FTC Bombs Massive Robocall Operation

coondoggie writes "The Federal Trade Commission today had a federal court in Chicago halt a major telemarketing operation that made at least 370 million illegal phone calls pitching worthless extended auto warranties and credit card interest rate-reduction programs. According to the FTC, one telephone service provider told the FTC that during a single day in April 2009 the defendants — SBN Peripherals — sent 2.4 million calls to consumers — more than 27 calls per second."

Comments

It's One of Those Days

[eldavojohn]

FTC Bombs Massive Robocall Operation

It's one of those days when you wish the headlines were literal in meaning. I mean, surely the FTC could pull some strings and a few cluster bombs could go "missing" en route to Iraq ...

Re:It's One of Those Days

[somaTh]

I think most of the American public would be okay with labeling them "enemy combatants"

Re:It's One of Those Days

[negRo_slim]

FTC Bombs Massive Robocall Operation

It's one of those days when you wish the headlines were literal in meaning. I mean, surely the FTC could pull some strings and a few cluster bombs could go "missing" en route to Iraq ...

You know that's not such a bad idea as I actually worked for an telemarketing outfit that operated outside FTC regulations. I only lasted a few weeks but eventually I was put in charge web based control of the auto-dialer.

It started with 'debt consolidation' but during my few weeks there it shifted into Auto Warranties and DirectTV as well.

During orientation we were told how they reset the internal do not call list every few weeks, and they justified it by stating by then they might need whatever shady wares were being pedaled.

Either way there were very savy about what they were up to, they were aware of every rule and regulation and loophole as well as the effort required to track down responsible parties. Calling cell phones, people on the DNC list, people in states where you weren't legally allowed to make automated calls too.

The web based cpanel for the autodialer was out of new zealand (where the actual lines making the calls were, I'll never know), the actual companies responsible for implementation for whatever was sold never had much more than a TX phone number most of the time and here we were in Idaho. The best part is the place is right down the street from where I live now, debated on contacting the state AG but this was two years ago by now they're probably selling star names or some other inane shit by now.

Re:It's One of Those Days

[eldavojohn]

I think most of the American public would be okay with labeling them "enemy combatants"

Is it wrong to hope that I someday see a black and white combat video on Wikileaks of an Apache gunship pointed at the blown out wall of some skyscraper with a wounded telemarketer or auto-dialer operator laying next to a headset and the gunners voice come over saying, "Just pick up the #%&$ing headset, just give me a reason, motha$%#@er!"

Seriously, if these are the jerks that harass my poor grandmother then I hope for nothing else for these people. I know it should be directed at the people running the operations but right now everyone involved should be held accountable because they know what they're doing. Why is it that you get in trouble for distributing marijuana for a bigger fish but you don't get in trouble for working as a call operator at some telemarketer who is making illegal telephone calls?

Re:It's One of Those Days

[somaTh]

Is it wrong to hope that I someday see a black and white combat video on Wikileaks of an Apache gunship pointed at the blown out wall of some skyscraper with a wounded telemarketer or auto-dialer operator laying next to a headset and the gunners voice come over saying, "Just pick up the #%&$ing headset, just give me a reason, motha$%#@er!"

Not even a little.

Re:It's One of Those Days

[TheLink]

I saw this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oh4EPcOpSy8 (How to torment telemarketers with one word ).

Didn't seem to torment the telemarketer much. Plus the telemarketer has him on the record as being a moron :D. and I think that was one experienced telemarketer (might have dealt with speaking to bots before - I'm sure someone must have set up a telemarketer handling bot ;) ).

FWIW, I think automated "Hold on, the baby's ...", and similar "please wait" type responses would waste more time.

But if you don't want to tie up your line maybe something like this would help: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_information_tones

Three tones, then "The number you have dialed is not for telemarketing, please wait if you are someone I would like to speak to".

Re:It's One of Those Days

[Anonymous Coward]

Sure, sue them. But only if:

- You can find them (nobody to sue if you don't know who the are)
- You have proof of the contents of the call (their word against yours)
- Your time is free (or at least cheaper than the $500 you might get)

There is a better solution: Just Hang Up On Them.

Re:It's One of Those Days

[berzerke]

I think the following quote sums it up nicely.

I would be more embarrassed to admit to someone that I worked as a telemarketer than I would be to admit that I was a drug dealer. There are some people who LIKE drugs. Nobody likes a telemarketer. -- Mike Helan

Re:It's One of Those Days

[Monkeedude1212]

I worked for our local Telecommunications company a few summers ago. Just a temp job, between semesters.

I applied for call center work, and they basically had 2 options: Sales and 411. In Sales, you'd be calling various customers with offers the telecom had available, and in 411 you'd be recieving calls requesting phone number or address info. While sales isn't as bad* as regular telemarketting, I still didn't and still don't think I could do it, knowing that I'd be basically harassing people. I chose 411, which was definately one of the most interesting jobs I've had. The Drunks on Fridays and Saturdays looking for a Cab are usually very social and hilarious. Anyways. What were we talking about again?

Right. People operating as telemarketers. Should they be strung up along with the big fish? I don't know. Often times it's the only "job" people can get that isn't in the restaurant business. I mean should the cook at McDonalds be put in Jail because he knows he's poisoning civilians with fatty food and giving them diabetes? Should the Factory worker @ Intel be fined x amount of dollars if the CEO's collude and price fix the processors?

I mean, in all those cases, the small fish pretty much knows whats going on but can't really do anything about it.

If anything, its the Marijuana situation that needs to change. They should just make it like hash bars in Amsterdam, or at least how they define them in Pulp Fiction. Legal to own, Legal to buy. If you are the proprieter of a bar, it's legal to sell. But you can only light it up in those bars.

*They're the biggest Telecom in the country so they probably adhere to federal guidelines pretty well.

Re:It's One of Those Days

[interkin3tic]

Why is it that you get in trouble for distributing marijuana for a bigger fish but you don't get in trouble for working as a call operator at some telemarketer who is making illegal telephone calls?

Maybe it's a matter of who is enforcing those laws. Maybe if we put it on the police to track down telemarketers instead of the FTC, we'd start seeing headlines like "Suspected telemarketers accuse Chicago cops of brutality."

Perhaps law enforcement has been less successful at the task of making sure you can't smoke pot. Sure, I'm just saying, I've never had a pot dealer wake me up in the middle of the night to tell me "This is your second notice that your stash of pot is about to expire..."

Re:It's One of Those Days

[Mydnight]

Even better solution -- a guy on one of the forums I frequent had a collection agency that kept on harassing him because of someone else who previously had that number. He also had a home asterisk setup. He routed the collection agency's number back to their own front desk, and recorded the calls -- apparently there was about a week of the secretary and the collections agent swearing at each other several times a day, and then they mysteriously stopped calling...

I got several of these calls

[MyLongNickName]

I returned one of them (they give you a number to call) and asked why my cell was getting spammed. The "professional" got very abusive.

I immediately filed a report. I am glad something actually happens after that. Restores a smidgen of faith in government.

It will restore more if they castrate everyone involved in this scheme.

Re:I got several of these calls

[geekoid]

I love it when people who have no idea on what has to be involved in these investigations assume everyone moves slow~

Arrogance of ignorance at it's best.

I remember them

[MBCook]

I remember them. They called me quite a bit last year. It got to the point I started trying to figure out who they were.

They would call and tell me my car warranty was about to expire. I thanked one of them and asked which of my two cars had the warranty problem... and the guy couldn't answer and hung up.

The answer, of course, is that I don't have any cars/warranties in my name. Whatever he said would have been wrong, but I knew that.

I reported them a couple of times to the FCC.

Re: I remember them

[Black Parrot]

They would call and tell me my car warranty was about to expire. I thanked one of them and asked which of my two cars had the warranty problem... and the guy couldn't answer and hung up.

When robocalls get a hit there is a 2-3 second delay while they connect you to a salesjerk. You almost never get this delay when it's a human caller; they respond to your hello at normal conversational reaction time.

So when I'm feeling surly I just lie the (landline) phone down when I hear the pause, rather than hanging up. I figure if they're willing to waste my time I might as well waste theirs.

I also read somewhere that robocalling software remembers useless numbers and skips over them, so I turned off my answering machine when I was going to be away from the phone for a couple of weeks, and sure 'nough, I get a lot less telespam than I used to.

Re: I remember them

[asdf7890]

http://www.xs4all.nl/~egbg/counterscript.html can be fun to try if you have some time to waste.

A trick I've used with "success" is to be very interested but need to nip out for a second. Something like "ooh yes, I've been looking for a new mobile phone deal, could you hold while I go turn the pans off in the kitchen?". Don't be too eager or they'll smell a rat. Once you have them waiting, nip off and do something else for a while. I've had cold callers wait for my return (according to my phone's call log) for ten minutes or more before now.

Want to get rid of them a little more quickly? Try answering with something like "Hello, you are through to the North Yorkshire Emergency Response Centre, what is your current location?" and role-play from there as much as is needed. They usually appologise and ring off in short order. If tey don't ramp it up with "this is an emergency number, you could be endangering lives by holding it open". Obviously don't do this on a line you get business calls on as you have to jump in before knowing who is calling for it to be convincing - my home landline only exists so I can get ADSL based internet down the line, so I know that any call I get down there is a junk call (everyone else calls my mobile).

Simple solution

[Wonko the Sane]

I have one phone (mobile) and I use Google Voice for all calls.

If I get a call and don't recognize the number or if caller ID is blocked then I don't answer.

If they leave a voicemail I will decide if it is someone I want to talk to or not. If the answer is yes I add them to the address book and call them back. If the answer is no I mark the number as spam and never get bother by it ever again.

Re: Simple solution

[Black Parrot]

I have one phone (mobile) and I use Google Voice for all calls.

If I get a call and don't recognize the number or if caller ID is blocked then I don't answer.

If they leave a voicemail I will decide if it is someone I want to talk to or not. If the answer is yes I add them to the address book and call them back. If the answer is no I mark the number as spam and never get bother by it ever again.

I got a cell phone for emergency use, have never given out the phone number or made a call on it, but I get calls and texts all the time.

Now I just delete off the phone and let the stuff in the voice box rot - the UI makes it too much trouble to delete messages.

Back when I first got it and listened to some of the messages in the voice box, about half of them were prefixed with a recording saying that the call was coming from the state pen. (Especially on holidays - do they get extra phone time or something?) So I wonder if I got a number that formerly belonged to a delivery boy, or if inmates just call random numbers hoping to start some sh*t with someone.

sad news

[tverbeek]

Now I won't have anybody calling me.... :-(

What About the RespOrgs?

[damn_registrars]

The system for toll-free numbers (which are usually the source and return numbers for this crap) is based on "Responsible Organizations" selling toll-free numbers and service to people or companies. The RespOrgs are in no way required to share information on who is paying for what number with anyone, anytime, anywhere, for any reason (the only exception if a warrant is issued). By the time any kind of interest is expressed in the identity behind a toll-free number, the RespOrg who sold it has already told the owner - who responds by moving the same number to a different RespOrg. From there the game of whack-a-mole continues, in a way not all that different from how spammers move their domains from one bad registrar to another to avoid revealing their identifying information.

In short, its great that the FTC shut down a robocalling enterprise. However in the grand scheme of robocalling and spam-calling, the action is a knee-jerk reaction that isn't worth much of anything - at least as long as there is no way for consumers to find out who is really harrassing them.

Death, not just for infidels anymore...

[DarthVain]

Seriously can these people be executed already? I am not talking about the poor jerk getting paid minimum wage to do these soul sucking jobs, but the evil bastards behind these types of things.

Good for the FTC actually doing something about it, most times these guys are so adept at being wriggling bottom feeders that they can slip through every loophole and just keep on doing what they are doing, or once they get shut down, they just start up another one.

I know I have gotten to the point that even on my cell phone, it really just limits my phone usage, as I refuse to answer 1-800, 1-866, or any "unknown" callers. I figure if it is a legit call, and it is important, they can leave a message, and I can decide to return the call or not.

I say line them all up against a wall with all the "businessmen" who have stolen over a million bucks in ponzi schemes and have them all shot. No club fed for you. That goes for all those lying TV infomercials as well. It disgusts me that these people prey on others seemingly without any punishment.

Just thinking about this stuff fills me with rage.

i've been screwing with these people....

[Michael Kristopeit]

i just got my first home phone in a long time through a package deal with time warner (cheaper to get it than not get it...), anyways, i hadn't been exposed to telemarketing in a while, so it's a fun new thing for me.

every call they made showed on the caller id as "SBN Peripherals", so at least they weren't trying to spoof that. i usually got the credit card rate reduction, or claims that i won a cruise. the funny part is i have no credit card debt.... i have no debt of any kind.... so i just talk in the crank yankers voice and demand "i want the lowest rate, lady".... over and over. they'll read their script for 4 responses and then hang up. i'm pretty sure that's where things get illegal... you can't just call me and hang up. I WANT THE LOWEST RATE!#^!&#)!

screw you, SBN. you call me = i waste your time.

Owner of the operation

[crow_t_robot]

Apparently, the owner of the operation here in the US ( Fereidoun "Fred" Khalilian ) is not just a sleezebag in business but in real life too:

http://www.persianhub.org/off-topic-free-talk-published/143955-video-fereidoun-khalilian-accused-sexual-abuse.html

"Paris Hilton's former business partner in Orlando's Club Paris has a history of accusations of sexual misconduct or rape. The Orlando Sentinel has uncovered at least three other incidents in which women claim that Fereidoun "Fred" Khalilian sexually abused them. In 2005, a passerby called police to report that Khalilian tried to rape a woman outside the club. The alleged victim turned out to be Khalilian's girlfriend at the time, Heather Dodt. The entrepreneur was not arrested at the scene, after he claimed he had diplomatic immunity. "I'm a diplomat. You can't arrest me. I own Club Paris," the police report states. After investigating, police discovered he didn't have immunity and filed a misdemeanor battery charge. The case has not yet gone to trial. Meanwhile, TMZ dug up some video showing "Fred" at work in the club. Fred Khalilian Also in 2005, a 21-year-old employee of the club told police that Khalilian invited her to his home, where he allegedly pulled down her pants and had sex with her. The victim says she didn't immediately call cops because she was fearful of losing her job. Weeks later, she says Khalilian punched her in the face, twice, after keeping her at the nightclub after closing. She then filed a police report against him. It's not yet known how this case was resolved. In another incident, a female patron at Club Paris attacked Khalilian after thinking he sexually fondled her from behind while she was dancing on the stage, but an investigation failed to pinpoint Khalilian as the molester. The club owner was arrested yesterday on charges of battery, sexual battery and false imprisonment, stemming from allegations made by a 20-something woman, who says that he raped her at his home last Friday. "Fred" was released last night after posting a $6,000 bond. Video: TMZ: Video Player"

After only 370 million!

[Ichijo]

I'm glad to see it takes only 370 million illegal phone calls to get the FTC interested. The Do Not Call list works!

Re:what I hate most

[southpolesammy]

You're describing the recent trend of Debt Collection Scam. Two of the worst are Allied Interstate and NCO Financial. Now truth be told, those two companies probably do have some legitimate business in collections, but just do a Google search on their company names. Their track record is horrible, and abuse of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act is rampant. It doesn't matter if you owe or not to them, as they're not interested in playing fair -- they are scammers through and through. Got your number on "Do Not Call" registry? They don't care. They're just like spammers looking for that one sucker out of thousands that will pay something they don't owe, and thus, validate their raison d'etre.

In my case, somehow both have gotten a hold of my cell phone number, and are calling at least 1-2x per week. It's always an automated dialer, leaving me a message to call them back at so-and-so number. Never, ever is there a live person, either if I pick up right away, or let it go to voicemail.

Here's the kicker though -- when they first started, I got worried that I might have been the victim of identity theft, so I pulled all 3 of my credit reports. All 3 are clean as a whistle and have been for years, and there are no unexpected accounts or credit inquiries. So, as mentioned above, they're trolling for suckers, and seeing who will return the call and then will harass the caller into paying something they don't owe.

The scambusters website has a lot more good information on this growing scam. Go here --> http://www.scambusters.org/debt.html

FWIW -- I've recently filed complaints with the FTC. We'll see where that goes.

It's One of Those RoboDays

[TiggertheMad]

"These are tough times. If a man can get a job, he might not look too close at what that job is."

true, but aren't we talking about robo-calling? Is the job slump so bad that robots have to accept these crappy jobs in call centers?