Apple Censors Consumer Report iPhone4 Discussions

An anonymous reader writes "Apple has done it again. All threads about Consumer Report's iPhone4 non-recommendation are removed or deleted. If it happened once, maybe you'd say it was a glitch. But what if it happened twice? Three times? Four times, five, six?"

Comments

Zapp Brannigan's Reporting Strategy

[eldavojohn]

If it happened once, maybe you'd say it was a glitch. But what if it happened twice? Three times? Four times, five, six?

Keep it up until your 32,768th post when they'll regret using a signed short int for the NUM_POSTS_CENSORED value in your forum profile.

Re:Zapp Brannigan's Reporting Strategy

[Haffner]

Am I the only one who immediately thought of the Season 5 finale of The Office when Dwight asks "How many people need to get hurt before we learn a lesson?" (or something) "One? Two? Three?" "Dwight..." "No, let me finish. Four? Five? Six?"

Re:Zapp Brannigan's Reporting Strategy

[biryokumaru]

If someone says something, and you remove it, that's censorship. I'm not saying Apple isn't within their rights to censor their own website, but there's no question that it is censorship.

Think different indeed.

Re:Zapp Brannigan's Reporting Strategy

[localman57]

I'm pretty sure there is a clause allowing them to "moderate" according to whatever values they want.

So it's like 4chan then?

Re:Zapp Brannigan's Reporting Strategy

[tomhudson]

I mean, it sounds reasonable to prevent my angry customers from displaying all their filth on the front of my shop doesn't it?

Try it some time. I picketed a computer store that took a $300 deposit on a $3,000 computer, with a promised delivery date, missed the date, then admitted they couldn't deliver it and wanted to make substitutions, and wouldn't refund the money. I handed out flyers to every customer who walked in the door. They called the cops. I told the cops I was exercising my constitutional right to free speech and wasn't impeding people from entering or exiting. They called their supervisor - who turned out to have had a similar bad experience with that store. Got the refund within the hour.

Moral of the story - don't treat your customers like filth and they won't have cause to display YOUR filth in front of your store.

Re:Zapp Brannigan's Reporting Strategy

[Loadmaster]

Just because Apple is allowed to censor the forums doesn't mean when they do it it's not censorship. It just means you knew they could do it. I don't think the argument here is that they couldn't do it, but that they shouldn't do it.

Angry customers are free to picket and protest in front of your shop.

Class action lawsuits are more involved than just "my product is crap." Usually it's a situation where you cannot return the product. For example, the possible class action against Sony for removing 3rd party OS capability from the PS3. How many of them can return the unit? Few. So you get all of the users who cannot return their product but have lost value due to Sony's removal and sue for compensation.

Your lottery example is easily distinguishable, because you have no expectation to win with the lottery but you do have the expectation that your product will work.

Re:Zapp Brannigan's Reporting Strategy

[urulokion]

You're right in that Apple is free to moderate their boards however they wish. But you are missing the point. Image is very important to Apple. They are trying to keep "the Image" intact. But ultimately Apple is tarnishing "the Image". They are trying to control information in a very Orwellian way (i.e. "War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength."). And what makes it very damning and hugely ironic, is that Apple is turning into the very thing they fought against in their very first Macintosh Commercial.

Re:Zapp Brannigan's Reporting Strategy

[A. B3ttik]

Plenty of posts on the issue are still up. My guess is that they simply removed a bunch of redundant or obscene threads, which I see nothing wrong with.

Re:Zapp Brannigan's Reporting Strategy

[betterunixthanunix]

That depends on the circumstances. If you invite people to draw on your car, then restrict what they are allowed to draw, then yes, it is censorship. Apple runs a forum for its users, but removes critical threads from that forum -- how that is anything but censorship is a mystery to me.

Re:Zapp Brannigan's Reporting Strategy

[jollyreaper]

So... I don't want to sound like an Apple fanboy, but nobody ever said that the Apple forums on Apple's website are a place of free speech, right? I haven't read the terms & conditions of course, but I'm pretty sure there is a clause allowing them to "moderate" according to whatever values they want. AFAIK, they don't censor all the forums on the web...

So how is this censorship?

It certainly fits one of the definitions of censorship. You end up in a tricky area. A restaurant can choose not to serve hard liquor or beer and wine. That's no problem, you can always go to another one that does. If the government prevents anyone from doing it, that's where you have a dry county. But it's not national prohibition, people just go to the next county over to get their beer. I think the whole dry county thing is silly but it is, strictly speaking to the letter of the law, legal.

Apple's actions are corporate censorship. Not illegal but simply awful PR.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship

Re:Zapp Brannigan's Reporting Strategy

[elrous0]

No, Apple users are way less mature.

Re:Zapp Brannigan's Reporting Strategy

[betterunixthanunix]

It's only censorship when the government does it.

Funny, my dictionary does not include the word "government" in its definition of "censorship."

Re:Zapp Brannigan's Reporting Strategy

[causality]

So if someone draws "motherf*cker" on your car and you are getting it removed, it is censorship? Don't you think your definition is a bit broad?

That depends on whether his car was represented as a forum where one can post messages, complete with text boxes where one can type in a comment and click "Submit" or similar. I'm guessing his car doesn't fit that description, so no, that'd be the removal of vandalism, not the censorship of speech. It'd be easier to continue this discussion if you don't deliberately act obtuse.

Apple had something to hide and because it was their own site they were successfully able to remove it in an attempt to hide it. That's really all there is to this. If their Web site and/or customer service staff had attributes like grace, dignity, or self-respect then they would write a helpful and professionally-worded response to any customer complaints and criticisms instead of censoring them.

It's like that saying "if you want to see what sort of character a man has, look at how he treats his subordinates or other people he's not required to be nice to." Likewise, if you want to see how honest a company really is, look at how it handles dissent on a forum it controls. What a shame that Apple failed this one so badly. They could have used such discussion threads as an opportunity to show that they listen to their customers and use their feedback to improve their products. That would have been respectable. Instead we get this authoritarian "because we can" garbage in an attempt to cover something up.

It's disgraceful. I am not a customer of Apple but if I were considering doing business with them, this would have made me reconsider.

Re:Zapp Brannigan's Reporting Strategy

[skelterjohn]

That's because the government had it taken out.

Re:Zapp Brannigan's Reporting Strategy

[Mongoose Disciple]

I agree as long as that person has innocent intent. Consumer Reports clearly created this article to sell copies rather than push factual information. Also, the reality is that a good amount of this type of "information" that was on the newsgroups was being put there by marketing firms who are being paid to push a certain agenda. The article "Is the Iphone 4 Apple's Vista" comes to mind here...

Lets cut to the chase... If Apple is so concerned about negative information on the iPhone 4, do you honestly think that there would be a 3 week lead time on shipping the of the phone? No, they would not. Also, the antenna issue is completely overblown, and I am sure Consumer Reports knows this internally...

Wow that must be great Kool-Aid. Clearly, a review that essentially says "We love this phone, but we can't recommend it until Apple fixes it so it can actually make phone calls." can only be a slanted hack-job to drive up circulation. Other than that one important detail, they all but gush over the greatness of the iPhone4. At this point, can you even remember what it was like to have a relationship with reality?

Cue the obligatory Penny Arcade "I'm the guy who gives hand jobs to Steve Jobs" strip. Seriously.

Re:Zapp Brannigan's Reporting Strategy

[selven]

Just as freedom of speech protects the content on the speech but not the means of delivery (eg. throwing a brick with a message into a window is not protected speech), censorship is removing speech because of the content and not because of the means of delivery. For example:

-slashdot.org closing itself down would not be censorship, since the removal is done because hosting is getting too expensive, something which is inherent in the act of posting messages on the internet.
-You cleaning your car is not censorship - your intent is to remove the paint, not the message (you'd still do it if someone wrote something neutral, eg. the word "banana", on your car). This is more murky than the previous example, since having "motherf*cker" on your car is more unpleasant than "banana" but it's leaning more on the "not censorship" side.
-Apple removing all posts about a specific topic is censorship - it's about the content.

This is my definition, not the Webster dictionary one, so feel free to disagree.

Re:Zapp Brannigan's Reporting Strategy

[Anonymous Coward]

In the Wiki article you cited:

Corporate censorship is the process by which editors in corporate media outlets intervene to disrupt the publishing of information that portrays their business or business partners in a negative light.

Re:Zapp Brannigan's Reporting Strategy

[langelgjm]

It's only censorship when the government does it.

No, it's only government censorship when the government does it.

There are plenty of other kinds of censorship, but whether they are appropriate and our reaction to them varies with who or what is involved. Ever heard of self-censorship? Or the Index Librorum Prohibitorum?

Re:Zapp Brannigan's Reporting Strategy

[commodore64_love]

>>>I had a very tasty pig murdered for my Cuban sandwich just yesterday. Strange, but I don't feel guilty about it.

I executed some wheat, sugar cane, and coconuts, and baked their carcasses into a donut. I don't feel guilty about murdering these things either. It's either eat or die.

Re:Zapp Brannigan's Reporting Strategy

[dirtyhippie]

I RTFBingCache of the removed posts, and there was nothing useful there. Yes, it pointed to the consumer reports article, but after that there was nothing but trolling.

Re:Zapp Brannigan's Reporting Strategy

[j_rhoden]

"It's only censorship when the government does it."

No, it's only illegal censorship when the government does it. Everyone else can do it as well. However, just because it isn't illegal when a private company does it doesn't make it the right thing to do.

Re:Zapp Brannigan's Reporting Strategy

[kg8484]

Apple has no right to censor people for speaking their minds under these circumstances.

Actually, it is well within it's rights to censor people posting on its bulletin board. Now, if Apple tries to get a restraining order against Consumer Reports or against people posting on Slashdot, then no, it is not within its rights. Again, I repeat, Apple is 100% within its rights to censor people posting on its forum. Doesn't mean it isn't unfair in some way, but still within it's rights.

Re:Zapp Brannigan's Reporting Strategy

[BrokenHalo]

Is a Cuban pig as good as a Cuban cigar?

It might be, but it's too hard to light...

Re:Zapp Brannigan's Reporting Strategy

[hahn]

You're right in that Apple is free to moderate their boards however they wish. But you are missing the point. Image is very important to Apple. They are trying to keep "the Image" intact. But ultimately Apple is tarnishing "the Image". They are trying to control information in a very Orwellian way (i.e. "War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength."). And what makes it very damning and hugely ironic, is that Apple is turning into the very thing they fought against in their very first Macintosh Commercial.

Well, if you also read the other Orwell story, Animal Farm, it's not really all that ironic. In fact, with their huge increase in wealth and power, it was probably inevitable.

Re:Zapp Brannigan's Reporting Strategy

[Me! Me! 42]

It is after all a "support site," not a "chat site."
It looks like there are lots of thoughtful discussions about the antenna issue, just no whining, which Apple has always deleted. Whining does not advance the support/trouble shooting goal of thew site.
Also CU does not let you see their full results unless you pay them (since they do not take advertising to remove any direct conflict of interest.)
Does this control of access to their site mean CU is "censoring" their site? I don't think so. Neither is Apple.

Re:Zapp Brannigan's Reporting Strategy

[GNUALMAFUERTE]

We already determined that. NOBODY here has said that what Apple did wasn't within its rights. We didn't say they have broken any law, or stepped into anyones rights.

We said they censored, and other people cam saying "That's not censorship because it is their own website" and providing ridiculous examples like "If someone draws on your car and you remove it, is it censorship too?".

Censorship is any selective restriction of what you can say on a certain medium. Selective is the key there. If I invite everyone to write on my car, that's not censorship. If I don't want anyone writing on my car, and I forbid car-writing on cars I won, that's not censorship either. If I invite people to write on my car, then I delete all of those things and paint it over, it is not censorship. If I invite people to write on my car freely, and then selectively erase some of the stuff written to leave only the stuff I agree with, that's censorship.

Re:Zapp Brannigan's Reporting Strategy

[Demonantis]

The image in the post from 1984 should definitely be the new apple picture for /.. They have every right to do what they are doing. I just can't comprehend how it doesn't hurt their image.

Re:Zapp Brannigan's Reporting Strategy

[selven]

I'd put it in the "bad, but should not be illegal" category.

Re:Zapp Brannigan's Reporting Strategy

[RedSteve]

If Apple really can't stand people poking fun at them when they screw up, perhaps they should stop being so fucking secretive and start doing some proper testing in the real world.

They were gonna do that, but unfortunately the guy who was supposed to carry out those tests lost his iPhone in a bar...

Re:Zapp Brannigan's Reporting Strategy

[dgatwood]

Censorship is censorship. It hardly matters WHY they are censoring.

Sure it matters. It's hardly wrong to censor posts that violate the terms of use for a message board. In this case, term #2(3) says that posts should be either technical questions, solutions, or constructive feedback about a product. I suspect many of the threads were nothing but whining, which is neither constructive feedback nor a technical question or answer....

The front page of a message board is a finite resource. People trying to help tend to read the first page, maybe the second, and that's about it. If people clog the boards with dozens of active threads that just complain without providing solutions or information that might help the manufacturer track down a problem, those noise threads end up burying real questions from people who are actually trying to get help with specific, solvable issues, at which point the entire board becomes useless.

Bottom line: if you really feel the need to complain on the forums, post in one of the existing threads. Don't waste the limited front page space with more threads about the same subject. Creating tons of new threads on the subject is abusing the board, and I'm fine with Apple thinning the herd when that happens....

Re:Zapp Brannigan's Reporting Strategy

[Mongoose Disciple]

CR did mention work-arounds, but there's a lot of phones on the market (i.e., basically all of them including earlier iPhones) that don't need one to perform their most basic function.

I think it's fair to call that a sticking point -- if they thought the new Lexus was the greatest car ever but sometimes the brakes didn't work unless you slapped some duct tape on it, I'd expect them to withhold recommending that, too.

Re:Zapp Brannigan's Reporting Strategy

[Mongoose Disciple]

A better analogy would be that the Lexus didn't come with a cup-holder, but you can purchase an after-market one for $30. It's not a show stopper because there is a workaround. If the iPhone antenna did not improve reception by adding a case, then it would be a show stopper.

With all due respect, no, that is not a better analogy.

The primary function of a phone is to make phone calls.

The primary function of a car is not to hold my Mountain Dew.

Re:Zapp Brannigan's Reporting Strategy

[laird]

"The primary function of a phone is to make phone calls."

Which the iPhone 4 does quite well, unless you hold the bottom left corner.

The issue is a real one, but it doesn't render the phone useless. You just can't hold it on one corner, unless you put your phone into a phone case (which is what most people do with expensive phones).

Freedom from pron, criticism, open debate

[ciaran_o_riordan]

Yeh, when Jobs said his control over every Apple-user's computing was about "freedom from porn", we could have guessed that "porn" was just being dragged up as a convenient excuse.

Re:Freedom from pron, criticism, open debate

[Chrisq]

Yeh, when Jobs said his control over every Apple-user's computing was about "freedom from porn", we could have guessed that "porn" was just being dragged up as a convenient excuse.

I don't know, when you see how excited some slashotters get about anti-Apple or anti-Microsoft news it looks like they are about to cream themselves.

Re:Freedom from pron, criticism, open debate

[Reilaos]

Well, now this is freedom from having complications in your decision to by the revolutionary new iPhone!

Re:Freedom from pron, criticism, open debate

[causality]

A lot of the Anti-Apple hatred is more of resentment for the years where any sort of Apple criticism, regardless of how valid it was, an automatic "-1 Troll" or "Flamebait".

I think there's a lot of truth in this. It's interesting that as Apple has become more and more visible in the mainstream this has diminished. Maybe it's about "the underdog" and not Apple specifically.

The Anit-MS hatred is mostly the F/oSS fanbois who think MS is the man that's keeping them down.

I'd wager their extreme dominance of the desktop, vendor lock-in practices, and status as convicted in court for abusing a monopoly in multiple countries may have a little something to do with that. The rest that doesn't get talked about so much is the culture that tends to surround Windows, which can be summed up as "the computer is far too complex for you to try to understand, so let us worry about that for you (for a fee, of course)."

It's logical

[Errol backfiring]

Well, that is what you do with bad apples, isn't it?

Re:It's logical

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, that is what you do with bad apples, isn't it?

Bad apples, broken windows or dead penguins, ... I don't care which it is, I chuck them all into the bin.

Apple fanbois will love it

[Chrisq]

It will be an "advantage" over Android, that the forums are not cluttered with unnecessary information.

Re:Apple fanbois will love it

[AndrewNeo]

s/unnecessary/obvious/

Re:Apple fanbois will love it

[Xebikr]

I'm just waiting for the "Android: Hold it any way you want!" ad campaign.

We don't have to take criticism...

[Pojut]

...we're Apple! Now shut up and buy this overpriced device that is marginally better than the more expensive one you bought last year!

Get over it and by a bumper you cry babies!

[LWATCDR]

Really you just paid $299 for your phone. You pay goodness knows how much a month for your 2 GB capped data plan. Just suck it up and buy the $30 bumper! what is the big deal!
(This message was sent from my Android phone on the Sprint network).

Re:Get over it and by a bumper you cry babies!

[biryokumaru]

"You just paid 40 grand for a new car that was supposed to run great. So what if the engine fell out? Stop whining already and drop that measly 5k to put a new one in it."

Re:Get over it and by a bumper you cry babies!

[BlackCreek]

The deal is that the phone is defective in the way it is sold.

What I find the most amazing thing in this whole story is how so many blogs/"news" sites didn't dare to call apple on it wrt the iphone4 antenna. Engadget, cnet all of them just gave the defective phone a stupidly high rating. Now that the cat is out of the bag they will all back-pedal on it.

Then there are the folks like you under the reasoning: "you bought a luxury phone that is defective by design, you were already ripped off, what are 30 bucks against that? Get over it". For a customer that values the design of a phone, adding a rubber band around it pretty much nullifies the value of it.

The whole idea that the product needs to be good for what it advertises, and that customers are entitled to get what they paid for apparently doesn't apply to this particular brand.

why?

[butterflysrage]

Streisand effect.. I never heard of the review until they made such a stink trying to keep me from hearing about the review.

Re:why?

[Dialecticus]

The question is, do you read Slashdot? http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/10/07/12/225227/Consumer-Reports-Cant-Recommend-iPhone-4

Re:It is their site.

[Pojut]

Wait wait wait...a company is quelling discussion about how their product has an easily demonstrated hardware issue, and you see nothing wrong with that?

That's...that's a bit unsettling, Shivetya. I recognize that it's their site and that it's up to them, based on their forum guidelines, to control certain messages...but come on. You can't possibly think this is a defensible act.

To think that this is the company.....

[8127972]

... That once claimed that 1984 wouldn't be like 1984.

Re:To think that this is the company.....

[khendron]

They never said that 2010 wouldn't be like 1984.

Re:To think that this is the company.....

[HerculesMO]

Touche.

Re:To think that this is the company.....

[lennier1]

It's always kinda funny to see how they've become what that classic TV spot wanted to rebel against.

And after years of using that Microsoft Borg logo we really need an Apple Borg logo as well.

Re:To think that this is the company.....

[zlogic]

That's a perfect example of doublethink. Remember how Apple said there would be no multitasking, no native apps because they're stupid and iPhone is perfect without them?
The reality distortion field is weak in comparison because it says "Apple is right, if you disagree, you don't understand our awesomeness" while doublethink allows Apple to contradict themselves and get away with it.

Re:To think that this is the company.....

[mizhi]

And after years of using that Microsoft Borg logo we really need an Apple Borg logo as well.

I think an Apple Lemming logo would be more appropriate. The Borg assimilated people by force - people didn't really want to become borg. Many people don't really want to use microsoft products, but must due to various factors, such as work.

On the other hand, people who use Apple products generally do so because they want to use Apple products, even if they're slowly assimilating into a computing culture that they would have abhorred had it come from Microsoft.

There's some broad brushing going on here, but I think my point is relatively clear.

Re:To think that this is the company.....

[cc1984_]

You spelt touchy wrong

Re:It is their site.

[Austerity Empowers]

Because apple spends so much time trying to convince us they're our friends, that the inflated price tag is because they do much better engineering, and generally snobbing anything else. For them to censor unbiased analysis of their product is inexcusable. They should be on their board either explaining why the consumer reports article is incorrect, or apologizing profusely (replacing the overpriced and broken hardware people have).

Apple is About Freedom!

[CritterNYC]

Apple is about freedom. Freedom from porn. Freedom from criticism. Freedom from competition. Freedom from objective discussions. Freedom from the truth.

Apple little world is looking more like 1984 every day.

Hey Apple fanboys...

[bogaboga]

...How do you explain this? Sadly, these fanboys will be outside Apple stores a few years down the road to buy the 'latest' and 'greatest' Apple product of the time...even when it's riddled with obvious defects like the iPhone 4.

After all no one in the industry cares more about the customer experience better than Apple. Right?

Hard to know if the posts violated the ToS

[Omega]

It's hard to know if this is censorship or if they just violated the terms of service and hatebois are flying off the handle. There are still lots of posts about the consumer reports unrecommendation on discussions.apple.com:

http://discussions.apple.com/search.jspa?search=Go&q=consumer+reports

Still, if it's true it wouldn't be the first time Apple flew off the handle with the censorship (remember the Ulysses app flap?).

Re:Hard to know if the posts violated the ToS

[Itninja]

I took a walk thru several of those cited links. They all had a post or two similar to this among the complaints:

BUY IT!

i have nvever owned an iphone before saturday but decided to get one even though i thought like you,should i/shouldn't i? best
thing i did! i have had no problems at all. the screen is amazing, so easy to register and sync, i can easily take of
photos and movies i have made though the auto play when you first use the usb to charge/sync the phone when plugs into
your pc. the movies and photos are perfect quality. no reception issues here and my case has not arrived so its nothing to do
with that!

get one, otherwise you don't know what you are missing!!

I am guessing marketing dept intern....

Antennas and Cradles

[HiveMind118]

We all know how Apple likes to make sure all peripherals are Apple licensed. Couldn't a cradle be made (for cars for example) that used the antenna contact point to extend the antenna (thereby bypassing the need to license a Apple proprietary plug)?

Re:It is their site.

[Enderandrew]

I say this as a guy who purchased an iPhone 4, but Apple is never your friend.

They are right up there with Microsoft on the evil scale.

But this is what people want

[Colin Smith]

They want a cool, sharp, designed world where everything is taken care of, by the caring giant that is Steve Jobs. He cares. He makes the world a better place. You don't have to worry about it.

Didn't someone write a book about that?

 

Re:But this is what people want

[Culture20]

They want a cool, sharp, designed world where everything is taken care of, by the caring giant that is Steve Jobs. He cares. He makes the world a better place. You don't have to worry about it.

Didn't someone write a book about that?

Indeed. They wrote a series of books.

Oh the irony!...

[kwolf22]

"Today we celebrate the first glorious anniversary of the Information Purification Directives.

We have created for the first time in all history a garden of pure ideology, where each worker may bloom, secure from the pests of any contradictory true thoughts.

Our Unification of Thoughts is more powerful a weapon than any fleet or army on earth.

We are one people, with one will, one resolve, one cause.

Our enemies shall talk themselves to death and we will bury them with their own confusion.

We shall prevail!

On January 24th Apple Computer will introduce Macintosh. And you'll see why 1984 won't be like '1984.'"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYecfV3ubP8

Who knew that 26 years later, Apple would be "Big Brother"...

Re:mod parent down

[chichilalescu]

human spammers. when spambots are ineffective, you start paying people to spam for you (the chinese government does it for instance; also, I assume all parties do it before elections).

and yes, someone please mod "studyabroaduniversit" down, and delete their account too.

and you should be appalled.

No...

[SmurfButcher Bob]

No... they're posting it wrong.

New Logo Please

[Tihstae]

We need a new logo on /. for Apple. No more with the company logo. We need Steve Borg or something similar.

Re:New Logo Please

[L4t3r4lu5]

Found it

Re:Power Play by Consumers Union

[LynnwoodRooster]

This seems like a power play to provide more relevance to Consumer's Union than a specific attack on Apple. I am by no means an Apple fan but this issue seems potentially overstated.

Absolutely overstated! I mean, who really wants their phone to actually BEHAVE as a phone! Insanity, I tell you, insanity!

Re:It's a support forum...

[dhermann]

"I'm sorry, sir, but you have violated the Terms of Service of this call by referring to an external site. I will have to censor you for the remainder of our conversation. Is there anything else I can assist you with today? ...Sir, by your silence I must conclude that I have resolved the issue. I went ahead and filled out a comment about how happy you are with our product on the Consumer Reports website. Thank you, and please remember that the new season of Glee is available on the iStore for $31.99."

Re:It is their site.

[Anonymous Coward]

They are right up there with Microsoft on the evil scale.

Compared to Apple, I'd let Microsoft watch my children.

Re:It is their site.

[steelfood]

It's defensible in the same sense that the RIAA suing 83-year old dead grandmas that have never touched a computer in their lives is defensible.

It's perfectly legal. The RIAA can bring whomever they want to court, even deceased people (they can sue the estate). It's their lawyers, and they can have their lawyers do whatever they want their lawyers to do.

But if you do try to defend them, then you have no defense against our collective opinion that you're a douche.

Re:It is their site.

[MightyMartian]

Discussing a serious hardware issue of a product brought up by a consumer products review magazine on a tech site dedicated to solving technical issues of the product is off-topic?

This is why Apple fanbois are considered the retards of the computing world.

Take a look in the Apple support forums, please

[RLBrown]

Naturally, as soon as I read the Slashdot summary, I read the original at TUAW. The TUAW posting was as represented by the Slashdot summary: Apple is said to have killed all mention of the CR article in its forums. Being an Apple support forum member, I logged in. Yes, the particular posts were indeed labelled "you do not have permission...". EVIL, I thought. But then I poked around -- there are massive threads discussing the antenna in the Apple Support Forum, many dumping vile on the antenna engineering. So what was so offensive to Apple in the handful of posts that they did censor? TUAW helpfully pointed out that Bing had cached the offensive posts. Well, let's have a look there. The deleted posts were less about the antenna issue, and more about the quality and accuracy of CR testing. Expressed in highly emotional fan-boy terms. It would seem that Apple has not touched the real ongoing discussions of the antenna issue, but just taken down the threads that strayed into CR bashing. BTW, as a CR subscriber, I read the original article there, too. Yes, after giving good marks to most iPhone 4 features, it considers the antenna issue to be a fatal flaw. But it does not discuss the claims that the signal must be marginal in the first place, for the hand grip to make a difference. Nor discusses the possible smokescreen of bar generation algorithms.

Re:It's not censorship.

[garyok]

Ass. Censorship is suppressing information you don't want people to see. Coercion is when you make people do what you want against their will. Imprisonment is when you lock up people you don't want to see. They are different words because they are not the same thing.

So?

[Androclese]

It is a privately owned company (i.e. Not the Government) removing conversations from their website that they do not wish discussed on their property. They are well within their rights to do so.

If they were performing this action or disrupting the conversation someplace other than their own property, that would be a huge! ...but on their own support forums? Sorry, I don't see the issue. The CS rating is a story worth discussing, but if Apple doesn't want it done on their site, there are other places (such as here) to do it.

Re:Yeah, it sucks

[betterunixthanunix]

what would you do if you were Apple?

Remind myself that at one time, Apple was viewed as liberators from companies who were trying to subvert their users? Remind myself that hackers used to view Apple as a friend who was ending the age of begging for computer time? Remind myself of the days when customers were not viewed as sheep whose wallets need fleecing, and when Apple employees were not tasked with finding ever more effective ways to extract money from the customers?

Maybe I would take notice that the Free Software Foundation mentions "Apple" before "Microsoft" when describing threats to user freedom. Perhaps I would take a moment to notice that Apple's own attempt at building a hacker community failed miserably because of the level of control that Apple insisted on. If Apple has to censor its forums to maintain its image, they are in a very precarious position.

Re:Look it up

[blind biker]

The multiple posts about an external magazine review have been removed because discussing magazine articles is offtopic for a tech support board, just as discussing the latest Huffington Post article on Angelina Jolie is offtopic.

So, a magazine article about the iPhone is off-topic in a tech support board dedicated to the iPhone?

Are you saying this with a straight face?

this is SOP for Apple

[lophophore]

This is SOP for Apple.

When Airport Express units started dropping like flies, all reports about the problem were deleted from their forums.

They don't like criticism of their products, true or not.

Re:It is their site.

[GrumblyStuff]

I dunno. Ballmer might whip out his Zune and try to squirt the tykes.

Re:It is their site.

[men0s]

Although, I would make sure all the chairs are properly secured before-hand..

Holy crap!

[psydeshow]

The real news here is that they actually paid attention to something that was said in their support forums. :-p

Re:Look it up

[Syberz]

a magazine article about the iPhone is off-topic in a tech support board dedicated to the iPhone?

Here's probably what happened:

iPhone customer: Yeah, reception sucks on my new iPhone 4.
AppleGeek: No it doesn't, I bet you're holding it with your hands? You're doing it wrong.
iPhone customer: Uh, there's a bunch of threads on the subject, many of us are having the same issue.
AppleGeek: They're doing it wrong too.
iPhone customer: There's even an article in Consumer Report that mentions it! Here's the link -->
AppleGeek: *pulls out the ban-hammer*
iPhone customer, having a half-caf decaf soy mocha latte with a lemon twaist at Le Expensive Coffee: Where'd my thread go?

*Bonus points to whoever gets the "lemon twaist" reference.