Slashdot Mirror


Taylor Momsen Did Not Write This Slashdot Headline

Hugh Pickens writes "David Carr writes that headlines in newspapers and magazines were once written with readers in mind, to be clever or catchy or evocative, but now headlines are just there to get the search engines to notice. Hence the headline for this story that includes a prized key word for one of the 'Gossip Girls' — just the thing to push this Slashdot summary to the top of Google rankings. 'All of the things that make headlines meaningful in print — photographs, placement, and context — are nowhere in sight on the Web,' writes Carr. Headlines have become, as Gabriel Snyder, the recently appointed executive editor of Newsweek.com, says, 'naked little creatures that have to go out into the world to stand and fight on their own.' In this context, 'Jon Stewart Slams Glenn Beck' is the ideal headline, guaranteed to pull in thousands of pageviews. And while nobody is suggesting that the Web should somehow accommodate the glories of The New York Post's headlines in that paper's prime, some of its classics would still work. 'Remember "Headless Body in Topless Bar," perhaps the most memorable New York Post headline ever? It's direct, it's descriptive, and it's oh-so-search-engine-friendly. And not a Taylor Momsen in sight.'"

33 of 192 comments (clear)

  1. A-freaking-men! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm a technology journalist now working for a web-exclusive publication after years of working in print. And headlines have gone from being one of the most fun parts of the job to one of the worst. I've had endless arguments with editors who will freak out if there's anything even the slightest bit clever or sly about a headline--if it's not packed with keywords, all properly researched via Google Trends and Omniture and God knows how many other vetting systems, it's just not wanted at all. It's horrific, and does the readers a tremendous disservice.

    The bigger problem is that the problem isn't limited to just headlines. Stories have to be constructed the same way, with this many mentions of the lead product or whatever in the deck and the first and last paragraphs, with the full product name used this many times, with this many links out to this many other sites... Journalism, at least the form of it I'm involved in, is no longer about informing people or telling stories, it's all about getting picked up by Google. The training I had never dared call that journalism. Once upon a time, it was known as advertising.

    1. Re:A-freaking-men! by linhares · · Score: 4, Interesting

      and to make things worse, because ads do not fit well with plane crashes, terrorism, school shootings, corrupt politicians, the media seems to be gradually going to a "feel good" news dystopia. Lots and lots of sheer propaganda, instead of real news stories (my definition of real journalism is that "Something seems to stink @ X"; the rest is all propaganda). Techcrunch reported on a news website some time ago where there would be only good news, for christ's sake. http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/06/10/get-ready-to-barf-aol-and-sears-want-to-push-good- news-down-your-throat/ Couple these trends with the bazzilion-page slideshows and/or reviews, and one can only wonder why big media is complaining.

    2. Re:A-freaking-men! by Jeng · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If you want to write good and witty headlines head to Fark, perhaps point Fark out to your boss also.

      Write the general headline, write the Fark headline, show your boss where the most hits came from.

      --
      Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
    3. Re:A-freaking-men! by squidfood · · Score: 4, Insightful

      the media seems to be gradually going to a "feel good" news dystopia.

      Well, then, that's a welcome relief from the current "you're surrounded by terrorists and child rapists panic Panic PANIC!!" news dystopia.

    4. Re:A-freaking-men! by John+Hasler · · Score: 5, Insightful

      > my definition of real journalism is that "Something seems to stink @ X";
      > the rest is all propaganda

      If you don't realize that the muckraking stories are sometimes propaganda as well you are very naive.

      --
      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    5. Re:A-freaking-men! by Miseph · · Score: 2, Informative

      Actually I hadn't noticed that at all. So, I decided to do 5 seconds worth of research on your claim. I discovered that of the 10 headlines which drop down from my Reuters RSS bookmark thing in Firefox, precisely 1 is about the oil spill. I can't imagine that 9 other newsworthy things might be happening in the entire world, so you're probably right that this whole oil spill thing is being swept under the rug by getting only 1/9th the exposure of everything else combined.

      Oh, mind that none of the sarcasm drips on your shoes... it stains.

      --
      Try not to take me more seriously than I take myself.
  2. So it's time to penalize spam headlines by tomhudson · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Or just ignore them and actually rank by the content!!! line they're supposed to do?

    1. Re:So it's time to penalize spam headlines by Sir_Sri · · Score: 3, Interesting

      If they could do that, this problem wouldn't exist in the first place. It's a lot harder to asses content algorithmically than to make a reasonable guess as to what the content is about (good or otherwise). The basic problem with any algorithm to detect something (computer or otherwise) is that people start trying to appease the algorithm, not the thing the algorithm is trying to asses. Want to develop a a way to evaluate teachers? Lets test all the students (that's our algorithm), so the teachers teach to the test, and in the end your data is worthless.

      In some respects this is the collision between art and science. Computers do science well, art, not so much. Writing articles is an art, even if the content itself isn't, the skill of making an article catchy or otherwise interesting is really hard to evaluate. The google search algorithm is a good example of what happens when you try and apply science, especially early generation science to and art form. How do you judge the quality of any sort of an article? Early on you pick out key words (what about JS and GB for jon stewart and Glen beck, can I detect those?, you might need a context sensitive language to guess their utility, which is possible but again inefficient), you maybe base your evaluation on the status of the author/publisher (something by thomas friedman in the NYT is probably more relevant to a topic than the random crap I post on a blog), so then you need a system of mathematically describing reputation (good luck dodging a bias there). What's the next pass? How many refeences are made to the article elsewhere is probably good, that's a bit of a messy algorithm performance wise but we'll cope. Next up, you get into (for example) verifiability, that's a hard one to do algorithmically for a large data set, and how do you detect someone trying to screw with your verification algorithm. I'm looking at you Anthony Penis Blair, (that's in reference to his longstanding description on wikipedia which I believe has been fixed), and 'michael jackson is dead' (how do you verify that algorithmically when it's breaking news?). A cursory search turns up http://paidcontent.org/article/419-traditional-ways-of-judging-quality-in-published-content-are-now-useles/ listing the criterion for content as 'crediential, correctness, objectivity, crafstmanship'. We can pretty easily do an ok job on credential, correctness is somewhat harder, objectivity and craftsmanship are a really hard. We could maybe make inroads on objectivity by recognizing different objective sets of data and then trying to (machine) learn whether a piece of data fits in one set or another. Craftsmanship is well outside my area of expertise, how do you evaluate the depth and bredth of an article relative to others?

      Even with all that, they're taking second seat to data that can be produced quickly, potentially of lower quality but will attract attention of users. It's not an easy problem to solve, it's not just that it's agorithmically hard to evaluate content on the fly (as any science kid in an arts class will tell you), it's that the audience has moved from wanting a certain type of articles (which print media spent the last 400 years perfecting) to wanting instant access to 'probably' correct information, and they have no great attachment to credientials, partly because we've realized that journalists are largely out to lunch when it comes to complex topics.

      The print media guys recognized the first problem, probably in time, but the latter problem too late. They needed to adapt their business and publishing model to have significantly more depth, but not necessarily from in house reporters (basically contract an actual expert on each topic and pair them with a writer, sort of like how news networks bring in experts on everything, but with an actual journalism filter on top of them), and they needed to be willing to say on short notice "we have reports from a single source that michael jackson is in fact dead". Probably the natural alliance here is between p

  3. Huh? by LWATCDR · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I have no idea who Taylor Momsen is and I never heard of that headline but the Headline was clever.

    --
    See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    1. Re:Huh? by Em+Emalb · · Score: 2, Funny

      I agree. WhoTF is Taylor Momsen?

      Should I care?

      (Or does this mean I get a slashdot street-cred point for not knowing who this person is? Or do I lose one? I can never keep track these days.)

      --
      Sent from your iPad.
    2. Re:Huh? by Em+Emalb · · Score: 3, Informative

      Bad form replying to my own response, according to some on here (to you I say FEH. FEH I SAY!), but apparently Taylor Momsen is a young (born in July, 1993) American actress.

      Dang, that's the year I graduated high school....17 years has passed? Really? Damn.

      Get off my...well, it's not old and crusty, but it's still my lawn. So get off it, you damned kids.

      --
      Sent from your iPad.
    3. Re:Huh? by jc42 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      (Or does this mean I get a slashdot street-cred point for not knowing who this person is? Or do I lose one? I can never keep track these days.)

      It's easy: You lose points for not just [f***ing] googling the name.

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
    4. Re:Huh? by gstoddart · · Score: 3, Informative

      Or does this mean I get a slashdot street-cred

      *laugh* I'm sorry, but you can't use "Slashdot" and "street-cred" in the same sentence like that.

      Geek-cred? Maybe. Street-cred? I don't think so.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    5. Re:Huh? by batquux · · Score: 5, Funny

      You lose points for not just [f***ing] googling the name.

      I tried to, but all that came up was this Slashdot article.

  4. This explains by brian0918 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This explains why every few minutes, stock ticker sites like Yahoo Finance are producing new riveting headlines that leave the impression that the cause of every move in the stock market is fully understood.

    1. Re:This explains by John+Hasler · · Score: 2, Funny

      > ...that leave the impression that the cause of every move in the stock
      > market is fully understood.

      It is. A stock goes up when the most recent trade was at a higher price than the previous one. It goes down when the most recent trade was for a lower price than the previous one.

      --
      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
  5. Slashdot posts well-researched actual tech article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Made you look!

  6. Whatever Happened to Tagging and Meta Data? by eldavojohn · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I thought that it was being pushed for people to be able to include metadata and keywords and tags via hidden HTML attached to their articles to give a tip to search engines. Whatever happened to that part of moving forward on the web? Did it turn out that it was too easy to game search engines with spam if you could constantly update what your spam site's metadata was indexed as?

    Hypothetically this would allow you to put something very clever and catchy as a headline and then insert the obvious keywords into a meta tag to help out search engines. You could even avoid all the keywords.

    Also, engines like Google were designed for you to be agnostic as to what each engine was doing. Tailoring yourself to one search engine doesn't only ruin what they're trying to accomplish but also what you're trying to accomplish which is being informative to readers, not the search engine. Know, respect and cater to your audience and they will stay with you through the hard times.

    --
    My work here is dung.
    1. Re:Whatever Happened to Tagging and Meta Data? by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You mean putting Meta Tags on my site containing Taylor Momsen, Justin Beiber, and Hardcore Sluts, when my site is really about C# is not a way to generate a random hit? I mean, couple that with re-naming all the variables in example to code to the celebrities on Entertainment Weekly, and reworking all my functions signatures like so;
      sex_CalculateInterest(){...

      I mean, how do YOU generate activity on your sites? The honest way is for suckers.

  7. Read the the article in the URL by fotoguzzi · · Score: 5, Funny

    I don't read articles anymore. I just read descriptive URLs. http://example.com/5541957/display-myths-shattered-how-monitor-companies-cook-their-specs

    I think the headline on that article was about American Idol, but I'm not sure, as I didn't read the article.

    --
    Their they're doing there hair.
  8. It's my good fortune to lack the foggiest idea... by John+Hasler · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ... who Taylor Momsen is. And even better, I lack any desire to find out.

    --
    Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
  9. "Clever" headlines impress only other writers by Snowhare · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Frankly, I hate 'clever' headlines which manage to work in some rather stupid pun while declining to actually say what the freaking article is about. It may make headline writing 'fun' for writers, but it just annoys everyone else. *You* want to be clever - *I* just want to decide whether the article is actually about something I'm interested in.

  10. Re:NY Post Headlines by $RANDOMLUSER · · Score: 4, Funny

    My favorite of all time is from an article about a program for creating random (but plausible) headlines, based on permutations of real headlines. I think it was in BYTE.

    Tornado kills five, self

    --
    No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
  11. And this is different... how? by JustinOpinion · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Frankly I don't buy the "glory days of newspaper" nostalgia argument. The idea that headlines were once crafted to be deeply insightful, and informative doesn't mesh with my own recollections. I've always found headlines to be frustratingly vague. Headline writers seem obsessed with injecting puns, usually at the expense of clarity. The whole concept of a headline in print, being limited by font size and page size, means that the content is strangely constrained and thus non-optimal sentence fragments end up being used. And, finally, I think newspapers have been optimizing their headlines to be attention-grabbing (rather than strictly informative/useful) for a long time now.

    In other words, the notion of a headline crafted for a non-journalistic purpose has been around for a long time. In the print era, it was optimized for what was most likely to catch/attract a reader who is walking by a newsstand. (There is a reason the headlines on print newspapers are so gigantic.) Nowadays the headlines are being optimized for what an online reader is most likely to stumble across or search for. In both cases, the headline is an advertisement for the article. It is meant to induce you to go check out the product.

    As long as there is a profit motive behind journalism/news, there will be a conflict between what the distributor wants (to make money) and what the consumer wants (to be informed). That's more or less fine, since we've achieved a decent balance. But that does mean there are some inefficiencies (like infuriatingly misleading headlines).

    1. Re:And this is different... how? by cyp43r · · Score: 2, Insightful

      They weren't designed to be insightful or informative - they were designed to catch the eye and mind. It was advertising all the way. The principal concern was the size of the the words so that they could all fit neatly on top of the article. People nostalgic for those headlines must be the kind of people who thought them up, because they were rarely funny and often groan inducing.

  12. Re:Golden Girls! by Itninja · · Score: 2, Funny

    Maybe this is a whoosh on my part, but 'cosmonaut'? Wha???

    --
    I judt got a nre Kinesis keybiartf so please excusr ant egregiou typos.
  13. Re:Golden Girls! by Culture20 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Confidant. Easily mis-heard. Excuse me while I kiss the sky.

  14. This goes along with ... by jc42 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Lately I've been noticing that I get a lot more google matches that are utterly irrelevant to what I was looking for, and on examination, they usually don't even contain any of the keywords that I typed. This is presumably part of the same problem, due to the growing success of marketers in "attracting eyes" by tricking the search sites into sending people to the marketers' sites.

    Perhaps a useful approach would be for the search sites to allow us to "ban" a site, similarly to what a lot of email and news readers have done for years. This could be done in a browser, of course, but it should work even better if the search site got the information. They could then use readers' banning as part of the ranking, because they'd know that a site is not a good match for someone looking for keywords X, Y and Z, despite what it may look like to the search bot.

    Another approach might be to see if the courts would go along with applying "truth in advertising" laws to stuff online. You'd think this would be obvious, but we're still in the stage at which the inclusion of words like "computer" or "online" immediately cancels all precedent, and centuries of lessons must be relearned for the new computer/network environment. It's probably still some years before false advertising online can be challenged and prosecuted as easily as with false and misleading print or broadcast ads.

    --
    Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
    1. Re:This goes along with ... by Areyoukiddingme · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Google actually tried that for a while. Sort of. There was a little grey X in a box near the end of each search result that would hide it on the page if you clicked it. Complete with a cute little animation of the result poofing into a cloud and contracting on itself. I used it every time I saw expert-sexchange come up in searches.

      It went away a while ago. Presumably somebody wrote a bot to X every search result ahead of their own, then spammed the hell out of it.

  15. Re:It's my good fortune to lack the foggiest idea. by digitalsushi · · Score: 2, Funny

    I... I am in shock right now, truly disturbed... I have debated whether to even post this horrific discovery.. but I just found out, just now, that out of all of the world's sexy people, every single one of them was at one point a disgusting, unsexy child. I know, it's true! My buzz, it has been murdered.

    --
    slashdot: where everyone yells sarcastic metaphors to themselves to understand the issue
  16. Thought this was normal for Slashdot by devleopard · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Recent example:

    Microsoft Mice Made in Chinese Youth Sweatshops?

    makes for more views than

    Several Technology Companies Reported to Use Child Labor at Chinese Youth Sweatshop

    even though it's as true. (To be fair, all other media outlets did the same thing, ignoring companies like Apple and Best Buy who used the same factory.)

    This is pretty typical - every day I see at least one article where the headline misrepresents or outright contradicts the actual article. Pretty much everyone, in the interests of page views and advertising revenue, will sacrifice journalistic integrity and truth.

    --
    The best thing about a boolean is even if you are wrong, you are only off by a bit.
  17. Re:Slashdot posters wouldnt do that by doogledog · · Score: 2, Funny

    So, err, how did you come across that picture then?

  18. Re:1 Step of Indirection == Instant Confusion? by blair1q · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Correct.

    People used to react to headlines in making a decision to purchase a newspaper. Now they search for topics of interest in making a decision to click through to whomever has the info they wanted before they went looking for news.

    Once they had the newspaper in their hands, they unfolded it to discover that the only interesting headline was above the fold on the front page, and the rest was crap written by communications majors.

    Now they read the article, then go back to the search engine to find other things they want to know, often on exactly the same topic.

    I.e., newspapers are no longer 80 pages long, 300 on Sunday. They're 1 story deep, 24/7/365 (but really 9-5 on weekdays because even on the internet you can't get people to work any time other than the space between breakfast and dinner).

    The salacious nature of headlines has actually been reduced. "If it bleeds it leads" is no longer the most profitable strategy. Breadth of topics and close tracking of current topicality are more valuable, and more likely to get people to pluck the leaves from your tree (and with them the parasitic corporate eggs ads that are glued to their undersides).