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10 Tips For Boosting Network Performance

snydeq writes "InfoWorld's Paul Venezia and Matt Prigge provide hands-on insights for increasing the efficiency of your organization's network. From losing the leased lines, to building a monster IT test lab on the cheap, to knowing how best to accelerate backups, each tip targets a typical, often overlooked IT bottleneck."

256 comments

  1. Get drunk. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Unplug wires in network closet.

  2. Backups by natehoy · · Score: 4, Funny

    I learned from the BOFH that the fastest backups are written to /dev/null.

    --
    "This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
    1. Re:Backups by Amouth · · Score: 1

      i've seen people use /dev/null as temp space.. as long as you don't lose your handle to the file it is still readable..

      --
      '...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
    2. Re:Backups by Hoi+Polloi · · Score: 1

      I use it for my mailbox.

      --
      It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
    3. Re:Backups by AI0867 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That's not /dev/null, that's a deleted file. /dev/null does *nothing* with anything written into it and attempting to read from it yields 0 characters read: source, around line 618.

      When however, you create a file, open, and delete it, then as long as your handle exists, the refcount of the inode won't reach zero and it won't be collected by the filesystem. This is a rather common practice.

    4. Re:Backups by Jurily · · Score: 1

      The whole point of /dev/null is that it's writable, but not readable.

    5. Re:Backups by dkleinsc · · Score: 2, Funny

      Also, the fastest way to speed up a network is reduce the number of lusers. Completely demoralize them, electrocute them, slip a laxative into their drink, so many options, so little time.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    6. Re:Backups by darkpixel2k · · Score: 4, Funny

      The whole point of /dev/null is that it's writable, but not readable.

      Exactly. Backups to /dev/null, restores from /dev/random.

      --
      There's no place like ::1 (I've completed my transition to IPv6)
    7. Re:Backups by darkpixel2k · · Score: 1

      The whole point of /dev/null is that it's writable, but not readable.

      Exactly. Backups to /dev/null, restores from /dev/random.

      Leave the restore running long enough and eventually you'll get your data back...

      --
      There's no place like ::1 (I've completed my transition to IPv6)
    8. Re:Backups by Some+Bitch · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately I've seen too many colleagues think the BOFH is a role model rather than an in joke, none of them found their way to the monastery and true enlightenment :/

    9. Re:Backups by Dunkirk · · Score: 1

      Isn't that the exact argument for evolution?

      --
      Acts 17:28, "For in Him we live, and move, and have our being."
    10. Re:Backups by Jurily · · Score: 1

      So there was a Paradise, but then the Universe crashed when the Fruit was a null pointer, and God is running the backup recovery ever since?

      Man, that explains everything!

    11. Re:Backups by darkpixel2k · · Score: 1

      Isn't that the exact argument for evolution?

      I wouldn't call it an argument. You're about as likely to recover your data from /dev/random as creating life from nothing by simply waiting for long periods of time.

      After all, who created /dev/random? Some say it simply sprang into existence. Others believe in the intelligent design of Linus.

      --
      There's no place like ::1 (I've completed my transition to IPv6)
    12. Re:Backups by darkpixel2k · · Score: 1

      So there was a Paradise, but then the Universe crashed when the Fruit was a null pointer, and God is running the backup recovery ever since?

      Man, that explains everything!

      I've never seen so many strawmans in one paragraph before. You must love straw. Scarecrows too. You must be planning on hosting your own Wizard of Oz convention. That explains everything!

      --
      There's no place like ::1 (I've completed my transition to IPv6)
    13. Re:Backups by BatGnat · · Score: 1

      Blasphemy!

  3. Get high. by TrisexualPuppy · · Score: 4, Funny

    Plug wires in again in a more colorful way.

  4. Switch to cable internet at work? by h4rr4r · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Switching from Ts to Cable Internet service at work would get you fired within a week, since within that amount of time you will see downtime.

    1. Re:Switch to cable internet at work? by afidel · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It depends, we have some sites that have done very well with cable providers on business class accounts (I assume those that have separate channels for business class), and less so with others. Our biggest problem has been the lack of any teeth to an SLA when we did have problems, which is why I would never move our HQ which has nearly half our people and which hosts remote access for the rest. For a remote office where they can always fall back to 3G tethering if they have an outage for a day or two and use our Citrix farm it's a great way to get bandwidth on the cheap.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    2. Re:Switch to cable internet at work? by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      That is our issue as well, TWC is a horrible cable provider and no "business class" isp offers a real SLA.

    3. Re:Switch to cable internet at work? by PRMan · · Score: 1

      And yet I had TWC Business for 2 years at my office and it went down only twice for about 3 hours total in that time.

      --
      Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
    4. Re:Switch to cable internet at work? by VanGarrett · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That is almost exactly five 9's of up-time. Sounds like they met the standard guarantee.

    5. Re:Switch to cable internet at work? by Dishevel · · Score: 1

      I run IT for a cab company. 250 Cabs. 25 Workstations, 3 Servers and so on. I use TWC Business class for internet with a single T1 and a DSL line. DSL is only for the cameras. I get cheap high speed internet for everyone through the Cable on the rare occasion it has a hiccup we have a T1 line for back up. Internet slows but we keep going.

      --
      Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
    6. Re:Switch to cable internet at work? by Amouth · · Score: 1

      what we did for a bit was run leased lines and a lower quality SLA faster connection. Everything incoming (hosted services) where on the leased lines and all the office NAT traffic was on the faster connection with a pool fail-over to the leased lines..

      it worked well - except it took constant monitoring because when the fast connection went down it never took the interface down - if i have a frame circuit die or even hiccup the interface and the router knows, i have a cable line get cut and the - the router has no idea as it's next hop is up..

      we did this for 2 years.. and in the long run we axed it - went to the telecoms and let them price pitch against each other till we got what we wanted speed and cost wise.

      around here the telecoms know for the small biz that the cheap people are eating their lunch.. so they have become very price competitive for leased lines.. fiber is still out of the ball park.

      --
      '...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
    7. Re:Switch to cable internet at work? by Anonymous+Struct · · Score: 1

      Indeed. This is a terrible piece of advice. Take it from someone who's had both in a lot of different places. If you don't care about SLAs and you want to hear 'Have you tried rebooting your cable modem?' every time there's an outage, then by all means, investigate cable internet service for your place of work.

      I also have to chuckle a bit when he claims that cable will give your users the relative speed they get at home. Really? Maybe that'd be true if they frequently invited 49 other co-workers over to share their link at home.

    8. Re:Switch to cable internet at work? by Glendale2x · · Score: 1

      SLA and reboot monkey support aside, another good reason to stick with a leased line these days is upstream bandwidth. Your 60 meg cable may only have an upstream of 2 (which is how Charter works where I am). This may or may not be important depending on your usage patterns, but it is very often overlooked.

      --
      this is my sig
    9. Re:Switch to cable internet at work? by Cramer · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Indeed. Take it from someone running a web site on a "Business Cable" connection, it sucks ass. It runs over the exact same system as residential traffic. The only difference... I pay more (a lot more) but get almost exactly the same service. Sure, it says 1M up on paper but they (TW) start dropping traffic at half that -- and that's how they have the network configured.

      We switched to a T1 from Speakeasy (resold Covad.) It's 1.5M in both directions all the time; no traffic ever gets dropped. It doesn't drop everytime the power flickers (TW's too cheap and lazy to put(replace) batteries out in the field.) I'll agree it's slow by modern standards, and it's about 3x as expensive, but it works all the time -- and when it doesn't people move their ass to fix it.

    10. Re:Switch to cable internet at work? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Check your math again.
      3/(2*24*365)=0,999828...
      Five nines would be around 10 and a half minutes of downtime in two years.

    11. Re:Switch to cable internet at work? by Minwee · · Score: 1

      Check your math again.
      3/(2*24*365)=0,999828...

      Um...
      1-(3/(2*24*365))=0.999828...

      And nobody ever promised that there would be five consecutive nines. Just that there would be five of them.

    12. Re:Switch to cable internet at work? by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      Um...
      1-(3/(2*24*365))=0.999828...

      What's the problem, just round it up!

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    13. Re:Switch to cable internet at work? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Insightful?

      2 years * (1 - (99.999%)) = 10.5189753 minutes
      2 years * (1 - (99.99%)) = 1.75316255 hours

      (((2 years) - (6 hours)) / (2 years)) * 100 = 99.9657761

    14. Re:Switch to cable internet at work? by shentino · · Score: 1

      Which is why you make like a datacenter and do a hot failover. Don't turn the T off until the cable is on.

    15. Re:Switch to cable internet at work? by b0bby · · Score: 1

      I've had Comcast Business at my small office for a year; there have been two outages in that time, of perhaps 3 hours each. If it were a problem, we could add FIOS as a backup, and still be way cheaper than a T1. The owners would rather save the $1000/year, so we deal with it if it happens. So it all depends on your environment.

    16. Re:Switch to cable internet at work? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Usually, those 5 nines should be computed over a month, not over 2 years.

  5. 11. by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 3, Funny

    Stop your IT Department from visitting Slashdot

    1. Re:11. by jd · · Score: 4, Insightful
      1. Ban Quake during work hours
      2. Ban Microsoft shares
      3. Ban NFS
      4. Put users on Linux and servers on NetBSD
      5. Have all web traffic go through Squid caches
      6. Use gigabit or ten gig ethernet for LANs
      7. Ensure the switches can actually carry all the traffic, not just the traffic from one line
      8. Segment the network according to where the traffic is, not where the politics are
      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    2. Re:11. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Quake? What the fuck, who still plays Quake? That game is 12 years old.

    3. Re:11. by simcop2387 · · Score: 1

      I'm curious if you're banning microsoft shares AND nfs what do you use for networked file storage?

    4. Re:11. by forkazoo · · Score: 1

      # Ban Microsoft shares
      # Ban NFS
      # Put users on Linux and servers on NetBSD

      If you are banning MS style shares, and also banning NFS, how exactly *do* you want all your users on Linux desktops to access their data on the BSD servers? Might as well just ban all TCP/IP traffic from the network, and note that you now have much more available bandwidth.

    5. Re:11. by Merc248 · · Score: 1

      There's other network file systems out there... like AFS.

      --
      "Hegelians, who love a synthesis, will probably conclude that he wears a wig." - Bertrand Russell
    6. Re:11. by lgw · · Score: 4, Funny

      2.Ban Microsoft shares
      3.Ban NFS

      If you ban CIFS and NFS, what's left? Sneakernet has great bandwidth, but the latency sucks and it's a bitch to search.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    7. Re:11. by Colin+Smith · · Score: 3, Funny

      Subversion.
       

      --
      Deleted
    8. Re:11. by cstdenis · · Score: 2, Informative

      And thanks to it not requiring activation and having support for running it's own dedicated servers, people still CAN play it.

      --
      1984 was not supposed to be an instruction manual.
    9. Re:11. by hedwards · · Score: 3, Funny

      We use carrier pigeons, they can only take a couple "packets" of 16gb or so, but it only takes a few minutes for them to cross the city. We also use carrier rats internally as they can do the same thing with even higher capacity. We tried to work with carrier snails for a while, not sure why that didn't work out, but the packet never did arrive in San Diego like we expected. Snail mail my ass.

    10. Re:11. by jd · · Score: 3, Informative

      What's left:

      • Andrew File System
      • Ceph
      • Lustre
      • GlusterFS
      • POHMELFS
      • Parallel Virtual File System
      • CODA

      There's probably a few others I've forgotten.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    11. Re:11. by lgw · · Score: 1

      Well, those are about as practical as replacing all the Windows boxes at my company, so why not!

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    12. Re:11. by afidel · · Score: 1

      GFS is probably the only one of those I would consider production ready based on the user sessions I've attended at various industry tradeshows.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    13. Re:11. by jd · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Banning TCP/IP can help, in some circumstances. There are circumstances where shifting the resend mechanism out of the low-level protocol is actually the best option. This basically emulates TCP capabilities over UDP. (This has other advantages. You can multicast UDP, you can't multicast TCP, which helps sending the same data to multiple machines.) NACKing unreceived packets vs. ACKing the received ones also cuts bandwidth usage -- but you've got to be careful. Either the NACKs have to be sent via a reliable mechanism OR you have to send a NACK that is not attached to a packet number, otherwise there would be no way for the originating machine to distinguish between a dropped NACK and the recipient receiving all packets OK.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    14. Re:11. by jd · · Score: 3, Funny

      I still play Zaxxon on MAME and that's a hell of a lot older than 12 years. I even play XTrek and occasionally BSD Sail. I can't wait until someone makes a movie version of Hunt the Wumpus.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    15. Re:11. by KnowledgeKeeper · · Score: 1

      If you ban CIFS and NFS, what's left? Sneakernet has great bandwidth, but the latency sucks and it's a bitch to search.

      SSHFS :)

      --
      It is always better to be a first grade version of yourself than a second grade version of someone else.
    16. Re:11. by jd · · Score: 2, Informative

      AFS has been around a LONG time and I'd hate to be within a mile of you if you go around telling IBM that the distributed file system they ship on their mainframes isn't production ready. However, if you want another option, try Polyserve FS. That is most certainly production-ready.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    17. Re:11. by Amouth · · Score: 1

      SFTP with random block i/o support..

      if you have a client that is worth a shit it works surprisingly well..

      --
      '...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
    18. Re:11. by afidel · · Score: 2, Funny

      I was specifically thinking of OpenAFS when reading AFS as I don't work with dinosaur herders =)

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    19. Re:11. by jd · · Score: 1

      Nonono. They are dinosaur HURDs.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    20. Re:11. by hawaiian717 · · Score: 3, Funny

      AppleShare! For even more fun, run it over AppleTalk instead of IP.

      --
      End of Line.
    21. Re:11. by deniable · · Score: 1

      Have you had the joy of LocalTalk to EtherTalk gateways? Throw in some 10Base2 and it can be really exciting.

    22. Re:11. by hawaiian717 · · Score: 1

      No, but I do remember using LocalTalk cables. Also PhoneNet, which used plain old RJ-11 phone cables.

      --
      End of Line.
    23. Re:11. by earthforce_1 · · Score: 1

      my graphics card can render the semicolons in at 10,000 fps. I am master of Rogue!!!

      --
      My rights don't need management.
    24. Re:11. by darkpixel2k · · Score: 1

      # Ban Microsoft shares # Ban NFS # Put users on Linux and servers on NetBSD

      If you are banning MS style shares, and also banning NFS, how exactly *do* you want all your users on Linux desktops to access their data on the BSD servers? Might as well just ban all TCP/IP traffic from the network, and note that you now have much more available bandwidth.

      sshfs

      --
      There's no place like ::1 (I've completed my transition to IPv6)
    25. Re:11. by darkpixel2k · · Score: 1

      Snail mail my ass.

      USPS/IP aka the Cliff Clavin protocol?

      --
      There's no place like ::1 (I've completed my transition to IPv6)
    26. Re:11. by Sulphur · · Score: 1

      1) Produce open source solution to search of sneakernet media.
      2) Apply to backups as well.
      3) ????
      4) Profit.

    27. Re:11. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We tried to work with carrier snails for a while, not sure why that didn't work out, but the packet never did arrive in San Diego like we expected. Snail mail my ass.

      You might wanna take a look at this then...

      http://idle.slashdot.org/story/10/06/01/1324220/Snails-On-Methamphetamine

    28. Re:11. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Isnt there a "Hump the Wuntus" movie? =)

    29. Re:11. by tokul · · Score: 1

      Ban Quake during work hours

      So 90s. Youngsters play CS. You forgot torrents and other p2p stuff. GbE LAN won't boost your network performance, when you need faster "Internet" and have only 512/128Kbps ADSL.

      9. Monitor traffic with mrtg and ntop.

    30. Re:11. by nopainogain · · Score: 1

      "Segment the network according to where the traffic is, not where the politics are"--good luck with that. Most bureacracies aren't having it.. Mr-EVP of flatulence-testing needs his high bandwidth youtube connection more than that congested logistics or sales department.

    31. Re:11. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You should have given the snails methamphetamine...

    32. Re:11. by vegiVamp · · Score: 1

      Cluster filesystems do not really serve the same need as "fileshares", although they're admittedly based on pretty much the same thing. SMB and NFS have their downsides, but they're still the most out-of-the-box easy solutions for most situations.

      --
      What a depressingly stupid machine.
    33. Re:11. by jd · · Score: 1

      I'll agree that they're out-of-the-box and easy. They're listed because the challenge given by the original article is how to boost network performance. Ultimately, ease-of-use is always going to involve some extra chatter and some additional overhead per packet because they're less reliant on tight configurations. And that is where the problem ultimately lies. Networks are inefficient, not because of any inherent flaw in the mechanisms used but because IT networks are a bugger to set up and maintain. Because they're a pain, because the pressure is on for network admins to do things instantly and because the requirements are often designed to allow idiots to do stupid things (yes, I've been a net admin a few times), admins will go for chattier, less-efficient protocols. It's a simple trade-off that has to be done to meet the user demands of right-now, even though it actually violates the user's needs of tomorrow and the day after.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    34. Re:11. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This log from a test implementation of "RFC 1149 A Standard for the Transmission of IP Datagrams on Avian Carriers" shows that the latency can be a challenge....

      vegard@gyversalen:~$ ping -i 900 10.0.3.1
      PING 10.0.3.1 (10.0.3.1): 56 data bytes
      64 bytes from 10.0.3.1: icmp_seq=0 ttl=255 time=6165731.1 ms
      64 bytes from 10.0.3.1: icmp_seq=4 ttl=255 time=3211900.8 ms
      64 bytes from 10.0.3.1: icmp_seq=2 ttl=255 time=5124922.8 ms
      64 bytes from 10.0.3.1: icmp_seq=1 ttl=255 time=6388671.9 ms

      --- 10.0.3.1 ping statistics ---
      9 packets transmitted, 4 packets received, 55% packet loss
      round-trip min/avg/max = 3211900.8/5222806.6/6388671.9 ms

      Also note that packets usually do not arrive in sequence and can easily be lost to predators etc.

      [from http://www.blug.linux.no/rfc1149/pinglogg.txt]

      More on http://www.blug.linux.no/rfc1149/

    35. Re:11. by vegiVamp · · Score: 1

      Out of interest, are any of the cluster filesystems you mentioned noticeably less chatty and/or do they provide much better throughput ?

      --
      What a depressingly stupid machine.
  6. Backup to tape? by nizo · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Seriously, does anyone backup to tape anymore?

    1. Re:Backup to tape? by Tinctorius · · Score: 2, Informative

      CERN does.

    2. Re:Backup to tape? by Samalie · · Score: 1

      I do :(

      I hate my tape system with every ounce of my being. But for the time being, I'm stuck with it.

      --
      09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
    3. Re:Backup to tape? by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 1

      I do. What do you use that's cheap and 1.6 Terabytes in size? Need 4 new ones every Month.

    4. Re:Backup to tape? by nizo · · Score: 1

      Disks. Not only are they way faster than tapes, but they aren't dependent on a tape drive. Picture your backup tapes. Now picture how useless they would be if your tape drive broke (or was destroyed in a disaster). Disks on the other hand can be plunked down into pretty much any machine and accessed.

      I haven't priced tapes lately; how much does it cost just for tapes for one backup? Counting the cost of a tape drive (a spare probably wouldn't be a bad idea; see above) and the cost per tape, and suddenly disks don't seem so expensive anymore.

      Also as an added bonus: when you retire your disks, if they are still working you can still use them for something useful.

    5. Re:Backup to tape? by Pop69 · · Score: 1

      Yup, cheap and high capacity.

      Besides, they're easy to take offsite in a pocket and if a backup isn't off site then it's just a copy.

    6. Re:Backup to tape? by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      30 of them does not seem cost effective, also I am not sure I trust disks for long term offsite storage.

    7. Re:Backup to tape? by afidel · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I have almost 5k tapes offsite on legal hold, how much would that cost in HDD's and storage fees vs tape?

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    8. Re:Backup to tape? by QuantumRiff · · Score: 3, Insightful

      unless they are physically damaged, or get too much voltage applied to them, and fry the boards, etc.

      Tape is designed to be a long term, shelf stable investment. How many old MDF hard drives can you access now? You can go to IBM right now, and order tape drives that work with mainframes from the same era. You will pay out the nose, but they are available.

      --

      What are we going to do tonight Brain?
    9. Re:Backup to tape? by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 4, Informative

      I look at the tapes, and yes, I know how useless they'll be in about 3 years time, we'll have migrated to a new system that isn't compatible with this. I look at the backup tapes from 1999, and how we don't even have a tape drive for them anymore, but should we need to access them we'll probably hunt them down.

      What kind of disks are you talking about? Well I need over 1TB of space per backup, at the end of each month, 4 different 1+ TB backups to be stored indefinately. So I can't use floppies, CD/DVD/BRD...

      Because Hard Drive Disks go through different mediums too you know, I can't plug my SCSI into a SATA. I am not entirely sure that any hard drive I use today will be accessible 10 years from now. And lets look at the prices for a 2TB hard Drive (since that'd be what I'd need). Let's say I get lucky and get them for $100 each. Tapes I can get for $30.

      By using tapes we get the size we need, though the speed is slow, for the right price. Saving almost $3000 a year by using tapes.

    10. Re:Backup to tape? by nizo · · Score: 1

      I looked around a bit, and it looks like tapes cost over $100 for 1.5TB of capacity (uncompressed). Throw in $1000 for a tape drive and the whole tape thing isn't looking so hot....

      We take disks off site, though I will grant that dropping them probably isn't a great idea. I've used padded Pelican cases for transport before without any problems thus far.

    11. Re:Backup to tape? by rm999 · · Score: 1

      Tape is made for deep archiving, meaning you probably won't need to read the data anytime soon, but when you do it will be there. It is cheaper and more reliable than disk for this. Therefore, a lot of people still use them.

    12. Re:Backup to tape? by afidel · · Score: 1

      Tape speed isn't slow, LTO4 will do 240MB/s with 2:1 compressible content, your source probably can't keep up with that for most types of backups.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    13. Re:Backup to tape? by nizo · · Score: 1

      Now archiving I can see, though then the question becomes, is there a working tape drive that can read these tapes?

    14. Re:Backup to tape? by XXeR · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I haven't priced tapes lately

      That's too bad. If you did, you'd know why many of us still use tape...especially in times like this where every penny matters.

    15. Re:Backup to tape? by InsertWittyNameHere · · Score: 1

      How do you backup TB's of data across many drives? Then how do you ensure your disks dont get damaged on the ride to the bank/vault? How do you store hundreds of disks?

      If you're a small business that can get away with backing up to a couple external drives then you probably don't need tapes. If you can afford to have ALL of your data replicated to multiple sites and those sites can keep backups/archives running on live disks then you probably don't need tapes.

      In my case, today I sent out 9 LTO4 tapes (each holds upto 1.6TB) to the vault. I couldn't manage 9 disks. With tapes I just put them in the tape library and it manages everything itself, moves them around, knows which tape has what data, what can be overwritten, etc. Everyday it gives me a list of tapes to bring back from the vault and it gives me a list of tapes to take to the vault. The courier throws them in his bag and goes on his way. There's nothing delicate that will easily break.

      The tapes cost about $40 each. A drive costs probably $1000. My tape library cost like $10,000, it has two drives and holds around 40 tapes.

    16. Re:Backup to tape? by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      You can buy tape drives from decades ago, it gets expensive but you will be able to get them.

    17. Re:Backup to tape? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seriously, does anyone backup to tape anymore?

      Yes. Backing up to my LTO-4 tape array is MUCH faster than hard disks.

      800 gigabyte LTO-4 tapes are about $40, and add compression on top of that.

    18. Re:Backup to tape? by camperdave · · Score: 0, Troll

      A 600GB Super DLT-2 tape cartride costs $119
      A 1TB SATA drive costs $60

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    19. Re:Backup to tape? by BlackSnake112 · · Score: 1

      Drop disk, there goes your backup.

      I think the reason most people are still using tape backup systems is that they are required to, they work, and the people that pay the bills trust them. I can say that disk backup is the way to go all I want. The tot box full of dead hard drives says otherwise. Granted thee are desktop and laptop drives not server drives, but the boss does not see that. They just see a box of dead hard drives.

    20. Re:Backup to tape? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes.

      Were you expecting a different answer?

    21. Re:Backup to tape? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, LTO Ultrium 4 tapes at 800GB/1600GB Native/Compressed run about $50 (16 cents per gigabyte). SATA-300 1TB drives run about $70 (a little over 14 cents per gigabyte). Assuming you have a solution that can get a 2:1 compression ratio outside of the tape drive, the hard drive solution is more cost-effective than tape even BEFORE taking into account the additional costs of cleaning cartridges.

      YMMV, but in my 15 years of experience, I have yet to find a fast and reliable tape solution (and have even seen my employer throw good money after bad repeatedly on a specific solution, namely two VXA-2 and then a VXA-320 robotic library, all of which failed to provide reliable backups within a month of installation due to hardware and/or media failures. I have had only a single hard drive that failed out of the box.)

    22. Re:Backup to tape? by tweak13 · · Score: 4, Informative

      An 800GB Native / 1.6TB Compressed LTO-4 tape costs $35. If you don't deliberately choose a ridiculous comparison, tapes really aren't that expensive.

    23. Re:Backup to tape? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      A 600GB Super DLT-2 tape cartride costs $119
      A 1TB SATA drive costs $60

      LTO tape has been the market leader ever since it came out. Don't bother with any other tape technology.

      A 800 GB LTO-4 tape costs $40 (plus you get compression on top of that). And LTO-4 is much faster than SATA.

      More importantly, TAPE IS MUCH MORE RELIABLE. LTO-4 error rates are 1 in 10^17. SATA error rates are 1 in 10^14.

      What is your data worth? Since you're going through the hassle of backing it up, it's got to be worth something to you...

    24. Re:Backup to tape? by interval1066 · · Score: 1

      30 of them does not seem cost effective, also I am not sure I trust disks for long term offsite storage.

      Doesn't have to be 30 of them, dual layer dvds will hold 8Gigs, I have yet to require more than 2 of them for all my data, period. Granted, that's personal data, your mileage may vary. As for your second point, we're talking classic magnetic tape, right? I dunno...

      --
      Python: 'And then suddenly you have a language which says "we're all stuck with whatever the whiniest coder wants".'
    25. Re:Backup to tape? by lgw · · Score: 1

      LTO won; DLT is basically dead. LTO4 tapes are 800/1600 and cost $30. LTO5 is still kinda new, so you'll pay $100 for 1.5TB/3TB, but hardware encryption is available. Also, the shelf-life of stored SATA drives is a bit unknown, and they don't have handy plastic cases for transport (a tape in its plastic case is far less fragile than a disk).

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    26. Re:Backup to tape? by juuri · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You sound like someone who has never been responsible for long term backup storage. Stuff isn't just thrown on a tape and stored offsite for years. Responsible DR requires you to constantly be shifting all your long term storage onto new methods, constantly. You wouldn't have MDF hard drives with valuable data on them, or even legacy data as all that data should have been MOVED and VERIFIED onto current media.

      --
      --- I do not moderate.
    27. Re:Backup to tape? by lgw · · Score: 1

      Disk backup only makes sense if you're shipping bits off-site to backup disks, or as an onsite cache of your real backups. Shipping the disks themselves is a bit silly.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    28. Re:Backup to tape? by hedwards · · Score: 1

      Hard disks don't go through revisions as quickly as tapes do. And on top of that you're not going to have to worry about whether or not you can read the HDD. Mainly because you'll know. Either the interface is supported in the other machine or it won't. On top of that any disk made in the last 15 or so years can be read with technology that's readily available today. But really you shouldn't have your disks sitting that long because it ends up being cheaper to dump the older ones onto newer larger ones anyways. You can get nearly a thousand of the HDDs I was using on my first personally owned computer on just one of the largest disks commercially available.

      It's kind of a strawman argument to suggest that since you can't directly plug them in that there are no adapters available.

    29. Re:Backup to tape? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seriously, does anyone backup to tape anymore?

      Disk to disk, with optional tape for anything older than 3-6 months.

      Keeping a tape on a shelf doesn't cost much incrementally if you already have the infrastructure, keeping an array of disks running does. If you don't need it near-line, but do need it, clone it to tape.

      Going straight to tape is almost impossible nowadays because tape is too fast: getting 140 MB/s from the client (or even many clients multiplexed) is difficult at LTO-5--and that's native, with no compression. The current roadmap has 270, 315, and 472 MB/s for LTO-6, -7, and -8; again, native with no compression.

    30. Re:Backup to tape? by afidel · · Score: 1

      So you don't believe in an oh s**t offline backup? If not then I'd hate to be there when you find out why people with experience insist on it.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    31. Re:Backup to tape? by Amouth · · Score: 1

      exactly - modern tapes are only slow for random access - but backups and restores aren't random in nature.. they read a data stream in, write, and read it out.

      LTO4 tapes are cheap for the space compared to HDD's.. my only problem is the cost of the drives..

      don't get me wrong for any large setup the cost of the drives is nothing for long term - but we are a smaller setup and 6-8k for the drive is too much and the reduced cost of space going form HDD to tape won't make up the difference.

      but if had a choice? - i'd love to hook up an LTO4-5 drive and use tapes - it would make my life easier i know that.

      --
      '...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
    32. Re:Backup to tape? by afidel · · Score: 1

      Minimum streaming rate is drive dependent, but HP's LTO4 drives have a minimum streaming rate of only 40MB/s which should be easy to keep up with multiplexed jobs. It's funny that the "problem" with tape has shifted from them being too slow to them being too fast =)

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    33. Re:Backup to tape? by hejish · · Score: 1

      Seriously, does anyone backup to tape anymore?

      Yes, people still backup to tape. LTO4 tapes are: 1) cheap - 1-2TB encrypted compressed for about $35/tape (cheaper than a Fry's disk!). 2) Easy to keep for a long time (I can keep a backup for 2+ years. That can be hard (or expensive) to do with a disk-to-disk based solution. If I want to use disk-to-disk and keep, say, one monthly backup for a year, I need at least 3-4x the disk space in my local disk-to-disk solution, and another copy in a remote location - 6-8x my disk space total. That costs a lot. Many people still use tape and will continue to do so.

    34. Re:Backup to tape? by Amouth · · Score: 1

      sadly i have to use HDD because i can't afford an LTO4-5 drive..

      HDD's are sensitive to shock we all know that - so i put them in Silicon cases for storage in the bank vault

      http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817990010

      they work well and aren't expensive.

      --
      '...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
    35. Re:Backup to tape? by lgw · · Score: 1

      You can use disks for backup (not mirroring) without putting them in a box, you know? Really, any combination of onsite versioning (for the 85% of restores that come from a user saying "oops") and an offsite copy of your data that's retained for some time is fine. Tape is the answer if you don't have good bandwidth compared to the rate of change of your data - which of course describes a lot of companies.

      It's important that you know what you'd do in the case of a legal hold, however, whatever your backup plan. Often backup-to-disk plans fail on that measure.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    36. Re:Backup to tape? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Disks. Not only are they way faster than tapes,

      No, they aren't. LTO-4 tape easily sustains over 120 megabytes/sec. What do SATA disks do?

      but they aren't dependent on a tape drive. Picture your backup tapes. Now picture how useless they would be if your tape drive broke (or was destroyed in a disaster).

      Yes. So get another tape drive - not difficult. Or order one with fedex overnight.

      I haven't priced tapes lately; how much does it cost just for tapes for one backup?

      Less than SATA hard disks.

      Counting the cost of a tape drive (a spare probably wouldn't be a bad idea; see above) and the cost per tape, and suddenly disks don't seem so expensive anymore.

      Do the math for any significant amount of data (tape is less).

      Plus I can load up my LTO-4 tape library with 24 tapes and backup 19 terabytes (uncompressed) completely unattended. Are you going to babysit your computer swapping out hard disks?

    37. Re:Backup to tape? by afidel · · Score: 1

      We have previous versions enabled for the 80% restore cases as well as keeping two days database backups on the servers. We also replicate everything to our DR site, but for legal holds and having a backup that even a domain admin can't nuke I still believe in tape.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    38. Re:Backup to tape? by bell.colin · · Score: 1

      Tape Drive fails you get another one, not to mention you should have already had one on hand for backup and periodically check them on another driver to verify there are no alignment errors. (even if it is single manual-load verses library auto-load)

      Hard Disks? You do know they have to be spinned up every so ofter or they can fail (tapes are designed to be stored for long periods) Not to mention i can drop an LTO cartridge and only have to re-seat the leader pin. Also Hard disk tech also falls out of style (try to find a PCI-E MFM drive controller now.)

      CDs/DVDs? I remember being told when they came out they would be readable in 20yrs yet the die starts degrading and can make them un-readable in 5-10yrs.

    39. Re:Backup to tape? by h4rr4r · · Score: 2, Informative

      8Gigs is nothing. We do nightlies into the TBs. If this is not what you do for a living you probably lack the experience to be making valuable input.

      I need 30 blocks of whatever for our rotation system.

    40. Re:Backup to tape? by turbidostato · · Score: 1

      "Disks."

      Now, have you tried to move them in and out on (at most) a weekly basis?

      Disks are certainly good for near-line but I don't see them beating tapes for off-site (and without off-site you shouldn't call it "back up").

      "Picture your backup tapes. Now picture how useless they would be if your tape drive broke (or was destroyed in a disaster)."

      Picture your hard disks. Now picture how useless they would be if your server or disk cabin broke (or were destroyed in a disaster). What you do in both cases is (gasp!) bring in a new driver/server.

    41. Re:Backup to tape? by GNUALMAFUERTE · · Score: 1

      I can fit my first HD 102400 times into my current HD, and yet my current HD would physically fit ~4 times into my first one.

      --
      WTF am I doing replying to an AC at 5 A.M on a Friday night?
    42. Re:Backup to tape? by lgw · · Score: 1

      Well, if you don't trust your domain admins, you just need an offsite data center run by a different company - one you trust more than your domain admins. Such cloud-based offerings are being frantically worked on.

      For a small shop (with no second datacenter), something like Amazon S3 would work, as while their SLA isn't great the chance they'll fail at the same time you do is minimal. For a large shop, especially Fortune 1000 size, you'd want a provider you already trust with your data and a reputation for being there in disasters (and that market is slowly emerging).

      For a medium-size shop, yeah, if you are worried about your admins nuking stuff, offsite tape storage does indeed sound good. Legal hold is really easy with tape as well, as long as you don't have requirements for fast response to discovery (but if you do you probably need a dedicated archiving product).

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    43. Re:Backup to tape? by turbidostato · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You are right about tapes being more resilient, cheap and brought in a better form factor (not a minor concern; in fact that's what makes tapes the proper choice most times). But you are wrong in everything else.

      "How do you backup TB's of data across many drives?"

      Just exactly as you do with tapes.

      "how do you ensure your disks dont get damaged on the ride to the bank/vault?"

      By using careful transportation? Heck, if we can move a Ming dinasty jar all across the world, we can certainly move a bunch of SATA disks to the vault.

      "today I sent out 9 LTO4 tapes (each holds upto 1.6TB) to the vault. I couldn't manage 9 disks."

      You must be joking. 9 3.5" disks fit comfortably in a cardboard box protected with bubble plastic. Can't you manage *that*? Really?

      "With tapes I just put them in the tape library and it manages everything itself"

      Do you mean a cheap disk cabin wouldn't do the same? My two 15 SATA disks cabins must be a matter of magic, then.

      "moves them around"

      Of course your tape library moves the tapes around. That's because readers are so expensive that it only has one or two of them instead of fiveteen. Two 8 ports areca cards won't need to move any disk around: it gets enough ports to access all of them at the same time.

      "knows which tape has what data, what can be overwritten, etc. Everyday it gives me a list of tapes to bring back from the vault and it gives me a list of tapes to take to the vault."

      Exactly the same with disks, of course, since that's a matter of software, nothing physical media-related. Oh! and you'll get decent speed for random reads (like when recovering a single file) which you can't dream with tapes.

      "The tapes cost about $40 each. A drive costs probably $1000."

      A LTO4 probably will cost you more 50$ than 40$ but, anyway. Of course, a 2TB disk will cost you about 150$, not 1000$. The cost per GB is still on the side of tapes, but it's not sooo far from disks. And disks can be accessed randomly, and stand for read/write cycles orders of magnitude beyond tapes, so they are fastly coming to odds.

      "My tape library cost like $10,000, it has two drives and holds around 40 tapes."

      A SATA disk cabin will cost you about 1500$, holds 15 disks, will give you simultanous random access to all of them *and* will be easily upgraded to bigger disks when they become affordable.

    44. Re:Backup to tape? by Cramer · · Score: 1

      with religous devotion! Tapes have a shelf life measured in decades. Most common (read: IDE and SATA) hard drives have a shelf life of months -- and a run-time life of 3 years tops. I have 8mm tapes from college (15 years old now) that are still perfectly readable (if you can find an exabyte 8200 drive :-)) I don't have a single hard drive from that era with intact data. (there are several SCSI-1 drives that can be low-level formated back into service, but any data that was on them is gone.) Hell, I have pressed CDs and DVDs that haven't survived 15 years.

      (Some might say the data I have on tape isn't worth saving for decades.)

    45. Re:Backup to tape? by sjames · · Score: 1

      Oh come on, clearly paper tape and punchcards are the way to go. If necessary you can just hire cheap labor to key them back in manually, just be sure to use error correction.

      I joke, but more seriously, if I had a small amount of data that must positively absolutely be readable 20 years from now with no excuses, I might actually consider it.

      I have a couple old HDs, some 51/2 inch floppies and a few decks of cards from bygone eras, guess which I can still read! Of course, none of them contain anything worth reading...

    46. Re:Backup to tape? by Cramer · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Plus, you'd be in deep sh*t when you got a drive back from storage to find it 100% completely unusable. HD are fine for online storage when coupled with periodic scrubbing, but for offline storage they are the most unreliable thing in the universe. (well, maybe not the worst, but pretty high up on the list.)

    47. Re:Backup to tape? by Cramer · · Score: 1

      That depends on what you see as a revision. SCSI-1, SCSI-2, SCSI-3, FC-1, FC-2, FC-3, ... and those are just command protocols. Async, Sync 5, 10, 20, 40, 80, 160, narrow, wide, ... Just in the SCSI world. How many different IDE protocols, speeds, and modes are there? PIO modes, DMA modes, Ultra DMA modes, ATA-X standards. Hard drive tech evolves just as fast as tape.

    48. Re:Backup to tape? by afidel · · Score: 1

      I'd bet that optical has an uncorrected bit error rate a couple orders of magnitude worse than HDD, but yeah you have the right idea =)

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    49. Re:Backup to tape? by baegucb · · Score: 1

      We replaced IBM's robot tape system with STK(now SUN) SL8500s. Two of them, miles apart. But mirroring hard drives miles apart works best imho. Manual mount tape drives aren't cost effective and other than for HSM, the STK robots are to keep customers who have their JCL coded for tapes.

    50. Re:Backup to tape? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uhhh ... MDF? Medium Density Fiberboard?

      Like what a hard drive inside an old-school Proptronix "computer" might be made out of?

      Or did the two of you mean MFM?

      Or am I missing an acronym?

    51. Re:Backup to tape? by Cramer · · Score: 1

      And your problem was 100% "VXA". That's not enterprise technology -- it's just cheap all the way around. Lemme guess, their previous backup tech was QIC-80 and Travan?

    52. Re:Backup to tape? by afidel · · Score: 1

      Yeah but a 5MB/s SCSI drive can be used with a U320 controller and a an original IDE drive can be used with a SATA 6G controller with a readily available adapter. That doesn't make HDD's superior to tape, but it does mean you should be able to read them with current tech slightly longer than tape. But that's beside the point, I've recovered 16 year old DLT tapes which is significantly older than the vast majority of businesses need and if you need longer IBM supports their tape formats basically forever for enough money =)

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    53. Re:Backup to tape? by deniable · · Score: 1

      If you're backing up trivial amounts of data, just use a USB stick. It's reusable. If you're backing up real data, you need something bigger. We use 3 Ultrium 3s for a full backup and we are a small operation.

    54. Re:Backup to tape? by afidel · · Score: 1

      LTO4 tapes are $30 in quantity, changes the equation quite a bit, 3.75c/GB before compression =)

      p.s. Your math was wrong even @ $50, it's 6.25c/GB without compression and the HDD is 7c/GB.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    55. Re:Backup to tape? by afidel · · Score: 1

      For reading you probably don't even need something that old, a DLTIV tape from 1994 can be read on a SDLT320 drive that's still sold new today =) Heck a DLTIII tape from 1989 can be read on a DLT7000 drive that you can also still buy new (for ~$150).

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    56. Re:Backup to tape? by dbIII · · Score: 1

      LTO5 is 1.5TB per tape uncompressed, and is likely to last a very long time since I can still read 9 track from the 1980s when required and there have been many improvements since then.
      Optical is very unreliable and hard drives have many points of failure even if they are left on a shelf for a few years, as well as being inherently fragile.
      Live backups to drives somewhere else are more convenient but are subject to changes that a tape in a box somewhere is not.

      If it's on a live drive somewhere it's just a copy, just a more elaborate way to have RAID. It's not a backup unless it's in a box, shelf or fireproof safe somewhere as bits on a medium with no electricity applied.

    57. Re:Backup to tape? by Cramer · · Score: 1

      The problem with tape is finding a drive to read them. That can be a bigger job than one might imagine. *cough*NASA*cough*

      The problem with hard drives is that they simply don't work after sitting on a shelf for many years. I've been to that dance too many times.

    58. Re:Backup to tape? by dbIII · · Score: 1

      In my case it's other people's data that was shipped to us on tape and theoretically there should be two other copies out there being shifted to new formats as the tapes age. In practice they sometimes throw them out and then ask us thirty years later to reprocess the seismic data that we now have the only copy of. In practice we do exactly what the parent poster suggests by having old drives available or by sending stuff like 9 track out to be transcribed to new media.
      Responsible management means doing exactly what you suggested, but in practice you can only look after your own patch and only keep the stuff you have. I could transcribe 4000 or more 9 track tapes and a larger number of newer formats of delivered client data to current technology, but that raises ugly legal hassles (not really our data to copy) and vast expenses. It's more likely that I'll only ever need a dozen of those reels in the next decade or two and they are still readable - what usually happens is the client sends their 1980s data again on a nice new LTO tape.

    59. Re:Backup to tape? by camperdave · · Score: 1

      You should look into something like a turtle case... or perhaps one of these.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    60. Re:Backup to tape? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's quite a lot of hate ;)

    61. Re:Backup to tape? by grub · · Score: 1

      We do: 48 tape LTO library at my location. Very fast, very safe.

      every time some story mentions tape there's some comment/question like yours.

      --
      Trolling is a art,
    62. Re:Backup to tape? by grub · · Score: 1

      You buy a tape drive nice ($$$) and add as many tapes as you want for long term storage. LTO4 is backward compatible in reading older LTO tapes. Where I work the money is in the data not the hardware. Hardware is just a commodity: our data is worth a fortune.

      --
      Trolling is a art,
    63. Re:Backup to tape? by ToasterMonkey · · Score: 1

      Tape speed isn't slow, LTO4 will do 240MB/s with 2:1 compressible content, your source probably can't keep up with that for most types of backups.

      ... all while encrypting it using digitally signed firmware =D

      Fibre tape drives also add a new dimension, that disks with today's software really can't compete with. Sharing arbitrary amounts of storage between N hosts of random OS type, without mapping/masking/zoning new LUNs each time you add capacity or having to use clustered filesystems. Like you basically said, most backup sources are going to be struggling to satiate a LTO4 drive, but each new drive is also a new spindle with access to your entire volume of data. You can't just add new spindles to the same pool of harddrive storage, it doesn't scale up. With tape, drives could be added, some shared X ways, some shared Y ways to scale bandwidth any way I want, and I manage the capacity entirely independently.

    64. Re:Backup to tape? by ender- · · Score: 1

      Darn right we do.
      Weekly Full + Daily Incrementals -> Disk Array. Kept for 35 days
      Monthly Archive -> Tape. Shipped offsite and held for 7 years.

      Luckily the data being archived to tape fits on a single LTO4 tape.

      At todays prices, 7 years worth of LTO4 monthly offsite tapes costs about $6000
      7 years worth of 1TB drives [Enterprise class] to ship offsite would cost about $25,000

      Yup. Even after paying $4000 for a 24tape robot [1 x LTO4 drive], tape wins handily for us, even ignoring the much better shelf reliability of tape.

    65. Re:Backup to tape? by zero0ne · · Score: 1

      TahoeLAFS distributed on every Training & other non production PC using between 20-40GB of the HDD space (between a 40 - 80GB HD in each tower).

      That gives me 1.8TB raw storage, but then the way Tahoe works it ends up getting cut into roughly a quarter, leaving me with ~450GB of encrypted, easily recoverable data.
      (If I were to use production stations, that 450GB would become ~2.6TB).

      As long as no more than 4 of the 8 PC's the data is stored on is turned off, you can get the data.

    66. Re:Backup to tape? by Eivind · · Score: 1

      That is an excellent point, one people ALWAYS miss. Long shelf-life is not productive in a setting where storage space pro dollar increases exponentially. Because the maintenance, verification, reading-equipment and so on gets MORE expensive over time, whereas the data-amount gets more and more trivial.

      Sure, you could try to maintain the infrastructure for reading 50MB tapes from 1985. But would that really be cheaper than having those 50% occupy a TRIVIAL part of a modern HDD ?

      By the time it gets tricky to find computers with a IDE-connection, the data from that IDE-disk will occupy a trivial percentage of a SATA-disk. By the time it gets hard to find computers with SATA-connections, you can take an image of that 2TB sata-disk, and store it as an email-attachment in your gmail account. :)

    67. Re:Backup to tape? by rdebath · · Score: 1

      NASA!?

      The original tape drives cost $330000 EACH in about '66. And yet she was able to get the tapes read with a cost of only $250000. And just how much inflation do you think there has been since then?

      I think that this is a very strong statement FOR tape drives, they were able to read the tapes forty years later despite the drive being super expensive and very rare even when it was in production.

      I think the Smithsonian might have a working hard drive from that time, but if it's got any data on it, it came off a tape.

    68. Re:Backup to tape? by Cramer · · Score: 1

      Yes, NASA. They had numerous tapes from the Apollo days with no drives to read them and no one who knew how they were written. The encoding is just as important as the device.

      Tapes clearly have the win in longevity. However, failing to keep the hardware necessary to read them can be a huge headache.

    69. Re:Backup to tape? by hesaigo999ca · · Score: 1

      I read your post, and although I am a networking newb...I have to ask, how much room do you have on one tape, because it sounds to me like you can place 2tb on a tape (is that right?)

      I guess the only real advantage is that tape being sulphur based would get consumed
      (almost spark and explode) too easily during a fire, or even small in house one....while you got the fire extinguisher...they would disappear, where as a hdd at least has some protection to a certain amount of heat for a little time...you could cool them off quite easily by blowing a fan on them and have enough time withe the hdd to transfer over all the data to secure its contents.

    70. Re:Backup to tape? by Sandbags · · Score: 4, Interesting

      ...and that's why offline HDD storage should equally be in RAID format.

      That said, I worked for a D2D disaster recovery provider, and one time only we had issues recovering data from an archive drive due to disk failure. Suspicion was the drives were pulled before the job actually finished.

      Now, HDDs sitting idle have a bit failure decay measured in years. Worst case, if the drive mechanism failes, the platters are still fully readable and easily recovered. Data being pulled from legal hold usually has no timeframe recovery requirements (unlike disaster recovery, there's no SLA for court requests of data), and worst case, HDD repair is a viable option.

      Tapes have a bit failure rate measured in days, typically 30 for most tapes, and once data decays from the tape, it can not be recovered. Also, most typically, a tape recorded on one set of drives can not be read by another set of identical drives. often, the very same drive has trouble reading its own tapes if they've been shuffled out of the building and back in months later. I used to do an experiment in a classroom teaching DR methods where I'd perform a backup and bit-level verify (and only 3 in 10 pass verify at the bit level, but assuming it passed I'd continue, then I'd take the tape out of the drive, drop it just 6 inches to a table, flat, then put it back in the drive and repeat verify, and it would predictably fail 100% of the time. I'd repeat that with a hard disk backup of the same data set, let each person in the room drop the drive from shoulder height to the floor, then repeat the verify, and I never once had a failure (though once I had trouble getting the drive back in the tray slot).

      --
      There is no contest in life for which the unprepared have the advantage.
    71. Re:Backup to tape? by Sandbags · · Score: 1

      Mean time between bit failure on a linear tape is 30 days.

      That means 1 bit on that tape will be unreadable, or flipped, within 30 days. Assuming your tape uses parity writing, that's not much of an issue, but data failure may occur after a few months. This assumes lab quality storage conditions and treatment of the tape. imagine the same tape traveling in an iron box across town and back, and all the shuffling in warehouses and back to you eventually, not to mention the magnetic interference going up/down a few elevator shafts...

      MTBF for bits on a HDD platter are measured in years, not days.

      --
      There is no contest in life for which the unprepared have the advantage.
    72. Re:Backup to tape? by Sandbags · · Score: 2, Informative

      SATA ports have been on mainboards for nearly 10 years. IDE is a near 20 year old technology and IDE drives are still available. The format methods for disks are current, and data is EASILY migrated from one partition format to another. SATA 6 is backward compatible with SATA I drives and PCI IDE adapters cost about $15. (or USB external adapters)

      Backups should not do 10 years without being migrated, and disk hardware 10m years from now is practically guaranteed to be available to read your disks, and legacy hardware is cheap and easily acquired. Tape hardware migrates to new formats every few years, can only be read in proprietary devices by proprietary software in most cases. Acquiring even a 5 year old legacy tape drive is near impossible, and new tape drives have significant issues reading any more than 1 previous tape generation. Migration to new tapes should happen every 3 years, at a cost of about $80/tape. HDD can go 7-10 years between migrations, at a cost of about the same per drive, but with greater capacity in most cases, easier migration tools, readily available, and drive sets can be RAID sets adding reliability and parity on inexpensive hardware.

      --
      There is no contest in life for which the unprepared have the advantage.
    73. Re:Backup to tape? by Sandbags · · Score: 1

      oh, 1.6TB compressed? Really?

      Compared to a $100 1.5TB HDD, that's 3TB compressed vs your 2 tapes to meet the same, so the cost is nearly a wash on media, and the HDD caddy for 16 drives is under $1K, but the tape drive to read 1 tape at a time in that capacity is probably $4K, and only accepts that capacity and some limited older tape support (not larger in the future, or 10 year old SATA disks from the past).

      But, lets look at some REAL numbers:
      a) what actually IS your compression ratio?
      b) what actually is the max capacity of your tapes in reality (check your logs).

      1.6Tb is the max theoretical storage at 2:1 compression, but that assumes no write failures, and assumes your hardware based compression (oh, that costs extra?), actually meets 2:1. See, with a disk, if there's a write failure during backup (rare on spinning disk), it rewrites to the same disk sector. If a tape has a write failure on backup, just 1 bit, it markes a whole tape block with a hash and keeps running. Your cleaning light comes on when you have between 8 and 16 write failures IN A ROW on more than 3 separate places on the same tape, imagine how much tape your wasting when those failures are not all in a row... I've seen 400GB native tapes have a validated capacity under 80GB after a "successful" backup.

      Check your tape logs and see just how much tape you are ACTUALLY using, vs the tape your wasting.

      Tapes can be cheaper, if you use LOTS of them every day, and have a ridiculous regiment for storing all tapes indefinitely, and rarely if ever overwrite tapes with new backups. however, if your drives are aging, tapes are heavily used, you're wasting money rotating and disposing of them (no tape should ever be used more than 15 times, tapes for long term archive should be brand new and never part of a rotation, a mistake most people make only archiving their oldest tapes, dumb). You're loosing tape storage, your compression ratio is likely nowhere near reality (especially if its not hardware based), and a 1.6Tb tape, just like a HDD, doesn't store 1.6TB of compressed data (most 800s are lucky to get 600GB native 1,000-1100 compressed). ...and that doesn't factor tape hardware costs, chip-in-tape costs, cleaning tape costs (oh, btw, how often are you using/replacing your cleaning tapes?) and more.

      --
      There is no contest in life for which the unprepared have the advantage.
    74. Re:Backup to tape? by Sandbags · · Score: 1

      A HDD can survive a 300G shock, and is atmosphere nuetral. Tapes can't survive 20G shocks, are open exposed to the environment, and even LIGHTING can degrade their state.

      MTBF at the bit level on a tape is measured at 30 days, for optical it's about 90 days, for HDD platters its measured in years. HDDs also can easily be rebuilt if there are head issues in an old drive, and data recovery is easy. With a tape, it's virtually impossible to even read a good tape in a drive it was not made on.

      --
      There is no contest in life for which the unprepared have the advantage.
    75. Re:Backup to tape? by Sandbags · · Score: 1

      1) a good D2D system uses RAID 5 data sets across disk sets, not individual disks. Tapes don;t do parity striping scross sets so loosing jkust 1 tape in a job set can ruin the entire backup set. Loosing 1 disk means nothing.
      2) i used to do DR demos, and I'd drop a bit verified tape just 6 inches and watch it fail a bit level verify, while I had a hard disk I made the team play hot-potato with for 10 minutes, then pass a bit verify.

      HDDs are designed for 300G shocks, and when not in use can survive freezing and fairly extreme heat, and are immune to basic environmental issues (even rain if allowed to dry, worst case you replace the board...).

      When shipping HDDs, typically they''re in sleeves, bubble wrap, or a foam case. Tapes are stacked in a box.

      If you;re telling me cheap plastic and an open air medium is more resilient than a metal casing and hermetic sealing, i want what you smoke.

      --
      There is no contest in life for which the unprepared have the advantage.
    76. Re:Backup to tape? by Sandbags · · Score: 1

      HDDs can be rebuilt, easy, and relatively cheap. The MTBF of an unused disk on a shelf is measured in years, and the "stuck spindle" issue is a forgone issue and no longer applies to modern disks (even a slight vibration overrides locked disks). Tapes settle, unspool, are open to the air and bacteria and corrosion, and the tiny chip in the tape is critical to it being readable, the chips in a HDD can be replaced with no trouble.

      Metalic tape has a MTBF of 30 days for bit failure. Their long terms storage is entirely dependent on their parity algorithm. MTBF of a bit on a physical disk is measured in YEARS. Also, a single tape failure in a backup set can ruin the entire set, where a disk failure in a striped RAID disk archive means NOTHING (its a RAID!).

      --
      There is no contest in life for which the unprepared have the advantage.
    77. Re:Backup to tape? by nizo · · Score: 1

      Actually I'm glad I posted my comment, because there are several options for tape that weren't there when I last looked. There was a point there where tapes (especially the drives) were insanely expensive for pretty small capacities AND they were slower than hell (compared to the hard drives at the time). I'm definitely going to look at them again now.

    78. Re:Backup to tape? by Sandbags · · Score: 1

      I've been using D2D offsite backups for 7 years. Shipping disks every day. 1 time we had an issue recovering from 1 disk, and best we could tell it was because the backup actually never finished, the disk was 100% fine.

      I've used tapes for 20 years. I have at best 20% success rate recovering entire systems from a tape thats been offsite for more than 1 week, and maybe 60% success recovering single files or folders, and if the drive heads have been changed since the tape was made, recovery likelyhood drops to about 10%.

      A 5 year old tape is very hard to find a reader for. A SATA port can be added to even the oldest boards, and an IDE port can be added the the newest. No special hardware or software is required to read my disk backups.

      If a tape drive breaks (had that happen many many times in my career) old tapes rarely read on the new drive (even same model). If my server farm is destroyed, i don't even need the same legacy teck, I can use the insurance money on shiny new hardware and still read my offsite disks with no issues.

      Backups tapes are cheap plastic and exposed to air, and are a linear set. one bad tape equals an entire bad dataset. Disks we archive in 4 disk RAID 5 sets, are hermetically sealed, and far more resilient. Drisk inside of rail kists that use rubber grommets for better protection packed into hard cases of foam liner. We've dropped them off a 5th story roof to a driveway as a test, and the plastic casing on the rails was instact and we got 100% successful bit read across 8 disks. I've dropped tapes 6 incheas onto a table and fail bit verifies (I used to do that as an example in a demo of how unreliable tape is).

      --
      There is no contest in life for which the unprepared have the advantage.
    79. Re:Backup to tape? by b0bby · · Score: 1

      30 2TB external drives are about $4500 right now; I haven't priced 1.6TB tape drives recently, but 30 tapes alone have got to be around $3000, plus the cost of the drive. I stuck with tapes as long as my drives worked, but when they died it seemed like hard drives were the way to go and I've been happy with it.

    80. Re:Backup to tape? by vegiVamp · · Score: 1

      Where do you find 1G sata for $60 ? New and reliable, please. Best I can find them is about €90.

      --
      What a depressingly stupid machine.
    81. Re:Backup to tape? by vegiVamp · · Score: 1

      I was going to say "15 disks ? Joker, we've got three large tape libraries", but you've already mentioned the price of a disk cabinet vs a tape library, which goes some way towards your side of the argument.

      However, two points:

      1. Standard Linux kernel has a limit of 256 devices. Quite the limit on your available number of disks. Maybe you can fix that in the Linux kernel, but you have to wonder about similar restrictions for our Windows and OSX friends.

      2. The amount of power required to spin (let alone start) hundreds of disks is several orders of magnitude larger than that required to spin a dozen tape drives.

      --
      What a depressingly stupid machine.
    82. Re:Backup to tape? by Cramer · · Score: 1

      I have to call complete bullshit on you tape FUD. Modern enterprise class tape systems (DDS, AIT, Mammoth, DLT, SDLT, and LTO) are designed to last decades. And DO. I've never had any problems moving any of those formats between drives -- even of different ages and manufacturers. For (S)DLT and LTO, unless you throw the tapes hard enough to case physical damage to the case, the tape inside it will be 100% uneffected. 4mm and 8mm tapes aren't as sturdy, but as long as the tape isn't physically damaged, it'll still be readable.

      There are and have been a lot of crap tape systems out there. However, it only takes a few minutes to figure out they're crap and avoid them. For example, QIC-80 which has all the problems you just described. In most cases, the tape is unreadable by the time you finish writing it. When it is readable, it'll only be readable in the same drive. Mere shaking can make the tape align differently on the head rendering it unreadable. That's why no one used that crap for very long.

      Buy quality technology and it'll work for years. Hard drives just don't last that long -- esp. the cheap ones. The cost of sending a single drive to a data recovery house will easily pay for a tape backup system.

    83. Re:Backup to tape? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Funny. I have tapes over 5+ years old that has valid data on it and is pulled back just fine.

      Court requests for data often have an expected retrieval time. Eventually if the data isn't produced in time or a firm date set the judge will assume that something bad is in the data and award the data seeking party.

      I have zero issues moving tapes among multiple different drives from different vendors. I've never had a tape be readable in ONE drive and NOT in another (I have had some drives not like certain vendor cleaning media). I have had tapes fail, often tapes located in the same batch will fail. Just like I've had HDD fail from the same batch, system boards, and array controllers. Hell, I've watched a SAN with the same batch hdd's fail down the row within two weeks.

      Both media have their strengths and weakness. Most of what you said about tape is entirely inaccurate and I question your experience dropping HDDs as well. I've see a lot shorter falls (inches) shatter platters on drives. I've dropped numerous tapes and kicked them and sent them via fedex and still had all my data.

      HOW did he get a score of 4? Interesting. Are only people with no experience voting these days?

    84. Re:Backup to tape? by Sandbags · · Score: 1

      I worked in the DR industry for years, and supperted DR syystems as a consultant for hundreds of different clients for a decade. I've done thousands of restores on dozens of tape technologies.

      yes, newer tape systems are more resilient. however, the tape itself is not. magnetic metal media exposed to the open air in a cartridge can not possible be as stable as a hermetically sealed drive system in a disk.

      tape mis-alignment due to sagging spindles (where the tape in the spool slides against itself due to vibration, and creates a conical shape inside of the drive instead of a flat real, later when read, or even just retention ed, can cause the tape to rub against the inside of the cartridge and heat, causing data loss.

      A tape itself, without heads, may technically be capable of surviving more Gs of force in a drop (though the plastic corners, not to much), but a disk drive can easily survive a drop from the server to the floor if you're not careful and drop it. In a caddy in a shipping case, we've thrown them from 5th story windows to concrete, repeatedly, and had no issues. We've even frozen a drive in a block of ice and read from it (still frozen!). In a fire safe, a HDDs control board will melt away, but the spindles inside the drive chassis will be fine beyond 250 degrees and the disk can be rebuilt and read fine, but a tape will simply melt, even inside a fire safe (which are only designed to keep internal temperatures below the combustion point of paper, a "media safe" is a whole different thing, and VERY expensive).

      HDDs are fast, have parity across disk sets, don;t require expensive robotics and drive heads, and run on common (not arcane, ancient SCSI protocols like MTX), and have better longevity. Disks can alsdo be reused hundreds of times, a tape 10-20 if you;re lucky.

      Many of my clients use disk for the rotational and daily backups, as well as the local and remote archive live copies (so restores are from in-house disk, and only archives are offsite, saving time). Long term archives are often to tape still as it CAN be cheaper, but I'd only trust it in weather controlled facilities.

      The last firm i worked for shipped over 15,000 hard drives to be used for D2D backup. Drives do fail occasionally, and they're warranty replaced on a regular basis, but never in the 3.5 year history of working for them had a single backup not been recoverable, aside 1 we suspected was due to a backup not having been truly complete when the disk was removed (user did not run the command to spin down the SATA slot, they just pulled the drive).

      Boards, controllers, that has nothing to do with data loss from archives, that would only cause the active JOB to fail. Fix the issue and run it again. When a tape drive fails, it costs thousands to replace (if you can get a compatible model). When an array controller fails, they're $500...

      I was a skeptic for D2D when i heard about it in 2001. After working for a firm for years that worked with it, I've never looked back. My current employer has a massive IBM infrastructure, almost all tape, more than 20,000 tapes in storage. no way is that going away, there's legal hold data we simple have to keep, and thousands of terrabytes in archive we could not afford to migrate to disk (nor do we have time). However, we're addding D2D capacity to TSM constantly, and in a year if we're lucky, won't be using tape at all anymore. They think that will save us about 500K a year, and provide for near instant restores of files (current recovery of a single file can take 12-36 hours depending on where it comes from) That migration started before i got here, and I've kept silent on my opinion siting conflict of interest (I'm in a position to make purchase decisions, and my former employer is a bidder, so I abstain from comment entirely).

      --
      There is no contest in life for which the unprepared have the advantage.
    85. Re:Backup to tape? by b0bby · · Score: 1

      Well, but those are actually 800GB native; you can get 1.6TB native but like I guessed the tapes are around $100. With tape I have always gone by native and taken compression as a bonus, especially since the bulk of our data is images which don't compress well. If you're doing over a TB nightly, the 800GB native tapes may well not cut it for you.

  7. Step 1 by masterwit · · Score: 1

    Don't trust articles that have:

    Created 2010-06-01 03:00AM

    before the "well thought out" advice.

    --
    We should start a new Slashdot and return control to the geeks. It actually wouldn't be that hard to get some users to
    1. Re:Step 1 by mirix · · Score: 1

      I tend to do my best thinking in the middle of the night.

      --
      Sent from my PDP-11
    2. Re:Step 1 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, because some guy or gal was up at 3 in the morning clicking the Publish button. Couldn't have been an automated publishing at all; nope, no siree.

    3. Re:Step 1 by masterwit · · Score: 1

      I mean your right, was meant as a joke...being that someone dealing with "Network Performance" issues has probably been caught up that late on occasion.

      --
      We should start a new Slashdot and return control to the geeks. It actually wouldn't be that hard to get some users to
  8. #1 tip by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    #1 tip

    Pull the ethernet cord that runs to your bastard roommate's computer. You know, the one who is always downloading porn when you are trying to frag noobs. That guy is a prick.

    1. Re:#1 tip by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      #2

      Install tomato on your WRT(whatever the model is), throttle his connection speed to 256k

  9. great and useless advices :) by roman_mir · · Score: 1

    Like 'know your apps' means anything in the corporate world, especially when apps are custom built, what are you going to do, replace a custom built app with something else? If it was easy like that then why was it custom built in the first place? Sure, some custom apps can be replaced with out of box stuff, but seriously speaking, most cannot, and then your administrator is in the hands of the geniuses in the management, business, marketing, and software development departments :)

    1. Re:great and useless advices :) by xianthax · · Score: 2, Insightful

      i think you misunderstood.

      Know your apps means knowing their bottlenecks and how to alleviate them.

      Some apps have high sustained disk reads, some writes.

      Some have high amounts of random reads, some randoms writes, some both.

      Some apps are I/O bound, some memory bound, some CPU bound.

      The source of the app has nothing to do with your ability to monitor the operation of the app and determine its infrastructure needs.

    2. Re:great and useless advices :) by roman_mir · · Score: 1

      I understood very well, my point is that in an environment with many various apps, it is going to be extremely difficult to first 'know' them and second to optimize for them. I am remembering a few places I worked at, there is no time for an admin to do even normal everyday activities, like various heat tickets, forget about having time and a lab! to do actual studying of apps and possible optimizations.

      Hey, as I said, the advice is wonderful and those who can afford it (like Google I guess) are doing it already.

    3. Re:great and useless advices :) by xianthax · · Score: 1

      I think your just saying that your management sucked.

      Sounds like they didn't realize that implementing correct monitoring infrastructure, testing infrastructure and using that data to optimize your production infrastructure was a long term cost savings over barreling ahead under the 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' ideal.

      Sounds like a management failure not that the article didn't provide valuable information.

    4. Re:great and useless advices :) by turbidostato · · Score: 1

      "Sounds like they didn't realize that implementing correct monitoring infrastructure, testing infrastructure and using that data to optimize your production infrastructure was a long term cost savings over barreling ahead under the 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' ideal."

      Except when, well... it is not... which happens to be the case in an awful lot of cases.

      At the very mininum your time costs 100$/hour to your company (not even mentioning the oportunity costs). That means that, more or less, a single day of your labour can buy them another cheap server. Compound this with a flexible (or, more to the truth, hurrying) environment where time-to-market is a very precious value and you'll get that in so many times the half-assed, made in a hurry, ashamingly dirty hack becomes *the* proper solution no matter how disgusting we, technosavvies, find it.

      This is not to say that proper implementation, monitoring and optimization are not important: when they are important they are paramountly important. But the case is that it's not always as important as we tend to think.

    5. Re:great and useless advices :) by afidel · · Score: 1

      $100/hour is WAY high, our average across our organization is $45/hour and that's averaging in executives. $45/hour is $60k/year plus overhead with very good benefits and assuming everyone takes full advantage.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    6. Re:great and useless advices :) by turbidostato · · Score: 1

      "our average across our organization is $45/hour"

      That's what you get, not what you cost. Do those 45$/hour count the cost for your share on office space, electricity, taxes, infrastructures, etc.?

  10. Outsource everything to Google. by ickleberry · · Score: 4, Funny

    Just give Eric Schmidt a call, tell him you have nothing to hide from his company or the government and they will replace all your machines with shiny new Google Chrome OS based "Net tops", put all your data on their servers, give you a brand new direct fibre optic connection to their nearest office and all they want in return is the ability to meticulously sift through your data in order to find the best way to bombard you with text-based ads.

    Everything is more shiny with Google.

    1. Re:Outsource everything to Google. by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 1

      all they want in return is the ability to meticulously sift through your data in order to find the best way to bombard you with text-based ads.
       

      And to insert their ads on your printed reports.

    2. Re:Outsource everything to Google. by Mishotaki · · Score: 1

      Everything is more shiny with Google.

      Screw mirror finish, i want my car to have a Google finish and blind everyone with the reflection!

    3. Re:Outsource everything to Google. by Jeng · · Score: 1

      As long as its not flash based web banners.

      --
      Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
    4. Re:Outsource everything to Google. by izomiac · · Score: 1

      I was about to laugh before I realized that I don't doubt they'll do that in the not-so-distant future. Beware if your expense spreadsheet has an ad for bankruptcy lawyers...

  11. 2Base-TL by thule · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What reason is there to run T1/T3 anymore? I know, by definition, the regulation over T1/T3 guarantees reliability. I have dumped T1's and switch to 2Base-TL (aka Metro Ethernet) and it is extremely reliable. For me, the "more reliable" argument doesn't hold much. The latency is very, very good -- often below 10ms. Even if the network goes down, I can afford some sort of backup link. I'm paying under $1,000/month for 10mbit (symmetrical). The footprint for 2Base-TL is pretty good because it is based on DSL technology. It doesn't have the reach that T1's have, but it isn't bad. The big difference is that is spreads the signal over multiple pairs of wire (in my case, 8 pairs) instead of a single pair.

    If your company has T1's, shed yourself of the "regulated" links and check out 2Base-TL. You will be glad you did.

    1. Re:2Base-TL by Em+Emalb · · Score: 1

      Agreed, Metro-E is pretty fantastic for small to mid-sized businesses.

      T1s, t3s and up are pretty much archaic anymore in urban areas. Sure, small companies can get by with a t1 or two, but why bother?

      Metro-E is typically just as cheap if not cheaper for more bandwidth/better throughput.

      --
      Sent from your iPad.
    2. Re:2Base-TL by BagOBones · · Score: 4, Interesting

      For our US offices all we can get with a decent SLA is Factors of T1, we get Fiber/Ethernet service in Canada 10x faster for the same cost and SLA.

      --
      EA David Gardner -"... but the consumers have proven that actually what they want is fun."
    3. Re:2Base-TL by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      What kind of SLA do you get on that?

      Uptime is more important than speed to some folks.

    4. Re:2Base-TL by afidel · · Score: 1

      We pay $3k for 20Mbit commit 45Mbit burstable on a DS3, I'll take that and a SLA with teeth over your metro ethernet solution considering the annual difference in cost would be wiped out in ~30 minutes of lost productivity.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    5. Re:2Base-TL by Paralizer · · Score: 1
      We run T1's everywhere, sometimes two in a bundle. It sucks but it's available almost anywhere, unlike metro ethernet.

      According to AT&T

      This service is currently available in the following states:

      • Alabama
      • Florida
      • Georgia
      • Kentucky
      • Louisiana
      • Mississippi
      • North Carolina
      • South Carolina
      • Tennessee
    6. Re:2Base-TL by QuantumRiff · · Score: 1

      Thats handy, if all your offices are in one town. If you have offices all over the country, its difficult to deal with multiple providers, and SLA's, and creating VPN links between them. (and the fun of monitoring all that!)

      Also, with T1's, if you have a bunch going out to different offices, you can have the provider MUX them together, so your core location has one DS3 coming in, carrying all your T1's on it, instead of dozens of CSU/DSU devices plugged into routers.

      --

      What are we going to do tonight Brain?
    7. Re:2Base-TL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      In my home town 100Mbit upload speed/100Mbit download speed is worth under $20/month and the reliability is 99.999%. I might as well die laughing... I'm from Eastern Europe...

    8. Re:2Base-TL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We pay about that much, except it's for fiber (AT&T Opt-E-Man). 10mbit as well, and very very scalable. It did take about 4 months to get installed though.

    9. Re:2Base-TL by Karrots · · Score: 1

      Our MOE link is 99.9% by default but if you purchase the protected path option it goes up to 99.99% add on QOS and they offer 99.999%. We didn't add on any of the fancy features and the only outages we have noticed in the 4 years we have been running it has been our own extended power outage after the UPS ran for 3 hours. The generator was turned off because they were hooking up the mains to a new building next door otherwise we wouldn't have gone down.

    10. Re:2Base-TL by Karrots · · Score: 1

      See my comment above about SLA. We have had our MOE link for 4 years and have had no problems with it. Our cost for 100Mbit is about the same as your cost for the DS3. We are an educational institution so that accounts for some of it. Just for reference T1's have a max cost of $350 for us.

    11. Re:2Base-TL by Cramer · · Score: 1

      First problem... availability. Metro-E isn't available everywhere. The second problem... cost. This is the ever moving target in the equation. I've (sadly) found traditional tariffed services to be cheaper than the non-tariffed newcomers. Of course, I live in the territory of the stupid and lazy -- Bellsouth and Timewarner. (no matter who your ISP is, one (or both) of them will be involved.)

    12. Re:2Base-TL by afidel · · Score: 1

      Does the protected path option double the recurring cost or does it only add to the setup cost? I'm asking because the pricing sheet looks good and I'd consider moving our Salt Lake City office to it when their current contract expires if you can get 99.99% SLA for the cost of the 10Mbps plan.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    13. Re:2Base-TL by Karrots · · Score: 1

      Unknown as we didn't even look at the protected path. On Qwests Geomax product the SLA's are the same if I remember correctly protected path gives you 4 nines and regular gives you 3 nines. Because Geomax is DWDM they can't really give you a QOS option. The reason for the QOS on the QMOE is that its just a VPLS backbone so you could get over subscribed some where. The one time cost really depends on the fiber build out costs and the type of optics you want on the ends. I would guess depending on where you are in SLC it wouldn't be much. With the QMOE you pay per side so if you are going to be connecting two sites the cost doubles. I don't know how ISP's like say Xmission do it as they have a aggregation MOE link and they just dump customers on it. My guess is they have the customer share some of the cost some how.

      Qwest puts Cisco 3750 Metro edition on the Customer side of the drop. The backbone is on Cisco 6500's. I know our link happens to run through only one 6500 so that may help in the great service we get as its a little harder to get killed by over subscription when you don't go over any aggregation links.

      Someone else to look into is Comcast's Enterprise services. They are priced very competitively with Qwest's QMOE and they offer four 9's (if I remember correctly) on all of their contracts. This isn't their workplace DOCSIS service but their enterprise fiber service. They like to push that their service is MEF 14 and MEF 19 compliant when their competitor isn't.

    14. Re:2Base-TL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is not the right way to use the word 'anymore'.

      That is all.

      Thank you.

  12. Citrix/VDI/etc by nurb432 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Get rid of fat clients, that will do wonders to reduce your network bandwidth needs out to the customer. Then beef up the datacenter network.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    1. Re:Citrix/VDI/etc by xianthax · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This is probably the first time I've seen the claim that thin clients _reduce_ network traffic.

      Care to elaborate?

    2. Re:Citrix/VDI/etc by afidel · · Score: 1

      VS having everyone drag files and email all over the WAN? Yeah it will significantly reduce your network traffic.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    3. Re:Citrix/VDI/etc by nurb432 · · Score: 1

      The last place i was at was where we did this on a large scale we were running oracle apps at the client. Moving to thin client reduced our network use a ton. ( and saved us from having to update our workstations.. why client/server apps need higher end workstations i still beyond me and sort of defeats the purpose. )

      Sure if all your users do is browse pretty pictures on the internet it might not help much, but sticking to regular productivity apps will.

      VDI should help in either case, working on a POC now.

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    4. Re:Citrix/VDI/etc by BitZtream · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Not.

      Sending an image of an email in outlook that takes half a meg EVERY time it gets viewed is hardly better than sending 15k of html to the client which is cached and displayed locally.

      Theres a reason we don't use HTML instead of just sending prerendered images over the web.

      Resending an large image every time you hit backspace in Word is hardly intelligent use of bandwidth.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    5. Re:Citrix/VDI/etc by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      Your Oracle apps sucked then.

      Proper use of cursors and result caching will resolve those issues rather quickly.

      I'm not denying your claim that bandwidth usage was better with VDI, but thats just because your apps were REALLY crappy.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    6. Re:Citrix/VDI/etc by afidel · · Score: 2, Informative

      Hehe, you have no clue what you are talking about, ICA is completely usable over dialup, there is no half meg image.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    7. Re:Citrix/VDI/etc by deniable · · Score: 1

      RDP and VNC don't do a half meg image either. Not as good on dialup, but better than sucking the files down to the local box.

    8. Re:Citrix/VDI/etc by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      watching youtube HD/porn is lame when ur screen doesnt refresh very fast.

  13. Back to 56k by Mishotaki · · Score: 3, Funny

    Slow down your internet connection to a single 56k line... then people will stop trying to use it to look for porn and all the useless crap searches they do on google... You'll also save some money with the monthly bills!

    1. Re:Back to 56k by deniable · · Score: 1

      Nah, just choke it down and use a filtering proxy. You've then got a lot of spare pipe for 'research' or reading Slashdot. Gotta go, the boss is back.

  14. monitoring tools by WarJolt · · Score: 4, Interesting

    once I told a coworker about emule. He downloaded and installed it. The next morning the CFO comes to me.... "Have you ever heard about emule"...the infastructure was screwed up, but instead of fix it they waited for p2p to bring the network to it's knees. The best way to test a network is to see how many simultaneous p2p connections it can handle before crapping out. Needless to say there were some consequenced for that employee.

    1. Re:monitoring tools by BagOBones · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No the best way is to see if p2p is already blocked.. Tossing bandwidth at the problem is not always the best solution.

      --
      EA David Gardner -"... but the consumers have proven that actually what they want is fun."
    2. Re:monitoring tools by clarkn0va · · Score: 2, Informative

      Handling p2p is not so much about bandwidth as it is about routing capacity and QoS. There's a reason that a proper Linux-equipped home router can withstand torrents with literally thousands of open connections, while your typical DLink or Trendnet will buckle somewhere around 150, and I don't care what your link speed is.

      Similarly, a good healthy torernt can saturdate just about any WAN link you want to throw at, but only a proper QoS solution will keep a 1mbit connection responsive under a comparable load.

      --
      I am literally 3000 tokens away from the chaotic crossbow --Stephen
  15. Meh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Doesn't really help me improve my network performance at home.

    1. Re:Meh by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      #1 way to do that would be buy real network gear.

  16. Mostly Worthless by Rantastic · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It frightens me to think that there are people getting paid to take care of enterprise systems that would not already know everything in this article. Mostly, it reads like a thinly veiled ad for VMWare products.

    --
    Ask Slashdot: Where bad ideas meet poor googling skills.
    1. Re:Mostly Worthless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It frightens me to think that there are people getting paid to take care of enterprise systems that would not already know everything in this article. Mostly, it reads like a thinly veiled ad for VMWare products.

      I am in a situation you describe. Our 300 person IT environment is shite, the rest of the staff isn't educated, and the person making the IT decisions (top level) is from a drafting background (autocad) who likes to 'play around' with win2k servers now again.

      So what can I do to learn the things necessary to supporting an entire IT infrastructure? If nobody else is going to do it properly, I might as well learn from an external source so that I may bring forward better ideas.

      Is there somewhere I can learn the nuances of IT Management from the top down?

  17. How about Jumbo frames by E-Lad · · Score: 1

    The article suggests things that people worth their IT salt should have already implemented, or at least investigated. Really baseline stuff there.

    However one big oversight I see a lot w.r.t. backups and local networks which toss large amounts of data around are configuring jumbo frames. This is often forgotten about when throughput is getting tight.

    1. Re:How about Jumbo frames by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Throughput being tight is not a reason for jumbo frames. With normal frames you're just short of 3%, with jumbo's you'll get to about .5% overhead. While this is an improvement, this isn't going to save your network if bandwidth is tight. The real reason for jumbo's is processing overhead. Depending on the system, NIC hardware and/or drivers this may or may not be an actual problem on your system. This day and age it should not be an issue with Gig links. ..and don't forget the extra headaches you introduce with jumbo's...

  18. Additional Tip: +1, Helpful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ban ALL Microsoft products. The worst is WORD.

    Yours In Tashkent,
    Kilgore T.

  19. #1 - separate leisure activity by bl8n8r · · Score: 1

    run ntop off a span port or tap. You'll see the majority of your network traffic is from users idling away on things not quite work related. Separate egres traffic on port 80 and 443 with linux htb, tcng or equivalent profiling. Saves you bandwidth that exchange will immediately suck up.

    --
    boycott slashdot February 10th - 17th check out: altSlashdot.org
  20. For web servers by hackstraw · · Score: 1

    Write your HTML in notepad, just like the linked article :)

    Seriously, I was almost shocked to see such a barebones site. Its been that long.

    1. Re:For web servers by kyrio · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Really? You've never heard of "print (pre)view"?

    2. Re:For web servers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We were linked the "print" version, with CSS basically stripped. Tasks requiring observational skill are not your forte.

  21. Don't fight the system, use it. by Colin+Smith · · Score: 3, Informative

    Run remote desktops. Bandwidth consumption to the desktop drops dramatically.
    Run your heavy network I/O over the switch stacking fabric, where you've got shit loads of bandwidth. Channel bond.
    Separate access ports/switches and storage network ports/switches. Use jumbo frames on the storage network, but don't route them.
    Prefer shared memory first, then unix domain sockets over TCP/IP/LAN over WAN. Microsecond (or better) latency vs milliseconds or seconds.
    Dedicate servers to applications, take advantage of copy on write & modern memory management.
    Let your VM management hold a significant proportion of dirty pages. WTF is the point of loads of RAM if you insist on running at disk speed? But do use a logged filesystem.
    Use a load management system. Grid Engine, Condor etc.

    --
    Deleted
    1. Re:Don't fight the system, use it. by Colin+Smith · · Score: 1

      Oh yeah I forgot. That'll be $20k consultancy please.

       

      --
      Deleted
    2. Re:Don't fight the system, use it. by ColdWetDog · · Score: 2, Funny

      How do I configure my Airport to do this? They said it was professional quality at the Apple store.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    3. Re:Don't fight the system, use it. by jd · · Score: 1

      What, to give him $20k? If you figure it out, can you send me the same?

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    4. Re:Don't fight the system, use it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have a problem with your remote desktops suggestion. If an organization doesn't have the resources to install proper bandwidth, good luck installing a server(s) that will run all the remote sessions fluidly - there are huge memory and storage requirements there. Still, with rdesktops you are going to put an awful load on the server to send those incremental screen updates over the LAN because of TEH YOUTUBES(tm).

  22. Ban Microsoft shares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do the employees keep checking the value of their stock or why do you want to ban MSFT shares?

    1. Re:Ban Microsoft shares? by jd · · Score: 1

      If you ban the shares, then the beancounters won't try and make you buy Microsoft products.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
  23. What about power and heat costs of disk as backup? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What does it cost to power your disks when you are not using them, Tapes cost zero. Disk farms for backup are a power and heat nightmare.

  24. There is a reason for leased lines... by juuri · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ... and if you think it is about latency you are mildly retarded, as are the writers of this general knowledge article.

    Leased lines in general have better SLAs but that isn't even much of a point anymore as they cheaper products "claim" to have similar ones. The difference here is how good is that business class dsl/fiber support at 2am? What are the odds they are actually going to be willing to send someone out to the telco closet right away if there is an issue? You buy leased lines because you need *real* support of the SLAs... not this, "well we were down for 5 hours, so how about we credit you a day off!" bullshit.

    It's really scary for what passes for "good advice" these days.

    --
    --- I do not moderate.
    1. Re:There is a reason for leased lines... by AgentPhunk · · Score: 1

      Mod parent up. The other reason, still on the SLA track, is guaranteed Quality of Service. We were an early adopter for VoIP across our 100+ MPLS sites (mostly T1s or NxT1's). No way we're running enterprise voice (and now video) over "teh Internets".

    2. Re:There is a reason for leased lines... by Glendale2x · · Score: 1

      I'll throw another one on the pile: symmetric bandwidth. The common ADSL and Cable connections sold as "business class" have a horrible upstream rate.

      --
      this is my sig
    3. Re:There is a reason for leased lines... by guruevi · · Score: 1

      Who cares when the internet is down at 2am? Nobody's there to complain. But if you're running your own datacenter, T1 is necessary. However common-access Internet for most offices is not necessarily that critical. As the article says, there is plenty of dark fiber to go around especially in the big cities which might require some upfront investment and administrating your own equipment but it will save you a lot over time.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    4. Re:There is a reason for leased lines... by spazimodo · · Score: 1

      One of my customers just had a T1 with a Tier 1 provider down for over a week. The SLA can promise whatever but when it takes a police detail, etc. to get under the street for repairs, you're on phone company time. Single points of failure are still single points of failure regardless of contractual support agreements. I deal with a fair number of MPLS circuits both domestically and internationally and for any site that's even remotely important they end up getting a secondary circuit of some sort (often a cheap Internet line to both offload Internet traffic from the WAN and to act as backup WAN connectivity via IPsec VPN.)

      For systems, several redundant, lower performance, inexpensive components are often "better" (e.g. RAID, load balanced x86 webservers, etc.) Sometimes due to various requirements you have to go with a big expensive, high performance system (for example Oracle's licensing is such that for many mid-size companies RAC isn't an option so they end up with one big expensive Sun or Linux box) Likewise with Leased lines - if you're somewhere where a leased line is the only option, or are dealing with latency sensitive traffic you have to suck it up and pay for T1/MPLS/etc. For many traffic profiles however having two lower reliability/SLA connections will provide both better performance (business cable/DSL/MetroE Internet is generally much higher bandwidth than a T1 at half or a third the price) and higher uptime. It's also nice to have a secondary connection on different media since if you're somewhere where the local loop infrastructure sucks, having two T1s from different providers may not provide as much redundancy as you think.

      For larger companies, this probably doesn't hold true (having to manage different providers gets to be a hassle with more than a handful of sites, and larger customers get better pricing and more responsive support regardless of SLA) but for small and mid-size companies I think that it's time to question the value of leased lines as dogma.

      --

      Fsck the millennium, we want it now.
      Millennium Crisis Line: 0890 900 2000 [calls cost 50p/min]
  25. A better article. by khasim · · Score: 1

    A better article would be one that identifies HOW to "know your apps" rather than just telling you that you should.

    What tools are available. How to use them. What to look for in the most common circumstances.

    1. Re:A better article. by TheLink · · Score: 1

      If the apps access stuff over the network, there's stuff like Compuware ApplicationVantage or Netscout Sniffer.

      Then you can see if an app is latency sensitive (very chatty - lots of "request-response" stuff) or bandwidth sensitive (lots of data). Sometimes the app can be tuned to behave better, sometimes you're stuck with it. For apps that use TCP, sometimes the apps are latency sensitive, have "nagling" enabled and interact badly with the tcp "delayed ack" feature. In which case one might want to turn TCP_NODELAY on, and/or have the app "ack" every thing. Stuff like that.

      That Infoworld article title reminds me of those Cosmo magazines. e.g. "10 Tips for Boosting Network Performance and keeping your boss happy", "5 ways to tell if your Server needs attention" and other "Meh" stuff... :)

      --
  26. read James Hamilton's stuff on Internet Scale DCs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&source=hp&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=site%3Amicrosoft.com+%22james+hamilton%22+%22internet+scale%22&btnG=Google+Search

    I'm in Links right now, so figuring out which links are the best is beyond this browser, but some of those ROCK.

  27. Real Tip #1 - Disable Interrupt Moderation on NICs by JakFrost · · Score: 5, Informative

    Interrupt Moderation = Disable

    Here's a real tip, disable Interrupt Moderation on your Network Adapter Cards to achieve greater bandwidth, as much as 100%+, and lower latency (the two measures of network performance) at the expense of processor utilization due to more hardware interrupts that have to be handled.

    Instructions: In Windows open up Control Panel, Network and Sharing Center, click on Change Adapter Settings, open Properties on your Local Area Connection (sometimes #2, #3, or something if you have more network cards), click on the Configure button, then the Advanced tab, select Interrupt Moderation, change the value to Disabled, while there look for any settings with the word Offload and enable them all, and then click the OK button to make the changes. This will restart your network card driver and make the settings effective.

    Most network cards from popular manufacturers such as Intel, Broadcom, Realtek, etc. hold network packets in a buffer until enough time goes by before raising a hardware interrupt and telling the processor, operating system, and network driver that there are packets waiting to be serviced. By disabling Interrupt Moderation you instruct the network driver and card to raise the interrupt every single time a packet comes in, thus making your processor service the network card much faster thus decreasing latency on the packets held in the buffer and also increasing bandwidth by allowing more packets to flow through faster. This increases your processor utilization by a significant amount 10-30% but if you have a recent dual, quad, hex, octo-core processor and recent network drivers that are multi-threaded with multi-core support and have Receive Side Scaling support then the increased processor utilization is negligible to your computer and if you are running a network server then network performance should be a priority anyway.

    I have personally seen and tested corporate and home LAN environments using Fast Ethernet 100 Mbit/s (~11 MByte/s) go from slow 6-7 MByte/s to 10-11 MByte/s throughput, and Gigabit 1,000 Mbit/s (~100 MByte/s) go from ~30 MByte/s to 95-98 MByte/s speeds due to these changes. No other network driver setting had as much performance impact as Interrupt Moderation.

    IEEE 802.1AX (aka 802.3ad, Cisco EtherChannel)

    For advanced network performance improvement look at link aggregation (channel trunking, link bonding, etc.) using the IEEE 802.1AX (aka 802.3ad, Cisco EtherChannel) protocol support in your Intel and Broadcom network adapters using their Advanced Configuration Utilities on your servers to bundle from 2-8 Ethernet network adapters into one trunk to increase your performance. Just tell your network administrators to enable those features on your ports and find out if they are able to do it if your links are going to the same switch or if they have virtual switching enabled in case your links span switches. Just think about 4 x Gigabit performance if you bundle all 4 NICs on most servers.

    NetCPS

    You can test your own network performance with this simple but great utility called NetCPS. Just be sure to disable Interrupt Moderation on both of the computers on your LAN that you will be using for the performance testing otherwise you won't be able to achieve these numbers if one of the computers can't handle the data as fast as the other one. Try it with your laptop and desktop for example.

    NetCPS - is a handy utility to measure the effective performance on a TCP/IP network.

    Just execute "netcps.exe -s" on the listening system and then do "netcps.exe computername " on the other computer to use the utility to test the throughput bandwidth. For Gigabit you can use the "-m1000" switch to increase the transferred amount to 1,000 MBytes instead of the default 100. Below is an example.

  28. to stop money down the drain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    o Uninstall un-needed software reduce traffic
    o Linux to avoid WindowsUpdate and AntiBadwareUpdates reduce traffic
    o Network settings reduce traffic (NoTimeStamp etc)
    o Firewall reduce traffic
    o Squid reduce traffic
    o Privoxy reduce traffic
    o Reduce size of files that may use the network

    = less traffic also means smaller power bills

  29. Not one useful item on the list by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Tells you go spend 1500 on 12 cores and then explain that you need spindles...

  30. I wish we could get rid of leased lines! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My office is located in what I am led to believe is the armpit of connectivity in the Seattle area. We have no options available to us besides T1s (which we have two of right now, and are getting a couple more installed soon). We're too far from the CO to get DSL (really?), no cable service (despite it being available about half a mile away), no reasonably-priced fiber (FiOS), and we tried Clearwire, which was an absolute joke. I must have called a dozen places trying to see if there was a way around any of it, but apparently not. It's really, really awful. I cannot believe it's 2010 and there is nothing besides T1s available to us. Our IT department encourages us to go home to download files > 50MB, which is a little insulting until you realize you can take about a two hour lunch under the guise of "going home to download."

  31. /dev/null serving files = Apocalypse by linzeal · · Score: 3, Informative

    When /dev/null starts giving access to all the files it has gobbled up over the years I imagine would be like the gates of hell opening. Dennis Ritchie as pestilence will ride a black horse made of swarming bits astride with other famous Unix dudes (imagine your own!). Sysadmins who have been practicing the arcane arts of administrating access to Hell's one and only 9600 BAUD BBS running Minix will rise hungry for bandwidth, porn access and hot pockets.

    1. Re:/dev/null serving files = Apocalypse by richlv · · Score: 1

      i'm not sure whether i want to ask you to elaborate on "hot pockets"

      --
      Rich
  32. Ban Powerpoint by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Banning Powerpoint usually shrinks cost by 50% over 5 years by preventing vaporware projects. If they can't present it as a flat text checklist in one page, possibly with hyperlinks, it's much harder to sell vaporware. But the policy is often hard to implement to sell due to entrenched fools idiots who've gotten used to buying and *selling* vaporware and "re-organization" plans that cost far more and waste everyone's time. I just did my best to shoot one down today. It was.... pretty awkward trying to poke holes in the excited "this will fix everyting!" presentation a manager had bought into without any actual engineers who do the work being aware of the presentation having happened, but I did my best to pull in hard experience to explain why the "re-organization" would cost far, far more than it would benefit anyone by citing the costs of the last 3 times I'd seen it tried and fail, and could give references to call.

    I'm now on that middle manager's hit list for the next round of setting people up to fire them, disguised as promotions to programs that are guaranteed to fail, but fortunately, he's not in my direct chain of command, and I can those coming a mile off. It's amazing how easy to prevent such a project such a project by tracking down the fool's former secretaries and arranging that a sexeual harassment subpoena be served 30 minutes before their presentation, especially when their former secretaries are male and have grounds to serve the subpoenas. It's even funnier when you can arrange for their presentations to fail because they didn't virus protect their laptop and you can get it blocked from the network by verifying that it's been rootkitted, 20 minutes before their presentation. And yes, I did that last year.

  33. Another winner! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Another INCREDIBLY useful article by kdawson /sarchasm

  34. Implement RFC 1925 by DaveAtFraud · · Score: 2, Funny

    RFC 1925

    Cheers,
    Dave

    --
    They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither safety nor liberty.
    Ben
  35. Dedupe bandwidth savings by Nemilar · · Score: 1

    The author mentions the disk access for deduped primary storage (he points out (rightfully so) that deduped primary storage will perform slower than non-deduped primary storage), but he failed to mention what I think is an important point when discussing deduplication and network performance/bottlenecks.

    If you dedupe your backups (the author mentions, for example, a VTL solution), you then gain the ability to replicate only the unique data to your DR site. In terms of saving bandwidth, this can be an absolutely huge savings. Imagine if you backup to a VTL, and with dedupe you get an average 25:1 ratio; that means that, for the purposes of DR, you can replicate 25x more data through your pipe than you would have been able to, without dedupe.

    --
    Nemilar http://www.techthrob.com - Visit Me!
  36. Lame. by NateTech · · Score: 1

    Rebuttals to TFA's points:

    2. See "SLA" section in number 1. If none, losing the leased lines is probably retarded. At least your boss will get a refund check the month after he fires you for choosing "alternatives".

    3. Obviously the writer has never seen the opposite, never settling down with any particular system because it's replaced every year with the "next big thing" some CEO read about in a trade rag while drunk in 1st Class doing the globetrotter thing. Or the middle-ground death by attrition where a system is touted as the "best possible solution" tons of meetings to "customize" it for every department's whim, and when it's released it's so complex it slows down productivity, while no one's measuring.*

    4. Just makes me laugh my ass off. If the boss were willing to spend $1500 on a single computer, we'd already be doing this with virtualization. We're not stupid. We're using seven or eight year old cast-off desktops from the IT department just to even HAVE a lab. You're hilarious.

    6. Bwahahaha... we MAKE apps. Really big important apps for things we do for a living. Well more than 50% of the company doesn't know how OURS work. You think we can figure out how a vendor's app works? Golden.

    (Better tactic, start with the damn thing completely firewalled and open enough just to get it working. Note any possible security issues from vendor even though you've already been told by the boss this thing's purchased and you have no choice in the matter, like... "We need TELNET turned on for this thing to work?! WTF is wrong with you people?!" Sigh, and continue to load said app that the boss says has to be loaded, note that boss is on the Board of Directors of the company that produces that software, and their CEO on yours. Realize you're out of your league, and try to figure out how to make good backups so when the thing gets the smackdown by a 14 year old in their basement, you can at least put it back online rapidly a few times in a row, overnight, while you finally have enough ammo to tell the boss the thing's insecure and the other vendor needs to fix it. Hopefully by then one or the other CEO will have been replaced, and no more golf games to discuss who will buy each-other's crap software this year.)

    7. Did you read number 4? We're running everything on some old 20 MB SCSI disks and Ultra 5's from eBay. Seriously.

    8. Again, number 4. We hit "over-virtualized" the day we loaded the virtual server. Who are you kidding?

    9. ROFLMAO... you assume that we have a SAN or data that's backed up?! Oh, you're rich, my friend. Rich.

    10. Backups. Again with the backups.

    This might get modded "Funny" if folks think it's sad enough. Or they might realize it's true...

    *"In order to open a ticket you must click the serial number field, type a 20 digit serial number, if it's not found the number will be deleted from your screen, so make sure you type it into Notepad first, after that, type the customer's last name, wait 15 seconds for all customers by that last name worldwide to pop up (can't select company name first), re-query using customers last and first name (not an option on the main screen), find one of six instances of the same customer (other people got lazy and just typed them in), pick the most accurate one, now back to the main screen to type in the company name, pick one of the ten of those, or if you like, one of their divisions that was put in with the full business name, all with different account numbers, now click "check entitlement" and see if they have a service contract."

    See any possible problems with that? Okay now do it in 1 minute or less so the guy on the phone doesn't get pissed that you're putting him through the gauntlet (because you talk to him regularly, and already know his personal information), and stay nice and friendly and chit chat while you're doing it. Yes, I just described the REAL system I work with daily. It cost $2 million to deploy. Based on Siebel, which was a nice system when it was a desktop app, but is a god-awful web interface that "saves deployment time and money". Awesome ain't it?

    Such fun reading this BS from writers who've never done any of it anyplace with a real budget. BOFH is closer to reality.

    --
    +++OK ATH
    1. Re:Lame. by ender- · · Score: 1

      Man, you seriously need to find a better job.

      No, no place is perfect, but even the little 6 employee firm I used to work for had a better IT infrastructure than you're describing.

      #6 - He's not talking about learning every line of code for the app. He's just talking about looking at the app running [monitoring] and knowing if the app is CPU, RAM or IO bound. So that when you DO have some budget [hey they spent $2mil on Siebel, they've got SOME sort of budget], you know if that money needs to go towards CPU, RAM or spindles.

      And just because the advice doesn't apply to the crap-hole job you seem to be stuck in, doesn't mean it's BS for the rest of the world...

      It may be moderately simple, basic advice. But nothing there is BS.

    2. Re:Lame. by tuomoks · · Score: 1

      NateTech, I loved your "In order to open a ticket you must click ..." and actually you make other good points too - not applicable everywhere but in too many places. About the story - in early 70's I used to work in an insurance company and some new, young, just out of university hired "user interface guru" made a system like that as a PM for a development group! It was hilarious - we never understood why his manager did go with it - and we waited the day to go for production! We were right, 2000+ our office people walked out in first hour! A huge fight but they won - they were paid by how many insurances, new and / or claims, they handled and this dropped their productivity to 1/4th! Also, of course, the whole corporation was slowed down about to the same! It got fixed very fast, kind of, the stupid thing had hundreds of screens - I and two of my colleges changed the whole interaction in two weeks. Only possible because the backend didn't have to change - we had taken care of that earlier, not just told anyone before. Still don't understand the corporations to do these kind of bad mistakes today but, as often said, they work mysterious ways!

    3. Re:Lame. by NateTech · · Score: 1

      Never said it was BS. Just funny.

      The "craphole" isn't so bad, they just won't spend money on labs or servers for our group. Other departments seem to be doing just fine with piles of hardware.

      Basically we make money, someone else spends it. Normal way of the world.

      --
      +++OK ATH
    4. Re:Lame. by NateTech · · Score: 1

      Luckily, I'm paid by the hour! :-) Any negative productivity only hurts until the overtime kicks in. LOL!

      --
      +++OK ATH
  37. Always, 40+ years amazed me by tuomoks · · Score: 1

    Tip #6 is the key but why not to design your applications and infrastructure for performance instead of "knowing" it? It's correct that infrastructure performance monitoring only gets so far - why even let it to go there? It's always less expensive to design upfront than trying to tune it later. Of course, if you or you company has already made bad decisions, it is more difficult but late is better than never. Trying to fix performance problems with vendor / manufacturer magical tools and toys is always doomed to failure even if it in short term it may look like "a miracle"!

    Yes, especially tips #9 and #10, dedupe and fast backups are useful but doesn't everyone do that? For example dedube in nothing new - a long, long time ago the big systems only saved the changed information, be it backups or transaction logs - fast restores, less and faster to backup, etc!

    #1 and maybe others can come later - if you are not yet desperate! #1, faster communications, etc is actually kind of worse - you give performance and often the effort is stopped there until next crises, usually twice or more worse! That's just normal corporate thinking!

  38. Re:Real Tip #1 - Disable Interrupt Moderation on N by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I read your comment and it's pretty damn useless as well, all of our servers run Linux. I've never heard of "interrupt moderation", but it does support ethernet bonding.

  39. maybe not by AliasMarlowe · · Score: 1

    If you ban CIFS and NFS, what's left? Sneakernet has great bandwidth, but the latency sucks and it's a bitch to search.

    SSHFS :)

    Not if there is any possibility that two users will write to the same directory (or file) at the same time. The underlying sftp will probably make a little mess if that happens...

    --
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
  40. Re:Real Tip #1 - Disable Interrupt Moderation on N by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    insmod e1000.ko InterruptThrottleRate=1 (Mode 1)
      insmod e1000.ko InterruptThrottleRate=0 (ITR off)
      insmod e1000.ko InterruptThrottleRate=8000 (Fixed value for all I/O patterns)

    Page 17
    http://download.intel.com/design/network/applnots/ap450.pdf

  41. Re:Real Tip #1 - Disable Interrupt Moderation on N by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Nice informative post, interrupt moderation sure sounds interesting. Link aggregation, however, is not as useful as it sounds for the following reasons:

    1. Hardware link aggregation (link aggregation supported in silicon) works by hashing, not by distributing packets evenly across all links that are aggregated. If you can spare some time to ponder about this for a moment, you will be able to see why hashing is used. In real life situations, 4 x 1Gbps links aggregated together never equals 4Gbps throughput.

    2. If link aggregation is handled by the software (which is most likely the case if aggregating multiple NICs on a server) then all it really provides is redundancy. It is very difficult for an average server to process 1Gbps of incoming traffic, let alone generate 1Gbps of worths of traffic. Not to mention the read/write speed of the storage device(s) used in the server.

    (Unless it's using PCIE SSDs in RAID configuration, which would be very interesting and I am dying to find out the throughput of such a configuration!)

    For once I actually know what I am talking about, so maybe I should have created an account before posting this one.

  42. Re:Real Tip #1 - Disable Interrupt Moderation on N by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Brilliant, that'll be useful on our servers with Intel GbE NICs =]

  43. 1 simple tip by SystematicPsycho · · Score: 1

    Stop downloading pr0n.

    --
    Analytic & algebraic topology of locally Euclidean meterization of infinitely differentiable Riemmanian manifold
  44. Snail bottlenck fixed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://idle.slashdot.org/story/10/06/01/1324220/Snails-On-Methamphetamine

  45. Tip #9 Data Deduplication one-sided by werld · · Score: 1

    Whomever wrote this article only mentioned back-end data de-dup. Avamar (EMC) is client side data de-dup, hence lowering network traffic for backups and spreading the work load to the clients during backup windows.