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FTC Staff Discuss a Tax on Electronics To Support the News Business

dptalia links to this piece describing a staff discussion draft from the Federal Trade Commission, writing "The FTC is concerned about the death of the 'news.' Specifically newspapers. Rather than look to how old media models can be adapted to the Internet, they instead suggest taxing consumer electronics to support a huge newspaper bailout. Additionally, they suggest making facts 'proprietary' and allowing news organizations to copyright them." Note, though, "The good news in all this is that the FTC's bureaucrats try hard to recommend little. They just discuss. And much of what the agency staff ponders are political impossibilities."

34 of 381 comments (clear)

  1. Start laughing now... by CTalkobt · · Score: 5, Interesting
    If this does pass I think it would be quickly repealed over the loud howling noises as people realize it passes.

    This would essentially put the government in charge of choosing which press agencies to sponser... Dangerous precedent...

    --
    There's a gorilla from Manilla whose a fella that stinks of vanilla and has salmonella.
    1. Re:Start laughing now... by SleazyRidr · · Score: 4, Informative

      RTFS

      That's the other part of this proposal: that news agencies will be able to copyright the facts they report on so the blogs et al can't just take them and 'comment' on them to get their content.

    2. Re:Start laughing now... by Shikaku · · Score: 3, Funny

      That's dangerous and ridiculous to be able to copyright facts.

      People have 4 fingers and 1 thumb on each hand.

      Now nobody can report that anywhere! MWAHAHAHAHA.

    3. Re:Start laughing now... by Qwavel · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yes, laughing at this proposal is appropriate, but there is a real problem.

      Unfortunately, I think that I am the problem.

      In spite of the fact that I understand and value the role that newspaper play, particularly in investigative journalism, I continue to increase the amount of news that I get online.

      I often visit the sites of the same newspapers that I have always trusted, but I know that the revenue they get from my online presense is much less then they got from the subscription that I have now cancelled (and its associated advertising revenue). Once they get good enough, I'll get a pad or a tablet and stop reading from paper completely.

      As well, I'm slipping into reading articles from scattered sites, probably because those scattered sites pander to my particular view of the world and don't have to uphold the journalistic standards that the newspaper did.

      To top it off, I don't believe in bail-outs, which usually don't work and are typically politically motivated anyway.

      So, I'm not sure what the solution is, but I know that there is a problem. Not much help am I.

    4. Re:Start laughing now... by kimvette · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This kind of bullshit is exactly why America needs to wake up and vote for people who are truly conservative. I do not mean "neocon" type conservatives who consider the Constitution an inconvenience, and certainly not "liberals" (as in the moonbat type) who consider it to be toilet paper, and I don't mean outright libertarians either; I mean people who actually read and understand the Constitution and who are grounded in common sense, and don't intend to legislate morality, prop up big business with pork legislation, not tell us what we can and can't eat, not legislating marriage (and in fact take marriage AWAY from government since interference in marriage is restricting freedom of worship as marriage is a religious construct), and certainly not tell us what we HAVE to buy (see: Obamascare, which is based on Massachusetts' failed RomneyCare), and not those who rack up insurmountable piles of deficit spending.

      Vote for people who want to preserve and protect the Constitution, that way the public good will truly be preserved for the generations to follow us. We need to stop voting based on who will protect or punish big business, but for those who consider the long term ramifications of such legislation. Vote for those who don't push for extended government micromanagement of our lives.

      We have only ourselves to think by turning it into a Red vs. Blue debate and allowing, no, demanding that government enforce those "values." Take back the country by voting for constitutionalists (regardless of party affiliation) and don't try to legislate what other people do. Want to affect change? LIVE the example; don't try to legislate it.

      Otherwise, the result will be exactly this kind of unconstitutional copyrighting of facts bullshit, and the perpetual "mickey mouse" and "sony bono" copyright laws. It really is a s;ippery slope because people see an opportunity to become a career politician than a true leader. The making of a good leader is a good servant. Constitutionally, our elected leaders report to us. In practice, politicians see it the other way and we need to send a very clear message to these stupid fucks in office that WE are in control and THEY are in place to SERVE.

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    5. Re:Start laughing now... by Machtyn · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Wow... a double whammy to free speech. News controlled by the government and news that can't be commented on. Granted, right now, most news outlets allow themselves to be controlled by the current administration, but they are slowly turning on the ineptitude.

  2. Let them Die by airwedge1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why are we always so concerned with keeping companies in business. We didn't try to artificially keep wagon wheel business alive when cars were invented. This is absurd, if a company can no longer sell something, sell something else, or die off.

    1. Re:Let them Die by oodaloop · · Score: 5, Funny

      What are you, some kind of capitalist?

      --
      Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
    2. Re:Let them Die by Karganeth · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It really has nothing to do with capitalism. Even in communism they would remove companies and technologies that are obsolete. It's just stupid to think that newspapers have a right to exist and make a profit.

    3. Re:Let them Die by jgagnon · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Unfortunately, this sort of thing is all out of proportion because of the state of the economy and the number of unemployed people already out there. In better times, much of this would be ignored.

      --
      Remember to maintain your supply of /facepalm oil to prevent chafing.
    4. Re:Let them Die by schon · · Score: 4, Interesting

      We didn't try to artificially keep wagon wheel business alive when cars were invented.

      Yes you did.

    5. Re:Let them Die by Midnight's+Shadow · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Why are we always so concerned with keeping companies in business. We didn't try to artificially keep wagon wheel business alive when cars were invented. This is absurd, if a company can no longer sell something, sell something else, or die off.

      While normally I agree with the idea of making businesses survive and fail on their own I'm a bit more hesitant to agree to letting the news industry fail. I wouldn't want to get all my information from blogs, word of mouth or press releases from the government. Remember most of the stories posted here are from a news source of some sort or another. If the news agencies failed It would leave a huge information vacuum that the government could fill as it wished. And lets not even think about the quality of the news when it is all done by people without editors or others to put the breaks on unsupported stories. At least right now we can get a view of the truth by reading the extremes and taking the average. The US (and other civilized countries) are better of with the news agencies then without them. As for newspapers, if you can read you have access to them which gives them an advantage over electronic media.

      --
      "God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh. " -Voltaire
    6. Re:Let them Die by Shakrai · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If the news agencies failed It would leave a huge information vacuum that the government could fill as it wished.

      And you don't think those same news agencies will be beholden to the government when the government is the one keeping them in business?

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    7. Re:Let them Die by Em+Emalb · · Score: 4, Informative

      LOL! If this is true, Wow!

      "In the United States, the state of Vermont passed a similar flurry of Red Flag Laws in 1894. The most infamous of the Red Flag Laws was enacted in Pennsylvania circa 1896, when Quaker legislators unanimously passed a bill through both houses of the state legislature, which would require all motorists piloting their "horseless carriages", upon chance encounters with cattle or livestock to (1) immediately stop the vehicle, (2) "immediately and as rapidly as possible... disassemble the automobile," and (3) "conceal the various components out of sight, behind nearby bushes" until equestrian or livestock is sufficiently pacified.[1] The bill did not pass, as Pennsylvania's governor used an executive veto.

      Dear Lord, let's pacify the livestock by disassembling the car. It's a shame that retarded politics was around even back then...the more things change...the well, you know the rest.

      --
      Sent from your iPad.
    8. Re:Let them Die by elrous0 · · Score: 5, Funny

      I just got a mental image of a horse looking over at his fellow horse and saying "They took yer job!"

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
  3. I don't see anything wrong with this by Pojut · · Score: 3, Funny

    Go ahead, "copyright" your investigated information. Good luck suing the hundreds of thousands of blogs and websites that will still link to your info. And besides, if they provide a link to the news company's website as a way to cite a source (just like I do with my own webpage when I post about content I have read elsewhere), what's the problem? You still get credit, you still get the traffic.

    1. Re:I don't see anything wrong with this by garcia · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Go ahead, "copyright" your investigated information.

      Oh fuck them and their investigated information. Asshole journalists steal the research done by bloggers, like myself, all the fucking time. While bloggers happily link to the information they are using for their work, journalists never do and cite how it's just not done in their industry.

      While I am happy to research, request, and even sometimes pay to make data public which may not have been before, I do expect that the journos will cite that work I did when they use my materials when they write their stories--just like I do for them. Using other people's work without citation is called plagiarism anywhere else in the world and I really and honestly believe that the entire journalism field needs to go back to college and learn how to do their jobs again. Perhaps at that point the industry will turn around for them.

  4. Bail Me Out Please by whisper_jeff · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I am utterly blown away at hoe often the government is willing to step in and save failing business models. Car companies refusing to evolve, media companies failing to evolve, and more. Last time I checked, we live in a capitalist society where companies that succeed, in one way or another, are rewarded and companies that fail, for whatever reason, are supposed to go out of business. I can understand and be empathetic towards companies that have their business destroyed because of the actions of another, such as fishermen having their livelihoods wiped out because of BP's oil leak. Those businesses deserve some intervention to help them get through the rough time that is no fault of their own. Companies that fail to innovate, however, and end up watching their balance sheets shift more and more downwards? Nah. Sorry. You tried and failed. You don't have a right to be in business, just because. You have to work hard and succeed, just like the rest of us.

    Failing businesses should be allowed to fail. Someone will figure out a successful business model and will fill the void or a market that no longer needs to exist (hello buggy whips) will fade into the history books.

  5. Ayn Rand was right. by d3ac0n · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's frightening just how much modern American government has become like the nightmare Statist government in Ayn Rand's novels, constantly meddling with and attempting to control market forces that it and it's members are incapable of understanding or wanting to understand.

    Regardless of what you may think of her personally, she was prescient.

    --
    Official Heretic from the "Church of Global Warming". Proven right thanks to whistle blowers. AGW = Flat Earth Theory
    1. Re:Ayn Rand was right. by IndustrialComplex · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It's frightening just how much modern American government has become like the nightmare Statist government in Ayn Rand's novels, constantly meddling with and attempting to control market forces that it and it's members are incapable of understanding or wanting to understand.

      Regardless of what you may think of her personally, she was prescient.

      Far too many people are willing to ignore good advice when they don't like the messenger, or the people associated with the advice. There is also another reason people ignore good advice that scares me even more. It's when the advice is ignored because they cannot accept the implications of what that would mean.

      I guess the latter reason also scares me because I often find myself making the same mistake. It's easy and comforting.

      As with Ayn Rand, it's like any other book, it takes an effort to distill the insightful portions from the author's other opinions.

      --
      Out of modpoints but really liked a post? 1BDkF6TtmmeZ3yqXbz9yhdYVqRYnwFoXDj
  6. Stop. Just... stop. by aztektum · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Dear Washington,

    You're doing it wrong.

    Thanks,
    Everyone

    Seriously what the hell? Stop giving our money to greedy corporations. Want us to buy a house? Spend more on crap? Buy new cars? HOW CAN WE DO THAT WHEN YOU KEEP TAKING OUR $?

    OH wait. You'll just take it and give it to corps for free.

    Now, I am not a tax hater. I am fine with taxes for things like emergency services, libraries, roads, schools. The difference is those services provide for the public good. Forcing me to hand money over to your buddies at the "too big to fails" is bullshit. You crooked fucks.

    --
    :: aztek ::
    No sig for you!!
  7. But will they also bail out the typewriter makers? by Michael_gr · · Score: 5, Funny

    I mean, it's like totally unfair that PC manufacturers pulled the rug from under the typewriter business. I propose a tax on... let's see... yes! deodorants! and, uhhm, pipe wrenches! to save the typewriter business. And the monk scribes that used to copy books before that horrid man Gutenberg took their jobs away, they deserve some recompense. Let's tax... exotic pets.

  8. Wouldn't be the first time... by nebaz · · Score: 4, Informative

    Newspapers were subsidized by the Federal government until about 1840 or so, due to the founder's desire to make sure there were plenty of options for people to be well informed.
    Link here.

    --
    Rhymes that keep their secrets will unfold behind the clouds.There upon the rainbow is the answer to a neverending story
  9. Want to save the news business? by blair1q · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Put a tax on lying.

  10. Re:No bailout for newspapers by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 3, Informative

    The automakers, yea they should have bailed them out, the got screwed because the banks screwed with their borrowing money.

    The banks, well too big to fail is just full of fail.

    No, the automakers are kind of strategic assets and the domino effect from their failure would have pushed the US and the industrialized world into a depression.

  11. Libertarian alert! by openfrog · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's frightening just how much modern American government has become like the nightmare Statist government in Ayn Rand's novels, constantly meddling with and attempting to control market forces that it and it's members are incapable of understanding or wanting to understand.

    Regardless of what you may think of her personally, she was prescient.

    Regardless of the merit of this case, don't you think it's just a bit early to come with this magic market libertarian stuff as we are still in the midst of a major financial crisis caused by massive deregulation?

    I am not bothered by the fact that you exist; I am seriously concerned, however, that there was one person to mod you insightful...

    1. Re:Libertarian alert! by Shakrai · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Regardless of the merit of this case, don't you think it's just a bit early to come with this magic market libertarian stuff as we are still in the midst of a major financial crisis caused by massive deregulation?

      Has it occurred to you that government interventions in the marketplace helped to create the imbalances that contributed to the financial crisis? Government keeps interest rates artificially low, thus negating any real incentive to save, then wonders why we have high debt and low savings rate. Government favors large corporations at the expense of small ones and then wonders why large players dominate the financial/telecommunications/medical/etc industries.

      Ever heard of regulatory capture? Ever wonder why established business lobbies in favor of regulations that make it harder for upstarts to enter the market?

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
  12. Re:No bailout for newspapers by Shakrai · · Score: 3, Insightful

    No, the automakers are kind of strategic assets

    No, their plant and equipment are strategic assets. That equipment wouldn't have vanished if GM went out of business. It would have been bought up by more nimble competitors during the Chapter 7 proceedings.

    --
    I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
    We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
  13. Rumours of death of news greatly exaggerated . by flink · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Newspapers aren't, for the most part, loosing money. They're becoming less profitable. Historically, newspapers have enjoyed fantastically high profit margins. Due to a falloff in revenue from shrinking circulation and less interest in print classifieds, those margins have shrunk to being merely moderate.

    Back in the days when newspapers were run by private companies or wealthy families most papers probably could have weathered these leaner times, these days most major papers are held by big public media companies. These companies can't tolerate a drop in profits, so they are firing reporters and closing beuros in order to maintain those margins.

  14. Re:No bailout for newspapers by Shakrai · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What do you mean, "without someone to sell to"? Do you think the demand for automobiles would have disappeared just because GM went under? Ford, Toyota, Honda, etc. would have had to expand their capacity to meet increased demand. The easiest way for them to do that would have been to start purchasing parts from GM's now idled suppliers. There was no reason to bail them out other than as a gift to labor. Look at the way the administration abused the bankruptcy code. The bankruptcy code said that the bondholders were secured creditors and should have been repaid first -- but they got screwed while the unions got most of what they asked for.

    Beware the Government that can't even be bothered to follow it's own laws.

    --
    I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
    We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
  15. Just make the News public domain. by thisissilly · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I would much rather see America turn to public funding for public domain news, instead of trying to let businesses copyright facts. One of the best news organizations in the world is funding by a TV license fee.

  16. Are they actually proposing anything? by twoallbeefpatties · · Score: 4, Informative

    Here's one clip from the first proposal:

    Some stakeholders have proposed amending the Copyright Act to specifically recognize hot news protection. Advocates argue "the copyright act allows parasitic aggregators to 'free ride' on others' substantial journalistic investments," by protecting only expression and not the underlying facts, which are often gathered at great expense...

    Hot news advocates are divided, however, on whether federal law should be revised to encourage state law development of hot news doctrine or to provide uniform, statutory federal hot news protection... The likely effects of a more vigorous hot news doctrine are controversial. For example, on eworkshop participant noted that New York's hot news doctrine was important to the AP's efforts to protect its intellectual property, but recognized that any "federalization" of the doctrine would need to be very carefully drafted to avoid unintended costs... Others also have argued that expanded IP protections for the news would be too costly. News organizations and writers, including print, broadcast, op-ed writers, and other commentators, routinely borrow from each other. One panelist suggested that "[m]uch of what is done by newspapers with each other is actually problematic under existing hot news doctrine."


    The paper does include a number of possible direct revenue sources from the government as possibilities, such as tax breaks or increasing punding of the Corporation for Public Broadcasting. However, it also includes the following:

    Representative Waxman noted in remarks to the FTC workshop on December 2, 2009, that those advocating for public funding "need to articulate the scope of such support, in terms of the activities to be supported and the dollars required. They need to respond to the concern that government support of journalism would lead to government control of content. And they need to explain the source of revenues."

    Most of the paper goes on like this, presenting different sides of each proposal. Which is to say that unlike what the commentator in the OP states, this isn't so much the FTC dictating that the government deliberately save the news industry in any one particular way, but is more a roundtable discussion about different ways that it might occur. If you disagree with what's discussed, you might want to leave your Congressman a call.

    --
    Libertarians somehow believe that private businesses should be stronger than governments but weaker than individuals.
  17. Re:No bailout for newspapers by Shakrai · · Score: 3, Insightful

    From the millions of people that would have otherwise bought GM automobiles? You can't have such a bad understanding of economics as to believe that GM's demand comes entirely from employees of GM and GM suppliers.

    --
    I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
    We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
  18. Re:GM by Grishnakh · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Wrong.

    GM deserved to die because it was mismanaged for decades. Their products have been crap for a long time, they haven't made a decent car in decades, and it shows in the sales figures. The only reason they were profitable before was because of the SUV craze. However, GM pissed away this opportunity, and instead of using the temporary windfall from the sale of highly profitable SUVs to build a "rainy day" fund or otherwise make the company strong for the next recession, they were completely caught with their pants down when gas prices rose and then again when the recession hit, killing the SUV craze suddenly. With no more cash cow to abuse, GM had no more money left.

    Ford, OTOH, managed to manage their company well enough that they avoided this fate, even though they were profiting off the SUVs alongside GM, and had all the same issues with union work and costs.

    So, in the end, instead of Ford being rewarded for their superior business acumen, they got to watch stupid, mismanaged GM get an unearned bailout.

    GM should have been allowed to die. It could have been split up and sold off to Ford, Honda, Toyota, and the other automakers. That "vast system of suppliers" should have been able to hang on until then, as they would have been needed to supply these other companies who would now be selling more cars. Any company that can't handle a temporary disruption to their sales has no business staying in business.