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California Judge Routes Campaign Robocalls Through Colorado

Thomas Hawk writes "Victoria Kolakowski, a current sitting law judge at the California PUC, is running for Alameda Superior Court judge in California. As part of her campaign she is robodialing people in California with a pre-recorded message. The only problem is that in Califorina robodials are actually illegal unless first introduced by a non-recorded natural person who gains consent to play the call. Ironically, the agency set up to protect our privacy and enforce this law, the California PUC, is the very agency where Kolakowski works today. Kolakowski originally apologized for the calls but then later deleted messages on her Facebook account from people objecting to her use of these calls. Now Kolakowski is trying to argue that because 'technically' she is routing her calls through Colorado from outside the state that her robodials are actually legal."

47 of 191 comments (clear)

  1. go figure. by Sir_Lewk · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Politician thinks the rules only apply to other people. News at 11.

    --
    "linux is just DOS with a UNIX like syntax" -- Galactic Dominator (944134)
    1. Re:go figure. by DigiShaman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Oh ya, without question. This level of hypocrisy is as old as civilization itself. My only question is this. Just how much more of this BS are people willing to take. People, cities, states, nations. You would think there would be an eventual breaking point, yes? It couldn't come sooner to spank these bastards out of office!

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    2. Re:go figure. by msobkow · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Call centers are our main customers at my current job. You wouldn't believe how creative people get, trying to bypass the laws that restrict use of certain dialing technologies (robo-dialers, predictive dialers, progressive dialers, etc.) As a software provider we have to implement options that support those legal restrictions, but a huge number of clients want to know how to disable those features because they've come up with a creative reason why the law doesn't apply to them. We advise them not to do it, but in the end, it's the call center that's in control.

      --
      I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    3. Re:go figure. by BattleApple · · Score: 5, Informative

      The use of such a device by any person, either individually or acting as an officer, agent, or employee of a person or corporation operating automatic dialing-announcing devices, is subject to this article.

      http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=85394713794+1+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve

      2872(d) lists exemptions.. I don't see anything regarding political messages

    4. Re:go figure. by Have+Brain+Will+Rent · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Her later actions make it appear she is unable to admit when she has made an error. Just the kind of person you don't want sitting on the bench.

      --
      The tyrant will always find a pretext for his tyranny - Aesop
    5. Re:go figure. by green1 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Politician thinks the rules only apply to other people. News at 11.

      Where I live, they're right. All telemarketing and Robo-calling laws in Canada have specific exceptions for political campaigns...

      Of course as soon as I get one from a candidate I immediately remove them from my list of parties to vote for in that election...

    6. Re:go figure. by Thomas+Hawk · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I was the one that Kolakowski robodialed. I am not an "established business associate, customer, or other person having an established relationship with" her, therefore this exception would not apply to her. If you want to try and argue that the same political party would constitute an "established" relationship (which is a total stretch) then in order to be of my same party, Kolakowski would have to be a registered Libertarian like I am. I doubt she is. But here again, if political party affiliation was enough, then couldn't someone who was a Democrat simply robodial all of the Democrats in California with an unsavory auto warranty scam phone call? As I read this law there is no wiggle room at all. She is breaking the law and she should admit it, apologize and pledge not to use robodialers in the state of California in the future. If she'd like to use them then she needs to work to change the laws in the State to allow them, rather then simply ignore a law that she doesn't like or that is inconvenient for her. But even if she can find some wiggle room or some minor technicality to skate by the intent of this law, certainly the ethical thing for a candidate for judge to do would be to abide by the spirit of the law which is to stop these annoying and harassing cals in the State of California.

    7. Re:go figure. by faedle · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Interesting.

      Isn't the stance of the Libertarian party that such laws are a violation of people's freedom of speech and "robocalls" should be legal?

    8. Re:go figure. by realityimpaired · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You're too generous. I remove them from my list of parties to vote for ever again.... Mr. Harper and his cronies have been the only ones stupid enough to try it, though....

      here's a clue, politicos: if my vote is worth courting, then it's worth having a human do it. it's patently insulting that you think it's ok to have a computer dial my phone number. more than that: it's illegal. I only have one phone number, and it's a cellular phone. exemptions for political and charity organizations don't include cellular phones.

    9. Re:go figure. by Imrik · · Score: 2, Informative

      Just make sure the call is from the candidate they're advocating and not their opponent. I don't know about Canadian law but US political campaign calls are required to state who sponsored it. Unfortunately that notice is at the very end meaning you have to listen to the whole thing.

    10. Re:go figure. by Thomas+Hawk · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I have no idea how the Libertarian party feels about robo calls. But me personally, I hate them. The Libertarian party best represents most of my major politica views though.

    11. Re:go figure. by bigstrat2003 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'm guessing (based upon general libertarian principles, not knowledge of the Libertarian party's stance) that they would be opposed to a blanket ban on robocalls on the grounds you state. I would also guess that they would very much support the do-not-call list applying to all unsolicited calls (correct me if I'm wrong, but right now political calling is exempt), as people should have the right to be free of harassment if they choose.

      So I would guess that technically you're right that they think such calls should be legal, but in practice their ideal rules would make them illegal anyway, just via different means.

      --
      "16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
    12. Re:go figure. by micheas · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The established relationship is voter, candidate.

      That would be like saying that a spammer/customer relationship is satisfied by the fact that the spammer was selling toilet paper and the recipient was a user of toilet paper.

      As a vendor of toilet paper, I may be free to spam my existing customer base, but I'm not free to spam yours (or any other potential customers that aren't already engaging me an existing and ongoing relationship).

      With that in mind, even if we could assume that just by the fact that a voter voting for her automatically satisfies the requisite relationship criteria, there is still no way for her to know who voted for her and who voted for another candidate.

      The judge is going to be hired or not hired based in part on Thomas Hawks vote.

      If someone has the ability to fire you, you have a relationship with them.

      Unfortunately for the judge, this was like someone calling when the application page says do not call about this job.

      You can do it, you are not going to get hired.

    13. Re:go figure. by mcgrew · · Score: 4, Insightful

      She is breaking the law and she should admit it, apologize and pledge not to use robodialers in the state of California in the future.

      No, she shoud be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. I don't get out of a traffic ticket by apologizing and promising not to do it again. And the people of your state should vote this person out of office. Judges and police officers should be held to a stricter standard than civilians.

    14. Re:go figure. by superdave80 · · Score: 2, Funny

      You think the robocaller will get offend if we revoke its freedom of speech?

  2. Vote by Local+ID10T · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Well, now we know who not to vote for...

    --
    "You want to know how to help your kids? Leave them the fuck alone." -George Carlin
    1. Re:Vote by noidentity · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Unfortunately, when we rule out all the scumbags and lowlifes, we are left with nobody worth voting for. Oh well

    2. Re:Vote by michaelhood · · Score: 2, Funny

      Oh well <flips coun>

      Poor coun. :(

    3. Re:Vote by berzerke · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.- E. Debs

    4. Re:Vote by selven · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Hey, there's lots of reasonable, honest candidates out there, and you could be among the 927 people voting for one in the next election!

  3. Why!? by 91degrees · · Score: 5, Insightful

    How stupid is she?

    Honestly, It's not so much about the legality of it. It's the negative publicity. These things are illegal because people find them really really irritating. If you're trying to hawk holidays or something then you probably haven't heard of the company in the first place, so even if you go with someone else they haven't lost anything but for a candidate in an election, a vote for the another party is another vote they have to make up for elsewhere.

    1. Re:Why!? by v1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Another example of who NOT to vote for. Hello I'm running for office and support using loopholes to get around the intended restrictions our current laws are trying to enforce. Oh and I'm running to be a judge too.

      --
      I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
    2. Re:Why!? by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Another example of who NOT to vote for. Hello I'm running for office and support using loopholes to get around the intended restrictions our current laws are trying to enforce. Oh and I'm running to be a judge too.

      It's really no surprise.
      Finding loopholes to circumvent the intent of the law is practically the definition of a lawyer.
      Most judges are former lawyers.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    3. Re:Why!? by v1 · · Score: 3, Funny

      I thought judges were rehabilitated lawyers?

      --
      I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
  4. Re:Hooray for rationalizations! by meerling · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So are you saying that if the person who fires the gun in is in a different state than Victoria Kolakowski, it's not illegal?

  5. I guess by DaMattster · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Pfffffttt, Judges are above the law. I hate that!

  6. Let the Kolakowski campaign know how you feel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If you're not in California, start your robodialers!

    Contact:

    Kolakowski for Judge 2010 (FPPC No. 1324175)

    285 Hanover Avenue, #1

    Oakland, California 94606-1260

    (510) 465-2988

    1. Re:Let the Kolakowski campaign know how you feel by AnonymousClown · · Score: 2, Insightful
      As a revenge fantasy (I'm afraid that I'd get in trouble because I'm not a big shot businessman or politician), I thought of writing a Python script that would use the modem and call and leave a message.

      The logic would be:

      1. Wait for dial tone.
      2. Dial.
      3. Wait so many seconds for answering machine
      4. Play wave file. - repeatedly until hang up.
      5. Go to 1.

      And just let it run.

      --
      RIP America

      July 4, 1776 - September 11, 2001

    2. Re:Let the Kolakowski campaign know how you feel by michaelhood · · Score: 2, Informative
  7. Elected judges = bad idea by OnePumpChump · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That's the source of zero tolerance for (not really a problem) and tough on (convenient scapegoat). You also get judges becoming corrupt and unethical in ways that would otherwise only apply to legislators and executives. Like this.

  8. if you ever want to be a politician by circletimessquare · · Score: 2, Insightful

    you first need the character attribute of massively blind hypocrisy

    this applies to the right, and the left

    "do as i say, not as i do" must be your highest credo

    then you are a guaranteed success

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
  9. Re:Hooray for rationalizations! by MightyMartian · · Score: 4, Funny

    They'd get you on Interstate commerce laws. You were part of a conspiracy to transport the bullet across state lines.

    --
    The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  10. FTFY by copponex · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Person thinks the rules only apply to other people. News at 11.

    Hypocrisy isn't restricted to politics. It's just easier to see in people other than yourself.

    1. Re:FTFY by obarthelemy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Indeed, but seeing a politician break the law is like seeing a doctor smoke, a priest rape a kid, my parents doing it, a cop assaulting someone... it just hurts more.

      --
      The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
    2. Re:FTFY by knarf · · Score: 4, Insightful

      a priest rape a kid, my parents doing it, a cop assaulting someone

      Something is not right with our society's morals... This line should be part of a psychological test, 'which of these does not belong'.

      Did your parents truly commit a crime in conceiving you? I can understand that you do not relish the prospect of observing them in the act but to compare it to the actions of the pope's minions or police violence is a bit overboard.

      --
      --frank[at]unternet.org
  11. AZ judicial nominating commissions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Here in AZ, one thing they got right was to appoint judges, which cuts out most of this type of campaigning crap. The list of appointees from which the governor chooses is drawn up by the judicial nominating commission, a bipartisan body that consists of lawyers AND nonlawyers. This allows a consensus to be reached as to who is at least _competent_ enough to be appointed. After 2 years of serving on the bench, judges face a retention election, and every 6 years thereafter they are up for another retention election. Usually, the only time the retention elections receive much public attention is when a judge has gone off the deep end in some respect and faces being dumped by the voters. IANAL, but many law professionals around the country hold the AZ judicial appointment process in very high regard, as it produces quality appointments without most of the partisan garbage present in judicial elections.

  12. Disbar that spamming bitch. by jcr · · Score: 4, Interesting

    We do not need weasels on the bench, or acting as officers of the court in any capacity. This woman is a disgrace to her profession.

    -jcr

    --
    The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
  13. I'm in California by MyFirstNameIsPaul · · Score: 4, Informative

    For the last week or two I've frequently received three robocalls a day. I'd say this law's effectiveness is on par with the hands-free laws.

    --

    I once took an excursion to Reddit, and later HN. Unlimited up/down voting sucks when dealing with a hive-mind.

  14. Why annoy those who you want to vote for you? by QuietLagoon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I am still trying to understand why anyone seems to think that annoying people with robocalls is the way to garner support from those people.

  15. Wipe em off the fucking ballot already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If they can't even obey the rules of the campaigns, then revoke their right to even run!

    Oath breakers SUCK

  16. Elected judged by quacking+duck · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Judges and law enforcement officials in Canada aren't elected. They're appointed by our elected officials, and I'm more than happy they're focused on their actual jobs and not wasting months every few years shilling for votes based on overblown high profile cases.

    Judges cannot be counted on to do there jobs properly if they're worried a controversial decision which upholds the current laws, but is hugely unpopular with the voting public, will cost them their job.
         

    1. Re:Elected judged by sycorob · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Do you guys not have issues with judges/sheriffs/etc being the buddies of the elected officials? The supposed advantage of having these officials elected is that you can boot them if they're not doing their job.

      John "Heckuva job" Brown was appointed by Bush, and that didn't work out great.

    2. Re:Elected judged by quacking+duck · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I believe you mean Michael Brown, and he was removed from his post far faster than if he had been elected to it.

      While appointments can be abused (there is a debate over our unelected senate, which is a room full of patronage appointments from whichever party's in power when a position is filled), my take is that those positions should not be elected posts because they do not represent you, they (judges, attourney generals, etc) represent the state. In Canada, this means the only positions up for election are municipal, provincial or federal representatives, as well as local school board trustees (since they *do* represent your ward in matters of public education).

      It's supposed to be the elected officials' jobs to determine the best candidate for a position. You do not elect the US military commander in Iraq, for instance; that's the president or congress' job, iirc. And while there will be ambitions to advance the ranks internally (as there will anywhere else), we won't have things like the Duke rape case, where the DA was making an obvious election play that thankfully backfired on him

      Don't get me wrong, our system's not perfect either, but in this particular area I think the US system is more flawed than ours.

  17. And in the other direction... by msauve · · Score: 4, Insightful

    in my past life, I worked for a company responsible for the stuff used to create/implement "touch-tone hell."

    When will organizations get a clue - if people don't want to be called, you're only going to piss them off by calling them, and the results will be counter-productive. If you piss me off by making me spend my valuable time going though some poorly designed menu system, only to run into a dead end/disconnect, you can bet that when I do get in touch with a human, I'm going to make sure they get to spend lots of their paid time handling my call.

    --
    "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    1. Re:And in the other direction... by sumdumass · · Score: 5, Funny

      I guess they will get the hint when people stop automatically hanging up on them and start burning resources by keeping the person on line for hours then declaring they aren't interested.

      For instance, I received a third call from an organization soliciting charitable donation. I have already told this organization to take me off the calling list and any other lists they have with my name or number on it two times (I don't do phone donations). After telling this third guy about being order to remove me from the lists, he promptly explained that he wasn't subject to the do not call registry because they were a charity. Of course the the laws concerning removal from calling lists upon request supersede the DNC registry and are a combination of state an federal laws. Well, after this authoritative answer detailing how the laws don't apply to him, I said "Oh, I didn't know that, then asked him to explain what he was representing. I then asked a crap load of stupid questions to drag out his time on the phone. I think I tied him up for about 20 minutes before he started getting anxious about a large donation. I asked if a manager was available to sit in on the call as I wanted to make sure they understood why I was making the donation. Sure enough, after another 10 minutes or so, I got someone on the phone claiming to be a supervisor. I then explained that because I requested to be taken off the list and all lists they were associated with, their call allowed me to file a formal complain with the public utilities commission of the state and I would be entitled to a $500 award for each of their violations of state law. This happened twice so it would be $1000 total and in lieu of collecting, I am donating this $1000 in spirit by not filing the complaint at that time under the provision that I never be contacted by them or their call center again. The manager attempted to asset they weren't subject to the DNC registry again and I explained that the provisions I am speaking of is under state law and existed long before the Do Not Call registry ever has and referred them to the Ohio public utilities commission and the Ohio office of consumer counsil for further explanation. Little was I aware of at the time that Ohio law allows for $2000 fines to be awarded to the person now.

      I never received a call from them again. All in all, I took up about 40 minutes of their time in order to tell them not to call me again or I would take legal action. If everyone, or even 10% of the people did this, it would become economically unfeasible to continue calling people who do not want to be called. And that's without resorting to court or legal actions.

    2. Re:And in the other direction... by Uncle+Rummy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      do the world a favor and skip a couple hours of TV and make a telemarketing firm's life hell.

      You know what would be awesome? If somebody were to set up a phone bank to which we could forward telemarketing calls to tie up the agents' time without having to actually stay on the phone feigning interest. It wouldn't have to be too fancy - just a basic IVR that did something like this:

      Joe Blow: Hello?
      Telemarketer: Hello! My name is Jim and I'm...
      Joe Blow: Oh, hi Jim. Can you hold on a sec? I want to forward you to my other phone because I don't like to keep this line tied up. It'll just take a sec.
      Telemarketer: Uh, sure, no problem.
      [forward to 555-whatever]
      [ring ring]
      IVR: Thanks for waiting - I really need to keep that other line open. So what can I do for you?
      Telemarketer: Oh, uh, as I was saying, my name is Jim and I'm calling on behalf of...
      IVR: Oh, oops - can you hold on a second? Somebody's at the door. Be right back, thanks!
      Telemarketer: Oh, um... ok
      ...[random delay between 1 and 5 minutes]...
      IVR: Sorry, I'm back. My neighbor Shirley is looking for her dogs again. Ha ha ha ha ha.
      Telemarketer: Oh, no problem sir. So, as I was saying, I'm calling on behalf of The Human Fund. We see that you donated...
      IVR: Oh, crap. I have to get the roast out of the oven. Can you hold on a sec again? Sorry - thanks!
      Telemarketer: Uhhh, ok I guess...
      ...[random delay]...

      ...and so on. Surely such a service wouldn't be too terribly expensive or difficult to run these days, would it?

  18. Not the only one == Meg Whitman also doing this. by whoever57 · · Score: 4, Informative

    I just got a robocall that was not compliant with the law (incoming caller-id blocked, no human intro, no phone number given) "by" Mitt Romney on behalf of Meg Whitman.

    --
    The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!