ArenaNet's MMO Design Manifesto

An anonymous reader writes "ArenaNet studio head Mike O'Brien has posted his vision for a new type of MMORPG, which they used in developing Guild Wars 2. Quoting: 'MMOs are social games. So why do they sometimes seem to work so hard to punish you for playing with other players? If I'm out hunting and another player walks by, shouldn't I welcome his help, rather than worrying that he's going to steal my kills or consume all the mobs I wanted to kill? ... [In Guild Wars 2], when someone kills a monster, not just that player's party but everyone who was seriously involved in the fight gets 100% of the XP and loot for the kill. When an event is happening in the world – when the bandits are terrorizing a village – everyone in the area has the same motivation, and when the event ends, everyone gets rewarded.'"

Comments

Re:Yeah, but....

[Barny]

The idea of free world PvP is an antique that only ever satisfied griefers and the occasional masochist.

Yeah, you just summed up the entire eve player base very very succinctly :)

Re:Yeah, but....

[justinlee37]

Free world PVP also satisfied social gamers. Part of the game is generating and organizing a large social network. If you want to be safe from attack, you need to be bigger and more organized than the next guy. You need military equipment, training and organization. This is how warfare works in the real world and when it works that way in an MMO, it can be fun.

When you have "arena" PVP where the teams are automatically generated by the game itself, it removes the social part of the game. The part of the game where you have to network with other people and organize an army to take control of the free world PVP situation. You might even organize a blockade of critical end-game zones or a siege of a starting city.

EVE online has this sort of spontaneous organization amongst players who are attempting to succeed in free world PVP and obviously the game is quite successful with a niche group at least.

Personally, I love the freedom of free world PVP. In fact, I'd love to play a game with free world PVP and permanent character death ... hardcore Diablo 2 on battle.net was one of the most satisfying experiences ever.

The what of Even?

[SmallFurryCreature]

Eve is tiny, on any chart it rides the bottom. Oh, it gets a LOT of attention but that is in no relation to its financial success.

Most MMO's aspire to higher subscription ratings with 1 million being considered the line between success and an "also ran".

I always find it amusing to see PK and PvP and twitch fans scream that their genre's are OH SO POPULAR and yet not a single game that gives them what they want is a success. Odd that. Why are PK and PvP and Twitch fans not playing the games aimed at them?

Meanwhile, the closest to WoW is Lotro and that is a distinct PvE game of the old mold.

It is like saying people LOVE FPS, when Quake sells 10 copies. The figures would not support the claims.

Re:The what of Even?

[Monkeedude1212]

Most MMO's aspire to higher subscription ratings with 1 million being considered the line between success and an "also ran".

That's where EVE played it differently and were still very successful. They didn't NEED a million subscribers to make a good profit off of supporting their product for a lengthy period of time. They just built their market around the ability to buy additional time codes and sell them in game for in game money.

Essentially, they've diverted the money that would be flooded to chinese farmers back into their own pockets.

Re:The what of Even?

[drsquare]

Most MMO's aspire to higher subscription ratings with 1 million being considered the line between success and an "also ran".

There are not half a dozen MMOs out of hundreds with that number of paying subscribers. Lineage, Warcraft, and I can't think of any others other than those free web ones. Most have maybe six figures if they're lucky.

I always find it amusing to see PK and PvP and twitch fans scream that their genre's are OH SO POPULAR and yet not a single game that gives them what they want is a success. Odd that. Why are PK and PvP and Twitch fans not playing the games aimed at them?

What games are those then? Practically all MMOs are RPG-style PVE. There'd have to be a professionally-made, twitch, PK game to exist in the first place to see how successful it'd be.

Re:The what of Even?

[Anonymous Coward]

Eve is tiny, on any chart it rides the bottom. Oh, it gets a LOT of attention but that is in no relation to its financial success.

Mod parent as complete BS. Here's the charts:

http://www.mmogchart.com/Chart2.html

Eve has the 5th largest subscription base in the world. It is not niche. It is hugely successful and one of the very few MMOG that has a steady increase in subs.

BTW, what are you talking about "aspire to 1 million+ subs"? Hardly any games have broken that. Every game you mention in your post as "popular" has never come close to 1 million subs - EQ, DOAC, AOC, LOTRO, etc... Eve is beating all of those in subs

Re:The what of Even?

[Phrogman]

Every PvP focused MMO that I can think of has died. As vocal as PvPers are, the majority of players who will subscribe to an MMO don't enjoy getting gang-ganked by assholes who play 16 hours a day. Here are the ones I can think of:

* Shadowbane - tried it, it sucked, it died.
* Pirates of the Burning Sea - at first it had tremendous potential, then the ganker assholes got ahold of it and the game became unfun for anyone who wasn't willing to play like a dickhead. Down to a few servers I believe
* Age of Conan - still exists but is not doing well from what I understand. Should have been called "Age of Endless Instance Zoning" from what I could see, hated it, didn't make it past day 2 of attempting play.
* Warhammer Online - all the knowledge they could have drawn from DAOC was available to them, and they completely missed what worked about DAOC and this resulted instead. Uninspiring and ultimately boring and pointless.

I am not a PvP-Rulez-All type. I like PvP gameplay but only when I am playing with people who have a sense of sportsmanship. Most PvPers I have met couldn't spell "Sportsmanship" let alone discover what it means. The exceptions are a joy to play with.

I have enjoyed the PvP in Dark Age of Camelot (still the best MMO ever produced in my opinion, sadly down to 1 server I believe), and Star Wars (as a Bounty Hunter hunting Jedi before the NGE).

Now, EVE has done a great job in their design, but its not exclusively PvP. You can operate in safe space if you want to and play the game for months from what I understand. You only risk getting ganked by asshats if you go into a low security zone. By the time you get there you should have equipped yourself properly and learned how to be an asshat yourself or you will be disappointed.

Playing PvP games with PvPers has convinced me that I no longer want to play PvP games. I met a few excellent people who were great to play beside or against - I met thousands of them in DAOC - but those people have been buried in a sea of people named "IPhukUup" whose greatest joy is to kill a level 1 newbie with a max level character.