Slashdot Mirror


The End of Free

The Atlantic has up an insightful piece from its print edition called Closing the Digital Frontier. Michael Hirschorn takes readers through a jaundiced version of the familiar story of the rise and dominance of the "Information wants to be free" meme, then claims that the era of freedom is now over. "...the phrase Information wants to be free... became perhaps the most powerful meme of the past quarter century; so powerful, in fact, that multibillion-dollar corporations destroyed their own businesses at its altar. ... But now, it seems, things are changing all over again. The shift of the digital frontier from the Web, where the browser ruled supreme, to the smart phone, where the app and the pricing plan now hold sway, signals a radical shift from openness to a degree of closed-ness that would have been remarkable even before 1995. ... It’s far from a given that this shift will generate the kinds of revenue media companies are used to: for under-30s whelped on free content, the prospect of paying hundreds or thousands of dollars yearly for print, audio, and video (on expensive new devices that require paying AT&T $30 a month) is not going to be an easy sell. Yet lack of uptake by young people will hardly stop the rush to apps. There’s too much potential upside."

348 comments

  1. I Disagree with Some Parts of This Article by eldavojohn · · Score: 5, Interesting
    I found it interesting that the piece went to such great lengths to talk about the original spirit of openness on the internet yet then says:

    The open-source mentality, in theory if not always in practice, proved useful for the tech and Internet worlds. Facebook and Twitter achieved massive scale quickly by creating an open system accessible to outside developers, though that openness is at times more about branding than anything else—as Twitter’s fellow travelers are now finding out.

    As Diaspora and a number of other projects are illustrating, Facebook is far from openness. The API, in my opinion, is little more than a glimpse of what actually goes on inside the behemoth that knows all.

    This article seems to be spot on at times and just completely at odds with how I see things at others like:

    Even so, Google still needs for the Web, however it’s accessed, to remain central—because without contextual search advertising, Google ceases to matter. Smart phones in general, and the iPad more pointedly, are not driven by search.

    (emphasis mine) How incredibly shortsighted. During the World Cup game yesterday, I used my smart phone to search for no less than five pieces of information. And what are iAds? Nothing more than a contextual advertising model based on what you've downloaded as I see it. Sounds awfully similar to Google's model.

    Now, instead of farmers versus ranchers, we have Apple versus Google. In retrospect, for all the talk of an unencumbered sphere, of a unified planetary soul, the colonization and exploitation of the Web was a foregone conclusion. The only question now is who will own it.

    That's not the only question, it's merely the most monetarily important. I can think of tons of questions to go with your analogy. Who are the Native Americans now? Will one "owner" arise or can multiple coexist like the farmers and ranchers? How much will the government intervene and when? After this is all hashed out will there ever be peace? When it's all said and done, what's the next frontier that will be fought over for profit or will there ever be another one?

    --
    My work here is dung.
    1. Re:I Disagree with Some Parts of This Article by commodore64_love · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I don't disagree. I've been saying for a couple days now that Free TV is dying, to be replaced by a pay-to-see model. And now this guy comes out with this:

      >>>from the Web, where the browser ruled supreme, to the smart phone, where the app and the pricing plan now hold sway, signals a radical shift from openness to a degree of closed-ness that would have been remarkable even before 1995.
      >>>

      The corporations are leading us down a path towards $1000-to-2000 per year bills just so we can see the latest episode of Stargate, or hear the news, or get a warning about severe weather. What was once free, they are locking-up behind paywalls and ye are cheering it along as technological "advancement" when it's actually the opposite.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    2. Re:I Disagree with Some Parts of This Article by tomhudson · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I don't disagree. I've been saying for a couple days now that Free TV is dying, to be replaced by a pay-to-see model. And now this guy comes out with this:

      Free TV is not dead. Get a $20 antenna, and you can get nice 1920x1080 HD TV off the air for *gasp* free.

      People who don;t remember history are doomed to repeat it.

      Back in the previous century, people were claiming that the Internet would have to go to a paid-content model because there was no way that it could remain free. It's still mostly free, because any time that someone tries to erect a pay-wall, someone else says "here's my chance to take away their customers."

      What would happen tomorrow if 99% of all web sites went to a paywall? The 1% that didn't would replace them as THE top sites within a day.

      It's the same thing with anything else, including mobile apps. The free ones are often better than the paid ones, and the price is right.

      The article is wishful thinking ... just like Kevin McBride, when he says

      Software should not be "free." In this new day and age of corporate control of the world, IP rights are an important barrier of protection that help the little guy. Big companies mostly don't need IP rights, because they can get their way through force and market power. Small companies and individual developers need strong IP rights so the fruits of their labor are not commoditized by big companies. ...

      ChinAmerica - part 2

      Guess who now has the second-most IP addresses in the world? China. And they have more people with cell phones than the entire US population - and that number is increasing. Put up too many pay-walls, and China and India, which together have more than 1/3 the worlds' population, will p0wn your ass!

      Don't think it can happen? GM already sells more cars in China than in the US.

    3. Re:I Disagree with Some Parts of This Article by commodore64_love · · Score: 3, Insightful

      >>>Free TV is not dead. Get a $20 antenna, and you can get nice 1920x1080 HD TV off the air for *gasp* free.

      (1) I said "dying" not dead. (2) You've not heard the news? FCC's Broadband Plan will sell off the remaining TV channels to ATT, Verizon, and other cellular companies, and Obama has announced he fully supports the plan and wants to implement it ASAP. (3) No free TV won't be completely dead, but with only 5-6 channels left per city it might as well will be.
      .

      >>>What would happen tomorrow if 99% of all web sites went to a paywall?

      You are correct in your previous analysis, but they aren't erecting the paywall at the website because they know it would fail. They are erecting it at your home by basically forcing you to subscribe to ATT/comcast/whoever to get your television or news or internet. The free services are slowly but surely getting destroyed by the FCC and the corporations it serves.

      I fully expect that by 2020 I'll either have a ~$100/month bill to see videos, or else have no access to them. It's ridiculous.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    4. Re:I Disagree with Some Parts of This Article by fjanss · · Score: 3, Insightful
      The article is largely based on the analogy :

      "In a smart essay in the journal Fast Capitalism in 2005, Jack Shuler shows how similar the rhetoric of the 1990s digital frontier was to that of the 19th-century frontier era."

      That may be true. But there is an important difference the article does not see. The 19th-century frontier may have "seemed" infinite, but the information space (or noosphere) is for all practical purposes infinite.

      What many corporations try to do is block the access to that infinite space, and make us forget that it exists. And make us pay to access their walled-in spaces.

      They might still succeed, but only through "legal" trickery, not because of any natural limitation, such as the large but finite area or the "west".

    5. Re:I Disagree with Some Parts of This Article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Accidentally modded your post as Troll when I meant Insightful. Opened the drop-list, scrolled my browser window, and your post was modded Troll. Bad UI design, Slashdot.

    6. Re:I Disagree with Some Parts of This Article by jav1231 · · Score: 1

      "GM already sells more cars in China than in the US."

      While that is daunting on the one hand, on the other I won't by GM cars or trucks. They forfeited they're soul to the government. Yes, I know this is OT.

      More OT, the idea that cellphones and appstores are going to essentially reshape the Internet is not just short-sighted, it's a form of tunnel vision. Eventually people are going to want better apps. And they're still going to go back to their computers where some of these apps won't even exist. The Internet is the highway, the rail system for these apps. The apps are not the system. This is more a question of what is going to hold the lion's share of the market, internet apps and services or closed-system cell-accessed apps. There will always be limitations on smartphones that a computer will overcome by pure size. Work gets done on computers and ultimately it's those applications that drive the larger economy. Cellphone apps are merely supportive. They're the pharmaceuticals and dietary supplements to the overall tools of technology.

    7. Re:I Disagree with Some Parts of This Article by pinkushun · · Score: 2, Informative

      I'd like to add that TFA reads like Michael, the writer, also confuses the meaning of free software.

      “Free software” is a matter of liberty, not price. To understand the concept, you should think of “free” as in “free speech,” not as in “free beer.”; Free software is a matter of the users' freedom to run, copy, distribute, study, change and improve the software.

      [ref]

      I fear many people who are locked into proprietary OS's misinterprets this ideology, not being exposed to the other side. If this is the case in TFA, then the whole premise for TFA is a fallacy.

    8. Re:I Disagree with Some Parts of This Article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The corporations are leading us down a path towards $1000-to-2000 per year bills just so we can see the latest episode of Stargate, or hear the news, or get a warning about severe weather

      That's just great and they are free to do what they want. I'm sure it will be an inconvenience when they jack up prices etc but they need us more than we need them. When push comes to shove they can take their overpriced content and stuff it. People in this country have been fucked over by the corporate robber barons and money is tight for most of us so good luck wth that.

    9. Re:I Disagree with Some Parts of This Article by rrohbeck · · Score: 1

      Free TV is not dead. Get a $20 antenna, and you can get nice 1920x1080 HD TV off the air for *gasp* free.

      Where can I download an ad blocker?

    10. Re:I Disagree with Some Parts of This Article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Granted this is a thought experiment, but there is no way that the 1% that didn't would replace them as THE top sites within a day (assuming the 1% aren't the giants to start with). The number of visits only to discover the paywall would keep the current top sites there for at least a week and possibly a month. Similarly, finding that 1% that lacks the paywall might take even longer than that - how many sites do you visit in a day? What is the probability of even one of those not being behind a paywall if this happened? Especially true if 99% of the search engines (or really just Google, Bing, Yahoo, and whoever the next 10 biggest are) were in that 99%. I suspect that the threshold for Paywalls to actually take over would probably be a 90-95% of the internet, because at that point, Joe Sixpack will be convinced that it is no longer free and be willing to pay a small fee for each thing (like Cable, this can eventually be cranked up like the proverbial frog in boiling water).

    11. Re:I Disagree with Some Parts of This Article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here. Next question?

    12. Re:I Disagree with Some Parts of This Article by zmollusc · · Score: 2, Informative

      No free TV won't be completely dead, but with only 5-6 channels left per city it might as well will be.

      Hey, sonny, I remember when there were just 3 tv channels and most of the content was of little or no interest to me. Recently I subscribed to assloads of tv channels and found there were less hours of interesting content than when there were 3 channels. I soon unsubscribed. $100 per month for TV? Pffft!
      TV is dying. Paid TV is dying. It is suicide.

      --
      They whose government reduces their essential liberties for temporary security, receive neither liberty nor security.
    13. Re:I Disagree with Some Parts of This Article by countertrolling · · Score: 1

      ...only 5-6 channels left per city...

      You're making me all nostalgic...

      --
      For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
    14. Re:I Disagree with Some Parts of This Article by StikyPad · · Score: 1

      Free TV is not dead. Get a $20 antenna...

      </irony>

    15. Re:I Disagree with Some Parts of This Article by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      Why even other with free to air or cable. Buy your content and create your own channel, $100 per month buys a lot of content, especially endless specials, in a few years you'll have all the recorded content you could be bothered with. That leaves only live content, which is best served by the internet, which gives you a choice of viewpoints and a choice of depth and a choice to ignore what ever you want to ignore.

      Free to air will out last cable, the main reason to allow cable service providers to buy free to air bandwidth, before the internet kills them off.

      As for closed networks, sure they all have their moments in the sun but they all die, best example is of course DIVX http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIVX_(Digital_Video_Express) becoming DivX http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divx (only the name survived), open always defeats closed ie. "IBM PC compatible" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_compatible versus everyone else.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    16. Re:I Disagree with Some Parts of This Article by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      No irony. The $20 antenna will improve your reception, but it's not required. I just use some crappy old rabbit-ears antenna that I had lying around. You could probably get a pair for nearly free at Goodwill. Or you could just use a piece of wire.

      The ideal is one of the newer $100 rooftop antennas designed for DTV, but if you're in a city, you could easily get by with a jury-rigged piece of wire.

      Since watching TV already requires actually buying a TV, it'll never be completely free, unless someone gives you a TV, or you steal one. But the idea that you need to pay a continuous monthly charge for access to TV is ludicrous, and is what the parent poster is really disputing.

    17. Re:I Disagree with Some Parts of This Article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Damn Americans... most other countries only have 5-6 channels (per country) of free TV. And in Europe you have to pay the telly tax to get any "free" TV at all. There are free newspapers, free wifi, etc. If you live on a rural farm, too bad.

      However I hope we will get a true distributed internet within my lifetime.

    18. Re:I Disagree with Some Parts of This Article by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      You could have left it ... I have karma to burn, and I *know* how bad the UI is. I feel your pain :-)

    19. Re:I Disagree with Some Parts of This Article by shmlco · · Score: 1

      "Free TV is not dead. Get a $20 antenna, and you can get nice 1920x1080 HD TV off the air for *gasp* free."

      Free??? Right. "Free" TV is paid for by advertising dollars, whose costs are factored into every product you buy. Palm and Sprint pay $20 million dollars for a Super Bowl ad, which results in a Pre and Sprint costing us that much more.

      Not to mention the time you waste watching 20 minutes of advertising per hour of television.

      TANSTAAFL (There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.)

      --
      Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
    20. Re:I Disagree with Some Parts of This Article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Free TV is not dead. Get a $20 antenna, and you can get nice 1920x1080 HD TV off the air for *gasp* free.

      False. You get it for the cost of being subjected to ever-annoying TV ads every 5 minutes. Still not anywhere near gratis free.

    21. Re:I Disagree with Some Parts of This Article by StikyPad · · Score: 1

      Right, right, it was just a lame joke of opportunity. Forgive the mischaracterization.

      We now resume your regularly scheduled programming.

    22. Re:I Disagree with Some Parts of This Article by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      Free TV is not dead. Get a $20 antenna, and you can get nice 1920x1080 HD TV off the air for *gasp* free. False. You get it for the cost of being subjected to ever-annoying TV ads every 5 minutes. Still not anywhere near gratis free.

      I thought those breaks were there so I could go to the bathroom / kitchen/put away the laundry / etc.

    23. Re:I Disagree with Some Parts of This Article by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      The idea behind advertising is to allow producers of products to get enough market share so that they can spread the fixed costs among more units, keeping them economically competitive.

    24. Re:I Disagree with Some Parts of This Article by ShakaUVM · · Score: 1

      >>Free TV is not dead. Get a $20 antenna, and you can get nice 1920x1080 HD TV off the air for *gasp* free.

      There's no 1080p broadcast signals (yet). 1080i is the best you can get in the states right now.

    25. Re:I Disagree with Some Parts of This Article by tomhudson · · Score: 1
      Read my post. I never said 1080p.

      1080i on a 50" 600hz plasma is gorgeous.

      And pulling the signals off the airwaves with an old antenna instead of paying a cable or satellite provider - priceless!

    26. Re:I Disagree with Some Parts of This Article by Eivind · · Score: 1

      Yeah. And that's ridicolously expensive, not close to free at all.

      At my normal hourly rate, 20 minutes is worth aproximately $30 (after taxes), and the same goes for my wife.

      If we watch a 2 hour movie with ads, it tend to have like half an hour of ads - the time wasted in advertising has a value of aproximately $100. Some of the breaks can be used for going to the toilet or suchlike, so it's not -quite- that bad in practice, but even if half the breaks are spent doing other stuff, you're still looking at a $50 loss.

      $50 for a single movie, can not be described as "free", in any way shape or form. Advertising is a fantastically inefficient way of financing something.

      Rather than the two of us waste an hour for ads, it's a lot more efficient for me to work 15 minutes longer, and buy the DVD.

    27. Re:I Disagree with Some Parts of This Article by ShakaUVM · · Score: 1

      1080i is 1920x1080/2 = 1920x540 resolution.

    28. Re:I Disagree with Some Parts of This Article by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      1080i is 1920x1080/2 = 1920x540 resolution.

      Want to try again? It's a full 1080 lines of vertical resolution, just that it's sent interleaved (that's what the "i" stands for) - odd lines first, then even lines (or vice versa), same as, for example, an interleaved jpeg. It's to save channel bandwidth. You get the full 1080 lines of vertical resolution, just 30 times a second instead of 60.

    29. Re:I Disagree with Some Parts of This Article by flyneye · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry you are looking too closely at the details of the story. Step back a bit. I see yet another corporate executive with bucketloads of undeserved self confidence in his ability to predict business trends. He comforts himself with his delusion that he "knows" that the entity threatening his world is losing power rather than the reality that it will soon supplant him due to his inability to evolve.
                Didn't we just have an article about the Prince formerly known as an artist saying the "internet is over". Funny old rock stars say funny things, but what do you want them to do as they lose relevance, flip burgers? It's sad really, rock stars and perhaps corporate suits, both lack the skills to function in the real world outside their position once the fat lady sings. Perhaps we can start a fund to rehabilitate them.

      --
      *Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
    30. Re:I Disagree with Some Parts of This Article by Phoghat · · Score: 1

      I'm a little hard of hearing in one ear and made the mistake of clicking on a Google ad for an hearing aid. Now everywhere I turn there are hearing aid ads

      --
      Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
    31. Re:I Disagree with Some Parts of This Article by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      Okay this is the third one of my posts modded -1 troll or -1 flamebait.

      DEAR MODERATORS:

      Clicking -1 is not how you say "I disagree." The method of saying I disagree is to click reply and SAY "I disagree". Your job is not to mod people's posts into invisibility (0) or (-1). Your job is not censorship. It's also in the moderation rules, if you bother to read them.

      SIGNED,
      SLASHDOTTERS

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    32. Re:I Disagree with Some Parts of This Article by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>DIVX becoming DivX (only the name survived)

      Two separate companies.. Not related in any way.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    33. Re:I Disagree with Some Parts of This Article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What I see is the tradesters of the world and their banksters are increasing the amount of propaganda messages. These messages are designed to convince the people of the world and to refer to when dealing with legislators that a very few people should be allowed to have access to the very many pieces of information the SENMACEs {senmace.com] have acquired from the very few people who actually invented something very significant.

      In other words the tax payers pay to educate all of us, that creates the market for information, so it is free.
      But when one of us, in the course of our normal employment or self endeavor, invents by chance, that which most of us would also have invented, had we been the one asked to work on the problem, the value in that solution is transformed into private property that it can be bought and sold [important to those who already have all of the money; because by purchasing the privatized, rule of law protected, solutions they control they market and block competition at the same time]. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.
      SENMACEs are then enabled to acquire the product of the mind of one of us, to force from the pockets of all of us, profit.
      Privatizing the selected best parts of our pubic commons for the benefit of the non human SENMACE explains the wealth gap between the haves and the have nots.

           

    34. Re:I Disagree with Some Parts of This Article by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>>>Free TV is not dead. Get a $20 antenna...
      >>
      >> /irony

      Think of it as an installation fee like cable and satellite and internet companies charge, but instead of paying $60-100 a month you pay $0.00 each month for service.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    35. Re:I Disagree with Some Parts of This Article by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>"Free" TV is paid for by advertising dollars, whose costs are factored into every product you buy

      Then stop buying products. Then Free TV truly will be free for you. Of course you do still need food, but you can buy from local farmers/stores that don't advertise on the set.

      Besides over in the UK people pay ~$300 per year to support ad-free TV, but has it stopped the ads? Nope. The companies still run them and still include the cost in the prices, so UK citizens are basically paying twice - the fee plus the ad dollars
      .

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    36. Re:I Disagree with Some Parts of This Article by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>1080i is 1920x1080/2 = 1920x540 resolution.

      Oh look. He hasn't taken basic math yet. ;-) Yes interlaced tv sends 1920x540 images, but they are overlapped (odd lines first; then even lines) to be perceived as 1920x1080. It's the same way our eyes perceive a 24 frame film as continuous motion.

          ALSO: There are a lot of sets that convert the 1080i/60 into 1080p/30 so there's no real difference in quality.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    37. Re:I Disagree with Some Parts of This Article by ShakaUVM · · Score: 1

      Half the information, buddy, is half the information.

      You're getting two frames of 1920x540 data, with a bonus of having the image break up if it moves too fast.

    38. Re:I Disagree with Some Parts of This Article by ShakaUVM · · Score: 1

      If it actually did get perceived at 1920x1080, 1080i wouldn't be as horrible a standard as it actually is.

      Interleaved video should have been hauled out behind the barn and shot 40 years ago.

      If your eyes perceive 24fps as continuous motion, either your eyes are bad or my eyes are especially sensitive to flicker.

    39. Re:I Disagree with Some Parts of This Article by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      Your eye can't see faster than 30 frames a second, or were all those decades watching TV an illusion? I think not.

    40. Re:I Disagree with Some Parts of This Article by ShakaUVM · · Score: 1

      The human eye can see noticeably faster than 30fps. 30fps will give you the illusion of motion, but as anyone who has used a CRT before can tell you, refresh rates below 120Hz are painfully noticeable. I clocked my eyes refreshing somewhere between 500 and 1000Hz by taking a known 60Hz LED source, moving my eye a certain arc length in a certain amount of time, and counting the number of discrete afterimage dots on my retina.

      I get distracted by the flickering of those damn LED lights they put everywhere these days, from Christmas tree lights to displays on my fridge, but the worst is on car tail-lights. A lot of people can't see it (see http://www.electronicspoint.com/car-led-tail-lights-strobe-rate-too-slow-t37678.html for a discussion between people bothered by the strobing of LEDs and people who can't see it), but for me it's like flicking a light on and off repeatedly in my face. Caddies are the worst, IMO.

      That's neither here nor there, though. The reason 1080i sucks is due to deinterlacing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deinterlacing), which was and is and always will be a hack.

      1080i doesn't magically give you a 1080p signal.

    41. Re:I Disagree with Some Parts of This Article by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      , refresh rates below 120Hz are painfully noticeable

      Only if you have other sources of intermittent lighting, such as fluorescent lights, or other monitors, that give a "beat frequency".

      I clocked my eyes refreshing somewhere between 500 and 1000Hz by taking a known 60Hz LED source, moving my eye a certain arc length in a certain amount of time, and counting the number of discrete afterimage dots on my retina.

      The eye doesn't work that way. Ask a biologist to explain.

      That's neither here nor there, though. The reason 1080i sucks is due to deinterlacing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deinterlacing), which was and is and always will be a hack.

      And movies are shot at 24fps. so your argument fails, unless you think that they can "magically" restore the missing frames - they use interlacing, but they call it 3:2 pulldown. And this ignores that even bluray video is lossy to begin with.

      Technical specifications of bluray video

      "High-definition video may be stored on BD-ROMs with up to 1920×1080 pixel resolution at up to 59.94 fields per second, if interlaced. Alternatively, progressive scan can go up to 1920×1080 pixel resolution at 24 frames per second, or up to 1280x720 at up to 59.94 frames per second

      So, your bluray video is interlaced at 1080x60fps. At 24fps it's also interlaced to show at 60hz or greater using a 3:2 pulldown. So no, I'm not "losing" anything at 1080i.

    42. Re:I Disagree with Some Parts of This Article by ShakaUVM · · Score: 1

      >>Only if you have other sources of intermittent lighting, such as fluorescent lights, or other monitors, that give a "beat frequency".

      Nope, not true.

      >>The eye doesn't work that way. Ask a biologist to explain.

      I've studied the neuroscience of vision. Have you? You're probably thinking of persistence of vision, saccadic masking, attention blink, or other related phenomena as being why you persist in believing the urban legend that "the human eye cannot see faster than 24Hz or so". Look up the wikipedia articles on the above, or read http://www.pisavisionlab.org/downloads/BBRReview96.pdf for a good overview on the subject of saccadic masking.

      >>And movies are shot at 24fps. so your argument fails, unless you think that they can "magically" restore the missing frames - they use interlacing

      Wrong again. Movies are certainly not interlaced. They use frame rate doubling in theatres (showing the same frame twice) because pretty much everyone is capable of seeing flicker at 24Hz. And there's a lot of people that can see flicker at much higher speeds. Even the peudo-48fps used in movie theatres bugs me.

      >>At 24fps it's also interlaced to show at 60hz or greater using a 3:2 pulldown

      If you're talking about movies on Bluray, they are typically recorded at 1080p24, which is progressive scan, not interlaced.

      >>So no, I'm not "losing" anything at 1080i.

      Deinterlacing and reverse telecline techniques are never perfect, and always hackish. They always result in scenarios where you get tearing or flicker. You don't magically get a 1080p signal from a 1080i broadcast.

    43. Re:I Disagree with Some Parts of This Article by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      If you're talking about movies on Bluray, they are typically recorded at 1080p24, which is progressive scan, not interlaced.

      Don't be an idiot! Your TV doesn't show movies at 24 frames. 3:2 pulldown IS interlacing, and if you're watching a bluray at 1080 (even 1080p), it's been interlaced.

    44. Re:I Disagree with Some Parts of This Article by ShakaUVM · · Score: 1

      >>Your TV doesn't show movies at 24 frames

      Your TV might not. Mine has a native 24fps mode. Likewise, all 120Hz and 240Hz TVs can display 24Hz signals without conversion.

      >>. 3:2 pulldown IS interlacing, and if you're watching a bluray at 1080 (even 1080p), it's been interlaced.

      Progressive-scan DVDs and Blurays on a progressive-scan monitor or TV should never go through the interlacing process, which avoids the artifacts introduced through interlacing.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24p#24p_vs._NTSC_video

    45. Re:I Disagree with Some Parts of This Article by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      Mine also displays 24p with no problems - however, the refresh rate is 600hz., not 24hz. It divides evenly - displaying each frame 25 times. Someone with a 120hz display can also display 24p correctly, displaying each frame 5 times (or they can choose to use the motion interpolation feature). However, anyone with a 60hz refresh rate is screwed - 24p requires a pulldown interlacing, because it's either that, or display one frame 2x, the next 3x, the next 2x, the next 3x - and that looks awful so nobody does it.

      So unless your tv is 120, 240, 480, or 600 hz, you cannot display non-interlaced 24p.

      Additionally, the picture - in ALL cases, has artifacts. It's always stored with lossy compression - and you get a lot more loss when there's more motion - look at the motion block encoding algorithms.

      Third, if you're getting your signal through satellite or cable, it's going to look crappier than an OTA signal, because the already-compressed stream has been recompressed to conserve bandwidth - so a free 1080i signal can look better than the 1080p that you pay for.

    46. Re:I Disagree with Some Parts of This Article by ShakaUVM · · Score: 1

      >>So unless your tv is 120, 240, 480, or 600 hz, you cannot display non-interlaced 24p.

      Mine does a native 24p mode (well, 48Hz mode) called TruCinema 24, which can display 24p without stutter.

      It is also possible to display progressive scan DVDs on progressive scan televisions WITHOUT interlacing. They reduplicate entire frames, instead of splitting it into fields, ala 2:3 pulldown. (If the DVD holds interlaced video, of course, this is not possible.)

      >>Additionally, the picture - in ALL cases, has artifacts.

      Yes, but interlacing artifacts are especially pernicious. They are the ones that create the horrible zig-zag patterns. MPEG artifacts tend to create the blocky/pixellated patterns, and are usually unnoticeable in broadcast or DVD television unless they take a hit in transit somewhere.

    47. Re:I Disagree with Some Parts of This Article by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      TruCinema is just frame doubling - so what it means is that the total amount of video info is 24 frames x the current resolution. 1080i @ 60fps gives 30 full frames of info in the same time period - and refreshed at 600hz, it looks gorgeous - far better than 720p, for example.

    48. Re:I Disagree with Some Parts of This Article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I fully expect that by 2020 I'll either have a ~$100/month bill to see videos, or else have no access to them. It's ridiculous.

      Exactly why we need municipal internet. It's basic infrastructure; the corporations can continue earning their meal ticket by innovation instead of political manipulation of the people.

  2. No uptake from young people? by Vectormatic · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Yet lack of uptake by young people will hardly stop the rush to apps. There’s too much potential upside."

    Eh? I thought the entire drive behind the iphone and the appstore is young people... without them apple wouldnt be making money hand over fist, and not everyone and their grandma would be building apps to 'get rich quick'TM

    If young people didnt care about apps, no one would make them, since there wouldnt be any benefit to doing so at all.

    --
    People, what a bunch of bastards
    1. Re:No uptake from young people? by alen · · Score: 1

      apple is making money off young people, not the media. the print/TV media let their advertising models get destroyed and now cry poverty

    2. Re:No uptake from young people? by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>the print/TV media let their advertising models get destroyed and now cry poverty

      Or else charge 3 dollars/year per cable-subscribed home. This is what FOX is now doing, and the other networks are saying "Good idea. We should do the same."

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
  3. Not end to anything, rather, start of rapid change by Mathinker · · Score: 1

    > But now, it seems, things are changing all over again. ...

    If anything, the quoted material in the summary just emphasizes what we all probably understand (except, perhaps, for the youngest among us): that the rhythm of change is beating faster and faster as time goes on.

    > Yet lack of uptake by young people will hardly stop the rush to apps.

    And so, it seems that there will be yet another change --- when those young people become older.

    This isn't the end of anything, especially of "free", rather, it's the start of ever more rapid changes.

    (and yes, I didn't read TFA)...

  4. How Quickly They Forget by sunspot42 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    expensive new devices that require paying AT&T $30 a month

    Wait, $30 a month for Internet service on a $300 phone or $600 tablet? Yeah, that's real steep, as opposed to, say, $30 a month for AOL on a $1,500 Windows 95 PC a decade or so ago.

    The devices are actually a heck of a lot cheaper now than they were when the Internet took off. They're more capable and easier to use, too. Access is no more expensive, and it's wireless. Look for the cost - of both the devices and bandwidth - to continue to decline over time. This will help users to afford quite a bit of content, in the same way folks who cancel their cable TV can afford a Netflix subscription and a substantial number of downloads from iTunes or Amazon and still end up money ahead (and see exactly what they want to see when they want to see it).

    1. Re:How Quickly They Forget by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      $30 a month for AOL

      On the contrary, I quite clearly remember paying $20/month for unlimited dialup in the mid 90s. That was AT&T and Earthlink. I believe AOL was about the same.

      Also, $30 may be your monthly data charge, but AT&T really forces you to pay something like $60/month as a minimum for iPhone service. That's far from a trivial cost for the vast majority of people.

    2. Re:How Quickly They Forget by bluesatin · · Score: 1

      Look for the cost - of both the devices and bandwidth - to continue to decline over time.

      Strangely enough they've actually gone up recently for AT&T and O2, with their 'unlimited' data plans being scrapped.

      Although to be fair the product hasn't really changed much, if at all; they're just being more honest about the limit this time around.

    3. Re:How Quickly They Forget by icebrain · · Score: 1

      in the same way folks who cancel their cable TV can afford a Netflix subscription and a substantial number of downloads from iTunes or Amazon and still end up money ahead (and see exactly what they want to see when they want to see it).

      That's what we did. Wife and I canceled satellite and got smartphones, netflix, and a set of rabbit ears. We pay less per month and get a lot more use out of it. And not nearly as many ads, either.

      --
      The meek may inherit the earth, but the strong shall take the stars.
    4. Re:How Quickly They Forget by captainpanic · · Score: 1

      I believe the point they're trying (but not really achieving) to make is that more stuff used to be free when it was new and online, and we used to pay mostly for the hardware. Music, movies, all kinds of OS projects were often available for free (although often hacked). Big money steps in and does so after calculating a pay-back time.

      I think that most stuff will always be free - hacked, cracked and illegally downloaded perhaps. The main question is simply how much money the average consumer is ready to spend on the digital world, and how much the digital world is willing to give the average consumer for that money.

      The consumer wants all for free, and spend less rather than more unless there's something really special which is worth money. And the industry wants us to spend more money, which we won't do, because we don't have it.

      -- sure, mods me down because I haven't read most of the article ;-)

    5. Re:How Quickly They Forget by lilo_booter · · Score: 1

      Wife and I canceled satellite and got smartphones, netflix, and a set of rabbit ears

      Is this some kinda 'do you think bugs bunny looks cute when he dresses up as a girl' thing which perhaps you shouldn't be telling us about?

    6. Re:How Quickly They Forget by sunspot42 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I quite clearly remember paying $20/month for unlimited dialup in the mid 90s

      With inflation, $20 in 1995 would be around $28 today, which is comparable to the $30 a month data charge for a smartphone. And of course, even today's wireless access is generally faster than dialup was in the mid 1990's.

      Also, $30 may be your monthly data charge, but AT&T really forces you to pay something like $60/month as a minimum for iPhone service. That's far from a trivial cost for the vast majority of people.

      Yes. And in the mid 1990's, you had to have telephone service in order to take advantage of dialup internet providers like AOL. That would have run you at least $20 a month in most markets. Then, if you made a standard amount of long distance calls (including "local" long distance in most large metro areas), you were looking at at least another $20 a month in LD charges. That's $40 for your phone, or about $55 in 2010 money. At $60 a month your cell phone provides you with hundreds of minutes of free long distance calling (unlimited in the late evenings and on weekends) in addition to the convenience of wireless. Not bad for about five extra dollars a month.

    7. Re:How Quickly They Forget by sunspot42 · · Score: 1

      The cost has only gone up for those who exceed the bandwidth of the current plans. Precious few users do, at least at the moment. Presumably the caps will grow as average use grows (and if carriers like AT&T and O2 don't grow the caps, you can bet hungry competitors will).

    8. Re:How Quickly They Forget by eudaemon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Wireless internet access rates are slowly creeping upward. I can only speak to T-mobile as an example, but my blackberry plan was $20/mo. The switch to G1 added $5/mo as my choices were $25/mo without texting or $35/mo with, but that plan is shared with a family plan for voice minutes. Fast forward one year and the carrier discounted Nexus requires an individual plan that totals $70/mo. I paid full price on my Nexus One just to keep my old, cheaper plan. My friend who just bought a Sprint EVO found Sprint charges $29.99/mo for data, but require a separate tethering up-charge to boot, so Sprint is even more expensive than T-Mobile.

      Don't get me wrong - the utility of these phone is such that you are practically carrying a laptop around, but the American data plans are so expensive I'm seriously considering the move from early adopter (owner of a development G1) back to prepaid dumb phone after years of carrying smart phones. A $20 phone with a $100/1000 minute prepaid sim is starting to look pretty good next to a $120/mo cell phone bill.

    9. Re:How Quickly They Forget by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And maybe cell phones are not really "subsidized". Maybe you're actually paying for the phone hardware.

    10. Re:How Quickly They Forget by jedidiah · · Score: 2, Insightful

      > Wait, $30 a month for Internet service on a $300 phone or $600 tablet? Yeah, that's real steep, as opposed to, say, $30 a month for AOL on a $1,500 Windows 95 PC a decade or so ago.

      Regardless of what my Internet service costs per month, it pays for all of the devices connected to my network.

      It doesn't require a separate fee for my Wii, for my 3 media PCs, for my Linux PCs, for my Macs, for the iphones or for the iPad.

      Yes. Compared to that, paying $30 per month for a SINGLE device is infact high way robbery.

      Those stupid little fees add up after awhile. If you can add, you can certainly pick up on this fact. Admittedly, that's a bit of a stretch for some "consumers".

      The level of service you get for $30 per month on an iPhone or iPad also sucks. Sure it's mobile but it's slow and unreliable.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    11. Re:How Quickly They Forget by tomhudson · · Score: 2, Interesting

      With a 2 gig cap before those extra charges kick in, people aren't going to be willing to download too many copies of WIRED at half a gig apiece at $5 a pop - particularly when they can't pass it along to someone else when they're finished with it. And the reason for the hefty size? It was originally developed in flash, and weighed a lot less - then Jobs went and banned flash, and they had to quickly come up with an alternative ...

    12. Re:How Quickly They Forget by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      When the Big Media started out with the movies, a VHS tape of a major motion picture cost you $90. Pay Per View fees for a special event movie might cost you as much as $15.

      Now Walmart has big bins full of movies as low as $5.

      I can gorge myself on Netflix for $10 a month.

      Stuff has gotten much cheaper. The market has seemed to have adjusted to some bit of pressure from somewhere.

      The marginal price of video is still usually zero. This is something that consumers have been made to be used to over
      a VERY VERY long time. This is a situation that didn't just suddenly occur when some mangey guy from MIT decided that
      certain sorts of stuff should be free. Media consumption has been gratis to the consumer since pretty much the dawn
      of mass media in general.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    13. Re:How Quickly They Forget by delinear · · Score: 1

      Meanwhile in the UK the only real option at the time was pay per minute dial up and I regularly had bills averaging a couple hundred pound per month, I don't think free unlimited dial up took off here until 99/00, so to me my £30 per month unlimited data tariff (and a one-off payment of £99 for a phone that's probably much more powerful now than my £1,500 PC was back then) seems entirely reasonable.

    14. Re:How Quickly They Forget by delinear · · Score: 1

      I would suggest, if you intend to download half a gig of data, WiFi might be the better option...

    15. Re:How Quickly They Forget by delinear · · Score: 1

      And as for software, well discounting Apple, there are lots of free apps available (I've not found any task for my Android yet where I have been forced to buy a paid as opposed to a free app), and on the desktop it seems like a pretty golden age for FOSS, even on Windows systems there's a hell of a lot of free open source software available, whereas ten years ago there was far less choice. Really, it seems like the author has looked at one particular distribution model (the walled, paid garden) and assumed all roads lead to that model, whereas I look around and see more free stuff than ever, and even in the most locked down sectors - movies and music - prices have arguably dropped and there are plenty "all you can eat" services for a nominal fee for anyone who consumes a lot of content.

    16. Re:How Quickly They Forget by delinear · · Score: 1

      You realise you can also use that single device on your all encompassing home network? Assuming you could find the device minus a data package (sim only, no contract maybe) there's nothing stopping you using the phone just for calls/text messages and only using the internet when you have wireless available. Alternatively, try taking your PC into town and connecting using your home broadband and you'll instantly see what the limitations are. Of course, in an ideal world I'd love if both my broadband and mobile data packages were somehow tied so I paid once and could use anywhere and with anything, but two fees, one for any device at home and one for any device while roaming (setting my phone as a WiFi access point or tethering) is a reasonable compromise for me.

    17. Re:How Quickly They Forget by Garble+Snarky · · Score: 1

      How is $30/month a reasonable number? I don't have a smartphone, but as I understand it, $30 is probably just the "data" fee - which comes on top of the "voice" fee of $50 or $60. My iphone friends like to claim that they really only pay $30 for the "data" - and yes, I understand that different services make use of several networks, which may have different upkeep costs, etc... but that distinction doesn't really make sense anymore. The "voice" fee is really just a "base" fee, and the amount you're paying for data really is $80 or $90, not $30.

      When I can pay $30/month TOTAL for data access, then that number will be a reasonable comparison...

    18. Re:How Quickly They Forget by alex_vegas · · Score: 1

      Our friend Richard Branson offers us 5GB of mobile broadband with no contract for $60/month. Prepaid cellphone + Maemo netbook with a usb modem seems the way to go to me..

    19. Re:How Quickly They Forget by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wife and I canceled satellite and got smartphones, netflix, and a set of rabbit ears

      Is this some kinda 'do you think bugs bunny looks cute when he dresses up as a girl' thing which perhaps you shouldn't be telling us about?

      LOL! No, he means rabbit Ears, as in the North American colloquial term for an indoor setup of a dipole antenna on top of a TV set.

    20. Re:How Quickly They Forget by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      It depends tho.

      You can "rent" a movie earlier for $4. Then later for $1.
      Buying it will cost you $15 today... or $5 without special features a few months later.

      There are clear signs that even the media we "buy" won't be playable within our lifetimes.

      However, netflix does appear to be one of the ways to go now.

      A lot of this stuff just prices itself out of my interest.

      Cable at $100 a month is $12,000 in 10 years- that's a new car.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    21. Re:How Quickly They Forget by commodore64_love · · Score: 3, Insightful

      >>>With inflation, $20 in 1995 would be around $28 today, which is comparable to the $30 a month data charge for a smartphone.

      Instead of comparing the present to the ancient technological past when 28k was considered "fast" and a ~0.1 gigahertz processor was standard, how about comparing the present to the present?

      $50 for cellular internet; capped at a mere 5-10 gigabytes

      $15-20 for DSL with no cap (or cable with 250GB cap)

      $7 for dialup with no cap

      $0 for over-the-air television (6000 gigabytes per channel)

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    22. Re:How Quickly They Forget by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>pay per minute dial up

      I thought that was charged by the phone company, not the ISP? My dialup used to be $13 unlimited time, and now it's dropped to just $7.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    23. Re:How Quickly They Forget by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      VHF Rabbit ears plus UHF loop. These used to be good for analog television, but now for digital television they are all-but-worthless. You really need to get one of the larger antennas:

      Settop VHF/UHF - http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss337/KonichiJ/dtv-antenna-rabbit-ears-hdtv.jpg
      CM4228HD - http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/picture.php?albumid=107&pictureid=538

      By the way free tv won't last too much longer. The FCC and Obama administration are rushing full speed ahead to sell-off the remaining channels by 2012 to their Corporate Overloads (ATT and Verizon), and only leave ~5 channels per city. So enjoy your Free TV while you can - you'll soon be forced to either upgrade to Pay TV, or else take up book reading

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    24. Re:How Quickly They Forget by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>a VHS tape of a major motion picture cost you $90

      I don't remember any such time. Nor do I remember seeing anything worthwhile in Walamrt's $5 bin. What I remember is paying about $30 for VHS or an RCA videorecord movie. It was comparable to what Atari games cost. So a more realistic comparison:

      $30 circa 1980 for VHS
      $20 for Star Trek, Slumdog Millionaire, or other good movie on DVD

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    25. Re:How Quickly They Forget by Dr_Barnowl · · Score: 1

      It was at one time, both - you had to pay for the call, and pay the ISP for the time you spent online.

      In America, inclusive local calls were common at the time, so they just paid their ISP.

      We did get a variety of payment models such as

      • your ISP number was a premium rate no and the ISP got all their costs from that
      • You paid your ISP per minute to call a freephone number
      • You pay your ISP a fixed monthly rate to call a freephone number
      • And even - buy £30 of shares in my company and your dividends will pay for your ISP access

      I tried them all. Even the last one ; the guy absconded to Bermuda with the funds but until he was gone, the service his company provided was hands down the best deal you could get.

      The worst thing about them all was tying up the phone line.

    26. Re:How Quickly They Forget by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>back to prepaid dumb phone after years of carrying smart phones

      Wise idea. I pay only $5/month for my VirginMobile phone, and if I don't make any calls that money is simply rolled-over to the next month. I've now accumulated $100 on my phone (which will eventually get used up when I go to Otakon and other long distance places).

      You know what else went up? Satellite TV. You used to be able to get Dish TV's Family Package for only $20. Now they eliminated it, and the cheapest available is a two year contract at $35 per month.

      Cable went up too. Analog Comcast was $62 but it's been discontinued and replaced with $65 digital. That doesn't sound too bad, but you need to add $5 per set. My home was quoted at $80 a month! $62 to $80 is a huge jump.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    27. Re:How Quickly They Forget by Dan+East · · Score: 1

      The primary difference is that mobile devices are by their very nature personal, intimate devices, typically used only by a single person. So using your comparison, what would be an entire household of 5 people using a $1,500 computer and a $30 monthly internet fee is now a $300 a month cell bill, with over a $1000 initial investment in hardware, which all 5 people are locked into for the next 2 years.

      Further, any software purchased for use on the family computer could be used by all, while now software has to be purchased for each device individually.

      And then to top it all off, smartphones still cannot nearly replace the functionality, ease of use and optimum browsing experience of a PC, especially when talking about true productivity and creativity. So on top of all the phones the normal household still needs that $30 a month internet access and several hundred dollars of computer hardware.

      --
      Better known as 318230.
    28. Re:How Quickly They Forget by lilo_booter · · Score: 1

      Beginning to think I should have put a smiley in with that comment :-) - yes, I knew what he was referring to :-).

    29. Re:How Quickly They Forget by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>$30 a month for AOL on a $1,500 Windows 95 PC

      Wow. The salesman must have took one look at you and said "sucker". My Windows95 PC was given to me for free. All I had to do was sign a two-year-contract with MSN for a mere $19 a month. Not only did you overpay for your Dialup Internet, but you also got ripped-off on the computer.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    30. Re:How Quickly They Forget by commodore64_love · · Score: 2, Insightful

      >>>It doesn't require a separate fee for my Wii, for my 3 media PCs, for my Linux PCs, for my Macs, for the iphones or for the iPad.

      Yeah until they put a 5 GB cap on your service, and suddenly you start getting charged overage fees for all those devices exceeding the limit.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    31. Re:How Quickly They Forget by ultranova · · Score: 2, Funny

      $50 for cellular internet; capped at a mere 5-10 gigabytes

      $15-20 for DSL with no cap (or cable with 250GB cap)

      $7 for dialup with no cap

      $0 for over-the-air television (6000 gigabytes per channel)

      Can you use these over-the-air television channels to surf the Web or download files? No? Then your comparison is meaningless.

      Besides, nothing's more pathetic than a libertarian whining that a free public service he enjoys is about to be cut off.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    32. Re:How Quickly They Forget by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...Then you would need a house to host your telephone line, and it would suddenly jump to many thousands...

    33. Re:How Quickly They Forget by jedidiah · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The idea of being connected anywhere you go is nice in theory but doesn't work out quite so well in practice.

      I addressed that in my rant. The service level of overpriced iPad/iPhone mobile wireless sucks.

      You need a wifi connection to do anything serious with one of those devices. Some services are just plain locked out of 3G altogether.

      At this point in time, you're much better off with a larger hard drive than an overpriced mobile internet service tied to a single device.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    34. Re:How Quickly They Forget by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      > Yeah until they put a 5 GB cap on your service, and suddenly you start getting charged overage fees for all those devices exceeding the limit.

      Except it's all of the iPhone/iPad users that AT&T seems poised to "stick it to" presently.

      Those sorts of shenanigans cut both ways.

      At least my home service is not tied to a single device that isn't even in my control.

      Did anyone bring up the travesty that is text'ing pricing yet?

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    35. Re:How Quickly They Forget by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      $20 for Star Trek, Slumdog Millionaire, or other good movie on DVD

      I don't remember the last time I paid more than $10 for a DVD... heck, last week I bought about $100 of Blu-Rays for $10 or less ech and you can get the whole 'Band of Brothers' series on Blu-Ray for about $25, which is one of the best TV shows ever made.

      As the OP said, video is cheap and getting cheaper all the time; only rare movies and new releases cost anything like what a ten year old B-movie used to cost on VHS.

    36. Re:How Quickly They Forget by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>Can you use these over-the-air television channels to surf the Web or download files? No?

      No and yes. When you are watching television you are actually downloading MPEG2 video files. I'm downloading one right now called "Dances with Wolves" and last night while I was sleeping the TV's DVR downloaded Stargate, Dead Like Me, Reno 911, Monk, Lost, and Legend of the Seeker. I'll probably watch them this afternoon.

      Later tonight I'll be downloading the video files for Law & Order, NCIS, Ghost Whisperer, Star Trek Next Generation, South Park, Cold Case, Deadliest Catch, and a Korean telenovel called "You Are My Destiny". (Some I'll stream live while others will be stored on the hard drive.)

      All completely free of charge. 6000 gigabytes downloaded each month (per channel). I hope this post has been informative. :-)

      .

      >>>nothing's more pathetic than a libertarian whining about a free public service he enjoys is about to be cut off.

      Nothing's more pathetic than an [ignorant person] whining about a free public service he [apparently knows nothing about] else he wouldn't make such dumb statements. Fixed that for you. And just so you know: Libertarians consider the airwaves, just like the air itself, to be the Property of the People not the corporations. Libertarians consider the giving of channels 25-83 for cellphone companies - to be locked up behind ~$100/month paywalls - further proof that government is waaaaaay too big and in urgent need of downsizing to Constitutional limits. It no longer serves "We the People".

      The government's new motto is now "We the Corporations". The FCC is the most obvious example of this new motto. It needs be restrained.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    37. Re:How Quickly They Forget by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If so few users exceed the cap then why is there a cap?

    38. Re:How Quickly They Forget by arkane1234 · · Score: 1

      You have a 5Gb cap monthly (at max) with a phone plan. Also, a smartphone is quite a bit less capable than a desktop computer simply because of the screen size and keyboard style. Not that I'm dismissing them, since I use them on a daily basis and they are the best thing since sliced bread.
      Using the name AOL and internet together in the same sentence while talking about Windows 95 is a little twisted since America Online fought hard to keep the internet externalized for the longest time. Remember, they were a content-provider in their eyes, and not an internet provider.

      --
      -- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
    39. Re:How Quickly They Forget by arkane1234 · · Score: 1

      Besides, nothing's more pathetic than a libertarian whining that a free public service he enjoys is about to be cut off.

      "free public service" is such a misnomer in this case, since it's not a free public service, but a advertisement-subsidized business plan much like radio was and still is. The public air waves used are enabling the model as well.
      It doesn't matter if you are a republican, democrat, libertarian, or whatever else political ideology. Something that's been around for 60+ years (and readily accepted by American families everywhere!) because of a vision of being able to sell those air waves.. well, that just screams foul.

      --
      -- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
    40. Re:How Quickly They Forget by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      $20 for Star Trek, Slumdog Millionaire, or other good movie on DVD

      You can get Slumdog on BluRay for $15 at Amazon. Free shipping if you spend $25. I doubt that's the lowest price.

    41. Re:How Quickly They Forget by icebrain · · Score: 1

      VHF Rabbit ears plus UHF loop. These used to be good for analog television, but now for digital television they are all-but-worthless. You really need to get one of the larger antennas

      They work just fine for us. Of course, we live about two miles from most of the broadcast towers (I can see them from the couch), and the other two are within ten miles. And really, we rarely pull in OTA television anyway; all we've watched on it has been five minutes of the world cup, and a couple minutes of local weather coverage during a storm. Otherwise, it's all netflix.

      --
      The meek may inherit the earth, but the strong shall take the stars.
    42. Re:How Quickly They Forget by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      I don't do texting but a quick look at my provider's website (VirginMobile) shows $20 for unlimited texting or $10 for 1000 (basically 2 texts per hour). That doesn't sound bad at all, if you're a texting addict.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    43. Re:How Quickly They Forget by laddiebuck · · Score: 1

      Assuming you use more than 1k minutes per month, why not just get one of the unlimited plans? I think it's around $60 with most providers; I'm currently with Virgin and get unlimited voice for $55/month, no contract. Of course, you pay for your phone, ranging from a basic $10 LG Aloha I used to have that does everything you need (including alarm) to my current $30 Samsung Mantra, which is thinner and has a camera. But it's priceless having no contract and knowing that nobody will randomly charge your credit card without your permission.

    44. Re:How Quickly They Forget by DrgnDancer · · Score: 1

      Except that seems to be a YMMV situation. I get nearly as good performance from the 3G network as I do from WiFi for most applications. I live in a moderate sized Southern city. I understand that in New York City this is not the case, but in many places 3G wireless is perfectly usable. I don't think I'd want to download Linux ISOs, but for everything I do on my phone or even would do day to day on a laptop, it's adequate.

      --
      I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
    45. Re:How Quickly They Forget by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Very liberal interpretation of "download". You are recieving and recording a broadcast you have almost zero control over.

      The "data feed" you are recieving is uncompressed, the FCC has simply mandated that the feed move to a compressed broadcast that makes more efficient use of the public resource (aka airwaves); the result is either a higher quality result or more channels of equal quality. Yes, the reception profile is different (the long tail of degrading signal replaced by a sharp clif of decodeable/undecodable) and new equipment is needed. You really aren't presenting any useful arguements, just spouting technical stats.

      My Free TV broadcasts 4 times the picture data using less bandwidth.

    46. Re:How Quickly They Forget by Fujisawa+Sensei · · Score: 1

      I guess I'm SOL. I'm not paying AT&T anything.

      --
      If someone is passing you on the right, you are an asshole for driving in the wrong lane.
    47. Re:How Quickly They Forget by The+End+Of+Days · · Score: 1

      to prevent the situation where my father subsidizes you.

    48. Re:How Quickly They Forget by vakuona · · Score: 1

      Because the few who exceed the cap really abuse the system. I will put this in some perspective. I had an iPhone 3GS for a year, during which time, on my unlimited service, I downloaded 1.3GB of data. A 750MB cap does not affect me, especially since whenever I am at home, I automatically switch to wifi. nd a point of correction about O2, they always had a fair usage policy. The only people complaining are those who used to download a lot. Why should the 99% of the population pay more to cater for the 1% who want to download an absurd amount?

    49. Re:How Quickly They Forget by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Those $5 movies at Wal-Mart are horrible B-grade movies that no one wants to watch. Even the MST3K gang wouldn't bother watching those.

      If you want cheap (but good) movies, get a $9 Netflix subscription.

    50. Re:How Quickly They Forget by jim_v2000 · · Score: 1

      Let's see you use your DSL while waiting at the DMV.

      --
      Don't take life so seriously. No one makes it out alive.
    51. Re:How Quickly They Forget by cas2000 · · Score: 1

      if libertarians are against corporate control of government, then why are they always against government having any powers to regulate corporations? that just makes the govt toothless and ensures that they can be nothing other than a tool for corps.

      could it, perhaps, be that Libertarianism is just a propaganda branding exercise for corporate interests? fill your head with nonsense equating liberty with "the free market" (an entirely mythical notion) so that you'll automatically interpret any attempt to control their actions as an assault on YOUR liberty?

      no, of course not. Libertarians are Rugged Individualists who are Far Too Smart To Be Fooled By That.

    52. Re:How Quickly They Forget by tenco · · Score: 1

      A decade ago i went online with a used PC that cost me about $300. No flatrate, though. Today I'm online with a PC that cost me about $350 (new) and internet for a good $20 flat. So how is $30 for internet access on a $300 phone or $600 tablet cheap?

    53. Re:How Quickly They Forget by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>why are they always against government having any powers to regulate corporations?

      They aren't. In a Libertarian world corporations wouldn't even exist, because they would never have been granted a license. No need to "regulate" something that was never created in the first place.

      Companies would still exist of course but they'd be proprietorships where the owner would have full liability for the actions of his company. So for example if a car blowing-up, then the owner & his managers/engineers would be liable for 3rd degree manslaughter. Or neglect. Depends what the prosecutor charged them with.

      No golden parachutes or immunity.
      .

      >>>could it, perhaps, be that Libertarianism is just a propaganda branding exercise for corporate interests?

      No it seems more likely you just don't know what you're talking about. Hopefully my paragraphs above helped inform you about what the Libertarians really think, and erased the false facts from your mind.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    54. Re:How Quickly They Forget by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>Something that's been around for 60+ years because of a vision of being able to sell those air waves.. well, that just screams foul.

      Not really. Radio and TV stations provide a useful service (news, weather, entertainment) but they also have expenses they need to pay. They could charge a fee to every person but it was determined that having sponsorship (ads) made more sense.

      Also they don't get those airwaves for free - each station pays about $100,000. That may not sound like much but when you multiply by 10,000 TV stations, it's a lot of money flowing into the People's Treasury year-after-year.

      And there are restrictions on that license. TV stations are expected to provide X number of hours for educational programming each week, televised debates for politicians, emergency broadcasts for weather or other disasters, and so on.

       

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    55. Re:How Quickly They Forget by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      Well my parents use rabbit ears/loop antenna and they can't get anything further than 20 miles.

      That's just 5 stations (versus the 20 I get with a CM4228) Even those stations inside that radius sometimes drop out for my parents. When the FCC set the power limits on DTV, they assumed everyone would have a 30 foot high antenna. They never tested (or cared) about indoor antenna reception, so now indoor antennas are almost worthless.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
  5. Search is still relevant... by ThisIsAnonymous · · Score: 5, Insightful
    From the article:

    Smart phones in general, and the iPad more pointedly, are not driven by search.

    I use my iPhone primarily for searching Google -- that's probably what I most use it for. If I'm watching a movie, reading a book, talking to someone, and I want to know some bit of information about the topic, I Google it on my phone and then view the relevant content in the browser. Of course, there is an app for that, but why would I want to install a dozen different applications (IMDB, Wikipedia etc.) when I can Google it and get the results on one page. Google is pretty good at providing what I need. I have no doubt, however, that other people use these individual apps to find the information they need. I guess it's a matter of preference.

    1. Re:Search is still relevant... by Threni · · Score: 0, Troll

      > why would I want to install a dozen different applications (IMDB, Wikipedia etc.) when I can Google it and get the results on one page.

      Because websites suck, and you're better of accessing the data on the sites via a tool hand crafted for the screen size/ui of the device you're viewing it on.

    2. Re:Search is still relevant... by bluesatin · · Score: 2, Informative

      > why would I want to install a dozen different applications (IMDB, Wikipedia etc.) when I can Google it and get the results on one page.

      Because websites suck, and you're better of accessing the data on the sites via a tool hand crafted for the screen size/ui of the device you're viewing it on.

      Because websites don't have mobile versions of their sites .. oh wait.

    3. Re:Search is still relevant... by ThisIsAnonymous · · Score: 1

      While I agree that the individual applications are nicely formatted on the iPhone, I don't really like having to switch between different applications (of course, many sites have mobile versions now as well). If I want to Google some information about a certain film director, for example, I can get to several different sites (Wikipedia, IMDB etc.) all within the browser. I don't have to close the application at all to check some other application. As I said, I think it's really a matter of personal preference. I would have to click the back button or open new windows in the browser to view several different sites. I guess to some people, this would be the equivalent of opening the IMDB app, then closing it, then opening the Wikipedia app etc. Personally, I prefer the browser, but I'm sure some people don't. I find the browser to work faster for these sort of lookups.

    4. Re:Search is still relevant... by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      >> why would I want to install a dozen different applications (IMDB, Wikipedia etc.) when I can Google it and get the results on one page.
      >
      >Because websites suck, and you're better of accessing the data on the sites via a tool hand crafted for the screen size/ui of the device you're viewing it on.

      That's a laugh riot. Those "specialized" tools suck horribly. You're usually much better off with a generic website that has made no special effort to accomodate your particular special (mobile) device. The "mobile app" as web displacer is the single most overblown and overhyped bit of nonsense in the last decade.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    5. Re:Search is still relevant... by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      The power to search anything at the same time really makes any speciality app pale in comparison. Sure, the veneer might be pretty but the beauty there is only skin deep. Mobile apps are great perhaps if you are completely superficial. Otherwise, they end up being sorely lacking. The fact that mobile browsers create artificial need for apps (by being crappy browswers) is the single most annoying feature of mobile devices.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    6. Re:Search is still relevant... by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Google is pretty good at providing what I need. I have no doubt, however, that other people use these individual apps to find the information they need. I guess it's a matter of preference.

      I'd say it's a metter of ignorance. Why pay for an IMBD app when IMDB and wikipedia and Google are accessable for free in the internet?

    7. Re:Search is still relevant... by eln · · Score: 1

      . Why pay for an IMBD app when IMDB and wikipedia and Google are accessable for free in the internet?

      Because the IMDB app is free and the IMDB web page takes forever to render over 3G on the iPhone's crappy web browser.

    8. Re:Search is still relevant... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Believe it or not when I talked with an app developer, these apps which are front ends for websites are the ones at the top of the App Store. Phones are not computers, and it takes a bit of time to fumble around a web page on a mobile phone unless the page was expressly designed for it. So an app that one can use to order a burrito, put a CC# in, and pick it up at a store is very useful to some, compared to finding the website, and drilling down to order options.

      I know it is crazy, and reality not a good solution, but it is what people seem to be downloading.

    9. Re:Search is still relevant... by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>IMDB web page takes forever to render over 3G on the iPhone's crappy web browser.

      Install Opera - it uses text and image compression to render about 5 times faster. Here's a brief video that demonstrates the difference: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mw0B2lrpDfo

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    10. Re:Search is still relevant... by Mark+Trade · · Score: 1

      That, my friend, is called "anecdotal evidence". I doubt that it is much better than no evidence at all.

    11. Re:Search is still relevant... by Aranykai · · Score: 1

      The one your on right not doesn't have one, for instance. It's much easier to use an RSS reader than it is to browse slashdot on a mobile device.

      Mobile websites are actually quite rare in my experience.

      --
      If sharing a song makes you a pirate, what do I have to share to be a ninja?
    12. Re:Search is still relevant... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ALL Modern browsers support text compression (gzip).

  6. The Age of Free Information is over by Arancaytar · · Score: 1

    Netcraft confirmed it.

    1. Re:The Age of Free Information is over by bsDaemon · · Score: 1

      Ironically, netcraft provided its confirmation information free of charge... thus being the exception that proves its own rule?

  7. Wait by eclectro · · Score: 1

    Yet lack of uptake by young people will hardly stop the rush to apps

    No, but a deflationary environment can.

    --
    Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
  8. Claimed On Paid Apps, Paid Content by eldavojohn · · Score: 3, Informative

    Eh? I thought the entire drive behind the iphone and the appstore is young people... without them apple wouldnt be making money hand over fist, and not everyone and their grandma would be building apps to 'get rich quick'TM

    If young people didnt care about apps, no one would make them, since there wouldnt be any benefit to doing so at all.

    You must have just skimmed the paragraph preceding your quote. The author says

    They are operating on the largely correct assumption that people will be more likely to pay for consumer-friendly apps via the iPad, and a multitude of competing devices due out this year, than they are to subscribe to the same old kludgy Web site they have been using freely for years.

    The author is making the distinct assumption that anyone under 30 years of age enjoyed or enjoys free content and therefore sees no reason to use Netflix or pay for an iPhone app. I don't know what the actual numbers are and I wish the author had included a lot more citations but the assumption is that young people pay less for applications in the mobile environment. I think that's a safe assumption just based on how much income they usually have compared to people over 30. The other assumption is that once young people enjoy free media via filesharing, they are unwilling to pay for that content via Netflix, Amazon or iTunes. I don't think that's universally true although there may be a small percentage that hold that mentality -- whether it be through an idealism or just lack of money to spend.

    --
    My work here is dung.
    1. Re:Claimed On Paid Apps, Paid Content by Chrisq · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I think that's a safe assumption just based on how much income they usually have compared to people over 30.

      But they often have a larger Discretionary income.

  9. Terrible by crow_t_robot · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It seems to me that this article is completely based around the iPhone and the AT&T data plan subscriptions. Does this guy forget that desktops/notebooks will still outnumber smartphones 20k/1? Almost everyone that owns a "Smartphone" owns at least 1 (if not more) expensive desktop/notebook computers that are connecting to the internet through the cable company. Also, I get the feeling that the smartphone subscription model might just be a re-hash of what happened in the early days of the AOL-style dial-up internet. Maybe things will start up this way and open up into much more free content and services as the market grows....just like the original internet did. Horrible article.

    1. Re:Terrible by coastwalker · · Score: 1

      I dont have and I dont want a smartphone with a dataplan. Not because I dont want a smartphone but because I dont want the dataplan and its walled garden. All of the subscription services are pretty much a con to make you pay for something you dont need that could be purchased on a pay as you go basis. I enjoy the free stuff but accept that it has to be payed for somehow. I'm not prepared to pay overinflated subscription fees for a walled garden though. When I read in forums about people paying $500 a month for a family plan with half a dozen iPhones I am deeply surprised that people could pay as much for running them as they probably spend on food. It has to be a vanity thing and a fashion statement. It will come to an end and something else will take over - like personal presence everywhere for example, where every phone or PC reconfigured itself to be your machine in your presence - and not straight jacketed into Apples revenue gathering funnel either. So they can fool all of the people some of the time or move on to fool some of the people all the time but the days of universal rip off subscriptions and walled gardens mediated by the smartphone are strictly limited. I might get one when they are finished.

      --
      Facts are history now plebs have politics for religion on social media.
    2. Re:Terrible by Steauengeglase · · Score: 1

      You hit the nail on the head. This is just largely another, "iPhone/iPad will change everything" article. Too bad The Atlantic is so damned late; even the editors of Time know the story is old.

      As far back as the '80s, when Apple launched the desktop-publishing revolution, the company has always made the case that the bourgeois comforts of an artfully constructed end-to-end solution, despite its limits, were superior to the freedom and danger of the digital badlands.

      Tee-hee, EWorld.

    3. Re:Terrible by Steauengeglase · · Score: 1

      OK, saying EWorld was rude.

  10. The Internet as a business by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If you want to know why the "Information wants to be free" attitude is dying, it is because the Internet has been taken over by business interests; the original network of academics and hackers is just a tiny fraction of what the Internet has now become. Most of the people on the Internet have no interest in freedom, they just want to go to some large business' website and do whatever it is that they do there.

    --
    Palm trees and 8
    1. Re:The Internet as a business by Richard_at_work · · Score: 2, Interesting

      With all due respect, the vast majority of 'information wants to be free' touting users today seem to be those happily downloading from TPB et al the content supplied by those "business interests". Or in other words, its justification for a given behaviour.

    2. Re:The Internet as a business by mlts · · Score: 1

      This has been going all along. First, the Internet was researchers, old school hackers (using the old meaning of the term), and maybe a kook or two that at least was well behaved or their sysadmin would yank their access.

      The start of the change is when NSFNet was handed over to commercial interests, and then Canter/Seigel spammed USENET and essentially got away with it.

      These days, these types of people are on the wayside. The main people on the Internet are guys who are interested in p0rn and are more than willing to download a compromised executable or 20 in order to watch some XXX stuff. This is one reason why operating systems are being designed where the user doesn't control root, mainly because most users are too stupid for such access.

      10-15 years ago, people knew what root or Administrator was, and the ramifications of running as such. Today, the average Internet monkey just doesn't care. This is why on devices, there is a battle to yank root access away from the consumer. This way Joe Sixpack who infects his computer and blames Microsoft for it doesn't go and infect his phone, then blame the maker because some app starts spamming everyone on the contact list.

    3. Re:The Internet as a business by ciggieposeur · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Just another face of Eternal September.

    4. Re:The Internet as a business by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      they just want to go to some large business' website and do whatever it is that they do there.

      it's called work, you might want to try it some time.

    5. Re:The Internet as a business by mrsquid0 · · Score: 3, Informative

      The original statement, back in 1984, was "On the one hand information wants to be expensive, ... On the other hand, information wants to be free," The "information wants to be expensive" part is important to understanding what "information wants to be free" really means.

      --
      Just because you are paranoid does not mean that no-one is out to get you.
    6. Re:The Internet as a business by williamhb · · Score: 1

      If you want to know why the "Information wants to be free" attitude is dying, it is because the Internet has been taken over by business interests; the original network of academics and hackers is just a tiny fraction of what the Internet has now become. Most of the people on the Internet have no interest in freedom, they just want to go to some large business' website and do whatever it is that they do there.

      There had been a big business rush towards "free" -- a little akin to a second dot-com bubble but around a business model rather than a method of delivery. If "you can't compete with free" then let's put our stuff out there free, take the market, and work out how to monetise it later. Or for software If we release this free, the community will support it so we won't have to carry all the expense and will grow faster. As with the dot com bubble, there were winners and losers. It turns out to be pretty hard to monetise "free" and costs quite a bit of effort to build and maintain a community and momentum. Some companies are making a success of the "free" business model, but there's not the mad rush there used to be.

    7. Re:The Internet as a business by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And then there's others that use the internet not for shopping or downloading music (not going to lie, I DO do both of those, but not nearly as much as...) but for entertainment. There's a fairly extensive list of webcomics that I read online, as well as watching video game speed runs on speed demos archive. Those two are by far my primary use of the internet. What category does THAT fall into, hmm?

    8. Re:The Internet as a business by Hatta · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If you want to know why the "Information wants to be free" attitude is dying, it is because the Internet has been taken over by business interests

      Not really. Facebook embodies the spirit of "information wants to be free". It is easier now to come by all sorts of personal data about people you've never met than ever before.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    9. Re:The Internet as a business by jim_v2000 · · Score: 1

      Oh ideologues, you never fail to entertain. The internet wasn't invented to enable the freedom of information. It was meant to be a redundant military network.

      --
      Don't take life so seriously. No one makes it out alive.
    10. Re:The Internet as a business by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You should provide a link - I think the Eternal September will not mean much to some here that have been weened on "Web2.0" crap.

    11. Re:The Internet as a business by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 1

      Nevermind that "The Internet" as opposed to "ARPANet" really began in the mid 80s when researchers outside of the military began connecting their networks.

      --
      Palm trees and 8
  11. disclosure: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    shouldn't they have some sort of disclosure that they are in the 'information wants to be subscribed to business' that is being threatened by the 'information wants to be free' thing

  12. meego is linux. by Colin+Smith · · Score: 4, Interesting

    You can have the source.

    http://meego.com/downloads

    What's happening in fact is the proprietary mobile telcos are under pressure from all directions. Google and even more significantly, Nokia. Apple.... yeah... well...

    The Internet is still there. The PC is still there. You now have all that moving mobile. It's more, not less.

     

    --
    Deleted
  13. The market disagrees by CodePwned · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Every single media provider who started to charge for content has lost out. New York Times is a great example. They've had to reduce prices again and again and again and still have trouble.

    The second a news story is out, someone reproduces it. It's no longer about content ownership, it's who can get it out, correct and in a format people like FIRST.

    Look at music... who won that one? Itunes. They got it out in a method and format faster and better than anyone. Now... admittedly there might have been better services but they didn't offer the library that itunes can. (I hate itunes before anyone passes judgment).

    What the market is proving is that people have a threshold for payment on content. The majority of us it's around $10 for movies (that's when sales peak in numbers other than first release) on DVD's, for music it's around $15 for a full CD, 75 to 99 cents for an individual song... and so on. News media, it's 0. There are a small few of us that then replicate this news (to the media companies horror) to the wide audiences. The author things this will stop... and of course has no true understanding of the market.

    Information is easier to share than at any other point in history. News is replicated and spread in seconds now, and people, not just the young kids, are used to it for FREE. The only way this "may" be possible is if every single news media group put up walls at the same time... AND noone found a way to bypass this. It's just not feasible.

    The most impact this can possible have is a lag in news release in the hours. It's like the RIAA... it's an antiquated business model that doesn't work anymore. The times have changed so that content en masse is no longer valuable, just the content itself. Good news, strong stories... well written... that's what matters now.

    Welcome to the 21st century.

    1. Re:The market disagrees by hedwards · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Indeed, but the NPR model seems to still be holding up pretty well. They don't waste money trying to get absolutely everybody to pay, simply to get as many people as possible to pay, then not nag people during the rest of the year. On the net, it tends to be easier, because you can offer an ad version to those that can't or don't want to directly contribute, and give those that do an ad free version plus perhaps some minor perks.

    2. Re:The market disagrees by CodePwned · · Score: 2, Interesting

      NPR is different. They aren't demanding anything unreasonable, don't take political sides and report accurate REAL news. Use Fox News as a polar opposite.

    3. Re:The market disagrees by DancesWithBlowTorch · · Score: 1

      Information is easier to share than at any other point in history. News is replicated and spread in seconds now, and people, not just the young kids, are used to it for FREE. The only way this "may" be possible is if every single news media group put up walls at the same time... AND noone found a way to bypass this. It's just not feasible.

      Maybe I'm part of a very small group in this regard, but I would be very happy to pay for online news that is well researched, provides in-depth, intelligent analysis, and presented through a convenient, ad-free front-end. I currently can not get this online, so I pay for a print subscription.

      The times have changed so that content en masse is no longer valuable, just the content itself. Good news, strong stories... well written... that's what matters now.

      You say that, but can you point out a single good online news source that provides the journalistic rigour of the likes of the New Yorker or the Economist? I don't think so. If you don't know what I mean, buy an edition of those newspapers at the newsstand and compare it to your favourite online news outlet. Bad journalism has become so commonplace online these days that many people have forgotten what a good newspaper reads like. There is just not enough money in online news to pay for the sort of work required, and the interface in its current form (mobile phones / desktop computers) is not amenable to long stretches of text. Maybe the iPad will change this, but I'm not holding my breadth. I was never worried about music, or the film industry, even in the hayday of Napster. But I am seriously worried that, over time, print will die out, and we will all be left with the current tornado of dumbed-down, superficial, spin-doctored soundbites out of the big news agencies, and that will be a serious loss for democracy.

  14. It's not the frontier, but the mass market by petes_PoV · · Score: 1

    The shift of the digital frontier from the Web, where the browser ruled supreme, to the smart phone,

    Most people don't have a smartphone. Most people have a basic mobile where you press a few buttons and talk to people - that's all. Until of if that changes, the massive bulk of the personal comuting iceberg will remain on desktop and laptop computers. That's where free software will retain it's natural lead, no matter what happens to the small (but significant in it's own way) proportion of smartphone users.

    We should not get carried away by the hype from the manufacturers of these closed, locked down and heavily restricted devices. While they have a place, the vast bulk of applications - both free and paid-for will remain where the vast bulk of the users are: using devices with screens at least the size of a sheet of paper and with input devices that are usable for the mass creation of content. That's the main reason why PDAs failed to take off and is the main stopper behind smartphoens getting mass appeal. When they do, the free apps will follow.

    --
    politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
    1. Re:It's not the frontier, but the mass market by takowl · · Score: 1

      [snip]... where the vast bulk of the users are: using devices with screens at least the size of a sheet of paper and with input devices that are usable for the mass creation of content.

      And when you can drop your phone into a cradle at home, and it magically hooks up to a screen, keyboard and mouse? Or maybe even a short-range wireless link?

      It doesn't take a genius to predict that what we now call 'smartphones' will get cheaper and more mass market until what you call a "basic mobile" seems as quaint as a phone with a two-line, monochrome LCD screen and a sticky-out aerial does now. It's hardly even a prediction: I already see more and more smartphones around, and more advertising for them.

      Listen to yourself. Technology is like it is, and it's not going to change? Only a few years ago, cameras in phones seemed like a gimmick; of course people would want separate digital cameras. Now only the cheapest phones come without one, and the quality on the better ones is as good as basic consumer cameras. Even the iPod nano now has a camera. Predicting technology is never easy, but predicting that it won't really change much is almost guaranteed to be wrong.

    2. Re:It's not the frontier, but the mass market by tepples · · Score: 1

      It doesn't take a genius to predict that what we now call 'smartphones' will get cheaper

      The price for the first month falls quickly. The price for months 2 through 24, not so much.

    3. Re:It's not the frontier, but the mass market by IBBoard · · Score: 1

      Only a few years ago, cameras in phones seemed like a gimmick; of course people would want separate digital cameras. Now only the cheapest phones come without one, and the quality on the better ones is as good as basic consumer cameras.

      It is still a gimmick - the resolution might go up, but will the quality and usability? I'd bet that the quantity of photographs increased as they moved to phones, but the quality of the content decreased. Come on, even five minutes on Twitter and TwitPic shows why some people should be bound, gagged and prevented from communicating to the masses in a way that they think everyone needs to care about.

      Also, the inclusion of cameras on just about all phones has its downside. Anyone who has to work on secured sites (like UK Gov't) isn't supposed to have recording devices on-site, so buying a suitable modern phone is a PITA.

    4. Re:It's not the frontier, but the mass market by meringuoid · · Score: 1
      closed, locked down and heavily restricted devices

      BusyBox v1.10.2 (Debian 3:1.10.2.legal-1osso30+0m5) built-in shell (ash)
      Enter 'help' for a list of built-in commands.

      ~ $ sudo gainroot
      Root shell enabled.

      BusyBox v1.10.2 (Debian 3:1.10.2.legal-1osso30+0m5) built-in shell (ash)
      Enter 'help' for a list of built-in commands.

      /home/user #

      --
      Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
    5. Re:It's not the frontier, but the mass market by DrgnDancer · · Score: 1

      The US government has given up. We're allowed camera phones on-site now. Just can't bring them into secure areas. I used to just leave my phone in the car to be honest with you, couldn't be bothered to limit my choices to camera-less devices. Since most sites won't allow even cameraless models into secure areas, it wasn't all that different to leave it in the car vs. leaving it in my desk.

      --
      I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
  15. to media producers banking on paywalls and iPads.. by 16K+Ram+Pack · · Score: 1

    ... Think Again.

    The only reason that you enjoyed what you had before is that there wasn't the content distribution network of the internet. It was very narrow. Newsagents had limited shelves, Satellite companies had limited numbers of channels. It was only because of limited options that you could do what you could do.

    What did the monks who hand wrote books do after Gutenberg? Probably stopped hand writing books, mostly. Once anyone could write their own books, you didn't need people to write it for you.

  16. The Right to Read by McDutchie · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Instead of this piece of fluff (which should have been titled "The End of Freedom"), it's better to re-read The Right to Read by RMS: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html. He saw this coming back in 1997.

    1. Re:The Right to Read by Richard_at_work · · Score: 1

      I find it amusing that straw man arguments are regularly derided here on Slashdot, but RMS's "Right to Read" story seems to be given a pass when its nothing but a straw man...

    2. Re:The Right to Read by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean we're not on a slippery slope leading to people being prevented from doing with information as they see fit? Oh, good. I thought we were. Good thing I can go back to sleep. Everything is fine.

    3. Re:The Right to Read by Richard_at_work · · Score: 1

      Even under RMS's personal ideal you could never "do with information as you see fit".

    4. Re:The Right to Read by migla · · Score: 4, Funny

      Are you gonna have the "which-is-more-freedom-the-right-to-be-free-but-without-the-right-to-enslave-or-the-right-to-be-free-including-the-right-to-enslave-debate now?

      I'll join, but I'll just skip it and jump to the end and state that I like the one without slavery better. :)

      --
      Some of my favourite people are from th US; Vonnegut, Chomsky, Bill Hicks.
    5. Re:The Right to Read by Richard_at_work · · Score: 1

      You see, by using such terminology (enslavement), no matter what I say can be misconstrued or misrepresented to put me in bad light, when infact RMS's ideal already contains the right to enslave.

    6. Re:The Right to Read by jvkjvk · · Score: 1

      So what's the difference between a straw man and a prediction of the future?

      Because from what I've read, RMS has had quite a few "straw man" arguments that turned out to be precisely the type of shit that has happened.

      What you seem to call a stram man argument more than once has turned out to be rather prescient.

      No, find your own links if you are so inclined - I've already done my reading.

      Regards.

    7. Re:The Right to Read by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah, so it's not a straw man in the story at all then? You just don't like other stuff RMS advocates?

    8. Re:The Right to Read by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      only if you have the mental age of a squashed lemon.

      RMS is a dork, a hippie who lives off the state on an academics wage and sleeps in his office.
      He should grow up, shave and get a real fucking job.
      Then he might get a clue about hwo the real world works.

  17. Radical shift by RDW · · Score: 0

    'The shift of the digital frontier from the Web, where the browser ruled supreme, to the smart phone, where the app and the pricing plan now hold sway, signals a radical shift from openness to a degree of closed-ness that would have been remarkable even before 1995'

    I guess this is a bit far-fetched, but I wonder if it would be possible to design a phone that could somehow access the 'free' web so we could 'browse' it anywhere without having to carry a PC around? And maybe even introduce some sort of flat-rate monthly 'internet access charge' like those we have for broadband? Or how about a really crazy idea - might it even be possible to persuade people to buy proprietary 'applications' for home computers?

    1. Re:Radical shift by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      > Or how about a really crazy idea - might it even be possible to persuade people to buy proprietary 'applications' for home computers?

      Sounds like the 80s.

      If you wanted to use the 80s version of Google Maps, you were stuck doing it on one and only one platform because
      most companies didn't want to bother with supporting multiple platforms. That is basically what Steve Jobs and all
      of his little Fanboys are pushing us into.

      Steve wants to be the new Bill.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    2. Re:Radical shift by RDW · · Score: 1

      'If you wanted to use the 80s version of Google Maps, you were stuck doing it on one and only one platform because most companies didn't want to bother with supporting multiple platforms. That is basically what Steve Jobs and all of his little Fanboys are pushing us into.'

      Fortunately, I don't think we'll be pushed into anything. Jobs has positioned the iPhone rather like the Mac back in the 80s, as a well-designed but expensive high-end platform that will end up being used by an 'elite' (or so perhaps they imagine) minority. I don't know what the author of the original article uses, but it reads like something written from this sort of 'closed ecosystem' perspective, which probably won't become the industry standard. It seems rather more likely that we'll see the market flooded with cheap Android handsets much as commodity PCs came to predominate in the late 80s and 90s. And Android users can install what they like, including (e.g.) multiple alternatives to Google Maps that pull in data from alternative sources (some completely free and open).

      Of course, things might change if Jobs decides to make the iPhone more of a mass-market item (just as he did with the iPod), but with strong competition from Android the opportunity to own this market sector (and control what everyone installs) may already have been lost. The author is also writing from the rather distorted perspective of a user of US cellphone networks, where everyone seems to be locked into outrageously expensive data plans. In the UK, I can currently get all the bandwidth I actually need on a (PAYG) smartphone for 40 GBP a year.

  18. how can you compare the web to the smartphone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The shift of the digital frontier from the Web, where the browser ruled supreme, to the smart phone, ...

    how can you compare the WEB to a SMARTPHONE???

    In the early pc era first there were programms then came the browser. Now we see a slow but persistent migration of most functionality of those programms to the browser platform (think google docs,...). I think the same is happening with smartphones. Just because the average smartphone browser doesnt support everything a normal pc browser does (yet), doesnt mean that long term the web in the browser wont prevail even on the phones.

    There is so much fragmentation in the smartphone market it's easyer to provide content to multiple types of phones and users through the browser platform than with an app (though for now you are very limited about using your phones full hw potential). and with time and acceptance of html5 and beyond, this will be even easyer.

    To develop an app that runs fine on all different platforms you have to know the ins and outs of each specific platform. In theory to develop a browser app you need to better know just one. and that one is opento each and every phone user even if he or she uses a 5year old phone. they mostly have internet capabilities.

    I think that the current state of mind that apps are the future is missguided. I see it more like a fad that will gradualy fade away and give way to the constantly evolving browser/web platform for just about everything you do on you smartphone.

    1. Re:how can you compare the web to the smartphone? by delinear · · Score: 1

      Given what we're being promised with HTML5, it seems like apps might be a nice interim measure until sufficient desktop browsers support the new features. At that point, as you say, it will make much more sense to write an app that is browser based and can run on any device, be it a Mac with Safari, a Windows PC with Chrome, a phone browser or whatever.

  19. Confusing apps and network, with content by mdwh2 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The shift of the digital frontier from the Web, where the browser ruled supreme, to the smart phone, where the app and the pricing plan now hold

    The article confuses apps, Internet connections, with paying for media. On the desktop, it's long been the case that people pay for software (despite the useful presence of free software). And people pay for their Internet connection.

    Similarly with phones - people pay for applications, they pay for their connection.

    And the problem on the desktop isn't that people are unwilling to pay for media, it's that it often isn't available. Can I get TV on demand online for a charge? Not as far as I know in the UK. So I've no doubt that people will pay money for an app that gives them TV on a phone, but they would do so on the desktop too.

    Where pay-for media is struggling is news. Are people more like to pay to read a newspaper on their 5800 than on their Intel Windows PC?

    They are operating on the largely correct assumption that people will be more likely to pay for consumer-friendly apps via the iPad, and a multitude of competing devices due out this year

    Ah yes, a multitude of computing devices (laptops, netbooks, tablets, PMPs, phones), but let's give the obligitary product placement to the Ipad. Do we really think that most people will be walking around with an Ipad? And are netbook users etc going to start paying for content?

    And with Apple in the driver's seat

    Hah. Thankfully - given the article's valid concerns about their closed policy - this isn't remotely true when we look in terms of things like market share. Though no doubt I predict plenty of replies arguing until they're blue in the face that they are (or redefining market share to use some arbitrary criteria where they are first).

    Twitter, like other recent-vintage social networks, is barely bothering with its Web site; its smart-phone app is more fully featured. The independent TweetDeck, which collates feeds across multiple social networks, is not browser-based.

    This sort of thing is hardly new, nor necessarily a bad thing. Years ago, people used Usenet clients. Many people still use email clients. Sites like LiveJournal have downloadable clients for desktop platforms. It goes without saying that the software versions are more featured - otherwise what would be the point of them. We didn't have hip names for them like "apps", but it's the same thing, long before people started using their phones.

    But again, the article is conflating different issues - the technology (website versus software) with the idea of free content. Is anyone going to pay to read Twitter feeds, despite its use of apps?

    1. Re:Confusing apps and network, with content by mdwh2 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Huh?

      I don't really care whether it's LiveJournal or Livejournal; IPhone or Iphone. Where did I suggest that Livejournal was incorrect, or IPhone was incorrect?

      If you mean I'm not writing "iPhone", I fail to see what that's got to do with LiveJournal, since I didn't write "liveJournal" (or "lIvejournal"). If I was in the business of writing trademarks, it would be "LiVEJOURNAL", by the way.

      I apologise if everything I write doesn't seem completely consistent to you, I'll have to try better next time. I'm not the one going around moaning at how other people write, however.

      (with your lame, intentional mistyping)

      It's called English. "iPad" is the stylised trademark, which I don't write, anymore than you don't write "Toys R Us" with a backwards R; just as no one writes "Intel" or "Adidas" with a lower case capital, and just as you don't sing "ding-dong-ding-dong" when you write Intel.

      All you're missing is a well-rounded, impotent M$

      Why would I write "M$"? What have Microsoft got to do with anything here?

      the Circle of Troll

      If you're going to accuse me of inconsistency, shouldn't that be "cIrcle of tRoll", if you love capitalising second letters but not the first so much?

    2. Re:Confusing apps and network, with content by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      > LiveJournal? What is that?
      >

            Mebbe we need to get you your "ear horn" old man.

      > Oh, you mean Livejournal. Now your arbitrary capitalisation has gone mid-word! You should check
      > your code. Your buffer must have overflown scrambling to be first to cast a throwaway

      Don't blame the OP. Blame the owners of the relevant website. That's how they do it. It's
      THEIR name. It's up to them how they want to present it.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    3. Re:Confusing apps and network, with content by IBBoard · · Score: 1

      Can I get TV on demand online for a charge? Not as far as I know in the UK.

      Erm, BBC have the iPlayer (free), Channel 4 have 4OD (4 On Demand - Free), Sky has the Sky Player and even lets you pay for individual episodes of Bones/House/etc without a subscription or get free stuff based on your Sky package. They probably all use potentially less than Linux-friendly technology (I think BBC and Ch4 use Flash and Sky seem to use Silverlight and used to require Windows Media Player for DRM) but the TV content is there.

    4. Re:Confusing apps and network, with content by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Although a lot of apps may really be just software, it sounds like it is pretty common to sell media on the iPhone by selling an "app" that contains that media (or through which that media can be bought).

    5. Re:Confusing apps and network, with content by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you mean I'm not writing "iPhone", I fail to see what that's got to do with LiveJournal, since I didn't write "liveJournal" (or "lIvejournal"). If I was in the business of writing trademarks, it would be "LiVEJOURNAL", by the way.

      It's not a trademark. It's a name. There's a difference. You pretend that you follow "standard" English, but you then use midcaps--which are not standard English. You pretend there's something inherently wrong with mixed-case proper names, but you only make a point of highlighting it with Apple products.

      just as no one writes "Intel" or "Adidas" with a lower case capital,

      That's because the name of the company is Intel and Adidas, respectively.

      You don't seem to have a problem writing "i386" or "RAZR" in the proper case--it's just your own sad version of M$ when it comes to a product starting with "i" that is made by Apple.

      Drop the pretense.

    6. Re:Confusing apps and network, with content by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's how they do it. It's
      THEIR name. It's up to them how they want to present it.

      Evidently not, since King Mdwh2 (who failed to capitalise his own user name, but I guess the King does what the King doth do) insists that any mixed-case proper name MUST be rendered using "standard English"...which of course means "if it's made by Apple, change the case of the little "i" wherever it appears and pretend it's ignoring trademark conventions". You see, any proper name is capitalised in English, and capital letters can appear nowhere but the beginning of a word under "standard" English.

      And yet, "LiveJournal" (which under standard English should be 'Livejournal') is fine. "i386", which should be I386 if we're to follow His Royal Rules, is fine. "RAZR", which should be Razr, is fine. Palm's "webOS", which should be Webos, is fine. "deVille", which should be Deville, is fine.

      The only thing that is consistent is that it's a statement against Apple, against Apple alone, and in clear contradiction to the rest of the posts. It is his own private M$, and it's just as retarded, just like the moderator who bought the trademark bullshit.

      You'd think that like all proper names, the party who owns it would have the right to determine its spelling and presentation. But that is only true if it's not "mdhw2" and not an Apple product.

  20. Good news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I hope this really is the case. The WWW will be much better off if all the herdable bunch continue their slow, guided path into app-land and let the west return to the wild.

    1. Re:Good news by ColdWetDog · · Score: 2, Informative

      I hope this really is the case. The WWW will be much better off if all the herdable bunch continue their slow, guided path into app-land and let the west return to the wild.

      Except that it will be more like what really happened during the US western expansion. The sheep faced interlocutors will end up with Hummers in the Xburbs and you, the native, hoping to run free in the glorious sunset, will be herded off to a reservation. Just outside of Cleveland.

      "Oh, my white brothers .... "

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  21. Strawman based on bastardized belief system by nadaou · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If you go back to the actual quote,

    "In fall 1984, at the first Hackers' Conference, I said in one discussion session: "On the one hand information wants to be expensive, because it's so valuable. The right information in the right place just changes your life. On the other hand, information wants to be free, because the cost of getting it out is getting lower and lower all the time. So you have these two fighting against each other." That was printed in a report/transcript from the conference in the May 1985 *Whole Earth Review*, p. 49.

    http://www.rogerclarke.com/II/IWtbF.html

    cue twenty-five years later, the first part of the quote being widely forgotten, and an army of too-smart-for-you opionators attacking their own mis-quote using the original quote's argument as their justification for why it is wrong.

    It really makes you wonder what the non-populistized seventeen people later word of mouth versions of the original western religious texts were actually trying to say..

    --
    ~.~
    I'm a peripheral visionary.
    1. Re:Strawman based on bastardized belief system by locallyunscene · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'd say the movement for openness and freedom has moved a bit beyond the original quote and that any modern position could be called "bastardized" by that logic. Roger Clarke was stating the problem. People advocating open and/or free principals have chosen their priority in that dichotomy. Your contempt is hardly justified.

    2. Re:Strawman based on bastardized belief system by shadowofwind · · Score: 1

      It really makes you wonder what the non-populistized seventeen people later word of mouth versions of the original western religious texts were actually trying to say..

      Going way off topic....I used to wonder that, but now I don't care. Because of the cultural assumption "Jesus is Lord", it seems arrogant or even a little risky to say "Jesus was full of shit". So people say that the teaching of Jesus was cool, but his disciples and later folllowers twisted everything. And maybe there's truth to that. But if its like everything else in our world, it had at least subtle flaws from the start, even if those flaws were exploited and expanded later. How to sort it all out? It doesn't matter. Just read what's left, if you're inclined to, and take what you can from it. If you learn something true and valuable, that's independent of whether what you learned is what the original writer really meant. Personally I found Gospel of Thomas to be a lot more worthwhile than the four in the Bible, but no doubt its full of half-truths and distortions also. If great truths have been 'lost', as they no doubt have been, we'll discover and derive them again when we're ready for them.

    3. Re:Strawman based on bastardized belief system by jedidiah · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I think the 95% drop in the price of movies rather more supports the common interpretation of that quote then your attempt to rewrite it.

      Of course you are ignoring a very important part of that quite to suit your agenda. That part being "the right information". Most information
      has no real value. It's just entertainment dreck. That's why it is so easily devalued. It isn't "the right information". It isn't the "right
      information" for anyone because it really is meaningless.

      So it gets easily devalued when measured against all of the other n+1 variants of the same sort of thing.

      Thus they all get thrown together in a big bin at Walmart priced at a 95% discount when compared to what they would cost in 1985.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    4. Re:Strawman based on bastardized belief system by Tarsir · · Score: 1

      If that were true, people would be obligated to justify why information wants to be free rather than be expensive, at least occasionally. Instead people say "Information wants to be free" as though it is some kind of axiomatic truth. If 'Information wants to be free" were really seen as a choice in a dichotomy, people would recognize 'Information wants to be expensive' as a legitimate position to debate from. Instead almost all slashdotters insist that if you don't acknowledge that information wants to be free, you've missed such a fundamental idea that you're not capable of engaging in a meaningful debate on the topic.

      It's like a Windows vs Linux flamewar. People disagree on which is better, quite vigorously, and one side of the debate has a massively disproportionate representation in this forum, but nobody claims there is no debate; that Windows doesn't even exist. They just treat is as a long-since-answered question, and therefore uninteresting.

      I think his contempt is justified.

    5. Re:Strawman based on bastardized belief system by nadaou · · Score: 1

      If great truths have been 'lost', as they no doubt have been, we'll discover and derive them again when we're ready for them.

      If you are interested in such things, I'd highly recommend reading "The hero with a thousand faces" by Joseph Campbell. Also he did an excellent series of six hour-long PBS interviews with Bill Moyers called "The Power of Myth" which are well worth your time. Maybe they are on YouTube or floating around the internet somewhere.

      --
      ~.~
      I'm a peripheral visionary.
    6. Re:Strawman based on bastardized belief system by locallyunscene · · Score: 1

      If that were true, people would be obligated to justify why information wants to be free rather than be expensive

      There are pressures for information to be both free and expensive, as stated in the original quote. From that perspective they are both "axiomatic truths". The position for free supporters is that it is better to have open information, if less of it, than to have more inaccessible information.

      Obviously there is a balance to be struck, which is why most Open or Free supporters promote a 14 year copyright term for most works. There are those that argue a completely open system would be best for the public, but you're claiming they somehow miss that information is expensive, rather than choosing against it, and therefore worthy of contempt while similarly denying the other half of the premise.

      You don't have to agree, but contempt is hardly justified; it just deafens you to rational counter-argument.

    7. Re:Strawman based on bastardized belief system by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      an army of too-smart-for-you opionators attacking their own mis-quote using the original quote's argument as their justification for why it is wrong.

      TFA actually explained how there was an "information wants to be expensive" clause in the original, if you'd bothered to read it before attacking and, in an ironic twist, MISQUOTING it.

    8. Re:Strawman based on bastardized belief system by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      If that were true, people would be obligated to justify why information wants to be free rather than be expensive, at least occasionally.

      The information wants to be free, but the people who control the information want it to be expensive.

      It's like someone else said, "nature abhors a vacuum." That doesn't mean that light bulb makers abhor a vacuum. That doesn't mean nature actually has any particular feelings. It describes a general trend where vacuums, where practical, are extinguished. Information, where practical, is free. Who won the World Cup? Did you have to pay to receive that information? Even if you paid for the first impression (the morning paper you have a subscription to, or the cable network you watched it over), you probably heard it again for free somewhere.

      If FIFA could charge $0.10 every time someone said "Spain won the world cup" they would. They feel they own that information. They kicked people out of a stadium and had them arrested for wearing orange (expecting that they would be using that in a future commercial for a beer and they weren't actively promoting any particular object at the point in time they were arrested, at least according to the report I read). But the information wants to be free, despite FIFA's wants. So some things they can charge for (viewing the games) because of government granted monopolies enforced at gunpoint. But anything not explicitly protected at gunpoint is "free." If you removed the government granted monopolies, the games would still occur and more people would watch them at a lower total cost. It *wants* to be free. But people actively work to make it as expensive as possible.

    9. Re:Strawman based on bastardized belief system by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      In college, I took a History of Religion course. The professor started off the year telling us that we *would* be offended in the course, but it wasn't his intention to do so. He was simply going to teach us what history scholars have pieced together about religious figures' real lives. Obviously, this was going to contradict what the religious folks had learned in their churches/temples/etc.

      One interesting part was the segment on Jesus. According to my professor, he actually wanted to strengthen the Judaism laws. For example, cheeseburgers aren't kosher (eating milk and meat combined is a no-no). You can't eat one but if you think about eating one you haven't broken any laws. Jesus, however, was of the opinion that merely thinking of a sinful activity should carry the same punishment as carrying out that sinful activity. The majority of rabbis at the time disagreed knowing that there was no way for people to control every thought that popped into their heads.

      I find it highly ironic that his "followers," instead of forming some kind of hyper-strict sect of Judaism, ditched nearly all of the Jewish laws over the centuries.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    10. Re:Strawman based on bastardized belief system by shadowofwind · · Score: 1

      Interesting. This would be a good example of why the pursuit of 'what did Jesus really think?" doesn't do much for me. To me, the teaching about sinning in the heart is a simple statement of fact. Its foolish to think that you can indulge all manner of nasty thoughts and be able to get away with it without it affecting you. If you fill your mind with crap, you become crap, and sooner or later crap is what will show externally as well. At the same time, it never occurred to me that someone would make a strict, rigid set of rules out of that, with 'punishment' for thought crimes. It doesn't work. It would be like trying to raise a perfect child by punishing them every time they make a mistake. So what did Jesus think about this? Its almost impossible for me to tell, so I don't worry about it. And it appears to me that those who make claims about Jesus are often just making up interpretations of the evidence, when other interpretations would make just as much sense.

  22. It is the beginning. Not the end. by v(*_*)vvvv · · Score: 1

    Companies will always find ways to make money, because they are created when people come up with strategies to do so. And that is a main goal for many. Hence, there will always be growth in that direction, and it will always grow towards its maximum. Is it at its maximum? Nowhere close. And it is nowhere close even for Apple's closed garden, or for Facebook's closed social network.

    HOWEVER.

    Twitter and Facebook are leading the way to a new model of news and media all together. Anyone can follow anyone instantly. The viewer is connected directly to the publisher, and there are no middlemen. Distribution is a dead concept. Instant direct access by anyone to anything. And we can follow *exactly* what we want with no Ads. Not only is it free, it is superfree (no revenue model whatsoever). As long as we want to be heard, no strings will ever be attached. Furthermore, this unfiltered content directly from the source is the best kind of content for most. Goodbye big media.

    Although the original article is interesting and informative, it misses one key point in its conclusion, and that is the inevitable arrival of the peer-to-peer social network platforms. GeoCities was great, but it never made the web better, and where is it now? The web is peer-to-peer and that is what makes it great. Apache never owned any of our content, and we the people will own the future social web as well. We already feel it would be better that way, and we're all just waiting for a company to make that value proposition.

    1. Re:It is the beginning. Not the end. by delinear · · Score: 1

      Furthermore, this unfiltered content directly from the source is the best kind of content for most. Goodbye big media.

      The cynic in me can't help thinking you might be misunderestimating the need of a lot of people to have their news pre-processed, to remove any sharp edges, and then distributed through a channel that they know will give them warm fuzzy views aligned with their own. That will be big media's niche. It's the only way I can begin to explain Faux News.

    2. Re:It is the beginning. Not the end. by v(*_*)vvvv · · Score: 1

      Does anyone of our young generation really watch Faux news let alone cable news?

      The question isn't whether you still want to read your newspaper. The question is would you want someone filtering the words of your grandmother?

      And really, once the world model of tweets and social news grows to critical mass, most of us will be very good at organizing and consuming tons of small pieces of information.

      IMO.

  23. It's just by Dunbal · · Score: 5, Insightful

    That a lot of "Free" stuff also turns out to be crap. Therefore the hidden cost is the time it takes in sorting out the good free stuff from the crap. With payware certain standards are expected - or even enforced by third parties (ie an app store). In cases where some crapware does find its way into that third party store, usually there is someone to complain to and the crapware is removed quickly.

    It's the old argument of "I can't be bothered to do it myself". It's why we have politicians. It's why we have religions and "gods". Because we prefer to have 'someone else' to delegate certain fears and worries to (even if that 'someone else' turns out to be corrupt in the case of politicians and clerics, or even non-existent in the case of gods). Humans are funny that way.

    --
    Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    1. Re:It's just by AlexiaDeath · · Score: 1

      So, you are saying there is no crap payware? That's just bullshit. There's a lot of costly crap-ware. When you pick an app, price is not an indication of goodness. Popularity is. Popularity however is slightly skewed on the side of cheap. So cheap/free popular app has probably a bit less quality than a paid app of same popularity, but that's it.

    2. Re:It's just by jedidiah · · Score: 2, Insightful

      > With payware certain standards are expected

      That is a nice bit of delusion.

      It is entirely bogus of course.

      There is plenty of total dreck in payware software. There's plenty of expensive software that makes you want to delete
      it and install something Free instead. Microsoft was always great at making stuff like that. Apple even manages to do
      that too. Their "curation" of the app store also doesn't help curb the desire for better solutions and better products
      whether they're free or not.

      The idea that "payware is better" is just post factum argumentation by the swindled used to soothe their sorry egos.

      You got taken and you don't want to admit it. You need to justify some product choice that cost more than it really needed to.

      You weren't taken. You're just just vulnerable to flim flam. "it really is better"

      The existence of free things does not alter the need to pay attention to what you "buy". Paying for something doesn't magically allow you to be blissfully ignorant of what you are buying our what your actual requirements are.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    3. Re:It's just by dkleinsc · · Score: 1

      With payware certain standards are expected

      No, there aren't certain standards with payware. That's why your standard EULA denies all warranties, express or implied, including the warranty of merchantability (which would require that the product be something roughly like what the seller says it is) and the warranty of fitness for a particular purposes (which would require that the product be capable of solving the problem its advertising says it would).

      And incidentally, in an environment where information gets spread pretty easily, the information regarding which free stuff is crap and which free stuff is really useful gets spread pretty easily, and as a result the "hidden cost" you have is also a lot lower than you think.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    4. Re:It's just by rrohbeck · · Score: 1

      And the paid-for stuff is free of crap?
      There are very few information channels with a good crap-to-info ratio and many are free. PBS comes to my mind.

    5. Re:It's just by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This takes the cake for a useless subject line.

    6. Re:It's just by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're not kidding. I was browsing the store in my new iphone, and some of the first few programs I encounter? One that claims to allow you to track someone via their phone number. Another that claims to allow you to take 5-6Mpx photos with the 3Mpx iphone camera. And these are the vetted, inside-the-walled-garden pay apps. In fact, I didn't see an app in the store in my short browse through that wasn't either a scam, near-useless or buggy (as indicated by comments). If there's no way to sort through the crap to get to the gold then I'm going to remain unimpressed.

  24. Subsidization may bring free back... by hal2814 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I just recently paid $140 for a refurbished Kindle that has unlimited wireless Internet access on it. Yeah, the interface on the "Experimental" web browser is a bit kludgy but I can check my email, sports scores, and basic stuff like that for free. Amazon is betting that enough people use Kindle's purchasing system that it pays for the limited web usage they offer. If they are right and the web browser remains free, other services may adopt similar strategies of giving away basic Internet access in exchange for locking you in as a potential customer.

  25. Why are phones different? by T.E.D. · · Score: 1
    Perhaps I'm weird, but I don't pay for phone apps either. There are plenty of free apps out there.

    In the long run I think these folks are in for a disappointment. Economics works the same way with phones that it does for computers.

  26. Gold Rush by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 1, Insightful

    (Snark)
    "Hai Apple. Nice job getting Shareware to actually work! You earned your $."
    (/Snark)

    They got all my respect for doing business right. Everyone, take your $200 and buy your favorite apps. (Waits)

    Okay, everyone back? Everyone got your nice little 50 apps at $4 each? Good. Where were we ... Oh yes, the web. Watch what happens when 50% of companies stop maintaining the back end of their apps. We'll see 12 lawsuits from critical cases, and then it will all shake out into the top 100 apps that everyone will want, and we'll go back to *basic* info wanting to be free.

    --
    My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
  27. The author is a lobbyist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    He is preping the audience to expect this and so to not be upset when it arrives.
    thats why he is like essentially a lobbyist but is lobbying the public to say "hey this is normal so just except it and do it".

    This is why his logic path is not really logical because he needs to bend a few times to make it all match up with his intention which is to convince readers that its normal and logical that the price should go up.

    Its a common technique, like a self fulfilling prophecy

  28. There's too much potential upside. by overshoot · · Score: 4, Insightful
    As always, defining the business as though the only question that matters is, "how much can I milk the market for?"

    Apparently, the "consumers" are like grass: just an infinite [1] supply of fodder to be exploited, with all the decisions being made for us up the food chain.

    [1] I live in the West, and see on a regular basis how infinite that "sea of grass" really wasn't.

    --
    Lacking <sarcasm> tags, /. substitutes moderation as "Troll."
  29. Survival isn't free by dazedNconfuzed · · Score: 0

    the "Information wants to be free" attitude is dying ...because everyone realizes at some point that they like to eat three times a day, and sleep in a warm dry bed, and that fulfilling those desires is not free. "Free" information isn't, it's a gift; someone had to pay for it.

    --
    Can we get a "-1 Wrong" moderation option?
  30. Re:Paying for Apps by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 1

    I'm just having fun that Apps are so much better than Windows Mobile 6. After I get all my shinies, I'll just go back to my life.

    --
    My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
  31. More corporate BS by mcgrew · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Disclaimer: I havent RTFA yet, and sometimes the summaries don't accurately reflact their FAs. But from the summary, TFA seems particularly clueless. First, "Information wants to be free" is IMO clueless in itself. Information doesn't want to be free any more than your doorknob wants to be free. You could as easily say "Information wants to be paid for". But when information isn't free, neither are you.

    Second, "The shift of the digital frontier from the Web, where the browser ruled supreme, to the smart phone, where the app and the pricing plan now hold sway" is just as clueless. The internet is the internet, whether you're accessing it from your phone or your PC. Few have 4G smartphones. Mine isn't 4G, but it will access the internet, and guess what? There are tons of free apps for it. And an iPhone is 4G, but 4G isn't iPhone any more than a four legged animal is a dog. Apple has always been a walled garden, and that's how Apple customers like it. But most of us aren't Apple customers.

    It's far from a given that this shift will generate the kinds of revenue media companies are used to

    Who gives two shits whether or not media companies get revenue? I don't, and neither should anyone not invested in media company stock. I'm sick of the corporate whores and the corporate media they own turning the world into a bunch of money worshiping greedheads who believe "free=worthless". The best things in life are free: Sunsets, air, rain, FOSS, indie music, walking hand in hand with your S.O., playing catch with your grandchild, etc. Nothing you can buy holds a candle to any of these. Windows is far inferior to Linux, which isn't only free as in beer but gives one true computing freedom.

    And I find it fascinating that the corporate media usually refuses to even mention FOSS. We nerds are the only ones who know about Linux; when I mention to normal people that they can replace Windows with an OS that costs nothing and is free from viruses, and there is an office suite that is likewise free, and free media playes that are superior to WiMP, they're astounded.

    Now to a response to your comment about "The only question now is who will own" the web, personally I think the question is ludicrously meaningless, not important. Nobody owns it, and nobody will. It's free.

    I look forward to free internet access for all, free of corporate robber barons and gatekeeprs, a mesh network where everyone opens up access to everyone else. It's doable and should be done, and I think we here at slashdot are the ones to start it. As to "the government", which government? It's a world wide web, not an American corporate web.

    1. Re:More corporate BS by clang_jangle · · Score: 5, Informative

      First, "Information wants to be free" is IMO clueless in itself.

      No, you're the one who is clueless -- about what that famous phrase actually means.

      --
      Caveat Utilitor
    2. Re:More corporate BS by aurispector · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You're mostly spot on. "information wants to be free" has always been idiotic without concise definitions of "information" and "free". Copyrighted materials will always have strings attached; the question is whether the holder of the strings can figure a way to cash in. Let's face it - people usually put genuine valuable labor into things they copyright. That's why they want to sell it. Information like "Spain won the world cup" is also valuable but it isn't copyrightable. This is the kind of thing people want to find out over a relatively free internet. The term "relatively" applies because people are generally paying for access via direct ISP fees or phone contracts or perhaps advertising supported access. The point is the internet was never free. Students pay for access via tuition, libraries offer "free" access supported by local tax dollars. SOMEBODY has to pay for the infrastructure, just like somebody had to pay for studio time to produce a song or movie or whatever. There's no such thing as a free lunch and the best we can hope for is an advertising supported model that will cost you some eyeball time as they force you to watch commercials.

      It's also stupid to talk about the internet as a single entity when it's a vast collection of entities. People do own or control parts of it but even so, if you want to monetize it you have to have something worth paying for and some way to persuade people to pay for it. Ad support again? Depends on what you're selling. Google gained success by realizing that you can't own it all but you can provide the ability to find it, but it's all supported by ad revenue, too.

      "Free internet access for all" ignores the fact that it cost money to provide access and more money to create content. The real question is how will the content providers - news organizations, movie studios, musicians, etc., get paid. Otherwise all you're talking about is leaving the door open to an empty house.

      --
      I have mod points. The reign of terror begins now.
    3. Re:More corporate BS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      To be fair though, nearly everyone who uses the phrase "Information wants to be free" uses it out of context.

    4. Re:More corporate BS by Zironic · · Score: 5, Informative

      Information wants to be free generally refers to libre, not gratis. The basic definition is that it's prohibitively difficult to keep things secret as technology progresses.

    5. Re:More corporate BS by commodore64_love · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I always thought "information wants to be free" was in the sense of the TV model. The information is there at no cost, but you still have to put-up with advertising to cover the expense. Like here on slashdot where I have ads across the top of the screen.

      BTW I thought it was funny when people complained the 1996 and 2002 US Olympics were too "commercialized" with all the ads around the stadiums. That is probably true but on the other hand, those were the only Olympics that didn't bankrupt their host cities (see Athens or Montreal - still haven't paid off the debt).

      It's nice to give stuff away for free, but *somebody* still has to pay the bill. I'd sooner it be the rich corporations rather than poor little-old me. So please - give me more ads. I'll do anything to avoid monthly bills (plus the taxes included therein).

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    6. Re:More corporate BS by commodore64_love · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      "Information wants to be liberated"?

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    7. Re:More corporate BS by kvezach · · Score: 3, Insightful

      First, "Information wants to be free" is IMO clueless in itself. Information doesn't want to be free any more than your doorknob wants to be free. You could as easily say "Information wants to be paid for".

      I think the right context is "information wants to be free" like "water wants to flow downhill". Sure, you can limit water's progress by building a dam, just like you can encrypt data or otherwise limit the access to information; but in the internet world, information tends to become free (pirates, cracking, etc). In that sense, information is more slippery than water, particularly on general purpose computers, but it is possible to limit it.

    8. Re:More corporate BS by arkane1234 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Everyone generalizes, it seems....

      --
      -- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
    9. Re:More corporate BS by arkane1234 · · Score: 1

      If your a bush-ite, that'd be the wording.

      Information is data, it's not an item, btw.

      I figure I should throw that out there before people start foaming at the mouth about how nothing is free.

      --
      -- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
    10. Re:More corporate BS by arkane1234 · · Score: 1

      Dude, seriously.
      I *came* from rural Maryland. You do have dialup/cable modem/DSL... Okay maybe not DSL depending on the location to the CO. Granted, it's not as high of quality as closer to Virginia but still... it's available.
      Hell, even satellite internet is available no matter where you are in the continental United States of America.

      --
      -- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
    11. Re:More corporate BS by farble1670 · · Score: 1

      And I find it fascinating that the corporate media usually refuses to even mention FOSS. We nerds are the only ones who know about Linux; when I mention to normal people that they can replace Windows with an OS that costs nothing and is free from viruses, and there is an office suite that is likewise free, and free media playes that are superior to WiMP, they're astounded.

      ubuntu, arguably the most advanced desktop linux, won't play DVDs out of the box. the process for making it play DVDs wouldn't be discoverable / doable by the "normal" user. if you are anything more than a flash gamer, linux is out. the only way to play netflix on linux is by running it in a windows VM. no itunes. and so on.

      things like that stop people dead in their tracks.

    12. Re:More corporate BS by nine-times · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You're mostly spot on. "information wants to be free" has always been idiotic without concise definitions of "information" and "free".

      You mean "precise"? Either way, by using the word "wants" (given that information doesn't literally "want" anything) they saying it letting you know that it's a generalization. Like "nature abhors a vacuum." That doesn't mean that there are no vacuums, but it's just describing a trend.

      So does "information wants to be free" mean? As I see it, what's being pointed out is that (a) unlike physical objects, information is easy to replicate and share; and (b) people like to share information. It's hard to keep secrets because people like to gossip and people love a scandal. It's hard to keep an idea from spreading because, if it's compelling, people will spread it. And it only has to get out once. If the information is leaked at all, it's so easy to replicate and spread that it will get out.

      And now that a song or movie are even easier to replicate than ideas, the same thing now applies to copyrighted materials. All you need is to have one unprotected copy leaked, and it will tend to get spread around. It can be very difficult to stop once it starts spreading.

    13. Re:More corporate BS by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>I *came* from rural Maryland. You do have dialup/cable modem/DSL..

      Even in the western mountain counties? That's what I was referring to as "rural". The only kind of high speed you have out there is the expensive Cellular type, hence my comment. Maybe I should change it:

      "Unless you live somewhere, like a ranch in rural Idaho, and have no other way to access the internet except via an expensive ~$100/month cellular plan. That's the path corporations are leading us down. Or more correctly: The US FCC is leading us down that path."

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    14. Re:More corporate BS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In a word: No.

      Information does not want to be liberated and does not need to be liberated. It simply becomes free. The saying expresses the natural tendency of (useful) information to become known to more people. It's as if information had a mind of its own and actively worked on becoming free.

      More on topic: There won't be an end to free and information still "wants to be free". The unwashed masses have never gotten the hang of free except where it was basically impossible to avoid, but that doesn't mean free information was scarce. The internet didn't become this great communication system because companies decided to give their stuff away. Companies decided to give their stuff away because they recognized that the internet was becoming this great communication medium. They didn't want to miss the opportunity, whatever that was going to be. Some companies may have sobered up and abandon the "free" model, but the internet still is this great communication medium just like it was before these companies joined the frenzy.

      Anyone who thinks we'll ever pay for generic information again has yet to understand that the market is global, the "means of production" are dirt cheap and the product has zero marginal cost. I'll leave figuring out what that does to the price as an exercise to the reader.

    15. Re:More corporate BS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not vague, it is an explicit reference to Bush & cronies use of the term 'liberated' to refer to post-Sadam Iraq. Your invocation of Obama is typical of your single-track mind, Obama never used the word like that.

    16. Re:More corporate BS by xTantrum · · Score: 1

      I didn't RTFA, nor any of the comments, only the summary like a true /.er. But people, seriously. Please get over apple and the Iphone. It's a big deal ONLY in north america. Globally Nokia and their Symbian OS still dominates and apple isn't even close to them. I'd say stop drinking the kool-aid but I what i really want to say is "Don't believe the hype."

      --
      $action = empty(PHP) ? backToC() : unset(PHP) ; "when the concrete cases are understood, the abstractions are readily
    17. Re:More corporate BS by dgatwood · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Information wants to be free generally refers to libre, not gratis. The basic definition is that it's prohibitively difficult to keep things secret as technology progresses.

      Actually, the original statement was referring to free as in beer, not free as in not secret. The original argument boils down to:

      • On the one hand, it costs money to create something. Information wants to be expensive.
      • On the other hand, if technology continues to get cheaper and cheaper, that makes it possible for a lot of people to create similar pieces of information and distribute them for less and less money. As a result, there will always be someone willing to create it for less money, so information wants to be free.

      The "libre" variant of it is a much weaker argument. It boils down to:

      • If I have information I want to keep secret, that information wants to be private.
      • If I tell my friends and they share it on Facebook, that information wants to be liberated....

      So technology makes it easier for people to make your embarrassing thoughts, words, and deeds available to people who you don't want to know about them. That doesn't really mean that the information wants to be spread around everywhere, though. It is still perfectly possible, even in a technological society, to avoid that information exposure. Just remember two rules:

      • What is done in public is public.
      • What is done in private is private unless/until you involve other people (and thus make it public).

      And keep those rules in mind when you're deciding whether or not you're going to go to that 4/20 party or get drunk and dance topless on the bar in front of the Girls Gone Wild cameras or give your social security number to somebody who doesn't really need it or tell your deepest, darkest secret to all your friends. If you pay attention to those two rules, your private information won't want to be free any more than it would be in an earlier stage of technological evolution.

      In short, it isn't true that all information wants to be liberated. It's more accurate to say that as technology advances, the divide between private and public information is further eroded. Occasionally this might mean that some private information falls into the chasm due to apathy, but far more frequently, this means that public information is really public and is much harder to pull back to the private side once exposed. It also means that people tend to be a lot more guarded about their most private information, which means that the truly private information wants even less to be liberated, and on the average, it's a wash.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    18. Re:More corporate BS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "information wants to free" is a phrase that is representative of the newfound ability to spread information at virtually no cost whatsoever. its not literal, dumbass. see: the so-called Streisand Effect. this is a perfect example of what this phrase really means. copyright is simply a way for a creator to profit. most famous artists did not profit during their lifetime, and that has nothing to do with the quality of their work. it should not be any different today (the relation) but we equate it because material/wealth is easier to process mentally than abstract quality. if no value can come of a creative work, it will most likely be a more genuine artistic expression. people may not realize this explicitly, but it is present in the "selling out" mentality involved with musicians and record labels. we don't need extravagance to live.

    19. Re:More corporate BS by 0123456 · · Score: 2, Informative

      ubuntu, arguably the most advanced desktop linux, won't play DVDs out of the box. the process for making it play DVDs wouldn't be discoverable / doable by the "normal" user.

      I don't know about Windows 7, but XP 'won't play DVDs out of the box' either. The difference is that Ubuntu can easily be configured to do so and only doesn't come with DVD playback enable by default because of US laws.

      no itunes. and so on.

      things like that stop people dead in their tracks.

      Given that iTunes is probably the worst media player in the known universe, I consider that a benefit.

    20. Re:More corporate BS by gfreeman · · Score: 1

      In a word: No.

      Information does not want to be liberated and does not need to be liberated. It simply becomes free.

      I guess in the same way that nature doesn't really abhor a vacuum, but you usually get to the same end result anyway.

      --
      Ceci n'est pas un sig.
    21. Re:More corporate BS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      nearly everyone != everyone

      --
      DUH!

    22. Re:More corporate BS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Windows is far inferior to Linux, which isn't only free as in beer but gives one true computing freedom.

      Oh please. Try copying and pasting more than text between apps written by different groups of people.

    23. Re:More corporate BS by Shadow+of+Eternity · · Score: 1

      That's because that's only half the quote. The original is: "On the one hand information wants to be expensive, because it's so valuable. The right information in the right place just changes your life. On the other hand, information wants to be free, because the cost of getting it out is getting lower and lower all the time. So you have these two fighting against each other". It is further elaborated later on that information also primarily wants to be free as in SPEECH even if the pull to be expensive is winning.

      --
      A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
    24. Re:More corporate BS by Grishnakh · · Score: 3, Funny

      The best things in life are free: Sunsets, air, rain, FOSS, indie music, walking hand in hand with your S.O., playing catch with your grandchild, etc. Nothing you can buy holds a candle to any of these.

      Your post is spot on, except for the above. For most men in our society, having female companionship is very expensive: $20,000 diamond rings, $100,000 weddings, giant wardrobes full of designer clothes, hundreds of shoes, etc. Luckily I found someone who isn't interested in all that and prefers to invest our money into more sensible things, but I feel sorry for all the guys who get hooked up with high-maintenance women who want to be treated like queens, even if it means going bankrupt.

    25. Re:More corporate BS by spitzak · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I have always thought this statement "information wants to be free" is intended to be read just like "water wants to flow downhill". That "water wants to flow downhill" does NOT mean "you should not build dams", in fact it conversely means "if you don't want the water to flow downhill, you HAVE to build a dam, and it will be difficult because you are going against what the water naturally wants to do".

      The fact that "information wants to be free" means that if some amazing DRM scheme is conconcted so that it is not possible for information to be copied in one direction without money flowing in the opposite direction, then that system will be extremely complex and huge, much like a dam.

      Of course the morons in the media and the public will never figure out what the statement is supposed to mean. Pretty sad.

    26. Re:More corporate BS by AliasMarlowe · · Score: 2, Funny

      "Information wants to be liberated"?

      Information should burn its bra...

      --
      Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
    27. Re:More corporate BS by ConceptJunkie · · Score: 1

      It's nice to give stuff away for free, but *somebody* still has to pay the bill. I'd sooner it be the rich corporations rather than poor little-old me. So please - give me more ads. I'll do anything to avoid monthly bills (plus the taxes included therein).

      Yikes! You do realize that the cost of all that advertising gets passed along to you through higher prices.

      Advertising, just like everything else, doesn't make something out of nothing. The best you can say about advertising, and of course it depends on what's being advertised, is that the rich usually finance it more than the poor. However, you don't know what it is you actually pay, and you do pay, for "free" content like broadcast TV.

      I read years ago that "free" broadcast TV actually cost each household something like $30/month on average. I don't know how that would have changed now that broadcast TV is a much smaller proportion of the media that we consume, but it's not free, and never was. It's just that its costs are hidden and indirect.

      So what you're really saying is that you'd rather not know how much you are paying for your media, rather than having the terms in simple straightforward language.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
    28. Re:More corporate BS by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      It's funny how people can take a simple statement like that one out of context, and turn it into some kind of half-baked ideology.

      There is some evidence that a simple transcription or translation error, turning "young woman" into "virgin", was a big factor behind the spread of Christianity...

    29. Re:More corporate BS by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      I do expect that I will catch some flak for citing that example. Nevertheless, I will speak the truth as best I know it.

    30. Re:More corporate BS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank you for restoring the meaning of this phrase. Yet another example of twisting an observation/meme into something it's not; the Overton Window in motion.

      Just like "hack the planet" and the "digital revolution" were co-opted and distorted to taint anyone who explored a system, tried to find out how it worked or were curious about the machines they knew were on the rise. Spin and spin again.

      It's hilarious/depressing to see this meme curved into "I should be able to take anything I want for free." Take, take. Consume, consume. Munch munch.

      Moo.

    31. Re:More corporate BS by farble1670 · · Score: 1

      XP 'won't play DVDs out of the box' either

      not sure what you mean. maybe it's that XP doesn't come with a DVD playing app? XP certainly plays DVDs. all i did was install the free VLC app.

      it's easier on ubuntu? i loved how movieplayer just quit with no error when i tried to play a DVD. not until i ran it from the command line (something which the average PC user would never do) did i get some strange error code that in itself did nothing to indicate the root of the problem was. i was at least able to google for a solution then. the solution then was to first install a package then run some script under sudo root. again, great stuff for the average PC user.

    32. Re:More corporate BS by LaRainette · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's always the same argument.
      You cannot (try to) demonstrate the superiority of Windows over any Linux distro by simply saying people won't be able to do exactly like in windows and get the same thing.

      Of course they can't : IT'S A DIFFERENT OS !
      If this was possible than the aforementioned Linux distribution would be ... Windows itself and then its only benefit would be to be free, BUT since the people who MAKE the Linux distribution are trying to innovate they won't copy/paste an OS just to get new users.

      What's amazing (and terrible) about your argument is that you make all this innovation sound like a BAD thing...

      Bottom line is : You can playback DVD on Ubuntu by installing ONE package that is proposed at the first start-up, and Rhythmbox is pretty similar to itunes and does a great job as an easy to use music player/library.

    33. Re:More corporate BS by LaRainette · · Score: 1
      LOl your post was spot on UNTIL the above :

      for most men in our society, having female companionship is very expensive: $20,000 diamond rings, $100,000 weddings

      "Most people" don't have $100,000 weddings, some because they don't want to (that would be me for example) but "most" because they cannot afford it.

      Notice how when I use most I actually mean the vast majority of the group (i.e. the acual meaning of most) whereas when you use most you refer to some sub-group (that amount for very little apparently) that probably look a lot like you.

      Don't take it too personally I'm not trying to bash but honestly if most Americans could afford $100,000 weddings your country would be in much better shape.
      Get a grip on reality :)

    34. Re:More corporate BS by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      It was a bit of an exaggeration, admittedly. However, I've heard of lots of middle-class people having $25k and $50k weddings. I've also heard of lots of people having weddings with a couple hundred guests. It's pretty hard to do that for less than $10k these days.

      Why does anyone need a wedding with hundreds of guests?

      Personally, my wedding, in Vegas, had 5 guests. Only our most immediate family was invited (i.e., parents and my wife's daughter), not even siblings. Everyone else got to read about it later.

      Of course, nowadays, with people now unable to get HELOCs to pay for such extravagances, I imagine many people, if they're even getting married at all, are opting for the small, simple weddings like my own.

    35. Re:More corporate BS by icebraining · · Score: 1

      You can install VLC on Ubuntu... just open the Software Center, click on Sound & Video, scroll down to find "VLC media player" and click the arrow to install.
      http://spiceminesofkessel.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/screenshot-usc-vlc.png

      It's arguably easier than on XP...

    36. Re:More corporate BS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you honestly believe that you need to invest money to get a woman, then it's not a relationship. You might as well hire a prostitute at that point.

      No wonder the average marriage in the United States is about 7 years.

    37. Re:More corporate BS by jesset77 · · Score: 1

      A WHOOSH is you! :>

      --
      People willing to trade their freedom of expression for temporary entertainment deserve neither and will lose both.
    38. Re:More corporate BS by jesset77 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Information should burn its bra...

      Information should tits or GTFO. >:V

      --
      People willing to trade their freedom of expression for temporary entertainment deserve neither and will lose both.
    39. Re:More corporate BS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For most men in our society, having female companionship is very expensive: $20,000 diamond rings, $100,000 weddings, giant wardrobes full of designer clothes, hundreds of shoes, etc. Luckily I found someone who isn't interested in all that and prefers to invest our money into more sensible things, but I feel sorry for all the guys who get hooked up with high-maintenance women who want to be treated like queens, even if it means going bankrupt.

      Money wants to be free!

    40. Re:More corporate BS by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      I know where it came from and what it means, but it's still as stupid as saying "my car wants more gasoline" or "my printer wants more ink". IMO anthropomorphising anything whatever is clueless.

    41. Re:More corporate BS by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >> If your a bush-ite, that'd be the wording.

      Sorry but I don't see the connection to Bush. If this is some vague reference to the war, I now take this opportunity to remind you that Obama has made the war even larger than it was (sent more troops/spent more money). These men are two halves of the same asshole.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    42. Re:More corporate BS by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>You do realize that the cost of all that advertising gets passed along to you through higher prices.

      Yeah but I also realize I do very little shopping, so most of the burden is borne by those who are wealthy and spend a lot (like Paris Hilton or your company's boss). Also it's not as if advertising would suddenly stop. Over in England people pay ~$300 per year to support TV, and yet they still get bombarded with ads for products. So then they are essentially paying twice - Once through the fee and again through higher prices to support ads.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    43. Re:More corporate BS by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      The point is the internet was never free. Students pay for access via tuition, libraries offer "free" access supported by local tax dollars.

      I remember the BBSes back in the '90s, many of which were defacto ISPs that didn't charge for access. If I get a thing from you for free it's free whether you pay for it or get it free yourself.

      There's no such thing as a free lunch

      Then how do rabbits eat? That phrase has meaning only in its original context, which was when a salesman takes you to lunch you're going to pay for that lunch one way or another. But it has morphed into a meme that is completely inaccurate. As I said, the best things in life ARE free. Nobody has to pay a dime for the rain that waters your garden.

      It's also stupid to talk about the internet as a single entity when it's a vast collection of entities.

      By that measure it's stupid to think of your car as a single entity when it's made of thousands of discrete parts.

      if you want to monetize it you have to have something worth paying for and some way to persuade people to pay for it.

      That's true, but that "if" is a huge word. Most of us don't want to monetize it. The internet wasn't created to make money, it was created to exchange informaton, and that's what it's still best at.

      "Free internet access for all" ignores the fact that it cost money to provide access and more money to create content.

      If I have two balls and no bat, and you have two bats and no balls, and I trade a ball for a bat, both of us come out ahead. Anywhere with an internet jukebox already pays for the access, and it not only costs nothing to share that access, it gains revenue by drawing customers while the internet jukebox brings revenue directly. Again, nobody loses and everybody wins. Greed is NOT good; greed is killing entire industries.

      And it "costs money to creat content"? It dodn't cost me a dime to create this.

    44. Re:More corporate BS by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      For most men in our society, having female companionship is very expensive

      That's been true for me all my life, until a week ago. I always joke "the cheapest sex I ever had cost me a draft beer, the most expensive cost me a house, a car, and part of my pension." lately I've had some women who really drained my wallet.

      But I met a lady last week who's been paying MY way! And it really feels strange, too. I really don't like it; I'm taking her to a nice restaraunt tomorrow just so I don't feel like a gigolo. And I know couples so poor they eat at the St John's Breadline. Wooing a woman is usually not free, but the walk in the park is.

    45. Re:More corporate BS by geekoid · · Score: 1

      You seem to be assuming free == no value.

      This is false.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    46. Re:More corporate BS by ConceptJunkie · · Score: 1

      OK. It sounds like you know what you're talking about even if your post implied you might not. And if you're a light consumer, then it's definitely a good strategy for you.

      I hate advertising as much as the next guy, and I avoid it as much as possible, especially when it's done intrusively and annoyingly.

      You know who I think does advertising well? Hulu. I found that AdBlock actually worked on Hulu's ads, and I unblocked it. I did it because Hulu runs a reasonable number of ads, which are by-and-large not annoying. /. does too, but here I have the "legit" option to turn them off.

      But they are the exception rather than the rule. Most advertisements annoy me or even make me angry rather than entice me to buy things. They are loud, obnoxious and distracting, and I almost literally cannot read something on a Web page when there's an animated ad on the page.

      To those people who think blocking ads is evil... there's no law forcing you to look at ads, although I'm sure some Congressman or Senator is looking at his dwindling campaign funds and wondering if he could pull it off. It's a business strategy. If it works, good for the business and its customers. If it doesn't, well, then there needs to be another business model. I'll pay (directly) for things or do without if that's the option. But we are still free to decide what we watch/read/hear and what we don't, so don't try to guilt-trip me that I'm cheating, or stealing.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
    47. Re:More corporate BS by randomencounter · · Score: 1

      Information hates being anthropomorphized, you insensitive clod!

      --
      Forget diamonds, copyright is forever.
    48. Re:More corporate BS by mcvos · · Score: 1

      For most men in our society, having female companionship is very expensive: $20,000 diamond rings, $100,000 weddings, giant wardrobes full of designer clothes, hundreds of shoes, etc.

      What society is that, where most people can afford that? Or do you live in a country that has a dollar that's worth about US$0.10?

      Where I live, you can marry for free if you want to. $10,000 gets you a very nice wedding with over a hundred guests. Wedding rings tend to be plain gold (a couple of hundred dollars if they have a unique design), though wedding tattoos are gaining in popularity.

      Of course if you want more than that, you can always choose to spend more. But if you don't, then don't. Don't go bitching about the choices you make.

      To me, a walk with my wife costs me time that I don't have, and maybe $20 for a babysitter, but otherwise it's free.

    49. Re:More corporate BS by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      No, I'm just commenting on what I see other Americans doing (though admittedly, this was all before the mortgage meltdown, so that's probably put a stop to most of that kind of spending). Even $10k for a wedding sounds horribly expensive to me. Why do you need 100 guests? And how many women do you see with plain gold wedding bands? That's a male thing; women always want giant diamonds.

      I'm not bitching about my choices; I spent far less than even your numbers. I'm bitching about what I see other Americans doing.

    50. Re:More corporate BS by mcvos · · Score: 1

      Even $10k for a wedding sounds horribly expensive to me. Why do you need 100 guests?

      To share. It's a choice. One of the greatest weddings I've attended (other than my own) was probably far, far cheaper than that. A farm, a caterer, and a hundred people eating out in the field on simple wooden benches.

      And how many women do you see with plain gold wedding bands? That's a male thing; women always want giant diamonds.

      Not in my country. Men and women traditionally wear the same design (though men a few sizes larger). I don't think I've ever seen anyone with a diamond wedding ring. It seems silly to turn something so serious into something so garish.

      I'm not bitching about my choices; I spent far less than even your numbers. I'm bitching about what I see other Americans doing.

      It's their choice. As long as they can afford it and want to pay that much, why not let them? As long as they're aware of the choices they're making.

    51. Re:More corporate BS by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Yep, living in a Community Property State can be very expensive if you have to get a divorce and don't have a good pre-nuptial.

    52. Re:More corporate BS by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      It's their choice. As long as they can afford it and want to pay that much, why not let them? As long as they're aware of the choices they're making.

      They can do what they want, but it only reinforces my previous point that female companionship is very, very, very expensive (here in the USA). After all, it isn't the men that want giant diamond rings and expensive weddings with hundreds of guests and a dozen bridesmaids with matching gowns and a $5,000 wedding cake.

      Not in my country. Men and women traditionally wear the same design (though men a few sizes larger). I don't think I've ever seen anyone with a diamond wedding ring. It seems silly to turn something so serious into something so garish.

      Women here in the USA are different, apparently. They expect engagement rings worth 2 months of the man's salary. DeBeers has had a very successful marketing campaign here for the last century. Again, having female companionship here is very, very expensive for most men. And you're not writing anything which refutes my argument.

    53. Re:More corporate BS by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      You misunderstand; that isn't my position at all. What I said was "I'm sick of the corporate whores and the corporate media they own turning the world into a bunch of money worshiping greedheads who believe "free=worthless". The best things in life are free: Sunsets, air, rain, FOSS, indie music, walking hand in hand with your S.O., playing catch with your grandchild, etc. Nothing you can buy holds a candle to any of these."

      Some people do, however, equate free with worthless, and those people are pathetically blind to reality. I pity the greedheads who think everything should be monetized and value money over love and friendship. The best things in life are, indeed, free.

    54. Re:More corporate BS by 3vi1 · · Score: 1

      >> ubuntu, arguably the most advanced desktop linux, won't play DVDs

      Linux won't play DVDs (until you simply install a package) for the same reason Win7 won't play Blu-rays out of the box: Licensing. It has nothing to do with how advanced the OS is.

      >> if you are anything more than a flash gamer, linux is out.

      No, Linux is only out if you want immediate access to the latest cutting-edge Windows-only game. It's perfectly fine for playing the dozens of games that have native ports (Urban Terror, World of Goo, Nexuiz, Warsow, Second Life, etc.), and many Windows games...

      http://www.codeweavers.com/products/cxgames
      http://appdb.winehq.org/
      http://www.cedega.com/

      I played EverQuest and World of Warcraft from it for years.

      >> the only way to play netflix on linux is by running it in a windows VM.

      Just another great reason to boycott NetFlix. Seriously - who doesn't have on-demand movies assailing them from a half-dozen directions nowadays. I spend most of my time catching up on old series via Linux with XBMC or Boxee.

      >> no itunes.

      It used to work under Wine, but I don't think anyone cares about it anymore since there are multiple alternatives that works natively with Linux (or any OS with a web browser). I use Amarok every day and don't miss iTunes at all.

    55. Re:More corporate BS by farble1670 · · Score: 1

      yes, but VLC can't play a DVD until you install the restricted extras package. the experience is the same as movie player. it dies without an error (or some obtuse error, i forget) until you install the package and sudo some script.

    56. Re:More corporate BS by tbannist · · Score: 1

      Actually, it was and still is, quite clever. The point of "information wants to be free" is to explicitly indicate that information has an almost alive capability to escape control. It's very difficult to make someone "unknow" something. It's so difficult, that unknow isn't even a real word.

      Sure, the phrase "Information wants to be free" can be used tritely and certainly has been, but it also has a certain Zen insightfulness. Sure, literally, information can't want anything, but figuratively, the phrase captures the difficulty and expense required to keep people from sharing information. "People like to share" fails at capturing many of the subtler implications of "Information wants to be free".

      --
      Fanatically anti-fanatical
    57. Re:More corporate BS by icebraining · · Score: 1

      Sorry, I didn't spot the DVD part.

      If you want to play DVDs and you live in the US, you have to be aware that libdvdcss goes against the DMCA, and hence it's illegal (both on Windows XP or Ubuntu).

      You should buy a licensed player like the Fluendo Dvd Player which comes in a .deb package ready to be installed with a double click.

    58. Re:More corporate BS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's very difficult to make someone "unknow" something. It's so difficult, that unknow isn't even a real word.

      The real word is "forget".

    59. Re:More corporate BS by mcvos · · Score: 1

      It still seems odd to me that in the US, paid-for female companionship is so common as you suggest. It's by no means illegal here, but my impression is most women would have too much pride for that. Cultural differences I guess.

    60. Re:More corporate BS by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Sure, the phrase "Information wants to be free" can be used tritely and certainly has been

      That's exactly the problem I have with it.

      "People like to share" fails at capturing many of the subtler implications of "Information wants to be free".

      But "when information isn't free, neither are you" doesn't.

  32. Trying to put the cat back in the bag by elrous0 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Well, Rupert Murdoch has attempted to be the first to start to charge again for his newspaper content. But the conventional wisdom is that if you offer your content for free, then start charging again while your competitors don't, that you're going to be the sacrificial lamb who ends up crashing and burning. Certainly, if Murdoch succeeds, his competitors will be more than happy to follow suit, but no one else is exactly lining up until they see that he doesn't fall on his ass.

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    1. Re:Trying to put the cat back in the bag by delinear · · Score: 1

      The only way you can compete with free is by offering better. That's where I think Murdoch will fail. I don't think people would mind paying a sensible price (and given the distribution costs and the fact that it'll still be ad supported, "sensible" for online news should be next to free anyway - after all the cost of the traditional newspaper just pays for the paper and the distribution, it doesn't pay for the reporting) for good quality reporting, but you can't sell us the same crap back that we wouldn't read when it was free and hope that the cost association will somehow lend it an air of value.

    2. Re:Trying to put the cat back in the bag by ducomputergeek · · Score: 1

      Murdoch does have a couple of unique products like the Wall Street Journal. If you look at comparable sites like The Economist or FT, you'll notice that they too charge. Sure, The Economist gives a 14 day pass and the FT allow you to read 10 articles per 30 days for free, but if you want to access their content beyond that, it costs $$$ just like it the Wall Street Journal. This is a market that doesn't expect free information and the competition isn't nor has ever been trying to give away their information for free.

      And I'll tell you why: unlike most of this crap from the AP newswire, the stories you find in those publication are ones you usually won't find anywhere else. They provide good information, and good information in the world of business is worth $$$. I can't think of another publication that does a better job of giving a decent overview of what is going on in the world than The Economist. You routinely find stories about what is happening in parts of Asia and Africa that you won't find from other sources, especially MSM in the US.

      So when his properties like the WSJ wants to charge, they are actually keeping up with the Joneses as neither the Economist nor the FT give full access for free and never have.

      --
      "The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
  33. That was 10 years ago by mdwh2 · · Score: 1

    Most people don't have a smartphone. Most people have a basic mobile where you press a few buttons and talk to people - that's all.

    Note that a cheap supposedly non-smart phone (so called "feature" phone) these days let's you access the Internet, runs full web browsers, runs apps. In fact it's been that way since at least 2005, and these days such phones even have touchscreens. The distinction of "smartphone" today is really just to refer to "a high end phones" (e.g., faster processors, more features like wireless), or in some cases just a matter of marketing (e.g., Nokia label Symbian as "smartphone", S40 as "feature phone"; the original Iphone was a smartphone simply because Apple marketed it as such, despite it lacking many features).

    I'm not sure if you can even get "dumb" phones that can only talk and text these days, but they'd be at the very cheapest end of the market.

    Not that I disagree with your comment - I still dislike how most phones are locked down, which is why I'm glad of things like netbooks, where you can run full open source operating systems, rather than them being locked down toys.

    1. Re:That was 10 years ago by IANAAC · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure if you can even get "dumb" phones that can only talk and text these days, but they'd be at the very cheapest end of the market.

      Yes, of course you can still get these types of phones. I got one last year. I spent some time in a very rural area of northern Wisconsin that had no service for my ATT Blackberry. I went out and got a cheap Kyocera phone from Tracfone. Cost me about 15 bucks, I think. All it does it voice and SMS. It does them both fantastically though. And the battery lasts at least 5 days.

      After using the Blackberry for so long, I had forgotten 1) how lightweight a simple phone is, 2) how long the battery lasts and 3) that when you don't have all the bluetoothing, web-browsing, emailing, picture-sending, Facebooking, Foresquaring, whatever else is popular application to hog up resources, the phone is much more stable.

      That said, when I'm at the cabin, I do tend to use my Nokia N800 together with the Tracfone when I head into town, so I'm not saving anything when it comes to bulk. The N800 is getting old, but still serves its purpose. And when I get back to civilization, it's actually kind of disappointing going back to the Blackberry for web/email access.

    2. Re:That was 10 years ago by petes_PoV · · Score: 1

      cheap supposedly non-smart phone (so called "feature" phone) these days let's you access the Internet, runs full web browsers, runs apps

      Yes, you're correct. However almost nobody uses those features. Unless you buy something like a Backberry, iphone or a high end job specifically to run applications most people, even with the phone's abiity to do so, don't bother. I don't even use the GPS on my phone. I have never felt the need to explore it's features, functions, inbuilt apps, internet connectivity, ringtones, games or any of the other stuff it comes with - or could be loaded with. Like most people that I know, all I want/need is to speak to people, send the occasional text, take the occasional photo and sometimes listem to music.Most people I know, see at work, sit next to on trains, notice in pubs or anywhere else don't feel the need to constantly fiddle with their phones, either.

      It's not an age / generational thing, it's just that they don't offer anything compelling that's we need or want.

      --
      politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
  34. I'm not sure by MBGMorden · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I no longer really use it that much, but when I did use my iPod Touch to get App-store apps, the VAST majority of the apps that I downloaded and used were in fact, free. Not as in speech, but as in beer at least. It seems like for the vast majority of things that I wanted, there were either people willing to donate their time, or who were hoping to recoup their costs via another method (IIRC, Fandango had out a movie show time listing app for free that was subsidized by the ability to buy tickets online to most of those movies).

    Look at Android: a very popular cellphone OS that is in fact, Free.

    I personally see "Free" taking off even more now. PARTICULARLY on desktop PC's. Smartphones, with their varied landscape, are essentially teaching users to deal with different platforms. If they can get to the web, manage their photos, and perform basic services, then they're fine with that. If the UI is a little different between new phones, then no biggie. Many content providers are doing the same too. They can't code their websites to IE6 and claim "most everybody is using that anyways". These days LOTS of people will be hitting that site with a phone, and hence sites are by necessity going to have to be coded to be more tolerant of various browser rendering engines. Once that user mindset is starts to bleed over into desktops a bit, I think a tolerance for something "a little different looking" will come. When that tolerance gets here, the Linux option on a new PC is going to look very nice if the user can save $25-50 on the total cost.

    In short, I think we're just moving from a de-facto single vendor model to a fractured model. Sure, some new pay solution will arise here, but I think the door is wide open for OSS here too.

    --
    "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
  35. The Internet as mass appetites by hessian · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If you want to know why the "Information wants to be free" attitude is dying, it is because the Internet has been taken over by business interests; the original network of academics and hackers is just a tiny fraction of what the Internet has now become.

    If you want to know why that happened, look at the post-1996 audience for the internet: people who would otherwise be watching television.

    They're looking for entertainment and socialization, not "information" in the colloquial sense of knowledge-bearing data.

    1. Re:The Internet as mass appetites by digitalsushi · · Score: 1

      I found this insightful enough to save your post's id for later reference. It's a simple point but I believe that expounds its genius. I think this 1996ish delimiter deserves an official name. I have no suggestions.

      --
      slashdot: where everyone yells sarcastic metaphors to themselves to understand the issue
    2. Re:The Internet as mass appetites by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      Timing's a bit off, probably not enough to make a difference. But the idea is there. Eternal September.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    3. Re:The Internet as mass appetites by king+neckbeard · · Score: 1

      Getting information is still a very common task on the internet. The most popular site in the world is Google, and most everyone goes to Wikipedia on a regular basis. The audience is perhaps not as scholarly as the earlier crowd, but the information in question is reaching a much larger audience, and often in a more interactive way.

      --
      This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    4. Re:The Internet as mass appetites by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      Eternal September is a myth.

      I was on the Usenet in the late 80s, and it was no different then versus post-1995. You can confirm that yourself by doing a GoogleGroups search through the old posts. There's no real difference in quality in 1989 versus 1999.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    5. Re:The Internet as mass appetites by nlawalker · · Score: 1

      Nail on the head. 20 or 30 years ago, "information" meant something on a banker's spreadsheet or in a physicist's journal. Now it's literally everything that doesn't have a physical presence - music, TV shows, video games, your "social graph," stored preferences, conversations and connections with your friends. Why wasn't it "information" before, but now it is? Because we now have the ability to store it, transfer it and use it almost whenever and wherever we want for little cost in both time and money, regardless of size or format. Many businesses don't just run on information - the information *is* their business.

      Information may want to be free, but the people who generate, organize and present that information want to be paid.

    6. Re:The Internet as mass appetites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nail on the head. 20 or 30 years ago, "information" meant something on a banker's spreadsheet or in a physicist's journal. Now it's literally everything that doesn't have a physical presence. . .

      Information has had a much larger definition since over 60 years ago! Just because you don't believe/like that definition doesn't mean others weren't using it.

  36. On a side note... by chill · · Score: 5, Informative

    The 5th Annual World eBook Fair is currently underway from July 04 - August 04 with over 3,500,000 PDF eBooks available for, ahem, FREE.

    --
    Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
  37. Free is not free. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I will gladly pay to have things freed.

    And there will always be "business men" trying to prove you have to give your gold to them. This is so old there's a fable about it!

    Seriously, confusing these two meanings (free and free) can only be for two reasons:
    - malice, if there's an agenda (think M$) or
    - incompetence -- yet can any publication afford such mistake?

  38. Re:Not end to anything, rather, start of rapid cha by gambino21 · · Score: 2, Informative

    the rhythm of change is beating faster and faster as time goes on.

    Alvin Toffler wrote about this in 1970 in his book Future Shock. Technology is advancing at a faster and faster rate, and his prediction is that at some point technology will be changing faster than many people can adapt. This will have an effect similar to culture shock where the technology around these people has changed so much that they are not able to function normally in society.

  39. Lack of capacity to pay these mortgages will... by alex_vegas · · Score: 1

    ...hardly result in an inability to sell them. Apps aren't a gold mine, they're a carnival sideshow. Big data is where the money is going to be, apps are just part of the "feeder" infrastructure.

  40. Freedom? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That is a worship word. Yang worship. You will not speak it.

  41. That's bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If anything it's the opposite; there has never been more open source-software and -users as there is today, which is what matters. Open source software depend on its community to evolve, if that community is bigger than yesterday, then I don't see any "end" anywhere. So what if every buffoon got a pc these days, making the percentile of the population using open source smaller? If that makes you proclaim that open source is dead, then you don't understand the mechanics of open source.
     
    I couldn't care less about market-share, obtain user-criticality and that'll fix itself.

  42. Mixing up DATA and INFORMATION. by wvmarle · · Score: 2, Interesting

    So many people talking about "information wants to be free" do not seem to understand what "information" really is, and the difference with "data".

    Information wants to be free - that adagio stands, has always stood, and will always stand. The problem is that people do not know how to distinguish between data and information. The data is just a representation of information.

    Take for example this post: as soon as I posted it it becomes a piece of data on some server rented by the /. company. Just that: data. How to get to that data? You need a computer with Internet connection. Now that connection may become more expensive, getting to a web site may become more expensive (e.g. subscriptions), but the information that I give here wants to be free.

    For example the following sentence: "Spain won the world cup football 2010 by beating the Dutch team in the finals 1:0". That contains information on the world cup football. It is also a piece of data. Getting to that piece of data (the actual sentence) may become more expensive, the information in it (winner of the world cup, score) can be re-told over say the phone when someone who read this is talking to a friend. That information bit never got more expensive. It wants to be free. The information spreads because people like to talk to one another (irrelevant of the medium), and they like to tell each other things the other party didn't know yet. To discuss facts, to discuss bits and pieces of information they learnt through other channels. Such as the world cup line above - it won't be new to many people here but that's not the point. It's a bit of information that is stored in a chunk of data.

    On the other hand, data is just that. Lots of numbers, letters, whatever. An LP contains two immensely long wavy grooves, typically representing some kind of music. An mp3 file could be a digital representation of the same sound. Both are different representations of the same data, they may each not be free (cost of the record, restrictions by DRM).

    The adagio also says WANTS TO. Information is, thus, not necessarily free. It wants to be free. In the extreme this is seen by the "Streisand effect" where attempts to stop spreading information leads to more people spreading it, including the information bit that someone is trying to block this spreading. In the digital world this often happens by the direct copying of digital files containing said information, previously it often resulted in headlines in the news papers talking about it - all with the same information, all with a different wording (the letters on a news print are a form of data in itself, and as we all know the newspaper you have to buy but who won the elections you hear for free from your friends).

    So who-ever wants to use this adagio, please remember these core points here:

    • Information != data
    • It is free as in freedom, not necessarily free of charge,
    • And while certain information may be restricted, there is always the risk of leaks, and if it is leaked it will spread like wildfire.

    And please stop discussing pricing of data plans...

  43. Information cost $$$, it's a vice by kernelcache · · Score: 1

    Information costs people $$$ whether you obtain the data yourself and convert it to information, or if you simply obtain the information; both take time to obtain, interpret, and ultimately make a decision on. It seems that people think that free information is like a free lawnmower on craigslist. People who are too plugged into the information will suffer massive withdrawal when their "information drug" becomes too expensive for them to obtain. We could see that people who are unable to access Facebook, Twitter, Digg, iTunes, etc. will in fact have a life crisis. Information moderation is key since it does cost you time, but information overload, particularly information which may become too expensive will be the next vice for this generation. I can see it now, bringing back Crocket and Tubbs for Miam"I" vice.

  44. If you have to force me not to copy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you have to force me not to copy, transmit or distribute then the data DOES want to be free. Yes, nobody is anthropomorphizing it, but it still wants to be free in the same way as "nature abhors a vacuum" or "energy wants to travel in the direction of lower heat".

    If you have to force me not to communicate, then data does want to be free and you have to work to stop it moving about.

  45. the rules of economics still applies by circletimessquare · · Score: 2, Insightful

    if i stand in the middle of the desert with bottles of water for $100 each, i will have a profitable business

    but if i stand in front of a sparkling clean fresh water lake and try to sell bottles of water for $.10 each, i will be out of business

    when i can point and click and share thousands of files effortlessly and freely with any teenager from gdansk to johannesburg, i really don't know how or why someone is supposed to force me to pay for that under a dead distribution model and the laws that are made for that dead era

    so its simple economics folks: infinite free supply means there is no price point. the internet is an unlimited resource, unless they fundamentally break the internet inexorably (and thereby destroy that which makes the internet attratice to anyone)

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
    1. Re:the rules of economics still applies by vakuona · · Score: 1

      This is essentially the reason we have copyright. I can spend 10 years writing a book, carefully going over every chapter and making sure my story is good, and enjoyable for my target audience. But back then, anyone with a printing press could just print and sell my book and I not make a dime. There is something wrong with that, and that is the reason we have copyright. It is a good compromise to me: make a deal with the creator and pay him to distribute the work. You need incentives so that this content can be produced.

      If you can live without it, then do so.

    2. Re:the rules of economics still applies by plasticsquirrel · · Score: 1

      There is a thing, though, called an original content creator, and that person is not in infinite supply. These people should be able to earn a minimal living if they produce quality material enjoyed by a significant number of people. The problem is that limited original content meets unlimited bandwidth and file sharing.

      Maybe a writer produces a book -- a great novel that took him years, like Lord of the Rings, but with blackjack and hookers. Everyone loves this book, but people just grab the PDF from BitTorrent. "Book publishing is not a service I need. I can readily download the PDF scan." Yet, they want to benefit and enjoy the fruits of this person's hard work. Some alternate method needs to be created to allow creative people to make a profit of some kind.

      Or imagine it is the 1980's, and a musician produces an album on tape. Only one person actually buys it, and the rest copy it from him. Now the musician only profits for part of one sale. The listeners could easily respond, "Tape production is not a service I need. I can readily copy tapes easily." Yet, the service is actually the initial production of the music, which is not free and takes significant time and effort. That sharing becomes a black hole, sucking up any effort that was put into producing the original product.

      I don't see solution to this, really, and I have yet to hear a good one from the Slashdot crowd. Some people will say, "Then they shouldn't produce albums, just play live!" Yet, it seems that people still want to listen to albums and enjoy them, they just don't want to pay for any of the effort that went into making them. More effort needs to be put into solutions that will allow starving artists to get the means to be able to make that initial product at least.... Recording studios are not free, and it is very expensive to obtain all the required equipment to emulate one.

      --
      Systemd: the PulseAudio of init systems
  46. OT - pls mod me down by mcgrew · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    I really wish you folks would stop writing "noone". It's two words, no one. "Noone" reads like "noon" and slows reading down.

    Mods, my "no karma bonus" button doesn't seem to work, so please mod me offtopic. Thx.

    1. Re:OT - pls mod me down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I really wish you folks would stop writing "noone". It's two words, no one.

      Peter Noone would beg to differ.

  47. Vulture capitalists wanna get paid... by Dr_Ken · · Score: 2, Insightful

    is the new meme for the internet? Fuck 'em. If they wanna get paid let them invent something I really need or want. Fuck 'em if they don't. Their desire to be billionaires is not a claim against me.

    --
    "If you want to know what happens to you when you die, go look at some dead stuff."
  48. Re:Not end to anything, rather, start of rapid cha by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

    >>>FutureShock..... they are not able to function normally in society.

    Or laugh at the fools scribbling to record notes in the $2000 iPhones/iPads (cost includes yearly fee), while they do the exact-same function with a 50 cent paper tablet + pen. I became an engineer because I love technology, but at the same time that love has to be moderated by common sense. New technologies should only be adopted if they are better than the old technology.

    Recently a former teacher came to me (and others) for advice on a laptop for her college kid. She wanted to buy an Apple iMac, but I dissuaded her. First I said she could get an equivalent IBM PC compatible for just $370, or twice the memory as the mac for $450. Next I told her that laptops tend to have short lives, so I would recommend a Desktop not a laptop.

    Anyway she ignored me, listened to her daughter's pleading, and got a $1200 iMac. Now I like Macs and consider them decent machines, but I see no reason to spend over 3 times as much money for equivalent function. Likewise I see no need to buy a PalmPilot, iPad, or similar gadget when a 50 cent tablet works just as well.

    --
    "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
  49. The future is POP AYCE by RevWaldo · · Score: 1

    I should really say that's where we are now. Cable/satellite, music, books/magazines, video, DVDs, games, etc. etc. etc. Paying a monthly fee to one or more providers for all-you-can-eat access to content. The monthly fee's automatically deducted from your bank account and unless you're skint you kinda forget about it like sales tax. Some users swamp the system while other use it only occasionally; profits are divided up to the content providers based on usage. "To each according to his ability, to each according to his need," to paraphrase a certain economist. Information may not be free, but it'll still remain relatively inexpensive. (Unless you're talking about useful information - business research, racing tips, etc. - then yeah, you gotta pay.)

    .

    1. Re:The future is POP AYCE by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      I should really say that's where we are now. Cable/satellite, music, books/magazines, video, DVDs, games, etc. etc. etc. Paying a monthly fee to one or more providers for all-you-can-eat access to content.

      Except it will never work because everyone wants to be the man in the middle sucking up their percentage and no-one wants to be commoditised by offering their media to multiple different services who'll offer it at discount prices.

      Look at the number of digital download systems for games, for example: a few years back there was basically just Steam and any decent game was likely to go there, now there are dozens and even some games on Steam require you to log in to multiple different online gaming systems in order to run. It's going from convenient to a disaster zone as every company wants to be 'The One'.

  50. what's hilarious... by roc97007 · · Score: 1

    ...is that the article immediately following talks about Google's new free app development kit for Android. Google seems to be doing well, so far, with "free".

    --
    Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
  51. Re:Not end to anything, rather, start of rapid cha by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

    Likewise I see no need to buy a PalmPilot, iPad, or similar gadget when a 50 cent tablet works just as well.

    You don't see how a PDA could be more useful than a pen and notepad? Even for taking notes?

    I don't get this attitude. I'm carrying around a bookshelf's worth of information that I can instantly search, copy and paste, share or back up to another location if I need to, all in my pocket. And some people say "why don't you just use a pen and paper." I just don't get it.

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  52. Information by sexconker · · Score: 1

    Information does not want to be free.
    It is information. It does not want anything. It does not think. It does not feel.

    People do not want information to be free.
    Certain people do not want information to be free.

    Certain people want certain information to be free.

    Fat, greasy, sweaty nerds want information such as movies, games, software, and industry standards to be free.

    The very same fat, greasy, sweaty nerds will form a lynch mob if you so much as quote their blog without releasing the full source code of the original (and that of your version if you've edited it), or if you neglect to put a big fat Creative Commons or GPL Version 3.2.76.1058 logo on your site.

    Get over yourselves.
    Pay for things.
    Recognize that most of your "free and open" software was built by copying (directly from code or indirectly from a design perspective) software that cost millions of dollars and several years to develop.
    Respect IP law or get it changed if you have actual, reasoned arguments against its current form and implementation.

    Do NOT claim that "information" want to be "free".
    Do NOT endlessly spout "Free as in beer, or free as in free?" or other such moronisms.
    Do NOT mod me anything other than Troll or Flamebait, because this is slashdot, and common sense must be attacked relentlessly.

  53. Reactionary past the History lesson. by Irick · · Score: 1

    I enjoyed the lead-in to the article, some interesting tidbits here and there, but beyond that it just started degrading into something tantamount to FUD. Claiming the end of the open web when in fact, the things that they tout as replacing it are products of the open mentality. Public APIs to otherwise closed systems (Facebook, Twitter) allow a degree of choice when selecting your preferred interface and allow easy scripting to retrieve that information and freely use it in scripts, bots, and other such projects. Interoperability is a large part of "free information" and we are seeing more and more of that. If anything we are seeing a revival of the open web, making free culture mainstream. I have nothing but hope for the future of the web, and I know it will be open and free.

  54. Re:Not end to anything, rather, start of rapid cha by commodore64_love · · Score: 2, Interesting

    >>>You don't see how a PDA could be more useful than a pen and notepad? Even for taking notes?

    I do, such as being able to do a "find" or "Search" function, but I don't see how it's worth the +$1999 pricetag over a paper tablet or notebook. In practical terms that dollar amount equates to 100 hours of overtime at hell..... er, I mean work. I'd rather just do the Find function manually.

    It's somewhat similar to how I don't think it's necessary to pay +$10,000 for an Acura with self-opening doors, when its cousin the Honda is just fine. I can open the doors manually
    .

    --
    "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
  55. Micropayments are back by Animats · · Score: 1

    Micropayments never went anywhere on the web. There were plenty of micropayment schemes on the web, from Xanadu to CyberCoin, but they all went bust. Nobody talked about micropayments for years.

    Micropayments are back. Cell phones, and Apple's devices create a direct connection between your wallet and their bank account. Those devices can suck money out of your pocket. Content providers love this. That's the big change. As banks, cable companies, and phone companies have discovered since deregulation, consumers will tolerate a slow, steady increase in small fees. After a decade you're paying $100 a month for what used to cost $20.

  56. One thing I haven't seen mentioned so far by sean.peters · · Score: 1

    Sure, a lot of magazines/papers are coming out in the "app" format: you get some free (or free-ish) viewer app, then subscribe to the content. But have you seen the prices? They want you to pay 3-4 times as much per issue as you'd be paying for the dead tree version! Usually there's at least some multimedia content added, but still... at those prices, I doubt the web has much to worry about.

    This whole thing strikes me as an attempt to recreate the world of content delivery via CD-ROM, only with no physical media and even higher prices. Good luck with that.

  57. High five... by sean.peters · · Score: 2, Funny

    Besides, nothing's more pathetic than a libertarian whining that a free public service he enjoys is about to be cut off.

    Most. Awesome. Smackdown. EVAR.

    1. Re:High five... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      sort of. it requires a large number of unjustified assumptions and is basically a strawman.

      to be fair, that's about the limit of ability most of you slashdotters have. you all seem to do your best debating when you define both sides.

    2. Re:High five... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Awww, it's ok commodore... don't be afraid to use your own username when trying to defend yourself.

    3. Re:High five... by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>Awww, it's ok commodore... don't be afraid to use your own username when trying to defend yourself.

      I never am. Why are you? You're hiding behind Anon. Coward instead of using your real name, so you're the one who is afraid. Also I already shot down this guy
      :

      >>>nothing's more pathetic than a libertarian whining about a free public service he enjoys is about to be cut off.

      Libertarians consider the airwaves, just like the air itself, to be the Property of the People not the corporations. Libertarians consider the giving of channels 25-83 for cellphone companies - to be locked up behind ~$100/month paywalls - basically theft of the People's common property.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
  58. Not sure what's trolly about this by sean.peters · · Score: 1

    While I agree that to some extent it's a little nuts to download a ton of apps to do the same thing you can do with the browser, I can at least kind of see the attraction. I definitely prefer the iPhone Wikipedia app to firing up Mobile Safari and navigating to Wikipedia, as I find the site easier to use in its custom app.

    1. Re:Not sure what's trolly about this by Threni · · Score: 1

      Website designers being precious about their craft? The Wapedia app (for Android) is what I was thinking about as I wrote the message. The principle of websites is ok, it's just that they nearly all suck in practice. I love how everyone is waiting for flash on Android, or a free video codec, or faster javascript, or html 5, or whatever. It's always jam tomorrow. Meanwhile, what's considered impressive for a website is stuff that's laughably trivial using VB or whatever other ancient technology was around 15/20 years ago. There's nothing wrong with websites that scrapping all browsers on all platforms and starting again with standards compliant tools wouldn't fix.

  59. It's work either way. by sean.peters · · Score: 1

    You're either going to have to switch between websites (which requires you to either fiddle around in your list of bookmarks, bang out addresses on a teeny little keyboard, or google them); or switch between apps. But yeah, personal preference. I end up using apps for some things, browsing/googling for others.

  60. Never did like the saying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't know about other people, but, I never did like the term "information wants to be free." In fact, every time I hear it, it makes my spine crawl. Almost every time someone used the term, it was a pirate script kiddie, justifying stealing IP from another party.

    Information doesn't want anything. People want the products they consume to be free, but want to charge for all the stuff they personally produce. That's the truth.

  61. Balance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The market prefers balance, although those making money prefer to constantly tip the scale in their direction, FREE as a viable option is constantly pressing on the other side. Articles can yelp about "The End of Free" yadda yadda, but the hard truth is that people seeking content, will find it. If they don't care about expensive, they will get it that way. If they care about expensive, they will get it the free way. Businesses always like to say "oh, we have them over a barrel in some way, we will make them pay", but its a lie. If the information is so closely and tightly controlled, people will do without. If they can't afford to pay, they can't afford to pay. In the 1960's thru the 1990's, American business thought China would be a good customer. "Imagine 1 billion people buying your stuff..." was the imaginary dream. Two smacks of reality: 1. do they really need your stuff? and 2. How do you think they will pay for it? Re-read #2 again. If they can't afford it, they won't buy it. It goes the same way today, but not just to Chinese customers, but also American, Greek, Spanish, Irish, and any other customer whose economy may be leaking a bit of oil. How do you expect them to pay for it? Does the cost of content provide a good return for the customer? Is it so expensive that they are constantly feeling overcharged? Perhaps the Atlantic is offering a feel-good story for its managers who as a dead-tree/no-paywall content provider, do not want to go the way of the Seattle Post Intelligencer or the Rocky Mountain News. Digital downloads of content (movies/music) has created a change in the market for these products. CD's cost $20.00. DVD's cost $24. Now individual songs go for $.99 or less. DVD's can be found in bins at many stores 3 for $10, and when on sale, 5 for $10. Competition *will* drive down costs. Online content can be obtained for (basically free), once the ISP is paid. Newspapers must re-tool to survive. People still want quality, but not just words, pictures and video too. Its easy to publish on the net. Dead trees?...not so much.

  62. Google by hkmwbz · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Google wants everything to be free. They want as many eyeballs as possible for their ads. Free equals more eyeballs. Google would probably give away free phones if they thought the resulting eyeballs would lead to higher revenue to cover the cost of the hardware.

    Free isn't going away if Google gets its way.

    --
    Clever signature text goes here.
  63. Re:Not end to anything, rather, start of rapid cha by DrgnDancer · · Score: 1

    Because I don't just take notes on my iPhone. iPhone and other current generation smartphones represent what I have been wanting for over a decade and can now see the reality of. A single device that does everything. I can take notes on it (which is convenient in itself because I pretty much always have the device with me, no need to worry about that particular piece of paper), listen to music on it, play games on it, watch videos on it, use it to navigate my car, get my e-mail, fact check via the Internet, talk to my friends, communicate via text with my friends, send my friends the notes I just took, in a pinch I can even manage my servers from it. I could keep going for pages here. The phone is not always the most ideal platform for doing those things, I will grant you, but it's often a very good platform for them. It can also communicate with devices that are much better platforms if I need it to, or want it to.

    If my phone were replacing my paper notebook, it would be tremendously overpriced, but it's not. It's replacing my MP3 player, portable car GPS, portable DVD player, DayRunner, outdoor GPS, pedometer (which it is far more accurate than), Gameboy, E-book reader, phone, even my laptop to a limited extent. Oh, and incidentally, my paper notebook. This is a savings in more than one way. These are things that I don't have to buy or replace in the future. I've gone from having dozens of overlapping gadgets and paper records to having one thing that does it all. I've saved paper and money not buying refills for my day planner, I've saved money not buying a new GPS to replace the one that broke I gave my dad my iPod, saving him money on a new MP3 player to replace one he broke.

    I spent $200 on the phone, and another $300 on my data plan, so that's $500 first year. Has it saved me $500? No, but calling the $300 for data a pure "fee" for the device is a bit of a misnomer, part of it is, but there really are expenses related to providing data services on the device. Then there's the value of convenience. I know that when I need to take a note, make a calendar entry, find a new place, listen to music, play a game, whatever... I have the thing I need to do that. It's always on my belt. Plus it's backed up to my computer (which is in turned backed up itself) so if anything happens to it, all I have to do is replace the physical hardware.

    --
    I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
  64. App competition wants information to be free by Sloppy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The fight is manifested in "protocols want to be open" and a fear of free markets arising in implementations, because open protocols require "free" information. If the information is locked down, then there have to be secrets (or laws) that prevent accessing it, and therefore the protocol can't be open, so there's a limitation on implementations.

    The openness of SMTP+POP/IMAP is why there was diversity in email clients. The openness of NNTP is why the mediocre discussion software 20 years ago was better than today's very best web forums. (And yes, there was web browser competition too, though some mistakenly people think it was all just Netscape vs MS. But the web case is complicated anyway, because websites blur the line between apps and dead content.)

    That was the real "Digital Frontier" -- where many implementations of a protocol compete to do it best, leading to maximum user value. And you simply can't have that level of competition if the information itself is locked down. (e.g. compare watching a movie with mplayer to watching it with a licensed player from an electronics manufacturer who has to comply with DVDCCA's license or whatever. mplayer will let you skip the ads .. which means xine and vlc have to let you do it too, to stay relevant.) The freeness of the information is what allows commoditization of the protocols and formats, and variety of implementions. This is why Microsoft didn't want CIFS to be completely open (it opened a threat from Samba), didn't want people using web browsers to run applications that didn't require Windows, and so on. The threat that commoditization poses to those who want to prevent free markets, is what the "Halloween Memos" were about.

    This caused an alliance between the "hippies" advocating free information for information's sake, and software user advocates who need information to be free, for software competition/evolution's sake. The author here thinks that the "hippie" ideal of information needing to be free might not last, but discounts the practical necessity of freedom -- unless you consider quality to be just another ideal which can be sacrificed.

    Right now, the bar for quality and convenience on mobile devices is very low, so maybe giving up software quality isn't all that crazy. People are still willing to accept that you have to use this app to access this service; that if you want to buy music from the iTunes store, then you must use iTunes.

    But how long will this last? I'm sure CompuServe and AOL had their healthy-looking days, but they're gone or irrelevant now.

    Network effects might lock people into some particular services for a while, but I can't help but think that when people have access to a bunch of good XMPP apps, imagine what would happen to the idea of a Twitter app if they locked their service down so that there was only One implementation. That would be the end of them.

    If the non-free content App takes off, it's not going replace the web, and even so, it's going to require sellers that can be happy in a tiny niche, looking at absolute sales figures from a small group of suckers, never ever taking a look at (and getting discouraged by) the big picture where they realize they have 0.01% marketshare. Personally, I think if people had that kind of guts, this would be The Year of Linux Gaming. ;-)

    --
    As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
  65. IWTBF ... Acronyms have gotten ridiculous by AthleteMusicianNerd · · Score: 1

    No normal person knows what IWTBF means. Are people really that lazy that they can't be bothered to either copy and paste or type an extra 20 characters???

  66. Dragon-killing time, again. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's CompuServe, BIX, AOL, DELPHI, and Prodigy x people's internet. All over again.

    Thaw the new upgraded Stallman clones. We're going to need them.

  67. How about a little Sprint accuracy? by earlymon · · Score: 1

    The individual plan for unlimited everything, no data caps, except for 450 minutes to landlines, with a per-minute charge thereafter is $70/month. For unlimited everything , it's $100/month.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but your Nexus One plan at $70/month is capped at 500 minutes and does have a data cap, does it not?

    Further, as an EVO owner, I can assure you that Sprint adds a $10 premium stated for 4G access (whether you use it or not) and with some suggested preferential treatments for any data throttling.

    That puts the EVO at $80/month compared to your $70. Sprint charges $30/month for the feature that lets your phone act a mobile wifi hotspot - it is not required if you don't use the service, and if you do want that capability but would rather escape the charges, you simply void your warranty, root your phone and do it for free.

    Bottom line, Sprint's pricing isn't mysterious, it's $10/month more to use an EVO on Sprint than a Nexus One on T-Mobile with plans that are only arguably comparable.

    I'm not saying that I'm happy with the price, tho.... ;)

    --
    Pathological kinda promises Path + Logical - but instead, you get stuck with pathetic.
  68. Compuserve, Source, Prodigy, AOL - where are they? by vinn01 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Think of the past information walls that tried to charge for content:

    Compuserve, Source, Prodigy, AOL, etc. Where are they now?

    Why did they fail, but future walled providers will succeed?

    I think that the advertisement supported content world is not dead and will not die for a very long time.

  69. two things you missed by circletimessquare · · Score: 1

    1. it's easy to track down and stop rogue printing presses. it's hard to track down and control tens of millions of tech savvy, media hungry, and, most importantly, poor teenagers

    2. luckily, when you give away your book for free, you can still sign deals with hollywood, you can still endorse and advertise off your fame, you can still sell ancillary personalized material, and you can get a lot more exposure making your product free and widely available

    #1 shows you that copyright law is unenforceable on the internet. they call it disruptive technology for a reason. the printing press itself was disruptive, and angry monks tried to stop it from destroying their business model of transcribing by hand too. oh well, things change. adapt or die

    #2 shows you that the thought that you most control the flow of all media to make money off of it is a falsehood. the only people who are really hurt without copyright are distributors, not authors. you forgot to mention in your idyllic copyright paean above that the distributor makes most of the money off your work. in a pre-internet world, this is necessary. in a post-internet world, you don't need a distributor (and the copyright laws which really serve them, not you), you can establish your fame and make money via ancillary means all by yourself. so there is less money in circulation over all in a post-distributor internet world, but since you are getting the whole pie of income, rather than a sliver of it while the distributor takes the lion share, you actually make more money

    stop defending a law which only serves parasitical distributors, not creators. stop spreading or believing that lie

    and recognize that on the internet, there is a whole new world of content sharing that will make you more money than under the old system, via all sorts of ancillary means. from now on, your cultural output is your advertising, for cashing in later on your exposure

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
  70. And this pendulum swings back... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://apple.slashdot.org/story/10/07/12/1237253/The-Android-Gets-Its-HyperCard

    Paid app model goes back to roll-your-own, and the next dotcom bubble bites the dust.

  71. Apps in their infancy by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

    When the Internet was new, it was a series of disconnected networks. The provider with the biggest user base (America Online) took the walled garden approach. Based on a snapshot of that moment, you might think that walled gardens would be the future and people would pay for access to each garden. Instead, the free Web* took off and walled gardens fell.

    Cell phones are currently in the walled garden phase of life. This doesn't mean that the future is all walled garden. Nor does it mean that walled gardens will fall like on the Web. Still, cell phones being walled garden now doesn't mean that the free Web is going to wither and die.

    * Of course, it's not totally free. You need to pay your ISP and the site needs to pay their ISP. Still, going to Google.com requires no special payment.

    --
    My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
  72. "Information wants to be free" often means... by snowwrestler · · Score: 1

    "People want free information." Copyrighted materials may have strings attached, but there will always be people who work to cut those strings. You can see information becoming free by the terabyte on BitTorrent.

    "Information wants to be free" is a rallying cry, but it's also cautionary. Content that is sold is content that can be redistributed for free, and digital technology can make the process lossless.

    --
    Build a man a fire, he's warm for one night. Set him on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.
  73. invisible bureaucracy of posers by epine · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Normally I skim other comments before posting, but today I'm too busy.

    This whole piece is ruined by the tactic of taking people's rhetoric too literally when mounting an attack on the underlying sentiment. In the heat of the battle, people say strange things. Ten years later, the discussion needs to rise above the original Battling Tops.

    What was really at stake was the transaction floor. How valuable does information need to be *before* the constrictive apparatus of scarcity and profit kicks in? Given an exponentially falling cost of production and distribution for *most* information, the transaction floor ought to be pretty darn high.

    The same thing applies to the patent system. The novelty floor is presently set an order of magnitude (or three) below where it needs to be. It's not hard to find examples of defensible patents, such as the original public key patent. Your average hacker wasn't going to invent public key exchange by accident. It took a fairly large conceptual leap to realize that this might be a possible goal. The blue LED is another one that took real dedication and effort where many had failed. If you take the current patent system and shrink it to 10% or 1% of the current patent issue rate (suitable for information that wants to be expensive) the system becomes such a small shadow of its present self, that maybe it's just easier to shut it down completely.

    The problem is that a patent system dialed up to a respectable level of novelty will experience a dilution pressure. There will be a constant stream of people who would like to become millionaires by gaining possession of a simple idea such as one-click shopping. The anti-patent ideologues look at this and decide that cited the "slippery slope" argument is a way to force the system into a favorable polar outcome (no patents at all).

    The problem there is that if you look at every social system in the world as a slippery slope and force every aspect of every system into a polar outcome to defeat the slippery slope, you end up with a crap system. Societies do not function integrating over a trust level of zero. The right solution is to design laws that bend but don't break. It's an engineering challenge. You can't build a democratic system without managing to solve this problem at least some of the time. If you believe it's completely unsolvable, then you don't functionally believe in democracy.

    Where the transaction floor on "information wants to be expensive" needs to wind up is *above* what society can achieve for free by exploiting what Clay Shirkey calls the trillion hours per year cognitive surplus. People like to create, people like to collaborate, people like to share. If that's all it takes to create information of value, we don't need some corporation erecting a toll booth to dampen value creation.

    There are lots of places where corporations have something unique to *add* to the picture. Open source hasn't come anywhere close to the refinement of OS X. You get that refinement with some DRM bitters on the side, but there it is. You have a choice. Apple gave my father the run around for the last several months on the iPhone reception issue. How do you hold a tiny phone in a giant mitt without touching the corners? Just because information wants to be expensive, doesn't mean you're always getting what you paid for.

    The vigorous immune rejection at the Well was probably the same thing I feel. We need less companies out there looking around for something of value where they can plant a flag post and claim to be somehow essential to something that was already proceeding just fine. Corporate hustle can often bring an algorithm to market six months ahead of when the hackers would have got there anyway. How essential is that, in the long run? The accelerated solutions often prove to be annoyingly flimsy and riddled with security flaws, so it's arguable that the corporations win this race mostly by throwing more babie

    1. Re:invisible bureaucracy of posers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      examples of defensible patents, such as the original public key patent

      If you're talking about the RSA patent, that patent should never have been granted as it was on a mathematical algorithm and at the time algorithms could not be patented.

      Open source hasn't come anywhere close to the refinement of OS X.

      Only for certain definitions of "refinement".

  74. Most internet content will always be free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    People have a finite amount of money. The internet is near infinite in practical terms. So most content will be "free" or ignored. The former earns infinitely more money (or accolades, attention, etc.) than the latter, so it makes zero economic sense for most of the internet to move to a pay model.

    IMHO, smartphones will move to a more open and free model. One counterpoint to a trend is far more likely an outlier than a signal the trend is about to reverse. Wildly speculating about the latter makes for better news though.

  75. I Disagree with the essence of This Article by lpq · · Score: 1

    I probably disagree with nearly all of it.

    I'm not affected by 'app' pricing or smartphone price plans, nor do I intend to put myself in a position to care.

    Why do I want such a smartphone when I can have an always on internet lan that's flat rate?

    Why do I want to wander around on a battery powered phone staring at a tiny screen to do my work when I've been trying most of my programming career for a LARGER display and faster internet speeds.

    What *overriding* concern would prompt me to trade in my 30" 2560x1600 + 50" 1920x1080 display with pen and touch input and a 7.1 channel Theater system with ~50TB of local storage for something with nothing remotely comparable but that does have poor reception, antenna problems, slow network access and poor call quality!?

    Yeah -- in this guy's dream I'm moving to the a 'smart'[sic] phone.

    When such a device has a 30+ hour battery life, flat rates and Gigabit speeds with at least a TB of local space and a visual display that can be displayed virtually anywhere -- or that will display on my eyeballs as a comparable multi-megapixel display, then I might be tempted, but I'm not holding my breath.

  76. Re:Not end to anything, rather, start of rapid cha by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

    I dunno what device you're looking at, but the most expensive PDA I've ever owned (brand new, top-of-the-line model at the time) cost me $530US unlocked. You could put all the PDAs I've ever owned, the only laptop I ever bought new, and their accessories together and it would still be under $2kUS.

    If you want to get a PDA on a tight budget, any old Palm with a keyboard will do fine for taking notes (I'd recommend a Treo 650/680/700p) and can be bought for under $100 these days.

    I can see how cost would be a big issue if you don't have any use for any of a PDA's other functions apart from taking notes, but to me having a 3.5G-capable cell phone, a netbook-like PC, 5MP camera, GPS and FM radio all in one pocket-sized device for that price is a pretty good deal.

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  77. its not expensive to make an album by circletimessquare · · Score: 1

    you don't need a recording studio, you need a laptop. additionally, if you really love music, you will pay to make it. i don't owe you money because you want to make a song. make the damn song yourself, if its good, you'll make a profit, if not, tough luck. same as any other business venture

    additionally, using free internet mp3s to build an audience, to put butts in a concert hall, is a perfectly acceptable standard of living. why do you think creators are owed any more than that?

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
    1. Re:its not expensive to make an album by plasticsquirrel · · Score: 1

      I take it you have never discussed these matters with hard-working gigging musicians, then? That they should not only travel at a loss to build up popularity, but also are not entitled to enough profit from their albums to fit the bill for a recording studio, even if they become popular? Being a musician isn't the same as being a starving painter living in a loft, you know. Equipment costs real money. To produce music costs real money.

      Have you ever tried to record an album with a laptop? You know, even a good microphone will cost hundreds of dollars, much less good studio monitors. Then there is the matter of an interface for recording. But I'm guessing you think that noisy on-board Taiwanese crap is good enough for that. And what software would you use? Sorry, but in the real world there are standards of quality, and those dictate a recording studio, even an amateur recording studio in one's home -- but no matter what, that takes real money. Even if a band has great equipment and are experts at production, they will still go to a studio just for the acoustics of the environment, if nothing else.

      And who would master the album? The musicians? Most do not have such ability, and a professional is needed. By the way, there are these things called "professionals" -- people who specialize in something and become very good at what they do. Then in order to take advantage of their skill and experience, you give them this thing called "money", and they do something that you cannot do yourself. Try visiting a forum of musicians, and tell them what you just told me. "All you need is a laptop", and they would put you in place very quickly. You are living in a fantasy world, and real solutions will not be found until people acknowledge certain realities.

      "Screw the artist, they should work for nothing and then also pay to produce work that I will download for nothing. Maybe someday I will go to a concert so I don't feel like the prick that I am." This attitude on Slashdot gets tiring, and is clearly not sufficient to completely replace the old system. Yes, the old system is broken, but the new one doesn't even make sense, and seems to just be fueled by greedy nerds who are desperate to justify their actions, which are based solely on crass convenience.

      --
      Systemd: the PulseAudio of init systems
  78. Re:Not end to anything, rather, start of rapid cha by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

    >>>I dunno what device you're looking at, but the most expensive PDA I've ever owned (brand new, top-of-the-line model at the time) cost me $530US unlocked.

    "cost includes yearly fee" for the internet connection

    --
    "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
  79. dude by circletimessquare · · Score: 1

    you make music because you love to make music. whatever you invest you do out of your own passion for your craft. your audience owes you absolutely nothing for that

    i want to make an album. so give me $10,000. make any sense? no

    you have this odd sort of entitlement, that your audience owes you something just because you sat down with a guitar. your audience doesn't owe you a goddamn thing until they go to a concert hall and sit down in front of you

    your mp3s are just free advertising. your mp3s are the flyers stuck on telephone poles to get people to come to your concerts. that advertising fills warm butts in concert venues, and THATS how you make money

    its called an INVESTMENT. you INVEST in your album and you MAY or MAY NOT reap a profit from the effort, just like any other business in this world. from investing in new pharmaceutical research, or decorating and stocking a new restaurant, or filming a movie: there's a big up front investment that YOU shoulder, and it is not guaranteed to pay off. that's the way the real world works honey

    your sense of entitlement is unfuckingbelieveable, and shows out of touch you are

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
    1. Re:dude by vakuona · · Score: 1

      The musician isn't claiming to be entitled to your money. Rather, you are claiming that he is subjecting you to advertising in the form of a recording and therefore you don't need to pay him to listen and own a copy of the recording. If you don't think you should pay for a recording, then don't listen to it. You can obviously do without it, so just do without. But don't require musicians to entertain you on your terms.

  80. The article belies its own content by 192939495969798999 · · Score: 1

    So the article being given away for free tells about how people aren't giving things away for free anymore, and that companies doing that are destroying their business, etc. Eat your own dog food much?

    --
    stuff |
  81. Information wants to be free. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sharing information is what makes us human, what makes us a succesful species.

    Societies that have been open to the sharing of information have progressed, the ones that have stopped that sharing became wastelands of knowledge (it is no coincidence that dictatorships are mostly short lived: technical knowledge that would ensure prosperity comes paired with democratic debate, all this is most unfortunate for dictators of all stripes).

    Information wants to be free in the sense that it is very diffcult to spread its disemination, but of course most dumb MBAs can think only on monetary and transactional terms about everything, which is why they keep getting this quote wrong...