Slashdot Mirror
DoE Posts Raw Data From Oil Spill, Coast Guard Asks For Tech Help
coondoggie writes "The US Department of Energy this week opened an online portal where the public can get all the technical details it can stomach about the BP oil disaster in the Gulf. The DoE site offers online access to schematics, pressure tests, diagnostic results and other data about the malfunctioning blowout preventer and other problems in the ongoing mess. This comes alongside news that the US Coast Guard has issued a call for better specialized technology to help it respond to the ever-widening spill. The Coast Guard is looking for all manner of technology, such as advanced wireless sensors to help it track the movement and amount of oil in the Gulf, or devices that could help to contain and control the underwater leak."
Reader freddled points out a story at the Guardian that illustrates how the location of an oil leak is frequently the primary factor in its perceived importance.
Has anyone seen the new "Visit Florida" ads?
They discuss the fact that potential tourists are worried about the Gulf spill, and then say something like ...
"Florida has 835 miles of coastline. Northeast Florida has 221 miles of crystal clean beaches..."
In other words, "Come to Florida! Only 3/4 of our coast is covered in oil!!!"
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
How does a reader point something out when there's 1 comment on this article and it's not that "Reader"?
-Malakai
A Dragon Lives in my Garage
They gotta be shitting me? So if it's near my house or where I'm going on holiday I'll think it's more serious than if it's in some kind of bongo-bongo land that I couldn't even point to on a map - and a map of bongo-bongo land to boot!
Awesome.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Do you know what the amount of pressure was from the leak when BP's 3 failsafe's failed? 20k+ psi. The NOAA has that info; at least they did yesterday.
Crude is extracted at +/-1,500 psi, so they were drilling deep enough to hit magma pockets (I forget the proper nomenclature for those types of pockets).
Only Russia has successfully drilled that deep...but they weren't dumb enough to try that kind of depth under the pressure and weight of the freakin' ocean.
20,000+ psi will destroy anything man can make to "plug" the leak. Is our only option nuking it?
If so, even if they do angle drill and drop a nuke, what if it cracks the strata further?
IMHO this will help to shuttle in that BS carbon tax. The longer the leak remains, the more damage, the more "reason" for the aforementioned tax. ...But, of course, this is conspiracy stuff. :)
Because it isn't going through rock, it's going through mud. If you think it's hard to stop a gusher from a 2' diameter pipe, imagine how hard it would be to stop a 40,000 BBL/dy, methane propelled ooze from a 500 foot radius area with no containment.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
...is let the president know of our support for Clean Energy:
http://my.barackobama.com/CleanEnergy-auto
Pick one:
The RUSSIANS did that sort of thing. The RUSSIANS. RUSSIANS.
There's a one-in-a-billion chance it could make things SLIGHTLY WORSE by making the oil come up at SEVERAL spots in the area instead of the one shitstream we hope to maybe have under better control in a few months.
If we blew it up, we couldn't reuse that well.
Rubber duckies with GPS tracking built-in. Wherever the oil is going, the ducks will go too.
Any chance to expose the pillaging of Africa is a good thing IMHO. Such a tragedy, does anyone care? Not many where I live. Now I know that not everyone can account for what happens on the other side of the world, but I mention the Niger Delta, the DRC, the current state of Somalia and their civil war, Sudan, Egypt's relationship with Israel, anything from Africa.. and watch the eyes glaze over. I usually just take it as a chance to tell someone, an opportunity. If we ever want to be a truly global community then we need to know what is going on in that community. Heads in the sand cause future conflict.
The RUSSIANS did that sort of thing. The RUSSIANS. RUSSIANS.
Yes the Russian successfully performed the procedure on land. This is underwater at 5000 feet.
As for the explosives, I offer you this car analogy:
After the mechanic ruptured my gas tank while performing a routine checkup, he blurted out the excuse "there's a lot of pavement out there so don't worry about it" and offered to install a nitrous system instead. Do I really want that nitrous system?
Let's call Chuck Norris, he'll roundhouse-kick the oil back into its hole.
the glad-to-know-you-guys-are-on-top-of-things dept.
Are they on top of this like oil on water?
Let q be a radix > 1. I am in ur base-q, killing 10 d00ds.
While they tried to block the flow of oil by shoving mud and other stuff down the tube, is there are a reason why they couldn't use some variant of expandable foam to seal the pipe?
By that I mean, shove a smaller diameter pipe down the main pipe, say to a depth of 500', then inject the expandable foam into the main pipe to seal it?
Yes, I am aware, as James Cameron remarked, one has to worry about the oil bursting out somewhere else, but is my above question even feasible?
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
I'm still wondering why can't they make a mile long plastic tube (tough nylon mesh fabric coated with oil proof material) that's wider than the BOP at the bottom end. Lower it down from a tanker to the BOP, use the robots to wrap it around the bottom of the BOP so it's encased and then the oil will be contained and it could be pumped out at the surface. Oil is less dense than water so it should rise up the tube to the tanker. You don't even have to care about a poor seal at the bottom where the end is wrapped around the casement pipe since there's no pressure difference involved (unlike the other attempts so far where they jam things right in the pipe. Also since the oil is moving out in the open in the tube there's no freezing problems.
yeah, i guess i can fire up the bluegene for this...but just this once!
and you so totally owe me a beer.
Good people go to bed earlier.
You do remember that the flaming oil fields in Iraq were successfully put out by explosives, right? Detonating an explosive near the well could potentially close the breach without introducing it to catching fire or exploding. Given the properties of underwater/underground explosives, you could also drill a hole nearby and drop some explosives in there to seal off a long stretch of the well.
At least, in my head that makes sense.
Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
The RUSSIANS did that sort of thing. The RUSSIANS. RUSSIANS.
I'd like to bring up that a physicist is heading up the government's working group on the spill. If the approach has technical merit, I'm sure that Dr. Chu will be able to evaluate it. You know, based on the physics of the problem, rather than repeating the word "Russians" a couple of times.
"You do remember that the flaming oil fields in Iraq were successfully put out by explosives, right?"
Talk about a non sequitur. Explosives were used in Iraq to terminate combustion. Is that what we're dealing with in the Gulf?
Alright, I hereby give you my permission to stop the Gulf Oil Leak. Report back in a week.
The drill depth was never attempted before by BP, and now from what I have heard from inside sources, the drill depth has produced pressures beyond the technical resources of _any_ of our science at the well head to contain it. All three safety measures failed at the well head.
These pressures were not expected and where a surprise and unfortunately the equipment cannot handle it.
So, it isn't that anyone is stupid, it simply cannot be stopped using any known engineering science.
Interestingly enough, our Russian friends currently hold the record for drill depth. But Russian obsession with drill depth mainly have to do with politics, in that they do not want any sources of Oil influenced by western banking or US dollars. So, against current thinking about how Oil forms (it is a fossil fuel) most Russians believe it is formed through natural processes in the Earth's crust through some unknown geological chemical process. The Russians are also familiar with the consequences of drilling those sorts of depths (10 miles down or further) and would _never_ attempt to do something like that in the Gulf. Why? Because the well head pressures at the surface require specialized and very large structures to contain the pressure that is almost impossible to build at that ocean depth as BP did in the Gulf. So, they only do that on land.
But I digress, but this theory of natural geological process to create Oil is called Abiotic Oil.
If you have not heard of it, it is because only recently have depths been achievable to test it, so there hasn't been any evidence to support it.
Incidentally, when BP was contracted to create the well, the Russians were surprisingly silent and returned no comments on the project.
But over the past 5 years the Russians began projects to test this theory and now have very secretive wells, 5 of them and just 5 wells that have single handedly turned Russia from the number 5 Oil producer to number one in the past 5 years. Internally producing more Oil than Saudi Arabia.
So, if you here people proposing tactical Nukes to shut the well down, they aren't joking. It may be the only way to do it by fusing the crust....if it works.
My guess is, this Oil Well, due to the facts above, isn't going to be shut down any time soon and this could be going on for a while, perhaps even YEARS.
-Hackus
Got Geometrodynamics? Awe, too hard to figure out? Too bad.
Please explain your car analogy. I've put a lot of effort into analyzing it against what I know, and I clearly must be missing something.
+1 Disagree
I don't think reusing the well is an option. The relief wells will kill it without possibility of reuse. At least that's the plan. As for explosions, they my have unexpected side effects that could conceivably make things worse. When the russians resorted to the nukes, it was because alternatives had be exhausted. Also, you should be wondering if it was so successful, why have they not attempted it again since the early 80s? Was there some undisclosed event that could make it undesirable?
I like my dinosaurs feathery, and my pterosaurs hairy (or is it pycnofibery?)
IIRC, the explosions were used to blow out the fires. After the fire was out, crews could come in and bring the wellhead under control. The wells weren't sealed shut by the explosions.
This should have happened on about day 2, not on day 50 (or whatever we're up to now).
Unfortunately, we've had no leadership on this matter. Just a politician trying to act like a thug and put his foot to the throat of BP and kick someone's ass. As much as I like Obama, I think he missed a chance to shine on this one!
He could have organized a multi-faceted team to gather leaders from industry, government, and military, and had organized committees focused on a) stopping the leak, b) preventing it from hitting the shores, c) cleaning it up, d) getting ideas from the public, e) technology, f) fund-raising (through federal budget, FEMA, and "save the gulf" telethons and the like), g) communications with the public, h) regulatory changes, and i) prevention of future disasters. He really needed a quick "war room" approach to this issue. There are plenty of people, employed in the Oil industry, employed in the shipping industry, and unemployed people who would gladly chip in to help. Especially for pay. But that didn't happen.
OK, proceed to mod me down because you're in love with your politician, and can't offer constructive criticism of someone that you voted for.
If they seal the well, will you buy me a turkey?
If they don't, I'll buy you a Russian.
(To be clear, I mean this hole, I would not be surprised if they come back and put a new hole in the reservoir once people use their desire for cheap gasoline to forget about the carnage)
Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
The relief wells will kill it without possibility of reuse.
Exactly, making that part of the whole "why they aren't using explosives" conspiracy rather retarded.
At least that's the plan. As for explosions, they my have unexpected side effects that could conceivably make things worse.
Seriously. You know people watch too many action movies when they think every engineering challenge can be solved with a big enough explosion, and more difficult problems simply require bigger explosions. Nukes are the biggest kaboom, ergo they are the perfect solution!
Also, you should be wondering if it was so successful, why have they not attempted it again since the early 80s? Was there some undisclosed event that could make it undesirable?
The Russians? Not fully disclose any and all failures? Surely you jest!
The enemies of Democracy are
This is not "-1, Offtopic". It is "+5, sadly true". Please remoderate.
Right, but is there fallacy in drilling secondary holes nearby and "pushing" the well shut with secondary explosives?
What I was thinking was 2-3 holes nearby equidistant from each other and set off at the same time. Wouldn't that push enough mass to seal the well or cause enough rubble and opposite pressure to close it of?
I could be wrong and it could all go downhill from there.
Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
Does this "Raw-Data-From-Oil-Spill" come in a tar file?
No brain, no pain.
more info
You don't have the foggiest idea what you are talking about. The explosive system used to put out oil field fires doesn't necessarily, or intentionally close the well in any way. It simply blows out the fire so that workers can get in and contain the well head.
Yeah, we covered that.
Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
I'm not talking about putting out a fire here. I'm talking about collapsing the already drilled well.
With all the responses (that apparently don't read each other) berating me for stating that explosives can/have been used I apparently should have left that part out.
YES! I KNOW that the explosives were used to put out the fire and not actually close the wells.
Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
As a former member of the US Coast Guard, I can say they definitely need help with technology. When I was in (6 months ago), we were still using reel to reel tape drives, and teletypewriters (Yes teletypes, like they had in the 1950's) as THE major means of input / output into their fire control computer (A Unisys UYK-7 with a CPU made up of discreet components) I am sure many of you here could design a MUCH better system. However, institutional inertia being what it is they do not / can not. I can tell you many other hilarious stories about unauthorized overflights of Columbia and Counter Narcotic operations that were more Counter common sense then counter narcotics, but I won't. Needless, to say, I do not think these guys are the best people to be handling the crisis. It really bugs me that Admiral Thad is on the TV every night.
Most things react badly to explosives, they may just rupture the pipe undergorund rather than pinch it off, the shatterd rock will then have billions of cracks where the oil can work it's way from the undergound rupture to the surface. You are then left with the same amount of oil gushing out of a multitude of smaller holes in the sea floor over a wide area rather than through a single narrow pipe.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
kiloseven.blogspot.com recalls two successful self-sealing subterrene nukes detonated in Mississippi only 187 miles from Leak Zero, Now, if we could onlytest it on BP headquarters first...
There is nothing wrong with yr Internet. Do not attempt to adjust the picture. We are controlling the transmission - NSA
Perhaps if he put his car analogy in terms of another car analogy it would make more sense.
"linux is just DOS with a UNIX like syntax" -- Galactic Dominator (944134)
With the new riser in place, you can expect that most of the mud is still going to be pushed back out of the leaking top hat on the blowout preventer, but a bunch is also going to be pushed up the new riser. This will provide some back pressure and allow you to tighten the top hat, and, thus, get a higher percentage of mud in the new pipe. Eventually (if all goes well), you'll be able to almost entirely fill the new riser with mud (which will provide about 2000-10000PSI of back pressure, depending on how dense the mud is)., and hopefullly enough that they can completely seal the system nd stop the oil flow.....
In fact, if things get good enough, the oil should, at some point, back-flow back into the blowout preventer, and down into the well, itself -- possibly eventually providing enough back-pressure in the lower well, itself, to allow a proper capping process to take place.
Sometimes boldness is in fashion. Sometimes only the brave will be bold.
I'm awaiting official documentation that I am in fact in charge.
And if he's against it and has a reason rooted in physics, it'll be the
There's a one-in-a-billion chance it could make things SLIGHTLY WORSE by making the oil come up at SEVERAL spots in the area instead of the one shitstream we hope to maybe have under better control in a few months.
excuse.
I'm sorry, but I'm not a pussy.
Boom goes the dynamite.
The well will be destroyed and the surrounding rock will collapse in on it.
It is the well that prevents the Earth from naturally sealing up. Destroy the well, the Earth will seal up.
http://gulfspill.me/ has a nice embedable widget showing the ever increasing tally of oil spewing into the gulf.
AF-Design, web development.