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Mixed Signs On the State of IT Education
snydeq writes "Advice Line's Bob Lewis comments on the mixed state of IT education in the US, which sees some students graduating with computer-related degrees despite never having written a line of code. And while some institutions are emphasizing the value of teamwork in their curricula, an approach that fosters specialization in lieu of uniform standards, others are simply advertising their 'success rates' in graduating students. 'Education is a marketplace, and if you have the money and want to buy, you can find someone willing to sell,' Lewis writes. In other words, 'If you want a degree that indicates you know something about computers without having to actually know very much about computers, you can get one.'"
When I have people applying for roles here, I have found some rather funny perceptions, in the way that we look at a degree and the person with the degree looks at their degree.
For me, if someone is applying for a role and they have a related degree, I assume that they probably know a little about the theory behind it, but have no clue in terms of how the real world functions. For those with certificates, I generally have an even lower opinion.
Most kids fresh with a degree assume they know just about all there is to know about that field.
The amusing part comes when they find out that even with their degree, they basically come in at the bottom rung of the ladder - a large number seem to think that because they have a relevant degree, they will start off in middle management or a team lead role.
Degree or no degree, when you come to work here, you pretty much start at the bottom and have to prove to everyone that you are actually capable of doing the job we hired you for. That often means working under people without degrees, but ones with years of experience in the real world. For a lot of kids fresh out of uni, that's a bitter pill to swallow it seems.
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And while some institutions are emphasizing the value of teamwork in their curricula, an approach that fosters specialization in lieu of uniform standards
Wouldn't "teamwork" have the opposite effect - emphasizing uniform standards over specialization? A more individualistic approach would encourage specialization more, one would think. Also, the whole premise seems a bit off. "IT" encompasses many things, programming is not involved in all of them.
... and then they built the supercollider.
I'm not sure how Computer Science courses are at other educational institutions, but my school's Comp Sci program didn't focus much on programming at all. Everything was largely theoretical and we never did much programming at all. If you wanted to fine tune your coding skills, you'd have to do it on your own, or even better on co-op or internship.
Freedom is drinking a beer in the park when you're supposed to be at work.
A previous employer of mine rejected all resumes listing MCSE certification. Having an MCSE cert does say something about you, but probably not what you think it does.
Wow, that really sounds like someone I want to work for.
People who judge others based on any education, degree, cert or lack of either, are usually people who suck to work for. They know next to nothing themselves, have no confidence in their own abilities and base their self worth completely on previous "accomplishments" like what college they attended or what degree they have.
Also, programming isn't IT. The lack of proper definition is one of the main problems with the industry.
computer-related degrees despite never having written a line of code.
Previously we complained about
computer-related degrees despite not knowing how to troubleshoot a hardware problem or even turn a computer on
So in other words, educators responded to complaints by changing curriculum. We now have some computer-related degrees that have programming as an optional trait rather than a required trait.
And on top of that, what is a "computer-related degree" anyways? CSci would seem to fit that; how about Computer Engineering? Or an IS Management degree?
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
"has no idea what, for example, the term 'object-relational impedance mismatch' might mean."
I have to say, having gone through a real CS program (quite a while ago now) that covered everything from assembler to algorithm analysis and theoretical proofs, "object-relational impedance mismatch" set off the buzzword warnings.
A Google search confirmed my impression. The problem it describes is (sort of) real, but the term is idiotic. The kind of thing they'd put on one of these newfangled multiple guess CS exams.
And maybe... just maybe... we can get back to having senior engineers, and real mentors, and training people.... ah the dream world I live in.
You can. Learn to network. Go in, do your best. Don't be afraid to take extra work to get things done. This will earn you kudos with everyone. As you work with these people, try to determine who the A grade guys are and who is the next level down, and then the next one down again and so on. Now, when you need something done, ask the good guys for help, but try to make it as easy for them as possible. Go out of your way to make their job easy if you are the one asking for the favor. Be sure to return favors when they ask for things in return.
Pay attention to the little things. Need a half hour of someone's time with a solution? Bring them a coffee. Arrange meetings where it will be easy for the OTHER person to be. Above all, treat them like PEOPLE, not resources - even if you outrank them.
That sort of little shit, that stuff REALLY gets noticed by others. That's when you get your "good people" work together.
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A lot of these issues seem to tend from the language of choice in today's colleges. That language being java which is memory managed for you. To alot of the older programming crowd who have used C for years this can seem like a huge flaw and it can be depending on the field. However, alot of programming these days is Web programming and in Java/C# where these skills are uneeded so it is not necessarily such a huge issue. Also, all a Computer Science degree really teaches you is how to learn. There are so many different languages and specializations it is IMPOSSIBLE to learn all the details about everything so you just have to grasp the ability to expand your horizons when needed.
MS cert tests are worse, they measure rote memorization of marketing material.
but (nearly) all good computer professionals are musicians.
Then I'm doomed. Even my fart is off tune.
Unfortunately, there is also a huge disconnect between what colleges teach, and what is required for students to be successful after college. Very little of what you spoke about is taught at a lot of universities. It doesn't mean these students won't eventually make good programmers, but they need something to translate the theory they've learned into somethings that's applicable. It's really daunting.
I've worked in IT (no development) throughout high school and college. All of my "programming" is scripting, and small utility programs that, I now realize, would be destroyed in a code review. And the avenues to learning to be a better programmer aren't terribly clear. I've taken to reading books on good design now, and I'll swing back around to my language books again. Then I'll need some practical experience, and everyone recommends open source projects, but even those are daunting when a young, inexperienced programmer tries to contribute code to a project where the other developers have been programming for 20 years.
So, maybe that 3rd year student will be great in another year when she has spent some time in a production environment and had some practical experience. Unfortunately, short of the universities adapting their curriculum, I don't think we have many other choices to produce new programmers besides slogging through with some bright, young students, who maybe need a little guidance.
How refreshing. Why don't more employers use coding tests? Actually programming something and talking sharp in an interview are such different skills; I really doubt they even use the same part of the brain. I think too many people get hired on interviewing skills alone and I doubt it's just this field. Good interviewing skills should get one a great position in sales but that's about it.