Bill Proposes Canadian Cellphone Unlocking Rights

SJrX sends in a CBC report that the Canadian New Democratic Party has tabled a bill requiring all cellphone companies to provide unlocked cellphones. (Wikipedia notes, "The party is regarded as falling on the left in the Canadian political spectrum.") This reader adds, "The fact that there is a minority government currently should help this bill's chances of getting passed." "The bill proposes three rules: cellphone carriers would be required to notify customers at the point of purchase whether a phone is locked to work only on their network; they would have to remove such a lock free of charge at any point after the conclusion of the customer's service contract; and they would have to remove it if the customer does not enter into a contract within six months of buying the device up front."

Comments

Unless C-32 goes through

[al3]

"Sure you're free to take this phone to another carrier, just don't circumvent the DRM to do it"

Oh Canada

[elrous0]

Between laws like this, universal healthcare, low crime, etc. I'm considering hiring a coyote to smuggle me and my family across the border. All of the advantages of modern America without all the ultra-right-wing bullshit and wars. I'd pay higher taxes and put up with more snow for that.

Re:Oh Canada

[Genwil]

And our taxes aren't even all that much higher when you add up all your state and local taxes. Plus a study has shown that citizens earning up to $85k/yr get back services worth more than that. We also live longer and do better in almost any social stat you can think of. But not to sound smug: we are far from perfect, and 30% of us seem hell-bent on voting for a party determined to be as Republican as they can.

Re:Oh Canada

[plalonde2]

So you also clearly don't keep health insurance for your family, don't benefit from (in no particular order) police services, fire departments, curb-side trash removal, winter snow removal, labor regulation, environmental regulation, judicial services, etc.

Why are so many people willfully ignorant of what services modern governments pay for from their taxes?

Re:Oh Canada

[anthonyfk]

Yes, this is a lot like universal healthcare: it's a government unreasonably telling private people what transactions they CANNOT engage in (private insurance in Canada is illegal).

Um, no? (One of many.)

Re:Oh Canada

[dkleinsc]

I find that difficult to believe especially since I barely use any government services.

I call BS on that one. Chances are extremely good that you've done at least some of these in the last year:
  - Purchased food inspected by the government to ensure that it's unlikely to give you food poisoning, and that the nutritional information listed on the side of the container is accurate. Or purchased food from a restaurant which had been inspected to ensure that there weren't cockroaches all over the place (among other things).
  - Purchased gasoline from a pump that had been inspected to ensure that 1 gallon of price = 1 gallon of fuel.
  - Put money into a bank knowing that the bank was required by law to give it back to you if you asked for it, and would still be yours even if the bank went under (assuming it was less than $100,000).
  - Engaged in a transaction on an SEC-regulated market.
  - Taken advantage of a 401(k) or IRA.
  - Relied on the military and police for protection against any really serious attack (not just one criminal going after your property, but an organized assault with bombs and missiles). You may have also called your emergency services for help with a criminal, a fire, an injury, or other hazards.
  - Made use of a government water system (not necessarily at home).
  - Taken a walk or ride or swim in a public park of some kind.
  - Ridden on or flown an aircraft that had been regulated to ensure that it was extremely unlikely to crash.
  - Breathed air that wasn't super-polluted because government regulations prevented companies from just spewing out nasty particulate matter.

I can keep going if you like. The point is, most of the really useful stuff your government does at various levels is not readily visible but affects you every day.

Re:Oh Canada

[bigdaisy]

OK, but apart from police services, fire departments, curb-side trash removal, winter snow removal, labor regulation, environmental regulation and judicial services, WHAT HAS THE CANADIAN GOVERNMENT EVER DONE FOR US?

Re:Oh Canada

[dkleinsc]

Sure it does.

- You probably eat at least 1000 meals or so over the course of the year (that's a little less than 3 meals a day). A reasonable guess would be about 5% of those meals would be dangerous to eat, and would result in an average medical bill or last pay of $250 (most would be less than that, a few would be a lot more than that), for a total cost of $12,500.
- Let's say you drive a vehicle that gets 25 mpg, and drive 10,000 miles per year, and are thus purchasing 400 gallons of fuel for a cost of $1000 (that's about $2.50 per gallon). However, the gas station owner bilks you because there's no inspection, so you end up actually paying $1500, so the government inspection just saved you $500.
- For banking, let's say you had a 15% chance of having deposits of $30,000 in one of the banks that failed. That gives you an average loss of $4500.
- For securities, let's go with about a 11% chance that you lose your investment to a con man without regulation, and a 1% chance that you'd lose your investment to Bernie Madoff under regulation. If you invest, say, $40,000, your government just saved you on average $4000.

I'm already above $20K, and not even through the list.

Re:Oh Canada

[mandelbr0t]

All of the advantages of modern America without all the ultra-right-wing bullshit and wars.

Not really. I have become increasingly distressed at the direction Canadian politics have headed. The only thing saving the politicians from selling Canada to the United States wholesale is this minority government. The problem with this is that it paralyzes the government, and generally lets things be run by big business, which is precisely what is wrong with the United States.

Re:Oh Canada

[rbrander]

Well, your throat hasn't been slit and your rural home taken by foreign invaders, because of the Army, or marauding gangs out of "Road Warrior", because the justice system puts criminals in jail if they start to form them. Nothing in your house has electrocuted you and the house hasn't blown up or fallen down because the government imposes standards on vendors of everything from copper wire and gas appliances to lumber.

And most public debt is taken out to pay for large, slow-payback infrastructure like the $5M/mile roads out to your house that we city people don't use. Perhaps you got this way because you insisted on living outside the family home in a tent while your father sat inside, "wasting" 40% of his income on the non-productive activity of paying off the home mortgage, which is the exact financial equivalent of most national debts.

Gaining My Support

[whisper_jeff]

I'm a Liberal and have been since I started voting. For the most part, I sympathized with the NDP (since they are a left party and I am similarly left in most of my views) but just didn't think most of their agendas were in line with my interests and goals. Of late, however, they have taken new "modern" issues very seriously and are coming out on the side I support, which is to say the side of the populace rather than corporate overlords. As the Liberals languish in a bygone era and the Conservatives drive further towards a system that I loathe (and all other options simply not worth considering unless I've already put a bullet in my head), I find myself becoming increasingly inclined to vote NDP in upcoming elections. Kudos to them and I hope they keep forcing the other parties to seriously consider consumer rights as various subjects are discussed and debated.

Bill Proposes Canadian Cellphone Unlocking Rights

[Hognoxious]

Ted, however, is against it on the grounds that it's totally bogus.

A letter I sent to my NDP representative 8/25/09

[Lythrdskynrd]

I sent this letter to my local NDP representative 8/25/09

I am writing you due to my concern and displeasure with what I feel are unacceptable, anti-competitive practices in Canada's mobile phone industry.

Foremost among my concerns is the practice of "Cell Phone Network Locking". Cellular phones are expensive pieces of equipment. Consumers nowadays can expect to either pay hundreds of dollars or be required to lock themselves in to a three year contract in order to get a handset subsidized by their network provider.

I understand and respect the network's need to protect their investment in terms of the "minimum contract time", but my problem arises at the end of the contract term (or immediately, in the case of the consumer who purchases their hardware outright).

Networks sell their hardware in a "Network Locked" state. This means that a phone purchased from Rogers will only work on Rogers owned networks, Bell only with Bell and so on... If a consumer who owns their phone outright is in any way unsatisfied with their service or have to switch providers for any reason, they are forced to abandon their hardware and "start again" with a new and expensive handset or enter another long contract.

Modern cell phones will typically cost $500 but can climb to almost $1000 for top-of-the-line hardware.

A recent article in the news cites Canada's cell phone rates as being amongst the world's most expensive (http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2009/08/11/canada-cellphone-rates-expensive-oecd.html).

Though many countries do not have laws regarding the practice of SIM locking, a number of countries do seem to have been able to strike a fair balance between consumer protection and corporate profits.

I would urge you to consider pursuing Canadian regulations like those described in the following countries: Brazil, Denmark, Finland, France, Hong Kong, Italy, Netherlands, Singapore and Spain. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIM_lock) All of these countries have regulations that in one way or another allow the consumer to freely own their handset after they have paid for it. Often there is some fair and reasonable period of protection for the company.

Whether it be like Hong Kong's "until the phone is paid for", or Denmark's "Six Months" isn't really an issue for me, but for the time being it seems that relying on Canadian providers to voluntarily provide unlock codes to consumers is not working. I believe a legislative implement will be what is best for Canadians.

Competition is good for the consumer as is choice, allowing customers who have paid for their hardware to choose which provider to get their service from will hopefully improve our situation.

A second issue which seems to be getting coverage elsewhere is the move to charge consumers for receiving text messages. I am strongly against this as it opens the door for consumers to be forced into paying "Junk Mail".

Although I'll admit that I'm not necessarily an NDP supporter regularly, I am certainly in agreement with their current "I'm Against The Text Message Cash Grab" campaign that they seem to be running (Even if the language is a bit inflammatory for my tastes, the message is clear). Should you find yourself in a position to suppourt a bill on this issue, I would be pleased if you did.

Thank you very much for your time,

And here we are nearly 10 Months later and they're introducing a bill?

Could it be possible that the political system actually works? Surely there's some other explanation. Please, Oh Please, let there be some other explanation... I'd hate to be forced into voting for the NDP as the only party that isn't completely incompetent.

Re:Awesome except for one small thing.

[The Evil Twin]

Telus and Bell built a JOINT network. It's the same 3G network operating on 850Mhz & 1900Mhz.
Their CDMA Network is on the way out and will not be upgraded.
Rogers also has a 3G network operating on 850Mhz & 1900Mhz.

So, you have the nations three biggest carriers operating on the same frequencies of 850Mhz & 1900Mhz HSPA(+).
The only thing not compatible is the first and second gen networks.

The only carriers that this doesn't affect are Mobilicy and Wind.
a. because they don't have contracts and in case of Wind, will unlock your phone (after 3 months) (not sure about mobilicity)
b. they are on the AWS band and are only compatible with each other. (1700Mhz/2100Mhz)

Re:Awesome except for one small thing.

[anethema]

You're generally wrong.

Telus runs two networks. Their new HSPA+ (21mbps) network runs on both 850 and 1900 spectrum.

Rogers has both GSM AND HSPA/UMTS on 850 and 1900. Generally their 3G HSPA stuff is on 850 while the 2.5G EDGE is on 1900 but this is changing in many rual centers.

You can take an iPhone for example, and work perfectly fine on Telus, Bell, or Rogers (provided it is unlocked which they are from the Apple Store up here).

The particular phone you gave an example for was a bad one as well. The N900 has 2.5G EDGE/GSM on all Canadian frequencies. But it's 3G is only on the AWS band, which is T-Mobile in the USA or WIND Mobile here in Canada. You're also wrong about the SIM, Bell and Telus (and Nokia..what?) have their GSM network which has SIM cards like any other.

Telus/Bell still run their CDMA network but it is generatlly depreciated and not many phones are sold for it any longer.

SO basically there is no incompatible bullshit other than the info in your post. LTE will be welcome of course.