Slashdot Mirror


Publishers Campaign For Universal E-Book Format

As the battle rages for control of the e-book market, publishers are starting to unite behind a common desire: a universal e-book format. David Shanks, chief executive at Penguin Group USA, said, "Our fondest wish is that all the devices become agnostic so that there isn’t proprietary formats and you can read wherever you want to read. First we have to get a standard that everybody embraces." The company's president, Susan Petersen Kennedy, explained that book publishers did not want to "make the same mistakes as the music industry, which had an epic struggle over electronic distribution and piracy and lost huge market share."

28 of 348 comments (clear)

  1. ePub by masmullin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Issue solved. Everyone should just listen to me.

    1. Re:ePub by Mordok-DestroyerOfWo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If I recall (it's been awhile since I've taken an engineering course) the first rule of engineering is if it isn't broken, don't fix it. Why reinvent the wheel when ePub is a perfectly good standard that is already darn near universal.

      --
      "Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right" - Salvor Hardin
    2. Re:ePub by Nakor+BlueRider · · Score: 5, Informative

      ePub is a really good choice. Aside from the fact that it's an open standard, it has the option to plug in any DRM the publisher wants to use/write for it. Hopefully they eventually learn better, but since for now they won't settle for anything that doesn't include a DRM option, that's an advantage for it. It's specifically designed for reading books on an eBook reader, including keeping track of where the pages actually change (when reading at different zoom levels). I'm honestly a bit surprised the industry isn't already switching to it.

      That said, I'm not fond of the Adobe Digital Editions DRM that it tends to come packed with at the moment on DRM'd books. The required software is not very good quality. The eReader style DRM is at least a lot easier to work with. (Of course, DRM-free remains the ultimate goal; at this point I pretty much only buy DRM-free eBooks anyway.)

    3. Re:ePub by Rary · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Issue solved. Everyone should just listen to me.

      Issue not solved.

      It seems to me that the main complaint about ePub is that it is text-centric, and doesn't do well with any book that requires a particular formatting, or includes anything other than text. That means no comic books, obviously, but it also eliminates many Kurt Vonnegut novels, among others.

      --

      "You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war." -- Albert Einstein

    4. Re:ePub by elh_inny · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I actually consult for Penguin (but also other publishers so hopefully I am not as biased), I am also on the ePub committee and I must tell that at least in it's current form epub is not the solution to all forms of content.
      Also Apple tends to do unspecified things to epub deliveries and standard compliant epubs fail Apple check, but it's hard to blame them yet, they're just trying
      Moreover it is the publisher who chooses to wrap their epubs in DRM or not so Penguin, not Apple is causing the incompatibilities to some extent.
      Amazon is obviously the biggest offender with their proprietary outdated format which is almost the same but not quite an epub.

      I also agree that epub is the most sensible solution right now, but like I said it's not there yet and simply doesn't work for non-reflowable content (think anything rich media, graphic or design heavy) which is a lot of content...

    5. Re:ePub by Skuld-Chan · · Score: 4, Informative

      One of the problems with epub format is there is no standard drm layer - in a sense thats one of the problems with PDF. PDF is an iso standard, perfectly fine for publication, but allows 3rd party security handlers - you can use Adobe's, or you can use one of a dozen other ones - and that in itself is the big problem with ebooks today.

    6. Re:ePub by Qwavel · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If it has the option to plug-in any DRM then the problem isn't solved at all.

      What good does it do me to buy a book that uses this wonderful universal format, only to find that it is wrapped in DRM that only works on one platform?

    7. Re:ePub by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Unfortunately, the advantages of ePub are the disadvantages of PDF, and vice versa. ePub is terrible for technical content or for anything which is more complex than plain text with a tiny bit of markup. PDF is great for complex books, but for text it's a hugely bloated format. There is not yet a good general solution. For my latest book, I am using a subset of LaTeX markup and have added support in the EtoileText framework for parsing it and emitting XHTML, which works quite nicely for creating the ePub, but this one has much less complex structure than my last one.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    8. Re:ePub by nine-times · · Score: 4, Insightful

      When you create a PDF, you specify a particular size of the output. It makes sense since PDF was designed for print documents, and print documents are designed for a specific size of paper.

      So if you want to use PDFs, then you're going to want to standardize ebook screen sizes and resolutions. That's going to cause lots of problems. Also, if you want to resize the text in a PDF, you need to shrink/grow the entire document since text in a PDF is not designed to reflow. The only way to reflow text in a PDF is to hope that the text is actually embedded and display the text instead-- at which point your pretty much treating the PDF as a plain-text document and losing all the benefits of using a PDF in the first place.

      Its a much better idea to use a modified for of HTML (or something similar, designed to be displayed on-screen, to be screen-size independent, and to allow reflow).

    9. Re:ePub by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 3, Informative

      Not only that, but it's already a de facto standard. All more or less popular readers can read ePub books, either out of the box (e.g. Nook, new PRS), or with a firmware update (old PRS) - with the notable exception of Kindle, because Amazon wants to lock you into their own book store. Practically all reader apps for mobile devices (iPhone, Android) support ePub. iPad supports ePub (only?), which might well be the final nail into that coffin. The upcoming Google book store will use ePub.

      The DRM aspect is more interesting. While the format itself defines some generic metadata for DRM and such, it doesn't standardize any particular DRM scheme. In practice, though, it seems that everyone who needs it is converging on Adobe's ePub DRM as the de facto standard.

      So, the industry has already standardized. Amazon is the only remaining player that actively resists this, but between Apple, Google, and various smaller fish, I don't see how this is going to last for much longer.

    10. Re:ePub by Nakor+BlueRider · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well, that's true of most DRM, eBook and otherwise. Still, I'd personally rather not buy DRM'd books and strip them, because that still appears to support DRM'd books from a sales perspective.

    11. Re:ePub by laird · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "what's wrong with plain old PDF? I know EPUB is good for text, but poorly suited for things demanding a specialized layout like comics, but PDF handles that just fine."

      That's exactly what is wrong with PDF format. It is designed for capturing a precise page layout, which is great for moving printed documents around between fast computers with large monitors, but turns out to be terrible for documents to be displayed on ebook readers for several reasons. First, it does not allow text to be reflowed for rendering on smaller/lower resolution screens. Second, it's a very complex format, requiring far more software, CPU and RAM to render than is required to render a book that is primarily text.

      This is why ePub was invented - it's a simple markup language that can be easily implemented on low-end hardware, and which supports reflowing text.

    12. Re:ePub by Per+Wigren · · Score: 3, Informative

      Basically, ePub IS just a ZIP file containing XHTML files, CSS, images (PNG, JPEG, GIF or SVG) and metadata. You can unzip the ePub and read it with your web browser.

      --
      My other account has a 3-digit UID.
  2. It already exists. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    *.txt

    (or *.pdf, if you're a stickler for pretty graphics).

    Coming up with a "new standard" at this point is just wasted effort.

    1. Re:It already exists. by vlm · · Score: 3, Insightful

      (or *.pdf, if you're a stickler for pretty graphics).

      PDF is an epic fail if you're rescaling to a new "paper" size. And each reader is, of course, a different size.

      Personally I'd buy an ebook reader if it was 8.5x11 inches at readable DPI and did PDFs, because that seems a nearly world standard electronic data sheet format.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    2. Re:It already exists. by angus77 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Personally I'd buy an ebook reader if it was 8.5x11 inches at readable DPI and did PDFs, because that seems a nearly world standard electronic data sheet format.

      Um...except for the fact that the rest of the world uses A4 as a standard. The rest of the world doesn't even use inches (that's over 6 billion humans, by the way).

    3. Re:It already exists. by krischik · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In my home country we don't use ASCII any more. We just like our äöü and you need at least ISO_8859-1 for that. And wife would need ISO_8859-5 for her eBooks. You guys from the US are so inconsiderate.

      And as for PDF: PDF preserves to much and is therefore unusable for different screen sizes.

  3. Laughingstock of the world by Dragoniz3r · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Susan Petersen Kennedy, explained that book publishers did not want to "make the same mistakes as the music industry, which had an epic struggle over electronic distribution and piracy and lost huge market share."

    Well shit, even the book industry is laughing at the music industry now.

  4. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  5. A crippled standard, he means by noidentity · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "Our fondest wish is that all the devices become agnostic so that there isn't proprietary formats and you can read wherever you want to read. First we have to get a standard that everybody embraces."

    "Oh, and don't get me wrong, we already have good standards, but they don't suck enough. By that I mean they don't arbitrarily restrict our readers in stupid ways. I long for the day we have a universal sucky e-book format."

  6. We have one already... by pandrijeczko · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ..ink on paper. Advantages as follows:

    1. Someone will steal an iPad or eBook reader from your bag at the airport, not a dog-eared paperback.

    2. For all the tree-huggers out there, you can only use paper from sustainable sources.

    3. If it takes you 12 hours to read a book from start to finish, it will take you the same time to read the eBook. On most devices that means carrying around a spare set of batteries or finding somewhere to recharge.

    4. Electronic media is all about "me me me" whereas physical media can be loaned to family and friends, thus encouraging more social interaction.

    5. A used book can be given away to a charity or be sold to go towards the price of the next book.

    --
    Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
  7. Same mistakes by Aladrin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They don't want to make the same mistakes, and yet they're following the same path anyhow.

    DRM DOES NOT WORK.

    If someone tried to sell me a security measure that encouraged thieves to attempt to steal my products while preventing my legit customers from using them and made everyone angry, I'd tell them where to shove it.

    --
    "If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
    1. Re:Same mistakes by m2shariy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yes this is a DRM issue. Each vendor has it's own DRM scheme and typical reader does not support all schemes, so each vendor pretty much requires it's own device. And yes, I bought a DRM protected book for my device once, making it work was one of the most revolting computer experiences I've ever had. Since then I just download my books DRM free.

  8. Making the EXACT same mistakes by CritterNYC · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They're making the EXACT same mistakes as the music industry. They don't want a universal format. We have one. It's called ePub. They want universal DRM. Which isn't gonna happen.

    The music industry tried the same thing. We wound up with multiple different DRMed formats that only worked on specific devices. All were incompatible with each other. Most were overpriced compared to CDs (the elimination of the physical distribution and associated costs should have been factored into digital sales from day one). And if someone did try to make a tool to unlock your music from a device so you could use it on another device you owned, they were sued... and it was made illegal even for fair use with bought-and-paid-for legislation in the US. So, everyone got used to stealing music, since it was the only way to actually get what you want on the device you wanted it and be able to listen to it anywhere.

    Now, the Big Publishing is making the exact same mistakes. Insisting on DRM. All of it is on different platforms in different formats. None of it works with anything else. And the pricing is absolutely absurd compared to paperback sales. So, what happens? Everyone is starting to steal books using file sharing, etc. Big Publishing is already losing, they just don't realize it yet. And for all their whining about wanting a universal format and not wanting to make the same mistakes as Big Music, history is already repeating itself.

  9. Re:The standard one by Osty · · Score: 3, Informative

    Congratulations. You just created ePub, the existing open ebook standard consisting of XHTML+CSS in a zip container. Welcome to 2007.

  10. Re:Lack of Piracy for books by Osty · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You missed the fact that many people already have an ebook reader and don't even know it. Do you have an iPhone or iPod Touch? Then you have access to multiple e-readers, from commercial one-store-only readers like Amazon's Kindle, B&N's eReader (reskinned and restricted version of Fictionwise's eReader), or Kobo to open readers like Stanza (the best reader on iDevices by far, though for best iPad support you need to jailbreak and install FullForce). Don't have an iDevice? That's okay. There are e-readers for Android, Windows Mobile, and even Blackberry. If you have a PDA or smartphone, in all likelihood you already have an e-reader.

    I also don't think your price discussion is right. Go visit forums like MobileRead and you'll see that many of the posters are actually very price conscious. The current ebook market is in its infancy at the moment and still hasn't come to the realization that DRM-free product will still sell. Until then, the limitations imposed (can't "lend" an ebook like you can a paper book, for example) are pretty obvious to end users and most people are unwilling to pay anywhere close to the price of a paper book for a restricted ebook. (that most ebook DRM has been cracked does not change that fact -- to get the industry to change you have to vote with your wallet, and if you buy DRMed ebooks only to rip off the DRM yourself later the sellers don't see the second half. They just see that they offered DRMed books and you bought them, so obviously people will buy DRMed books).

    I first started reading ebooks on a Windows CE device back in 2000, and continued reading on my iPhone since 2007. I got my first eInk reader just this past Friday, and that was only $110 (yay for Woot!). Most of my reading has been free or classic books, with the occasional purchase from Kindle's store. At this point I've pretty much stopped buying paper books.

  11. Re:Text + formatting metadata by Animats · · Score: 5, Informative

    A long time ago, when Project Gutenberg texts were really the only "ebooks" one could find, I had the idea of creating a separate data file that would accompany the .txt files. My idea was to leave the actual content of the book in plaintext for maximum portability, but allow fancy formatting (pagination, font, links, etc) via a separate binary file which would reference the .txt by character position.

    "Bravo" for the Xerox Alto, the first multi-font WYSIWYG editor, worked that way. The text was stored as ASCII and terminated with a control-Z. Following the control-Z was the formatting information. Text-only utilities, like compilers, could read the files as plaintext. Late 1970s technology.