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Fedora 13 Is Out
ultranerdz writes "Fedora 13 has just been released. It includes major features such as automatic print driver installation, automatic language pack installation, redesigned user account tool, color management to calibrate monitors and scanners, experimental 3-D support for NVIDIA video cards, and more."
While looking through the packages I noticed that Dialup Networking was NOT selected by default. Is this the first version to be that way? Kinda significant as in the end of an era.
Here's the direct link to new features for desktop users:
http://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/13/html/Release_Notes/sect-Release_Notes-Changes_in_Fedora_for_Desktop_Users.html
Yes, starting with Fedora 12, yum has been *much* faster, because it only downloads the differences between the installed and updated package.
It sucks. Just get Windows 7 already.
Hey, that was my idea.
But yum has a better output layout than apt-get, IMO. I wish the apt guys would look at YUM for inspiration.
Now I begin my bi annual ritual of backing up my data, and making a new live CD (I always have the worst luck with direct download/upgrade for some reason). I still can't decide *WHY* I use Fedora over say Gentoo or Ubuntu (Ok, Gentoo is just too damned annoying to build and install). I do get tired of enabling mp3/flash/etc... in Fedora though.
Actually that goes back to Fedora 8 IIRC. It wasn't enabled by default until 12.
I'm starting to think GNU is the problem with "GNU/Linux" these days.
I had to skip Fedora 12 because X and/or KDE couldn't handle both of my nvidia cards. Enabling one with both monitors worked fine, but having X configure both cards (binary nvidia of course) locked the machine completely.
With support for Fedora 11 ending soon, I'm hoping this has been resolved.
"I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
I'm just trialing Fedora 13 in a VM right now, if i dont run into any showstoppers i'll be ditching ubuntu this week on my main rig
best of all, i have a tasy intel SSD on my desk right now which will be the system-drive for my new fedora install
anyone with me?
People, what a bunch of bastards
Parent is talking about the Presto Plugin for yum. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeaturePresto
You know, I've used a computer long enough to learn that this battle between windows and linux is nothing more than smoke and mirrors. I've noticed that when XP came out, it seemed very familiar, as a matter of fact, it sure seemed a lot like mandrake. This is the way it's been through out the years. Microsoft takes something that works great from linux and makes it theirs and sometimes makes it better, most of the time worse. And the same goes for linux, sometimes it starts out worse and gets' better because they borrowed it from microsoft or sometimes makes something worse and makes it better then microsoft takes it. The point i'm getting at, after noticing i'm rambling is that I believe there are certain behaviors and tendencies of computer users that have been leveraged by OS manufacturers. That somethings just work better with certain designs, take for example the automatic printer drivers install. That works really well with Windows 7 and apparently fedora is now getting with it. God knows i Hate using CUPS.
Of all the things I've lost; I miss my mind the most. - Mark Twain
Hey... he's a well paid sysadmin, give him a break. ;)
Remember to maintain your supply of
Dog is my co-pilot.
I appreciate you guys putting gWaei into the repositories. I was forced to install Fedora 13 rawhide to do some testing with gtk+-2.20 (I think) and I was impressed with the package manager. Much cleaner than synaptic. Though I didn't like the lack of progress bars for so many things.
If I want an easy to set up distribution, I would probably prefer Fedora over Ubuntu nowadays. I give the Fedora guys props. (When I say easy to setup, I don't necessarily mean newbie friendly.)
Once you start despising the jerks, you become one.
You are joking I hope.
Having used both rpm and apt for a long time now in a sysadmin setting, I can say that both have their pluses and minuses. rpm to me has a much more professional feel to it IMHO. I really wish that dpkg had the -V flag like rpm does, I've used that more times than you probably could imagine. rpm always seems faster at finding a package name given a file path and at listing out the files in a package. On the flip side, rpm historically hasn't had good depenencies and I never liked how they always wanted to compile in support for everything in rpm, which is one reason I liked being able to configure all that in emerge on Gentoo. Plus rpm used to have all kinds of problems with the database getting locked or corrupt. I switched to Gentoo as a workstation a while back when I tried to uninstall kernel-source and it said I couldn't because some audio library depended on it. That just shouldn't ever happen. But then I switched to Ubuntu because Gentoo development goes so fast that if you don't emerge -pv system practically every night, you end up not being able to upgrade at all.
So the point is that there are always reasons for the various package management systems being the way they are and because most people are unique, there are always going to be people who like those different features. You shouldn't poke fun of their choices until you understand them better. Hence the phrase, don't judge a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes.
GDM Configurator was dropped by GNOME, not Fedora.
I'm starting to think GNU is the problem with "GNU/Linux" these days.
Speaking of issues with apt-get, my old comment:
When doing large scale automated apt-get update; apt-get upgrade tasks, ask what happens to apt-get/dpkg when a postinstall script fails, or there were file conflicts with another package. Yes, the machine never fetches updates again. Serious amounts of dpkg --configure -a, dpkg --purge --force-reinstreq, and apt-get -f install are required to even get it working again. Also don't ask what happens when a user wants to install a local package with dpkg -i that has a missing dependency. Yes it prints an error, but unknowingly to the user the package actually gets half installed and breaks the automated update jobs. Why isn't there a --force flag to prevent this from happening?
Yum and rpm have had these issues solved for years and years, why can't Debian fix it?
RPM is much faster these days, but yum (well, interpreted python) is still slow, and it doesn't handle dependencies like APT can do. However it has several nice features that were easy to implement in yum and that apt systems still lack. Delta updates are used by default, for example. And with a plugin you can get transactional upgrades in Btrfs or LVM. The Yum utils are also quite powerful. I also like that yum can do almost-everything while in .deb systems you need to use apt-get, apt-cache, dpkg and others (or use aptitude, which is another layer). After 8 years of APT, I didn't miss it when I migrated to Fedora 12.
Well almost everything that is not liked in Windows 7 is WONTFIX. In fedora WONTFIX really means "THEY WONTFIX BUT YOU CAN IF YOU WANT TO"
Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
We use RHEL for production servers that do real work, and Fedora for fileservers. We prefer using Fedora because the interface and management tools are similar to RHEL.
But, yeah, if I were using this as a desktop system I'd probably go with something else.
Sounds like you have never used Fedora.
Fedora 12
Fedora 13
Who uses apt-get directly, anyway? Aptitude FTW.
Fedora has one of the best PPC32 communities I've found. The only other option I've found was Debian- Gentoo was one option, but that PPC32 community seems to be less than 10 people. Otherwise OpenSuSE's dropped PPC32 and finding versions for either Ubuntu or Slackware is a herculean challenge
I completely agree. The apt-get tool is powerful, but the interface and output is terrible. With YUM all package management is pretty straight forward and easy to explain to a new comer. Want to install software?
yum install packagename
Remove software?
yum remove packagename
Want to find a package?
yum search keyword
With the apt-get family of tools, most of the commands are short and.or cryptic. It may get the job done and apt-get may be a little faster, but it's so ugly and cryptic that it's not work the extra performance. The differences between the man pages are pretty eye-opening too. The apt-get manual is obvious written by programmers and sysadmin types for the same, where the yum page is written for human beings.
I was at a linux install-fest a couple months ago where we were installing Fedora 12 and Ubuntu 9.10 on a pile of donated computers that were given to families that could not afford a new computer. Some of the kids there were swearing up and down by Ubuntu, how special and wonderful it is and how Fedora was no match.
While testing one of the Fedora systems one of the kids wandered by and exclaimed "Ubuntu!!! .... oh, that's Fedora". Silly kids.
The point of the story, other than some differences in file locations and scripts there is far greater similarity between Ubuntu and Fedora than there are differences. They are both using the same open source software. Its not like Windows vs OS/X. And selecting a brown color theme for your desktop is not some advanced futuristic feature. Grow up.
Case in point, Ubuntu 9.10 Desktop
The command line interface to NetworkManager WAS added as a useability improvement - it is so somebody can more easily run the thing remotely or on a server with no graphical interface.
Sometimes it is just easier to use words to get a message across instead of pointing at pictures.
However if you really want to see where usability is improving look at Maemo, web interfaces to linux routers and interfaces on linux based systems associated with televisions.
Bullshit. I can fix a package for my OSS OS.
However, if I don't get the original maintainers to accept my patch and include it into the official distribution I'm as good as dead.
Do you realize the work needed to re-patch your system continuously?
And WONTFIX means they will not look at my patch favorably.
Hell I have some patches that have been given green light but are still in a limbo until they are committed and it has been like 6 months.
And that is for an OS I care about and care about individual developers not having the time to do something. If RH did that to me I would move on to Ubuntu.
GP is an idiot but so are you. I happen not to give a shit about the tech industry -- about all I follow is a couple of Slashdot stories every week. I just need to get things done as efficiently as possible. There's no faster way for just about any general-purpose task involving a computer than the Unix shell. When you get to specialised tasks, it's often the case that a program that deals with text interfaces is still going to be the fastest, because you can mangle text or edit it much better with grep/awk/sed/cut and vim/emacs or in a pinch perl/python than with anything else. And if your OS is built around text, which you get with the Unix CLI, then you're gold.
All I'm trying to say is that the computer to me is not a "reason-to-live" as you put it, just another tool like my car. But it so happens that the fastest way to get things done and get things done that would be impossible with other interfaces, and do all this with the minimum rise in blood pressure, is the Unix CLI. And that's why I run Debian Linux -- it doesn't get in my way, just gives me more power than the non-Unixlike OSes. (OS X really gets in my way and I hate it even though it has acceptable underlying tools.)
I am trying to figure out what you listed that you can't do in debian.
Want to know which packages are installed? dpkg –get-selections
Want to verify a package's installation? automatic
Want to know, of those installed, which have been modified? debsum
Want to know what package owns a specific file? dpkg -S {/path/to/file}
Want to know every file that a package installs? dpkg --contents {.deb-package-name}
Also, a Debian package is just a compressed archive as well.
I think they are both useful formats and have probably borrowed a lot from each other.