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Civilization V To Use Steamworks
sopssa writes "2K Games today announced that Civilization V will be using Steamworks for online matchmaking, automated updates, downloadable content and DRM for the game. Steam's Civ V store page is also available now, revealing some new information about the game. There will be an 'In-Game Community Hub' for online matchmaking, communication, and for sharing scenarios between players. While including Steamworks might put some people off, it might also indicate better online gameplay than in the previous Civilization games, where it was almost impossible to have a good game without playing with just friends."
I always bought CIV, but if this DRM is too restrictive I'll just get it for free.
Why would I pay to have more problems?
I'll wait and see.
Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
That's exactly what I was thinking. I've got a row of boxes sitting on a shelf with Civ1 - 4/Warlords. If they put something on there that is a problem it will be the first cracked version that I've downloaded for free.
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I've use Steam, and not once have I ever had an issue with it. their download/DRM model works rather well and isn't nearly as bad as say, Ubisoft's. I mean, their whole business model is what has made the platform so successful in the first place, so I wouldn't worry about CIV V being on Steam.
I always bought CIV, but if this DRM is too restrictive [...]
It's just steam.
Why would I pay to have more problems?
I don't mind the "Connect once to install the game and play offline for just about ever" system because it comes with the added benefit of "Download the game anywhere you have a connection" that I've used many times.
You can play Steam games in "offline mode". I do so frequently. It works great :)
While I loathe DRM, the Steam DRM is so non-intrusive compared to the competetors that I can live with it just fine. Since I started using Steam a few years ago I have spent more money on games than ever before...
Of all the DRM schemes to use, this is the one I would pick if I had to make a choice as a consumer.
Yup, and the beauty of it is that it actually WORKS :D
And that's exactly the problem with piracy these days. People think that restrictive DRM warrants an illegal download while the only legal solution to your problem would be to simply not play Civ V at all if you don't like the DRM.
Steamworks on other games like Torchlight just serve to add features, not remove then. In Torchlight it redistribute your savegames. So you can start a game on the Netbook, and wen you get home, continue that game on the Desktop.
I don't know you, but this sounds like a good feature to have in Civi.
And you can play Torchlight offline. The whole Steam thing can run offline.
-Woof woof woof!
Totally offtopic moderation curiosity, feel free to ignore.
Several similar posts in this thread, saying essentially "I use steam offline and had no problem with it" have been simultaneously modded exactly once as flamebait. I suspect it's the finest example I've yet seen of a single guy using the "-1 disagree" mod with his entire pool of modpoints. :)
Who modded all the "It's just Steam" posts in this discussion flamebait? From all the DRM systems out there, Steam is the least intrusive one and it actually gives you more value to the game (community, in-game browser, archievements). I take Steam over Ubisoft's intrusive always-online DRM (with nothing to gain) or SecuROM/StarForce that install hidden kernel drivers in your system any day.
Good move, kudos to Sid and company for ignoring the idiotic knee jerk reactions seen on some message boards I won't mention. Requiring occasional (I have gone at least 2 weeks before) access back to Steam as opposed to having to keep track of some number of CD's _and_ being able to have the game installed on multiple PC's is a net positive IMNHO. The improved matchmaking sounds like icing on the cake.
I still play Civilization Call to Power. It is my all time favorite addiction. I don't pull it out often because when I do I can easily play all night and not even realize that dawn has arrived. But I do pull it out occasionally and I'm glad I can play it without worrying about whether the company will still let me.
I guess I'm bad for the games industry by enjoying a game that's so old, but I won't even contemplate buying a game with DRM because I just don't trust that I'd be able to play it long after it stops being the hit new thing.
In most countries if your bank account is compromised there's regulations to protect you.
If on the other hand you have a large number of games the steam admins can simply confiscate your property and you have no recourse.
The most annoying thing is that if you raise the issue of these awful design problems steam fanboys leap in with shit like
"nobody with dialup/tethering plays games"(bonus if they link to a steam poll showing that yes in fact hardly anyone with dialup uses steam),
"THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH STEAM",
"HURR HURR HURR, GET A BETTER ISP"
Etc etc
the fanboys are far far more iritating than the devs.
From all the DRM systems out there, Steam is the least intrusive one and it actually gives you more value to the game (community, in-game browser, archievements).
That's pure fanboy nonsense.
There are many less intrusive DRM systems out there. I've had many games with online activiation DRM systems that ever only showed me a single "activating game once" window that was gone after 5 seconds, never to be seen again.
You complain about DRM systems that install drivers, yet happily install Steam system-wide.
Steam is one of the most intrusive systems out there (forced use of a client, adds a second DRM layer on top of whatever the publisher already has, forced management of game installations, integration into OS, offline mode that wants to go online whenever it feels like it, total dependance on Valve to be able to play games, etc.).
All that community stuff just adds to the burden of the DRM.
Steam is slightly better than the absolute worst of the DRM systems yes, but it still can take all your games away if you so much as look at it funny. Even SecuROM or StarForce can't do that. If you travel with a laptop, I suggest you buy your games somewhere else. Steam has a tendency to lock accounts that log in from multiple IP addresses. 'Cause, you know, that's a crime.
Seriously
Everyone who is slagging off steam, try it before you complain.
I have had ZERO problems with steam, before I was a sceptic and now I am a convert.
The auto-patching auto-updating goodness is worth its weight in gold.
Never had a problem playing offline or whatever.
Rebuild a PC? no issue, unlimited re-downloads, much easier to kick off steam and walk away than dig out masses of discs, then go through hours or hunt and patch, etc.
Games are CHEAP esp if you bag them on sale (GTA4 for 7 bucks USD, Op. Flashpoint Dragon Rising for 5 bucks etc.)
Put it this way: its so good and convenient that I buy games (on sale of course lol) that I can pirate in front of me. I see the pirate bay / rapidshare / usenet link in front of me at the same time as a steam sale. Guess who wins 10/10.
Steam: DRM done right - non intrusive, value added (auto patching, friends lists/voice/matchmaking etc., forget about juggling masses of CDs and cases), cheaper than boxed retail.
If you want to sell a used game then OK you are SOTL but thats the bargain you are making.
Although i haven't experienced it in a long time myself, 'offline mode' on Steam was notoriously picky about letting you play offline.
That's exactly what I was thinking. I've got a row of boxes sitting on a shelf with Civ1 - 4/Warlords. If they put something on there that is a problem it will be the first cracked version that I've downloaded for free.
If it ends up being broken because of DRM, why not buy the game so the developers get their cut and then download the cracked version? You get an easy-to-use version, the developers get their cut, and everyone is happy.
Living With a Nerd
It's not bad. After a while, you'll find that Steam has some distinct benefits.
Like when I buy a new computer, it'll download and install any of the games I want to play.
Agreed. I just built a new computer and reinstalling my steam games was a breeze.
My biggest complaint with steam, which is really with some of the publishers who use it rather than Steam itself, is that some games have extra DRM in addition to Steam such as Games For Windows Live (GFWL). I've only bought one game through Steam that uses GFWL, Red Faction: Guerrilla. I don't recall the Steam purchase page mentioning that I'd need to create a separate account and be signed into it as well in order to play the game but I can't say for sure it wasn't there. What I can say for sure is that it took hours of googling and messing with settings to even get the game to play and when it did run it was buggy and would occasionally crash or randomly pop up the GFWL login screen. After that experience I'll never again buy a game that uses GFWL.
Unfortunately Bioshock 2 is one such game (Steam + Securom + GFWL) and while I had been looking forward to playing it I'm voting with my wallet and staying away from it (while also neither pirating it nor buying a PS3 version).
Overall my experiences with Steam have been positive but like others there's always the concern in the back of my mind that Valve could go under and all my games rendered inaccessible.
IMHO, Civ 4 is a much, much better game than Civ 3, independent of graphics, world geometry, or changes to technology trees. It introduces a bunch of new ideas, and it takes a bunch of ideas that were implemented in a half-baked way in 3 and actually makes them good.
YMMV.
Steam is slightly better than the absolute worst of the DRM systems yes, but it still can take all your games away if you so much as look at it funny. Even SecuROM or StarForce can't do that. If you travel with a laptop, I suggest you buy your games somewhere else. Steam has a tendency to lock accounts that log in from multiple IP addresses. 'Cause, you know, that's a crime.
I call bullshit on that. I regularly use Steam from school, my apartment, and my parents house and on many different machines. My brother also logs into my account to access my game libarary and vice versa.
Really the only ban is for cheating on VAC secured servers and games. Even if you get banned for cheating, it's still possible to play on non VAC secured games and servers.
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Since it is legal by law I buy the game under the assumption that I have the ability to backup it.
When they remove the possibility to do so they sell me a product that doesn't work the way any normal buyer would assume.
The car analogy would be if they sold cars that you couldn't use for drivning.
When you buy a car you assume that you can use it for driving but the law does not explicitly say that you can't sell a car that does not have this ability. (Nontheless it would be considered a scam.)
You can make backups of Steam games, not to mention that you can re-download them as many times as you want, even on different computers. You can also play them offline, so I don't see what your problem is.
You cannot install a steam backup without steam. You cannot use steam without updating it. You cannot update it without a network connection. Thus, you can not restore a steam backup "offline", you can only unpack it. The difference is playability. That's what the problem is.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Can you resell your game?
Can you activate your game without Steam?
If one day Steam goes down, how long will you still be able to play your game?
Can you, with a straight face, and with honesty, claim that a Steam game is 100% under your control? Can you answer this last question without "but"s?
"The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
Why is everyone saying that Steam is non-intrusive? It forces you to install it on your system and constantly whines when you don't have a net connection. Steam is only good if you have a good, reliable broadband connection. I know that encompasses most people now, but there are some people who simply don't have the option. I live in a rural area without broadband access, but *gasp* I enjoy playing games. Back when Half-Life 2 was released, I was still on dialup, and Steam was a MAJOR pain. It would work fine in offline mode for a few days, but then it would decide that it just had to authenticate online again. Unfortunately, after dialing in, Steam told me that I just HAD to download some new 200mb patch in order to play my single player game. Why? I have no idea. So this cycle would continue... some days it would be a never ending cycle of patches, since as soon as I got one finished, Steam would prompt me to download the next one. It took me months to finish a simple game due to that crapware. I have satellite now, which is marginally better because I can at least download patches, but the connection to Steam is still spotty. Besides, I shouldn't NEED to connect to play a single player game that I own. So for all of you who love singing Steam's praises, congratulations. Steam does what you want, and in your mind, the DRM is worth the hassle. That's not the case for me, so I can't support it. As an avid Civ 4 player, this is disappointing.