean relative to cost of living? Maybe it's horrific abuse. Maybe it's reasonable. I certainly didn't have much money left after living in those days.
My point is before we all BBQ MS, all the facts are needed.
..don't panic
Did you have have sick days and vacation?
Health benefits for you and your family?
Regulations for workplace health and safety?
Did you have labour laws to protect you?
Were you allowed to sleep at home? Did you even read the article?
I don't know how old you are, but you have forgotten all the principles for which the citizens who lived before you fought and died. If you're young, you have MUCH to learn because your education has been a failure. If you are old, you have even given up thinking or given up compassion.
Rich And Stupid is not so bad as Working For Rich And Stupid.
It may surprise many people who don't take naps, but there are in fact a lot of people who do - even in full view of others. /. - shocking to some, normal to others.
Not much different from eating lunch at your desk while checking
Move along.
Can we get a "-1 Wrong" moderation option?
Exactly. It's normal work culture in China. This is nothing but western spin trying to make Microsoft look like the devil.
I mean, I'm not fond of them either, but.... I was going to say they should stop at outright lies but this is journalism after all.
Ezekiel 23:20
All of China is the same, all products from there are made in some sort of sweatshop, or semi slavery condition. These people's backbones are what holds up the China boom. It's all based on cheap labor and no rights-no laws which add costs. England did the same at one time. It's the logical conclusion of a society where everything is measured in money terms. Slaves are the ultimate efficient factory "technology"- intelligent human labor, no cost. The economy, competition, lower costs pressure, demand this. Socialism or capitalism, it's the same, they are societies where production of stuff and money is king, human beings and everything else are at the service of these priorities. We need to get past the capitalism-or-socialism two sides of the same coin, and look to other alternatives, humanism is my favorite, but there are others too.
Build your own energy sources from scratch. http://otherpower.com/
In 1945, the minimum wage in the US was ... 40 cents an hour. The minimum wage in the US is currently at $7.25/hour (more in some states) but in terms of actual buying power, that's less than the $0.45/hour. That's inflation (caused by printing and borrowing money) and China doesn't have it.
In Ohio, the minimum wage is $7.30. This means that someone working 40 hours/week would earn roughly $14,600 a year. Our GDP per capita is about $48,000, so someone earning minimum wage is getting about 30% of the average. In china, GDP per capita is $3,266. Someone earning 50 cents/hour, working 40 hours a week, earns $1,000 US a year. Hey, look at that, right about 30%. So, these factory workers are basically earning the equivalent minimum wage in china (*if* scaling based on GDP is appropriate). This is to say nothing about actual cost of living, or the actual working conditions, but dollar for dollar if we expect someone in the US to work for $7.30 an hour when the average is much higher, we should have no problem expecting someone in China to work for $.50 an hour considering what everyone else makes.
that the majority are from uncaring scumbags defending these working conditions. Not sure why, but I just expected differently from the slashdot crowd.
Well, the problem is that the FA is from the Daily Mail, which makes Fox look like respectable journalism.
I'm mostly pissed that the guy making the mice is getting paid $0.52/hr but I have to pay $16 plus shipping to get one?!! I'm OUTRAGED! I don't think this would be such a big deal if the greedy corporations actually passed down some of the savings to us.
Yes, because of the pesky labor unions in the US, I can see a mouse needing to cost $16 if made here because some high-school dropout is entitled and thinks he should get $25/hr for putting self-adhesive feet on mice. But if you saving money on labor, how about the customer saves money too?
When modding "Informative", please make sure it both has a source and IS actually informative.
Yes, why blame Microsoft? The root cause of these working conditions falls squarely on the Chinese government and Chinese culture.
First is the cost of an xbox, or whatever, a major part of our overall expenses? I think I am fairly typical, and my biggest expenses - by far - have been: income tax, mortgage, health care, education, and retirement. Lowering the cost of computer mice, or toaster overs, does very little, if anything, to lower my overall cost of living.
Does lowering the cost of labor even lower our cost of goods? In the 1980s, when auto manufacturing was shifted from US workers making $15 to hour, to offshore workers making $0.35 an hour, did the cost of cars go down significantly?
Offshoring labor certainly causes inhumane worker conditions, and causes high unemployment in the west. But I don't see where offshoring labor is helping the average US citizen at all.
So why don't we stop buying goods that manufactured offshored? For one thing, we often have no choice, and we don't even know. For example, is an all-Americans Dell computer really made in the USA?
For another thing, I think it has to do with a lack of solidarity. If I personally stopped buying goods made offshore, it would not amount to anything. If several million people made an organized effort, that might get somebody's attention.
Maybe because the media likes to lie and spin these things to seem worse than they are? Maybe because using loaded language, such as referring to this job as a "prison", even though the workers *choose* to work there, is ugly and underhanded? Maybe because, without context, this kind of outrage is largely meaningless? Maybe because the article notably *doesn't* mention: cost of living, wage relative to other jobs in the area, surveys of worker satisfaction, etc?
I could go on, but I think I've made my point. I mean, christ, this is the Daily Mail we're talking about here, a tabloid of the worst sort. You'll forgive me if I take any reports they make with an *extremely* large grain of salt.
And if she quits, she can find something else to do, or you will support her as necessary. There's a fairly large difference between the UK and China. In China, these people would have absolutely nothing instead of just a tiny bit more than nothing.
That's hardly original. Why do you think you felt the need to point out that argument which has been used a few hundred million times. What motivated you?
Because any oft-repeated mantra is usually a thought-program designed to control a population; designed to groove a population into one set of ideas.
What that old argument describes isn't Communism. It describes a dictatorship run by a psychopath which took control of a budding system which was never allowed to flourish. Hardly ideal. It's basically a non-argument designed to keep people divided and conquered. What is more curious, however, is that you probably know that already.
I think well-educated community co-operatives without usury and which are disconnected from dictatorial federal oversight are a better plan. And when I say "well-educated", I don't mean propagandized. In particular, people need to be taught how to teach themselves, how to learn without bias and how to accept pure knowledge without knee-jerking. Only in this way can truly sensible systems be implemented without blind spots. Any system of thought which evolves around knee-jerks is going to have weak areas because people who refuse to think about certain ideas and simply pretend they don't exist are going to fall prey to them. In particular, the nature of the sociopathic individual needs to be understood.
I think the way to solve many of the world's problems is simply to weed out all the psychopaths, or to at least recognize their existence and learn how to route around their inherent damage effectively. Until that happens, no system has a chance of flourishing in a manner which leads to the overall health and happiness of a populace.
-FL
Hmm, that's not true, the Apple thing was uncovered by the press well over a year ago, with initial reports on Apple's suppliers using poor labour practices as far back as 2006. See this article for example:
In 2006 there were two separate instances of human rights violations at Apple suppliers. One turned out to be pretty much genuine and one was just too much overtime work. In response to this, Apple began a process of more strictly auditing their suppliers.
It's only this year that they finally owned up to child labour abuses by factories used to develop their products, and they stated the children involved were 15 years old.
Apple didn't "own up to" those abuses, they were discovered by one of Apple's now routine audits. The company had been falsifying the records sent to Apple, but because of the 2006 incidents, Apple now routinely sends representatives to double check. No one made any allegation about that factory or the other two Apple found to be in noncompliance, until Apple themselves discovered the problems.
In contrast, the "children" in the Microsoft case were apparently 17 years old, but seeing as you can work full time at 16 in places like the UK I struggle to see that as child labour.
In the UK children are limited in the hours they can put in. These people were working more than even the law in China allows.
I'd argue that Apple case was in fact worse, simply because they knew about bad working practices for longer, and because the children in their child labour case, really were children.
No, Apple found out about specific plants and acted to fix the problem. MS has been one of the top 5 US tech companies listed as promoting human rights violations in China for the last 8 years. In fact, a report came out earlier this year urging people not to buy from them because of the repeated abuses.
That's not to absolve the others of blame, but the GP was right, Apple is at least as bad...
Apple has taken action. They are regularly auditing plants. They absolved contracts and financially punished other plants. That is exactly what we want them to be doing. Microsoft on the other hand, does nothing. When was the last time you heard about an MS audit of their manufacturing partners and them requiring changes? MS relies on public outrage not being strong enough so they ignore the problem.
I'd argue the only real solution is for these companies home governments to start penalising companies over it.
Or, magical unicorns could solve the problem. Get real. We're talking about what we as consumers and voters can actually do, and that includes not buying anything from companies that don't work diligently to stop abuses within their foreign supply chains. You're just being lazy and trying to pass the buck.
Let's face it though- this is why outsourcing is such a big fad amongst large companies nowadays, because it's just a legalised method of gaining access to sweatshop manufacturing, something that is often banned in their home countries because it tends to breach inconvniences like the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
It doesn't have to be sweatshops. For only a small increase you can gain access to reasonably paid labor in markets where cost of living is much, much less. Companies will do that if we as consumers make them by refusing to put up with this freedom hating, human exploitation. You attempt to equivocate and lay the blame elsewhere but you have the power to buy from companies that are doing something and who are investigating and stopping human rights abuses. Do you care enough about human suffering to do it?
That's a tough one. I guess I'd have to say that the tone is intentionally sarcastic, but the general message is quite serious.
Tell ya what, I'll just rephrase it so it's easier for you to understand:
Your point was stupid, and your wording dishonest. People who consent to work for a wage are by definition not slaves. All human endeavors require trade-offs, and it's up to the individual to decide whether a particular trade is worthwhile. Likewise, human welfare is relative - work conditions which might seem barbaric to, say, Paris Hilton, would seem quite normal to you and me. Any employment which is voluntary and provides a higher standard of living than would exist in the ABSENCE of such employment is, therefore, a Good Thing.
Hope that helps!
Yes, why blame Microsoft? The root cause of these working conditions falls squarely on the Chinese government and Chinese culture.
They profit by hiring these companies to force workers into inhumane situations. They certainly share much of the blame for not requiring their suppliers uphold basic human rights and for lying by telling us in their corporate policies that such is the case. MS has the power to stop this. As customers of MS you have the power to stop this. As voters in the country where MS is based you have the power to stop this. The question is, do you care or are you an apathetic lazy american who won't take action that inconveniences you to help their fellow man?
It’s funny how you conveniently failed to mention that this practice wasn’t ONLY conducted by Microsoft, and that HP, Dell, Asus, and many other hardware manufacturers outsource to the same company, and that out of all those companies, only Microsoft is taking action to investigate the reports.
Pictures. I agree it's a problem that extends to nearly every U.S. company that relies on Chinese manufacturing, but MS is the one that's forced to try and save face because the pictures allowed people to actually see the conditions. It's kind of like how there wasn't much outrage over the Korean war, but with Vietnam the media showed people what war really looked like. Apparently it's not enough for people to read about or be aware of inhumanity, it has to be shown before they even pretend to give a damn.
"From the depths of my skeptical and rationalist soul, I ask the Lord to protect me from California touchie-feeliedom."
It’s funny how you conveniently failed to mention that this practice wasn’t ONLY conducted by Microsoft, and that HP, Dell, Asus, and many other hardware manufacturers outsource to the same company, and that out of all those companies, only Microsoft is taking action to investigate the reports.
That's not funny at all, it's the intention of this human rights campaign. The NLC targeted MS specifically because they were the worst offender and because this particular plant is making products for them, not for the other companies you mention. The NLC report lambasted all those companies and more for doing business with these plants, but needed a single company with a recognizable name in order to pressure any one company to actually take action. They are pressuring MS and MS has said they will look into it, but so far has not done anything about the conditions. Hopefully the average american's attention span won't expire before something positive is done.
Absolutely correct! They are MUCH more likely to work against human rights so they can get cheap labor closer to home. If they could get away with it they would breed Epsilons just like Brave new World.
For the Betas and Gammas, Prozac is the new Soma.