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Publishing Company Puts Warning Label on Constitution

Wilder Publication is under fire for putting warning labels on copies of historical US documents, including the Constitution. The label warns "This book is a product of its time and does not reflect the same values as it would if it were written today." From the article: "The disclaimer goes on to tell parents that they 'might wish to discuss with their children how views on race, gender, sexuality, ethnicity, and interpersonal relations have changed since this book was written before allowing them to read this classic work.'"

17 of 676 comments (clear)

  1. So.... what's the outrage again? by jdgeorge · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm mystified. Why is somebody unhappy about having advice to take historical context in mind when reading the constitution, which in its original doesn't reflect (for example) voting rights for women and former slaves?

    1. Re:So.... what's the outrage again? by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well, for one thing, it has been properly amended to cover those situations. Unlike much stuff from FDR onward, which was just magically assumed to fall under the propriety of the government's reach without amendment. If society changes, you change the Constitution, which has a built-in, slow, deliberative, supermajority process. If it's that good an idea, most should want it, and still want it 5 or 10 years down the road. If that is not the case, you have no business passing such laws in the first place.

      If anything, there should be a warning on that warning. "The above warning is a product of its time and does not reflect the same values as if it were written back then. Parents might wish to discuss with their children how memes espoused by the power hungry have bypassed the amendment process by declarative fiat."

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    2. Re:So.... what's the outrage again? by jdgeorge · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The overt argument that you should NOT consider historical context when reading the constitution (which appears to be what you're saying) doesn't follow.

      It is true that people can draw ridiculous conclusions of relevance or irrelevance based on historical context, but they can draw equally ridiculous conclusions without any historical context.

  2. In keeping with tradition, really by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The US Constitution itself is a politically correct document. Look how it dances around the issue of slavery: "Person held to Service or Labour" and "three fifths of all other Persons" are the really egregious ones. Everyone knew who these "other Persons" were, but nobody wanted to say it. It wasn't until 1865, almost 80 years later, that the word "slavery" appeared in the 13th amendment, when it was safely in the past tense -- and then in 1870, when the mealy-mouthed Southern gentry, who had been willing to fight a war on behalf of slavery but could never talk about it when Yankees were about, were back in Congress, the 15th gently whispers about "previous condition of servitude."

    So for those who think PC is some new an unique blight on our language, sorry, it's pretty much part of our national DNA.

    There are other instances which still cause trouble today. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" means that it's illegal for the government to give money to churches just as much as "or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" means that it's illegal for for the government to ban them. And "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State" is explanatory, not prescriptive; "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed" is the part that has the force of law, and all they really needed to write. But there's been enough wiggle room in the phrasing for the enemies of liberty to exploit for the last 220+ years.

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    The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
  3. This is his standard disclaimer guys by neltana · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Hate to break up of the controversy with facts, but this disclaimer is just boilerplate the distributor puts on all of his products. He publishes lots of public domain works and he got sick an tired of people complaining about the language or mores.

    You can get the full story on his blog: http://warrenlapine.livejournal.com/

    I've known Warren for years. If he had been trying to make a point, he would flat out say that was what he was doing.

  4. Re:A Better Target by lgw · · Score: 5, Insightful

    No, the difference is: there's a process to change the Constitution if you think it's outdated. The process is not "just ignore what you have sworn to uphold and defend". It requires a supermajority for a reason.

    Without constitutional fundamentalism we have raw democracy: the tyranny of the majority writ large. It's not a good thing.

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    Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  5. Re:A Better Target by Darkness404 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So which parts of the constitution do you find is "out of date"? Is it that it protects the rights of citizens and requires a warrant for you to be searched according to it? Or is it that you don't like freedom of speech? Or is it that you don't believe we should have the right to legally bear arms to defend ourselves against criminals or, should it become a form of tyranny, the government? Or is it that you don't believe in the right to a trial by jury?

    All of the things in the constitution are great guiding points, with the exception of the amendment allowing the income tax, and the (thankfully repealed) amendment allowing the prohibition of alcohol.

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    Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
  6. Re:Worrying trend by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What is next? The banning of all primary source materials in school textbooks because they are old?

    Except this isn't banning anything. Great slippery slope fallacy though!

  7. Re:A Better Target by conspirator57 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Pol pot, Mao, and Stalin certainly didn't need any stinkin' bible to commit genocide. Plain human greed and sociopathy work just fine on their own. One might even reasonably think that hatred of religion qua religion is a red herring.

    --
    "If still these truths be held to be
    Self evident."
    -Edna St. Vincent Millay
  8. Re:Interpret it correctly by conspirator57 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    no, actually, when i say it I mean that no one section should hold primacy over the rest. So for example, Bush had legitimate Article II power to run the military and defend the country but he overreached when he claimed it enabled him to annul Habeas and the 4th amendment. See how that works there? Each part of the constitution is as important as each other part.

    --
    "If still these truths be held to be
    Self evident."
    -Edna St. Vincent Millay
  9. Re:Interpret it correctly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    For starters it doesn't mention how the militia should be regulated, what constitutes Arms or where they have the right to keep and bear them.

  10. Re:Interpret it correctly by Minwee · · Score: 5, Funny

    What part of SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED do people not understand?!?!?!

    The part where the people are tearing the arms off of bears.

  11. Re:Warning Unnecessary by oldspewey · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Exactly. Like this guy.

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    If libertarians are so opposed to effective government, why don't they all move to Somalia?
  12. Re:Interpret it correctly by inviolet · · Score: 5, Insightful

    How the fuck is that vague? What part of SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED do people not understand?!?!?!

    There is room for legitimate disagreement over the definition of 'arms'. To wit: does it include machine guns? Flamethrowers? SAMs? Nukes? Why or why not?

    A political right means that anybody is automatically WRONG to interfere with you when you do it. By 'wrong' I mean: it would create an environment unsuitable for creatures with our nature and requirements. For example, it is wrong to ban books, because our nature as rational sovereigns is to pursue truth independently and then build consensus by persuasion.

    Regarding the RKBA, it is automatically wrong for someone to take away a means of self-defense that is practical in those situations where the state can't protect you. Today that amounts to handguns, shotguns, etc.; tomorrow it will mean stun-phasers, sleep rays, whatever. It does not and will not include nukes (etc.) because it is the state's prerogative to protect you in those contexts... hence, nukes are not included in the RKBA. In other words, it is not automatically wrong for somebody to say you can't have a nuke.

    That said, I'm a rabid gun owner, CCL, second-amendment advocate, and so forth. But I think we do ourselves a disservice when we insist that the RKBA is infinite, or without context.

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    FATMOUSE + YOU = FATMOUSE
  13. Re:Interpret it correctly by Zondar · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You also should be careful not to impose a modern definition of a word when the actual definition at the time was COMPLETELY different.

    A clock should be "well regulated", but that has nothing to do with laws or statutes or rules.

    http://www.constitution.org/cons/wellregu.htm

    =======

    The following are taken from the Oxford English Dictionary, and bracket in time the writing of the 2nd amendment:

            1709: "If a liberal Education has formed in us well-regulated Appetites and worthy Inclinations."

            1714: "The practice of all well-regulated courts of justice in the world."

            1812: "The equation of time ... is the adjustment of the difference of time as shown by a well-regulated clock and a true sun dial."

            1848: "A remissness for which I am sure every well-regulated person will blame the Mayor."

            1862: "It appeared to her well-regulated mind, like a clandestine proceeding."

            1894: "The newspaper, a never wanting adjunct to every well-regulated American embryo city."

    The phrase "well-regulated" was in common use long before 1789, and remained so for a century thereafter. It referred to the property of something being in proper working order. Something that was well-regulated was calibrated correctly, functioning as expected. Establishing government oversight of the people's arms was not only not the intent in using the phrase in the 2nd amendment, it was precisely to render the government powerless to do so that the founders wrote it.

  14. Re:A Better Target by Pharmboy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If the US was a pure democracy, the Civil Rights movement would have been stopped in its tracks, just as an example. Pure democracy leads to Populism, which leads to Fascism. This is the whole reason why the US was never setup as a Democracy, and instead as a Democratic Republic.

    IMO, they shouldn't have changed the way US Senators were elected, which is now less of a republican style system and more of a democracy. Then again, I'm pretty big on the individual States having most of the power and the Federal government ONLY doing the things that the States can't do, like defense, treaties, regulate interstate commerce, you know, the stuff in the actual Constitution that it is only supposed to be doing.

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    Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
  15. Re:Interpret it correctly by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 5, Informative

    For starters it doesn't mention how the militia should be regulated, what constitutes Arms or where they have the right to keep and bear them.

    For that you do what "historiographers" do: Go back to the writings of the time and find out what the words meant to the authors and the other politicians who debated, suggested, and approved the wording. These people wrote a LOT of stuff which has survived in the historical record, much of it explaining what they meant or debating what it should say and why.

    The editor of _The Federalist_ - the political party paper of one of the major factions, in which much of this stuff was published - was Noah Webster, who was also a language reformer who wrote the then-definitive textbooks for teaching American English and compiled and published the first dictionary of the American English language. Timeline:
      - 1783 Speller published.
      - 1784 Grammar published.
      - 1785 Reader published.
      - 1787 Constitution completed.
      - 1789 Bill of Rights completed.
      - 1806 Webster's first dictionary published.

    It's pretty clear that

      - "Militia" was "everybody with their privately-owned arms" (later defined in law as divided into the "organized militia" - males of appropriate age except for those exempt due to things like being in other government service, and the "unorganized militia" - everybody else able and willing to fight.

      - "Arms" in private hands at the time included warships, cannon (both small and large, including crew-served weapons on shipboard and on carriages), the latest smooth bore, rifle, and pistol technology, rockets, bombs, bayonets, swords, daggers, and other edged weapons, etc. Figure on it including anything of potential military application. (They also understood and promoted progress and invention, and knew about attempts at automatic weapons and interchangeable parts for mass production. So figure it includes future developments, just as "press" includes automated high-speed presses and broadcast media, and "papers" includes electronic records.)

      - "Well-regulated" at the time meant "well-adjusted" or "in accurate operating condition", not "under the rule of a government official". Like a voltage regulator, not a beaurocrat. A clock was "well-regulated" to keep accurate time. A double-barreled shotgun was "well regulated" if the shot patterns from both barrels hit the same spot. "Well-regulated" for a militia meant that they had training in how to shoot and how to work together. At the time this was typically done on a local level, with periodic practice and with officers elected by the militiamen themselves.

      - Where: 1785 August 19. (Jefferson to Peter Carr). "As to the species of exercise, I advise the gun. While this gives a mederate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprize, and independence to the mind. Let your gun, therefore, be the constant companion of your walks."

    Obviously Jefferson didn't completely agree with Webster's attempts to "regulate" American English spelling.

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