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Location Services Raise Privacy Concerns

Posted by CmdrTaco on from the this-all-sounds-familiar dept.

megahurt writes "Location-based services are becoming more common, and the features they add to mobile devices can be useful and even fun. But the downside is that everyone who reads the posting will know the user isn't home. On top of that, some services, such as Foursquare, can be linked to Twitter feeds. Peter Eckersley, senior staff technologist, says there are many situations in which the location data that is kept could be misused. Many of the providers of services say in their privacy policies they will give up the data in cases where it is subpoenaed. That isn't always from law enforcement; sometimes the data can be used in civil lawsuits such as divorce cases."

17 of 152 comments (clear)

  1. You don't have to use these services by Pete+Venkman · · Score: 5, Insightful

    People don't have to use these services.

    1. Re:You don't have to use these services by phooka.de · · Score: 4, Insightful

      People are stupid (or rather they are uninformed).

      That's what the law is there for (amongst other things): to protect the uninformed masses and the stupid so you don't have to be an expert in every field you encounter in your daily life.

    2. Re:You don't have to use these services by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 4, Funny

      True - but wouldn't it be nice if we lived in a world where we could have our cake and eat it too? Where there only was one side of the coin?

      Perhaps if there was some addition to the law saying that this sort of digital information was useless in court, we'd be one step closer to creating that reality. That reality where the people to cake ratio is exactly 1:1. Where everyone's piece not only is a corner piece with lots of icing but also a part of the artwork so you get that sugary gelatin stuff too. Where the bottom is a nice firm cookie based and the inside is moist and soft, or ice-cream if you prefer. ... What were we talking about again?

    3. Re:You don't have to use these services by Rogerborg · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Civil law deals with fraud, malice and bad faith. I'm not so sure that it's there to give any reasonable, educated person of average intellect (which is what the law calls the "uninformed masses") with an Undo button for their voluntary actions. That's certainly not how it works in criminal statues.

      Oh, I thought I could just sell this iPhone I "found". Undo. Wait, getting into a consensual bar fight means we're both guilty of affray? Undo. The speed limit here is 30, officer? Undo.

      If ignorance of the law is not an excuse, general purpose ignorance probably isn't either.

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    4. Re:You don't have to use these services by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You might have a friend who does, and that could wind up leading to location information about you too: your friend announces that they are hanging out with you, and the location data announces where your friend is doing that.

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  2. So... by Spad · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Remember to turn off the location services of your phone before you:

    • Break the law
    • Cheat on your partner
    • Skip school/work
    • Do anything else where you wouldn't want people to know your location

    If only there were some kind of sense, possibly a common one, that would help avoid these nasty problems.

    1. Re:So... by gstoddart · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If only there were some kind of sense, possibly a common one, that would help avoid these nasty problems.

      You know, new technology creates new situations which previously hadn't needed to be considered.

      We're talking a very small number of years that the exact location you were standing when you did something is a matter of electronic record.

      Common sense being neither, and the total number of years in which people have had to contend with such issues is relatively low. While you can sound all smug and say "everyone should know that", the reality is that most people with a smart phone barely know what all it does, let alone the legal ramifications of carrying one around. And, the number of people who have had their location subpoenaed for a tweet they made as part of their divorce case? Probably a very small number.

      Why is the Slashdot crowd so myopic about technology that they think all of these issues have been around for decades, or that everyone who happens to use what is now a fairly ubiquitous technology is fully dialed into all of the aspects of that technology?

      Some of these are actually quite new social and legal considerations. Acting like you've known this forever makes you sound like a smug idiot.

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    2. Re:So... by PatHMV · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Not to go all insensitive clod on you, but.... When I was a kid, a member of my immediate family passed away. The newspaper printed the obituary and noted (against my dad's instructions) that the funeral would be in another town, in a distant part of the state. When we returned home several days later, we found that burglars had broken into the house while we were gone. Eventually it was confirmed that the burglars had read the obituaries, saw we would be out of town, and used that information to decide to rob us. So, there are very GOOD reasons for people who are doing nothing wrong to also not want the world at large to know their location.

    3. Re:So... by Jimmy+King · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why is the Slashdot crowd so myopic about technology that they think all of these issues have been around for decades, or that everyone who happens to use what is now a fairly ubiquitous technology is fully dialed into all of the aspects of that technology?

      Some of these are actually quite new social and legal considerations. Acting like you've known this forever makes you sound like a smug idiot.

      It should be common sense that if something is tracking where you are at all times, then people will know where you are/were. You're right in that people commonly don't know how their expensive gadgets work and what they are capable of at even the most basic level, but just because something happens to be the common case doesn't mean that it "should" be the common case and accepted.

      If you want to own and play with complex things then you need to understand complex things or it's more likely to come back and bite you in the ass. You don't necessarily need to understand it at more than a basic level, but you do need some level of understanding. Just like I don't understand toasters (a comparative simple bit of tech) well enough to build one but I understand them well enough to know not stick my finger in it when it's on or recently has been on. As those things get more complex, what you'll need to know and understand also tends to get more complex. This applies to many things in life, but is unfortunately ignored when it comes to computer related tech.

    4. Re:So... by gstoddart · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It should be common sense

      Why do people think that "common sense" is some intrinsic, infallible sense of what is happening around you? At best, it's a measure of "well known shared experiences" that most people remember. At worst, it's merely an expectation that other people should know the things we consider obvious.

      If you want to own and play with complex things then you need to understand complex things or it's more likely to come back and bite you in the ass.

      You know, I'm going to pull some numbers out of my ass for purposes of illustration: 90% of people don't understand 90% of the workings of 90% of the technology that surrounds them on a daily basis. That might even be generous, but the specifics of the numbers is irrelevant. The barrier to having technology isn't understanding any more, it's paying for it.

      They don't really know how a fridge works. Their thermostat is a complete mystery. The workings of a radio is a complete unknown. A light switch makes the dark go away if the bulb isn't burned out. Traffic signals work, but they don't know why. A smart phone is just like that black thing grandma had with the dial, but you can send pictures and text -- that's about the extent of their understanding. They're not required to know anything more than that.

      Your toaster analogy is apt -- since for most people, that's about the full extent of how much they will truly understand their smart phone. And, considering a lot of these location based services are less than 2-3 years old, it's not like there has been time for these issues to come to light. People just turn it on, push the pretty buttons, and go. When their friends start using something, they do to. They're not doing any reflecting on the issues of using that technology -- they're not even thinking of it as technology, it' a button. It's part of the phone. It's infrastructure and therefore largely invisible.

      They completely lack a frame of reference to seriously ponder the fact that something which is "cool" or "popular" can have ramifications beyond what they have conceived of. Heck, they can't even conceive of the potential issues, since they don't know how it all works.

      The reality is, we give more and more complex devices to people on a daily basis. Companies add new features they think their users will like, but the technology is so new, that sometimes even they haven't thought through the possible issues. Computers and technology have gotten into the mainstream far faster than a general understanding of how they work. Heck, I see 10-year old kids with phones -- I'm not even sure most of them are capable of understanding what is being said on the topic of privacy, or why it's important.

      I'm just not convinced any more that you can lay all of this at the feet of the users and say it's their fault. I'm not saying we don't need better consumer education. But the pace of technology in our lives means that stuff is happening that most people will never be really 'informed' on all of these topics. I just don't think this is a simple "do this" kind of fix that makes it all go away -- it' way more complex than that.

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    5. Re:So... by nyctopterus · · Score: 4, Interesting

      This is a fairly typical attitude among intelligent people, and is especially strong about their area of expertise. Unfortunately, in the real world, people are pretty much forced to use things they barely understand just to live a vaguely normal life. Many of these people simply do not have the mental capacity to address all the thing which they "should" understand. Even the most intelligent people are often dangerously ignorant in many areas (although they often fail to realise it).

      No, to large extent it is up to the designers and overseers of complex (yet common) technology and systems that things behave in a relatively expected and benign way.

  3. Re:Simple fix by Spad · · Score: 3, Informative

    A lot of phones will offer location information using cell towers if GPS isn't available. It's not as accurate, but it's "close enough" for most purposes.

  4. You missed a few by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Remember to turn off your phone before you:

    1. Leave your valuables unattended
    2. Do anything politically-related, such as attend a rally
    3. Buy things with so-called "anonymous" cash
    4. Make a phone call
  5. Latitude by dandart · · Score: 3, Informative

    Latitude (sort of) solves this problem by only sending location data to approved friends and only when you want it to. Now all you have to worry about is untrustworthy friends.

  6. This has all played out before by Abalamahalamatandra · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Back in the early days of APRS (Automatic Position Reporting System?), the ham radio community was happily mounting GPS trackers in their cars and sending their position out for convenient viewing on APRS screens. It was fun.

    Then Steve Dimse came along and started getting these position reports from the Internet to APRS gateways, making them available on a Java applet for anyone to see, and archiving them. People were more than a little bit unhappy at the time, but I think the consensus that was finally reached was "If you have a problem with that, turn off your tracker!".

    I think the same applies here. The info is public, you should know it's public, so if you don't want it to be public, don't send it out.

  7. Re:Need locational anonymity scheme by ArcherB · · Score: 3, Informative

    There must be a way to get the location services you want, like finding the local Krispy-Kreme, without broadcasting your location to the service in question. Like a blocked phone number.

    The services mentioned here are only those that you explicitly run that you give permission to broadcast your location. Google Latitude, for example, will show your location on Google Maps to everyone you give permission to show it to.

    It's not just your GPS that can get you in trouble, but your own stupidity can do just as well of a job. An example would be taking a picture a of a well known foreign landmark while vacationing and posting it on your Facebook page with the caption, "Look at what I saw today".

    It's also a good idea to NOT geo-tag your photos if you take them of anyplace you don't want people to know the location of, like your living room in front of your new big screen TV and pile of cash.

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  8. Re:...But Pseudo-Geek Hipsters Simply HAVE to by Gizzmonic · · Score: 3, Funny

    You lend money to a bunch of pseudo-geek hipsters? What's your job, Loan Shark 2.0? Do you break their Twitter accounts if they don't pay up?

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