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Judge Orders Gizmodo Search Warrant Unsealed

gyrogeerloose writes "The same judge who issued the warrant to search Gizmodo editor Jason Chen's apartment has now ordered it unsealed, ruling against the San Mateo County district attorney's office which had argued that unsealing the documents may compromise the investigation." You can read the entire affidavit here (PDF). It has a detailed description of the police investigation that led to the seizure of Chen's computers. It turns out Steve Jobs personally requested that the phone be returned, prompting Gizmodo's Brian Lam to try negotiating for a public acknowledgment that the phone was real. Apple was tipped off to the man who found/stole the prototype by his roommate.

76 of 526 comments (clear)

  1. Re:The cop committed perjury or he's very bad at m by DarkKnightRadick · · Score: 3, Insightful

    best of my knowledge.

    There's the problem.

    --
    "There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death." Proverbs 16:25 (NKJV)
  2. Roommates by Elgonn · · Score: 4, Funny

    Before you let your roommates know you've possibly committed a felony make sure they won't turn you in.

    1. Re:Roommates by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 2, Funny

      See, he asked the hypothetical "Would you help me bury a body" the week before and his room mate told him he would. So he thought he was in the clear.

      He didn't know his room mate was a closet Apple Fanatic, and any chance to talk to Jobs and take him out to dinner would be worth it. ... Okay I added the dinner part.

    2. Re:Roommates by Rogerborg · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I prefer not to live with people who have no problem with "finding" other peoples' property. You have to invest in big locks.

      --
      If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
    3. Re:Roommates by HermMunster · · Score: 4, Informative

      No felony occurred until a jury says one has. Reading the affidavit gave me pause in how the detective intentionally exaggerated the circumstances to make it look as if a conspiracy took place.

      Birth dates, residences, and drivers licenses were disclosed making at least 3 people susceptible to identity theft.

      --
      You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
  3. Re:Hrmm by WrongSizeGlass · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm sure getting the house raided and the guy near arrested tops that.

    Not according to Steve Jobs ;-)

    She did it to avoid getting caught up in the rest of this sht. Seems like she was the only one who thought that this could come back to bite them in the ass. She was right.

  4. Re:The cop committed perjury or he's very bad at m by Mordok-DestroyerOfWo · · Score: 2, Funny

    Last I checked, $8500 - $5000 is $3500, not $2500.

    Calculated on an Intel chip.

    --
    "Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right" - Salvor Hardin
  5. Re:The cop committed perjury or he's very bad at m by pete-classic · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Where on Earth did they get $100 US Treasury notes?! Some fives were issued in the sixties, but all I have in my pocket is this Federal Reserve junk.

    -Peter

  6. Public acknowledgement? by AdmiralXyz · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It turns out Steve Jobs personally requested that the phone be returned, prompting Gizmodo's Brian Lam to try negotiating for a public acknowledgment that the phone was real.

    Let me make sure I understand this: these guys were in possession of stolen property, and they tried to negotiate conditions for its return? Gizmodo, you run a decent gadget blog, but Jesus Christ you need better lawyers. You are about to be one-two punched by the law, and you have no one to blame but yourselves.

    --
    Dislike the Electoral College? Lobby your state to join the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact.
    1. Re:Public acknowledgement? by je+ne+sais+quoi · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Before you can call it stolen property you need to confirm that it is actually something that was owned by the person claiming it was stolen.

      There's was a big fucking Apple logo on the back, I think it's safe to say it was Apple's phone since no phone like that was supposed to exist. Second, there's a world of difference between proving that the phone belongs to Apple and what Gizmodo was asking for, which was a public announcement that the phone is theirs. That of course, would have done more financial damage to apple by raising the profile of this case even further.

      --
      Gentlemen! You can't fight in here, this is the war room!
    2. Re:Public acknowledgement? by BasilBrush · · Score: 5, Informative

      That argument falls down because in the email where Gizmondo demand official confirmation that it's Apple's phone, they already clearly accept that they already know it's Apple's phone. They are quite open about the fact that they only want the official confirmation for so called journalistic purposes.

    3. Re:Public acknowledgement? by Achromatic1978 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There's was a big fucking Apple logo on the back

      Oh, well, if there was an Apple logo on the back!

      You heard him, all you millions of people who think you own an iPhone, or iPod, or Mac Book Pro... if it's got "a big fucking Apple logo on the back", it's reasonable to assume it belongs to Apple.

    4. Re:Public acknowledgement? by dangitman · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Before you can call it stolen property you need to confirm that it is actually something that was owned by the person claiming it was stolen. I don't care how over inflated Jobs's sense of self important is, if he were to call me and ask me to give him something I'd sure as hell want proof that it was his to begin with.

      This had already been established. If you read the actual email, Gizmodo was asking for more information about the phone and their production of it:

      Hey Steve, this email chain is off record on my side.

      I understand the position you’re in, and I want to help, but it conflicts with my own responsibilities to give the phone back without any confirmation that its real, from apple, officially.

      Something like that — from you or apple legal — is a big story, that would make up for giving the phone back right away. If the phone disappears without a story to explain why it went away, and the proof it went to apple, it hurts our business. And our reputation. People will say this is a coordinated leak, etc.

      I get that it would hurt sales to say this is the next iphone. I have no interest in hurting sales. That does nothing to help Gizmodo or me.

      Maybe Apple can say it’s a lost phone, but not one that you’ve confirmed for production — that it is merely a test unit of sorts. Otherwise, it just falls to apple legal, which serves the same purpose of confirmation. I don’t want that either.

      This is not an innocent request from somebody who wants to honestly return the phone.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    5. Re:Public acknowledgement? by E+IS+mC(Square) · · Score: 2, Funny

      >> Gizmodo, you run a decent gadget blog

      HA HA HA

      HA HA HA

      HA HA HA

    6. Re:Public acknowledgement? by je+ne+sais+quoi · · Score: 2, Insightful
      You know, you really aren't accomplishing much by misquoting me. This is what I said:

      There's was a big fucking Apple logo on the back, I think it's safe to say it was Apple's phone since no phone like that was supposed to exist.

      See that second half of the sentence there, the part after the comma? That's what you refer to as a qualifying statement, it means that my intent is NOT that all things with the apple logo on the back belong to apple. Are you really so dense to believe that the guy who "found" it and the guys who bought it didn't know what it was they had? Really?! You know, if you believe that, I've got a bridge to sell you that I just happened to find. It's in some pretty prime real estate, Brooklyn, and you'll be able to make money on tolls for years.

      --
      Gentlemen! You can't fight in here, this is the war room!
  7. Pretty .. by AnonymousClown · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Gizmodo dropped a bombshell on the gadget world April 19 with a detailed look at the iPhone prototype, which an Apple employee named Robert “Gray” Powell had lost at a bar.

    Does anyone else think this whole thing is pretty fucking ridiculous for a lost prototype by a careless worker? A CELL PHONE prototype - not plans for a nuke or plans for a sub or for a stealth fighter - a stupid fucking cell phone.

    A young man is in a shit load of legal problems because the cops think A STUPID FUCKING CELL PHONE is important. This STUPID FUCKING CELL PHONE is more important than the crimes going on in their area. If I were a victim of a violent crime in that area, I'd be throwing bags of dogshit at the cops and at the prosecutor.

    Really, does anyone else think this is an idiotic waste of police and tax payer money to "protect" the property rights of some corporation?

    There are many people who really need to get their priorities in order.

    STUPID FUCKING CELL PHONE.

    --
    RIP America

    July 4, 1776 - September 11, 2001

    1. Re:Pretty .. by BasilBrush · · Score: 5, Insightful

      A young man is in a shit load of legal problems because the cops think A STUPID FUCKING CELL PHONE is important. This STUPID FUCKING CELL PHONE is more important than the crimes going on in their area.

      Whilst you and your hoodie friends might not realise it, stealing a cell phone *is* a crime.

    2. Re:Pretty .. by mjwalshe · · Score: 3, Insightful

      so its trade secret and prototypes of new tech do have a considerable value hers a clue SV's major industry is tech and there are entities that go in for industrial espionarge.

    3. Re:Pretty .. by UnknowingFool · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Do you know how much the cell phone prototype was worth? If you think that the cost of parts was a few hundred dollars, you'd be wrong. Prototypes like this phone might have thousands of dollars worth of parts. Since it was a prototype, parts of the phone had to be custom made and were not mass-produced. Apple probably only made a dozen or so prototype chips. That alone raises the nominal value of the cell phone.

      Then there's the trade secrets aspect. Competitors knowing what features are present in the phone can duplicate quickly them reducing their catchup time from a few months to no time. Also Apple has a point: People knowing a new model is about to be released may not purchase a current model which means loss of sales to Apple.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    4. Re:Pretty .. by pclminion · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Whilst you and your hoodie friends might not realise it, stealing a cell phone *is* a crime.

      A crime that deserves worldwide news coverage that goes on for weeks and weeks? Please.

      Next week, maybe we'll see 5,000 stories on Google news about how somebody stole a lawnmower.

    5. Re:Pretty .. by abigsmurf · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I disagree. I think it's very important that the baseline of what it acceptable, ethical journalism is made clear.

      Today it's a prototype phone left on a barstool, sold to a tech blog, tommorrow it's Lindsay Lohan's pickpocketed Cellphone sold to TMZ so they can rifle through her text messages and voicemail.

      Likewise the concept of 'finders keepers' needs to be constantly debunked as theivery. (Car analogy alert). If someone finds my car keys, I don't want them to drive it around for a week before returning it to me (after I go to a fair amount of effort to track it down)

    6. Re:Pretty .. by BasilBrush · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No one stole anything.

      I'm afraid you don't know the law, not to mention morals. If you take a cell phone that doesn't belong to you from a bar, and neither return it to the person/company you know it belongs to, nor to the police, you have stolen it.

      A worker left it laying around and from the stories I read, there was an attempt to return it but Apple was too stupid to take it.

      There is no evidence been presented of ANY attempt to return it. But even if there was a phone call to Apple tech support, and Apple tech support knew nothing about the phone, that doesn't make it the "finder's" property to sell. Many other reasonable avenues were open to return it to the owner or the police, none were taken. Instead it was sold as stolen property.

      I'll ignore the "hoodie" part.

      Don't ignore it. If you want to behave like you have no respect for the law, and back a thief rather than the victim, then the name fits. You could have "wannabe gangsta" instead if you prefer.

      Let's say that is was stolen even though is WAS NOT, but let's say it was - do you really think all of this police and court attention is warranted for a goddamn cell phone?

      Yes. This is a serious theft of a valuable item.

      Over people who really need police help?

      People who've had valuable items stolen from them are not deserving of the police investigating?

      PRIORITES, bud.

      Come back when you've grown a sense of morality.

    7. Re:Pretty .. by dangitman · · Score: 2, Informative

      No one stole anything.

      Yes, a phone was stolen.

      and from the stories I read, there was an attempt to return it but Apple was too stupid to take it.

      And yet, there is no evidence of any attempt to return it - and from the police documents that have been released, a ton of evidence that it was known to be stolen, and efforts made to cover the thieves' trail.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    8. Re:Pretty .. by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Next week, maybe we'll see 5,000 stories on Google news about how somebody stole a lawnmower.

      If it was the highly anticipated successor to John Deere's line of lawnmowers that has generated over 10 billion in income, yes you would see 5,000 stories on Google News about it.

      A crime that deserves worldwide news coverage that goes on for weeks and weeks? Please.

      That's an interesting thing for somebody who commented in the middle of the comments section of one of these 5,000 news stories to say. Not newsworthy at all, right?

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

  8. Re:Greedy, but now without defense by UnknowingFool · · Score: 5, Informative

    But to his defense he can claim he was trying to verify ownership of the item.

    Unfortunately this story makes it clear that the "finder" knew that the phone belonged to someone named Powell before he sold it to Gizmodo. Did Gizmodo know? Well they knew that the seller wasn't the owner. That's what the warrant and investigation are trying to find out. If Gizmodo knew the identity of the owner before the money changed hands, then they are in trouble.

    --
    Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
  9. Re:wow by Reverberant · · Score: 4, Informative

    Ansd what's up with this: "I therefor pray that a search warrant be issued so the items..."

    Pray?

    It's a term of art in the legal field.

  10. Re:Hrmm by tomhudson · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ... and because they cooperated over and above the requirements of the actual search warrant, at other locations.

    Read the part where the cops were allowed a warrantless entry into 247 Hillview. Dumb move. Hogan, by cooperating with the cops, ended up getting his own cell phone seized. He also ended up implicating himself. No warrant, no search. No statements unless legal counsel is present, who will tell you to SHUT YOUR F*ING MOUTH! Because nothing you say can be used to help you, but it can and will be used against you, as this case demonstrates.

    Not to mention that you can't use a digital camera to "make a copy of the phone". It's a digital camera, not a replicator.

  11. Re:Hrmm by je+ne+sais+quoi · · Score: 4, Insightful
    From TFA:

    Martinson [the roommate] turned Hogan in, because Hogan had plugged the phone into her laptop in an attempt to get it working again after Apple remotely disabled it. She was convinced that Apple would be able to trace her Internet IP address as a result. "Therefore she contacted Apple in order to absolve herself of criminal responsibility," according to the detective who wrote the affidavit.

    Seems to me that her roommates are the ones acting in bad faith here by using her computer while dealing with something that is obviously of shady legal ground.

    --
    Gentlemen! You can't fight in here, this is the war room!
  12. Re:Greedy, but now without defense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "But to his defense he can claim he was trying to verify ownership of the item."

    No he can't. He specifically requested that the recognition be made *public*. Ownership could easily be verified privately, and even this was unnecessary because Gizmodo had already established to their own satisfaction that it really was an Apple device. He wanted *public* recognition for his own personal gain, and he suggests that he is unwilling to return property that he knows belongs to Apple unless he gets that recognition.

    So in summary:
    1. An Apple employee lost a prototype at a bar
    2. A college student obtained the phone, became aware of its owner by looking at the Facebook app on the phone, yet made no effort to contact the owner. He further violated California law by failing to turn it over to the bar's proprietor (the place where the true owner was most likely to look), the police, or make truly reasonable attempts to contact Apple. Therefore, under California law, THIS WAS A STOLEN PHONE.
    3. Gizmodo purchased the phone with the obvious hope that it was in fact stolen (in the sense that they hoped they would be able to discern that it truly belonged to Apple and would be able to use it for their own benefit before returning it.) After discerning that it belonged to Apple, they published information that was highly damaging to Apple's sales and their advantage over their competitors. Even though they were admittedly SURE that it was an Apple product, they were hesitant to return it until they got PUBLIC (not PRIVATE) acknowledgment, once again for their own personal benefit.

    Solution? Asshole student who found the phone goes to prison. Asshole "journalist" who bought a device with the hope that it was stolen and the intent to use it for his own benefit goes to prison. Gawker Media is held liable for civil damages to Apple--likely they go bankrupt because of it.

    They're all criminals, they should all pay.

  13. Re:Hrmm by WrongSizeGlass · · Score: 5, Funny

    Not to mention that you can't use a digital camera to "make a copy of the phone". It's a digital camera, not a replicator.

    Hey, it's the new 4G iPhone - anything is possible!

  14. Re:Greedy, but now without defense by Estanislao+Mart�nez · · Score: 3, Insightful

    But to his defense he can claim he was trying to verify ownership of the item.

    Except that they knew it was Apple's already, so the claim is simply bullshit.

  15. Re:negotiate conditions for its return? by BasilBrush · · Score: 5, Informative

    All Apple had to do was state this was their property, which is entirely reasonable. Until they do, they can't claim it's stolen property.

    If you've followed the story, and read todays affidavit, its perfectly clear that Gizmondo and Hogan both knew full well the phone belonged to Apple. The confirmation demand was nothing to do with establishing the owner for the purpose of return of the device, but to make something else for Gizmondo to post on their blog. Thus, no it's not in the slightest bit reasonable. In fact it may well add the crime of extortion to the list.

  16. Re:wow by gnasher719 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Please tell how you would go about putting a value on a prototype.

    Well, Gizmodo paid $8500 for a _stolen_ prototype, opening them up for all kinds of risks. How much would Apple have received if they had started an auction for one iPhone prototype to the highest bidder? There were offers from other outfits for $10,000 (which were retracted when these guys figured out the phone was stolen). So obviously Apple had no intention to sell that prototype, but they could easily have sold it for say $20,000 to $50,000.

    Or lets say Apple has a big event when the next iPhone is released, and one lucky journalist in the audience wins a real iPhone prototype (no trade secret anymore because it is the event of the actual release, just the rarity). You could probably sell that prototype for a few thousand.

  17. That's just irrelevant. by Estanislao+Mart�nez · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Before you can call it stolen property you need to confirm that it is actually something that was owned by the person claiming it was stolen.

    No. If the circumstances would have led a reasonable person to conclude that the item they were buying did not belong to the seller, nor that the seller was an agent of its owner, then they were buying stolen goods. Whether the owner has claimed it was stolen is just irrelevant--the owner doesn't even need to be aware that they've lost the item.

    Think about it. You go on a backpacking trip to Europe, and your uncle the drunk stays at your house in the meantime. Some dude steals your car and abandons it at an isolated road, and your uncle doesn't even notice. Another guy finds your car, finds identification that ties the car to you in the glovebox, and drives it to your home to return it to you. But when they get there, your drunken uncle tells him that you don't have a car, and to fuck off. Does the guy now get to sell your car?

    In the end, Gizmodo reported that they bought a phone for $5,000 from a guy that they knew neither owned it nor was an agent of the owner. That's basically an admission of a felony.

  18. Re:Apple just needs to stand down by gnasher719 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Jobs is going to end up (if not already) looking like a real jerk in this whole case. He just needs to swallow his pride and leave well enough alone. Apple will gain nothing by taking revenge on these people. And it is revenge. Sad.

    The thief, Brian Hogan, was asked by his friends to return the phone, because the loss would likely destroy the career of Gray Powell. His answer: "Sucks for him. He lost his phone. Shouldn't have lost his phone." So to Brian Hogan I would say "Sucks for you. You stole the phone. Shouldn't have stolen the phone".

  19. Re:Apple just needs to stand down by abigsmurf · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Apple are doing quite well so far.

    Their only communications regarding this are through legal documents. They've not released any statements thus, they're not getting into a war of words. As time goes on, the only extra information coming out is details of the crime.

    It's possible a public trial will force them to start publically laying into the people involved though.

  20. Priorities by Locke2005 · · Score: 4, Informative

    I had my motor home broken into in Sunnyvale and my possessions stolen. I called the police. They told me "Here is your report number. You have insurance right?" I said "No, not for theft." "Well then, why are you calling us?" they replied. "I thought you might want to come out and investigate. They broke the lock, left their tool, probably left fingerprints everywhere..." "No, we don't do that", said the cop, and hung up.

    I guess the cops understand exactly who pays their salaries.

    --
    I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    1. Re:Priorities by cowscows · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Just to counter your anecdote, my car's side window was smashed at work in New Orleans, a city renown for it's failure of a police department, and when I called the cops they had someone there in about 20 minutes. And when that cop say some decent fingerprints, they called out a crime lab guy who inspected even more. All this for a car break-in, where I'm not even sure what (if anything) was stolen.

      Sorry your local cops are so worthless that they make the NOPD look helpful. Maybe you should complain to your elected officials instead of /.

      --

      One time I threw a brick at a duck.

  21. Most disturbing thing is Apple's pet police force by jeko · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Reading the affidavit, the thing that disturbs me most is that Apple seems to have pet police detectives at their beck and call. The affidavit basically says "Apple wants to search this guy's place and take everything there, right down to any credit cards they find."

    We can't even get the cops to investigate half of the violent crimes reported, but we're willing to call in SWAT to keep Steve Jobs' "Oh, and one more thing" moment in tact?

    How about this? How about we let the police detectives focus on the mountain of unsolved violent crimes around San Francisco, and Steve, for your moment in the Sun, just hold up the phone and say, "Hey, look what we found in a bar!"

    It'll be a big laugh, and some bloody victim will thank you for it.

    --
    He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
  22. Let me try to sum things up by vrillusions · · Score: 5, Informative

    (yes, I read the entire investigation part of the affidavit)

    According to Brian Hogan's room mate (pg 14) an "intoxicated male" gave him a phone believing it was his. Hogan remained at the bar "a little while longer" and no one claimed the phone.

    According to Powel (the employee who lost the phone) (pg 16) he states his last memory of the phone was placing it in his bag and then placing the bag by his feet.he was there till closing at 11:00 PM local time. He left when the restaurant started to close and he thinks the phone could not have remained in the restaurant more than 15 minutes.

    Brian's room mate called the police because the phone was synced to her computer and Hogan's and was afraid law enforcement could get the ip address and trace it back to her (pg 12). So she was calling to absolve herself from legal issues. Also when she was shown the phone it appeared apple may have already done a remote wipe of the phone.

    George Riley says (pg 12) that the phone was invaluable and that the $8500 (yes, supposedly he got $8500 total, no source on the other $2500 though) that Hogan got the phone was worth the price of the phone if not more.

    Brian Hogan and someone else (sorry, I'm getting tired of finding this in the pdf) knew the police were investigating and was in the process of destroying/hiding evidence. The police went to hogan's father's house and found Hogan with his girlfriend. He said that the other person had some of the evidence. Eventually they got a hold of him and he placed the other items in front of a church.

    Only other gem I found in there is a quote as stated by brian's room mate when she urged him not to sell the phone as it would ruin Robert Powel's image he told her "Sucks for him. He lost his phone. Shouldn't have lost his phone"

    1. Re:Let me try to sum things up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Reality distortion field.

  23. Re:Greedy, but now without defense by Wovel · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And in their first article after taking the device they published Powell's name, suggesting they knew as well...

  24. Re:Greedy, but now without defense by UnknowingFool · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Which really undermines their "we were trying to find the original owner and return it to him" story. If both Gizmodo and the "finder" really wanted to return the phone, (besides turning it to the bar or the police) they could have just drove up to Apple's campus and left it at the front desk. "This belongs to one of your employees, Powell"

    --
    Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
  25. Wtf? by adbge · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'm not sure why Apple apologists think it is the media's responsibility to protect Apple's trade secrets.

    It is not reasonable to expect other people to guard your secrets. Don't put them out into the open.

    Bringing litigation against Gawker Media for trade secret violations would be an abuse of the legal system and, I think, irresponsible. Apple would essentially be attempting to acquire compensation for misplacing their own device.

  26. Re:Hrmm by Thinboy00 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Lesson learned: deal with the Giz, you might be in the Shiz.

    ...how did anything Gizmodo did in any way cause him to be arrested? They were very discrete about his name, it was his roommate who busted him.

    --
    $ make available
  27. Re:Hrmm by Naturalis+Philosopho · · Score: 2, Interesting

    So, how do I get something defined as a trade secret so that I can sue people who photograph it? If it's a "secret", then how can a person possibly know beforehand that that they are committing a felony by photographing it? I mean, if the company was denying the existence of this product, how could anyone know that they were doing something wrong until Apple sent the letter stating that the device belonged to them. Once they did that, everyone handed the phone over. Heck, if there's a red-light photo of Grey using the phone in public, does that mean that the State of California is guilty of trade secret "violations"?

  28. Re:Most disturbing thing is Apple's pet police for by phantomfive · · Score: 2, Insightful

    How about this? How about we let the police detectives focus on the mountain of unsolved violent crimes around San Francisco,

    They wouldn't anyway.

    Although they should do both.

    --
    Qxe4
  29. Re:Hrmm by tomhudson · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You might want to check the definition of a trade secret. It is no longer a trade secret once its leaked.

    In the United States, trade secrets are not protected by law in the same manner as trademarks or patents. Specifically, both trademarks and patents are protected under Federal statutes, the Lanham Act and Patent Act, respectively. Trade secrets arise out of state laws. Most states have adopted the Uniform Trade Secrets Act (UTSA). Only Massachusetts, New York, New Jersey, North Carolina, and Texas have not adopted the UTSA. One of the most significant differences between patents and trademarks and trade secrets is that a trade secret is only protected when the secret is not disclosed.

    and further

    (The holder of the trade secret is nevertheless obliged to protect against such espionage to some degree in order to safeguard the secret. As noted above, under most trade secret regimes, a trade secret is not deemed to exist unless its purported holder takes reasonable steps to maintain its secrecy.)

    Leaving a trade secret in a bar for anyone to pick up is pretty much the definition of what not to do to maintain secrecy.

    "But it's a secret!" doesn't cut it when your own negligence is the ONLY reason it is no longer secret.

  30. Re:wow by MBCook · · Score: 4, Insightful

    How much was it worth to Apple's competitors (such as RIM, Samsung, Nokia, etc.) to find out that Apple's next phone had a front facing camera? That it had a flash? Getting an extra 2 or 3 months head start on that information could be very important. It could be the difference between their next models coming out with the same features, or having to wait an extra product cycle to match Apple's new features.

    And that difference, those phone sales, could easily run into the millions.

    It's one thing with an analyst says "I think Apple will do X". It's quite different when someone finds an Apple device that does X just two to three months before it will be released (based on Apple's summer iPhone release pattern).

    --
    Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
  31. Re:Gizmodo went wrong with disassembly. by BasilBrush · · Score: 2, Insightful

    So, the guy who found it, probably not guilty of theft in my mind, but probably guilty of not trying to return the property, which I'm sure is a crime somehow.

    The crime of theft in fact. So why is it not theft in your mind when its theft in law?

    That "Finders keepers" saying from childhood really stuck, didn't it? But it's no basis for adult morality. Not if you want to find your car in the street where you left it when you return.

  32. Re:wow by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Manufacturing cost is a good place to start. It's not like this is a one of kind prototype that took years to make and there are no schematics to build a replacement. Like most device companies, they sent an NDA and schematics to a manufacturer in china. I wouldn't be surprised if they had hundreds of these prototypes passed out for QA purposes.

    You haven't done much R&D and product development have you?

  33. A phone? Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    That seems like a lot of police work, DA work, etc for a piece of shit phone. People will cry about IP and lost sales. Bull shit. Steve Jobs says people will stop buying iPhones because they now know a new one is in development? Are you fucking kidding me Steve? You guys release a new model every fucking year. Only a dipshit retard wouldn't know that July is new iPhone month.

    My neighbor beats her daughter and locks her in a closet and we call the Police, children's services, and they blow us the fuck off. To busy with real crimes like a missing iPhone.

    Sad. Get a fucking grip people.

  34. Thieves by DeanFox · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Apple also told the police that the publication of Gizmodo's story was "immensely damaging" to the company, because consumers would stop buying current generation iPhones in anticipation of the upcoming product. Asked the value of the phone, Apple told the police "it was invaluable."

    As far as I'm concerned they're both thieves. But, that's just me.

    -[d]-

  35. Funny, that's exactly what the cops told me... by jeko · · Score: 4, Interesting

    But you think theft(and this is, according to the law, theft-- even if Hogen didn't slip it out of the guys back pocket) shouldn't be enforced until... all violent crime is solved?

    Funny, that's exactly what the cops told me. "We can't investigate the theft of your car, we're too busy chasing murderers."

    They told a buddy of mine, "We can't investigate the burglary of your house, we're too busy chasing rapists."

    They told a woman I know, while she was still in the emergency room, "We can't enforce your restraining order, we're too busy chasing murderers."

    Following each excessive force complaint, the cops reflexively claim, "We don't have time to mess around and be polite. We're chasing killers."

    So, yeah, the cops exactly argue they shouldn't investigate theft until all violent crime has been solved.

    --
    He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
  36. Re:Greedy, but now without defense by dhovis · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Would you be this vehement if it weren't an Apple prototype?

    I certainly would. Whether it was stolen from Palm, Google, or Nokia. The circumstances were still a criminal act regardless of who it was stolen from.

    --

    --
    The internet is the greatest source of biased information in the history of mankind.

  37. Re:Gizmodo went wrong with disassembly. by westlake · · Score: 2

    The guy who stole/found the phone doesn't look too good from this report, but remember when Gizmodo was talking to him they didn't have Apple's side, or a full police report.

    From the WSJ:

    Hogan, 21, sold the lost iPhone to Gizmodo.com, which had offered him $10,000 for the prototype, and a "cash bonus" in July should Apple make "an official product announcement regarding the new iPhone," according to the document. Seller Of Lost Apple iPhone Prototype Turned In By Roommate

    The one thing you must not do when you are in possession of lost property is to assert any right of ownership:

    The longer the phone remains in your hands the more you look like a thief or a receiver of stolen goods.

    You have no right to disassemble the prototype.

    You have no right to photograph the prototype for commercial purposes.

  38. Re:It's not ours. Now give it back NOW! by BasilBrush · · Score: 4, Informative

    Just to point out the most obvious nonsense in your post, Apple never denied it was theirs.

  39. It doesn't sound like she thought it was a felony by Estanislao+Mart�nez · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Before you let your roommates know you've possibly committed a felony make sure they won't turn you in.

    Actually, one interesting thing I noted from the affidavit is that, at least as far as the detective understood, the roommate didn't seem to realize that Hogan may have been committing a felony. The affidavit says that she tried to convince him not to sell the phone because she was concerned it might ruin Gray Powell's career. If this is true, she seems to have been as ignorant about theft laws as all those Slashdot posters who insist that selling a lost phone you found isn't theft.

  40. Re:negotiate conditions for its return? by BasilBrush · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Just to point out the most obvious nonsense in your post, the exact text of the request from Gizmondo to Apple is contained in TF Affidavit, and it wasn't "I have this item please confirm it is your before returning it." Nor anything slightly resembling what you describe in your post.

    Is it that you don't read the fucking articles, or that you do read them and then just make shit up anyway?

  41. Re:It's not ours. Now give it back NOW! by BasilBrush · · Score: 3, Informative

    They refused to confirm it was theirs.

    Please supply the quote. Oh that's right, you can't, because they did no such thing.

  42. Re:This is a computer/tech crimes task force by Dahamma · · Score: 2, Informative

    A task force specifically created to investigate crimes against large corporations?

    How is that NOT a "pet police force?"

    Who said it had anything to do with "large corporations"? In fact, their most common investigations seem to involve identity theft and online computer fraud, two areas that affect individuals at least as much as "large corporations".

    And those are also two areas that the "regular" police forces are not trained to investigate properly, which is the WHOLE POINT of a computer/tech crimes task force! I know several people who have had to deal with woefully undertrained police when their identity was stolen or they were scammed/wronged by an online store. I'm sure they would have really appreciated being able to talk to detectives with proper training and experience in those areas.

  43. Re:A phone? Really? by AresTheImpaler · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That seems like a lot of police work, DA work, etc for a piece of shit phone. People will cry about IP and lost sales. Bull shit. Steve Jobs says people will stop buying iPhones because they now know a new one is in development? Are you fucking kidding me Steve? You guys release a new model every fucking year. Only a dipshit retard wouldn't know that July is new iPhone month.

    It's not just Apple And Steve being butt hurt about the stole/found phone. It's about the law enforcement groups being butt hurt too. People get in trouble for posting the stupid things they have done on youtube, facebook, etc all the time. Gizmodo posted a story about what it might be a stolen iphone and on top of that said they paid for it. Very retarded of them. The news was all over the world. Now the "law" has to save face and demonstrate that if you do something illegal you will pay for it. Else, what's the point of having punishments for doing illegal stuff if you are never going to be punished. Of course, this doesn't mean that what happened is really illegal, but since it kinda seems like it might be this is why the police is investigating.

    My neighbor beats her daughter and locks her in a closet and we call the Police, children's services, and they blow us the fuck off. To busy with real crimes like a missing iPhone.

    If your neighbor would make a post like gizmodo about it and it would make news around the world, I bet the police and chidren's services would be there in no time. Said that, I kinda not believe you that children's services is not doing anything. Here in Texas, even parents that do nothing wrong and love their children are afraid of them. If you are really wanna do something about it, tape your neighbor and call your police. If that doesnt work, call your local TV station and/or newspaper. Once it's news the police wont have another choice than investigate. Just like they are investigating Gizmodo.

  44. Finding isn't stealing. by Estanislao+Mart�nez · · Score: 2, Insightful

    So If I found it, (and took it like the guy did), I would be stealing - but really only from this Powell guy as I would have no idea the phone wasn't a regular old iPhone in which Apple would have no interest at all. I'd have just turned it in at the bar though as I wouldn't want an iPhone anyway.

    No, if you found it and returned it to the bar, you wouldn't be stealing. If you honestly find somebody else's property, keep your use of it to a reasonable minimum necessary to identify the owner, honestly try to give it back in a reasonable amount of time, and failing that turn it in to the police as lost property, you've committed no crime at all. Really, the key words here are honest and reasonable; your actions have to be consistent with a desire to respect other people's property, which means returning stuff to its owner promptly, and not using things you don't have permission to use.

    The law only starts asking whether it's theft when there's evidence that you're not being honest and reasonable in those regards. So, if on the contrary, after you find the phone, you keep it for a long time without trying to locate the owner or turn it in to the cops, use it for your own benefit or sell it to somebody, well, then you probably have committed theft.

    There are very few exceptions. For example, if the lost item is a perishable good and is in danger of spoiling, you may sell it and then give the money to the owner.

  45. Re:Greedy, but now without defense by KahabutDieDrake · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Interestingly, Gizmodo did nothing wrong here. They got a tip about a possible newly leaked product, they did what every news agency does, they went after it. They got it. Then they gave it back to the rightful owner, as soon as that owner was confirmed. EVERYONE involved knew it didn't belong to any of the parties involved. However, that doesn't make it "stolen" and it doesn't make it illegal. If apple wanted to protect their secrets, they wouldn't have let the phone out of the building. PERIOD.

    The lot of you crucifying Gizmodo for doing exactly what you want them to do, are a bunch of hypocrites.

  46. Re:Greedy, but now without defense by crossmr · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If Apple doesn't say it's theirs HOW THE FUCK CAN ANYONE KNOW IT WAS APPLES!

    It doesn't have to be Apple's. It was certainly someone's. They didn't turn it over to the police immediately. They disassembled it and made a public show out of it. End of story. Do not pass go, do not collect $200.

  47. Irrelevant. by Gary+W.+Longsine · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Gizmodo knew that the device did not belong to the person who sold it to them.

    --
    If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
  48. I don't know why I bother. by Estanislao+Mart�nez · · Score: 3, Informative

    "Please supply the quote."

    Quit being lazy and read the filed court documents yourself, fool. You've got a brain, fucking use it or STFU.

    "Sewell [Senior VP at Apple] told me [the detective] that after Gizmodo.com released its story regarding the iPhone prototype on or about 4/19/2010, Steve Jobs (Apple CEO) contacted the editor of Gizmodo.com, Brian Lam. Jobs requested that Lam return the phone to Apple. Lam responded via the email address blam@gizmodo.com that he would return the iPhone on the condition that Apple provided him with a letter stating the iPhone belonged to Apple. [...] Sewell said that after the letter confirming the ownership of the phone was sent to Lam, Lam responded via email that the phone was in the possession of Jason Chen at [address omitted]."

    My emphasis, which I fear might not be enough.

  49. Are you in second grade? by Estanislao+Mart�nez · · Score: 5, Insightful

    IIRC, they did figure out who the guy was, talked to him, and gave it back. Kind of undermines the whole theft thing, doesn't it.

    First of all, I haven't seen anything that says that Gizmodo or Hogan ever talked to Powell. Citation, please.

    But that's not my main point. The main point is that, god, I feel like we're talking to second-graders here. Here's some very elementary moral rules that we adults teach kids in, um, elementary school:

    • If somebody loses something, you find it, and you are able to return it, you should do so promptly.
    • You shouldn't use something that's not yours unless you have permission from the owner.
    • However, there's a few exceptions: it's ok to make minimal use of somebody else's lost item if it's necessary to return it to them. If the item is perishable, it's ok to sell it and then give the owner the proceeds (the law in California actually states this).

    This is all part of basic respect for other people's property. People who follow those rules don't run into trouble with the law when they find other people's lost property. Such people, finding a lost cellphone, would look through the contents of the phone to try and identify the owner or somebody who knows the owner, and then try to return within a couple of days. If they were unsuccesful in their attempts to return it, they wouldn't claim it for their own before consulting the law. What they wouldn't do is start using the phone for their own personal calls for a whole month before returning it, because that's wrong.

    If Hogan and Gizmodo had followed those elementary rules, well, they'd be clear. Hogan might have started like that on night 1 (using the phone to find out the name of the guy who lost it), but it's becoming pretty clear by this point that as he realized the value of the prototype, he stopped following those rules, and his priority became how to benefit from somebody else's property, not how to return it to them.

  50. Re:Greedy, but now without defense by gyrogeerloose · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It would be considered stolen by any rational people.

    FTFY. Because I'm a rational person and I would consider it stolen. I'm also a resident of California and I know what the law says about found property; as fellow CA residents, Mr. Chen and Mr. Hogan should have known too.

    --
    This ain't rocket surgery.
  51. Re:wow by Space+cowboy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Um, fuck you.

    the room-mate was the only individual to come out of this with integrity. Good on her, is what I say.

    Simon

    --
    Physicists get Hadrons!
  52. Re:Hrmm by Talizorah · · Score: 2, Informative

    That is your personal definition of the word copy, which has no application in this context.

    The definition of "copy" under Penal Code section 499c is the only definition that is relevant to this case or discussion.

    California Penal Code Section 499c(a)(7)
    "[...] any facsimile, replica, photograph or other reproduction of an article, and any note, drawing or sketch made of or from an article."

    Before you argue that this is an iPhone and not an "article"...

    California Penal Code Section 499c(a)(2)
    "[...] any object, material, device, or substance or copy thereof, including any writing, record, recording, drawing, sample, specimen, prototype , model, photograph, micro-organism, blueprint, map, or tangible representation of a computer program or information, including both human and computer readable information and information while in transit."

  53. Re:Greedy, but now without defense by UnknowingFool · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Interestingly, Gizmodo did nothing wrong here. They got a tip about a possible newly leaked product, they did what every news agency does, they went after it. They got it. Then they gave it back to the rightful owner, as soon as that owner was confirmed. EVERYONE involved knew it didn't belong to any of the parties involved. However, that doesn't make it "stolen" and it doesn't make it illegal. If apple wanted to protect their secrets, they wouldn't have let the phone out of the building. PERIOD.

    Have you been reading anything? It is illegal to receive stolen property in all states. In California's case receiving "found" property is also a crime if the finder did not do his/her best return it to the rightful owner. By your own admission, if everyone knew that the phone was "found" then they committed crimes by transferring money and not returning it to the owner. In the latest affidavit, it seems both the finder and Gizmodo knew who the owner was but did not return it. Instead Gizmodo paid money for the phone. Instead, Gizmodo dismantled and posted it. That's possible trade secret violations. Instead, Gizmodo tried to negotiate with Apple to publicly acknowledge their phone.

    --
    Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
  54. Not so straightforward. by Estanislao+Mart�nez · · Score: 2, Insightful

    the room-mate was the only individual to come out of this with integrity. Good on her, is what I say.

    From the cop's affidavit, I'd say it's mixed. Point in her favor: she thought it was wrong to sell the phone because she was worried it might ruin Gray Powell's career. Points against her: (a) it's not clear that she understood clearly that keeping somebody else's phone for three weeks in order to sell it is theft; (b) she only acted to stop it when she feared that she might be blamed for the situation.

  55. Re:Greedy, but now without defense by gyrogeerloose · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Interestingly, Gizmodo did nothing wrong here.

    Remind me to never hire you as my attorney. You apparently haven't read the relevant California criminal and civil code sections that have been reprinted all over the Web since this thing first hit:

    Section 2080. Duties of finder
    Any person who finds a thing lost is not bound to take charge of it, unless the person is otherwise required to do so by contract or law, but when the person does take charge of it he or she is thenceforward a depositary for the owner, with the rights and obligations of a depositary for hire.

    In other words, if you take charge of a found object, you are as responsible for taking care of it as you would be if the owner had placed it in your care. Selling it off to the highest bidder hardly satisfies that, nor does disassembling it (and damaging it in the process), as Chen did.

    They got a tip about a possible newly leaked product, they did what every news agency does, they went after it. They got it. Then they gave it back to the rightful owner, as soon as that owner was confirmed.

    Nope:

    Section 485
    One who finds lost property under circumstances which give him knowledge of or means of inquiry as to the true owner, and who appropriates such property to his own use, or to the use of another person not entitled thereto, without first making reasonable and just efforts to find the owner and to restore the property to him, is guilty of theft.

    The minute the finder offered it up for auction to the highest bidder, as per his room mate's statement, he was "[appropriating] such property to his own use, or to the use of another person not entitled thereto" and guilty of theft. Gizomodo, by bidding on it, was guilty of buying stolen property.

    EVERYONE involved knew it didn't belong to any of the parties involved. However, that doesn't make it "stolen" and it doesn't make it illegal.

    Actually, under California law, it does make it illegal. The relevant law:

    Section 2080.1. Delivery to police or sheriff; affidavit; charges
    (a) If the owner is unknown or has not claimed the property, the person saving or finding the property shall, if the property is of the value of one hundred dollars ($100) or more, within a reasonable time turn the property over to the police department of the city or city and county, if found therein, or to the sheriff's department of the county if found outside of city limits, and shall make an affidavit, stating when and where he or she found or saved the property, particularly describing it.

    In other words, the only legal thing for someone who finds lost property to do is either make a good-faith attempt to return it to it's owner or turn it over to the local law enforcement agency. If you don't wish to do either of those things, then you should just let it lie there.

    If apple wanted to protect their secrets, they wouldn't have let the phone out of the building. PERIOD.

    That's totally absurd. It was a cell phone. Cell phones need extensive testing out in the real world before they hit the market. Would you want to buy one that hadn't been tested out on the street first?

    The lot of you crucifying Gizmodo for doing exactly what you want them to do, are a bunch of hypocrites.

    No, I want Gizmodo to do good tech journalism, not write checks stolen goods. Print leaked info, by all means but do not commit felonies in the name of page hits.

    --
    This ain't rocket surgery.
  56. Re:Greedy, but now without defense by HermMunster · · Score: 2

    He has Apple's internal gestapo police force mixed up with REACT which is a high tech major crimes force run by the District Attorney. What he does have right is that Steve Jobs pushed them to act on this even though the phone had been already returned. Steve Jobs got a major crimes high tech force involved to persecute the journalist because of a cell phone that he already had back in his possession.

    --
    You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
  57. Re:assuming makes an... by tomhudson · · Score: 2, Insightful
    No, because the trade secret - the existence of the phone - was already exposed to someone else - the finder of the phone - by Apple's negligence. Once a trade secret is exposed by the trade secrets' owner through their own negligence, it is no longer a trade secret.

    If I find the formula for Coka-cola in a bar because an employee of Coke left it there, it's no longer a trade secret due to Coke's negligence. I can't be convicted of subsequently selling a trade secret because I obtained it legally, and it lost its "trade secret" status forever at that moment.

    So person B making photos of the iPhone after it lost its "trade secret" status because it was divulged to person A through Apple's negligence is not "copying a trade secret."