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The Puzzle of Japanese Web Design

Posted by kdawson on from the how-to-pack-five-eggs dept.

I'm Not There (1956) writes "Jeffrey Zeldman brings up the interesting issue of the paradox between Japan's strong cultural preference for simplicity in design, contrasted with the complexity of Japanese websites. The post invites you to study several sites, each more crowded than the last. 'It is odd that in Japan, land of world-leading minimalism in the traditional arts and design, Web users and skilled Web design practitioners believe more is more.'"

9 of 242 comments (clear)

  1. Ever been to Tokyo? by gregrah · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Ever been to Tokyo? If ain't flashing and neon, no one is going to notice it. For a population conditioned to such an environment, it would make sense that LOUD websites draw more customers.

    1. Re:Ever been to Tokyo? by kumanopuusan · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Ever been to Tokyo?

      Yes, I lived there for a number of years, including a few brief periods during which my projects included web applications.
      There are some places in the city (for instance near Shinjuku Station) that are covered with lights, flashing signs and colorful buildings (even the occasional giant motorized crab, if you look carefully).
      However, there are even more places in Tokyo that are always quiet. You don't even need to leave the Yamanote Line. Take a walk between Ikebukuro Station and Sugamo Station sometime.
      It's no surprise that you've only seen busy streets if you haven't gone far from the big stations.

      To get back on topic, the idea that Japanese web sites are on the whole somehow over-complicated is a bit bizarre. If anything, the key difference between web design in Japan and web design in America, is what seems to be a lag of several years. Technologies that seemed rather commonplace in America such as Ajax, or even widely accepted best practices like CSS-based layout were fairly rare in my experience.
      I don't have time to find good examples at the moment, but it's anything but difficult to find a Japanese web site that looks like it came straight out of 1995.

      --
      Use of the words "good", "bad" or "evil" is almost invariably the result of oversimplification.
  2. Too much? by clemdoc · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I don't really see much of a difference between the JAL page und delta.com, united.com or lufthansa.de. And the page of the ministry of health isn't looking too crowded either. Neither is the third one, but I couldn't figure out how to switch that one to English (still, ebay.com seems just as stuffed). The japanese versions of the pages look like a crowded mess, but that's rather because I can't deal with the characters. Switch to english and you should be fine.

  3. Korea is the same but worse by OnePumpChump · · Score: 3, Insightful

    And it infects real life. Any business district in any Korean city looks Geocities circa 1998.

  4. Hebrew vs Dutch by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 5, Insightful

    A dutch program from my youth tried to explain dyslexia by showing street signs in Hebrew, rather then dutch. It looked apparently very confusing. Except to my mother who could read it. The clutter wasn't there for her because she parsed it as readily as dutch.

    ANY foreign language will look cluttered because you brain is trying to create meaning out of chaos and failing. If you watch a loading dock you will see chaos. A person who knows the process will see organization.

    People who say in this topic that Tokyo is crowded obviously never been to Time Square or for that matter the Kalverstraat. But your brain can parse those signs and classify them as unimportant.

    Your brain, being inhabited in tasty meat, is trained to react strongly to things it doesn't expect because it expects them to be a hungry animal on the lookout for said tasty meat. We don't have to notice that tree we have grown up around, but we have to notice the addition of two eyes and a twitchy tail to its branches.

    Here is a simple test: Install a japanese language pack in your OS and change the setting so everything is in japanese. Notice how cluttered it all of sudden is? Excactly the same layout, but you suddenly can't find anything.

    For that matter, put slashdot through google translate and see how suddenly the site seems filled with random ramblings by sociopaths who live in their mothers basement.

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

  5. Re:Do not RTFA, the summary is TFA by NuShrike · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Agreed, if anything, TFA can be construed as racist by implying the Japanese aren't conforming to Westernized characterizations of their culture.

    Many of the TFA's "assertions" of "Japanese simplicity" fall apart when the sites are translated into English text.

  6. Re:Do not RTFA, the summary is TFA by dintech · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Exactly. If you've ever seen a Japanese news paper you would know that they can be quite visually overpowering. Not because of kanji or anything but because of liberal use of color, dramatic fonts and a high density of articles per page. For some reason they just don;t find it as overpowering as we do. So why should Japanese websites be any different?

    Stay tuned until after the break where we show you Europeans sophisticated complicated food, Africans display amazing ability for dance and South Americans demonstrate impeccable soccer skills...

  7. Re:Do not RTFA, the summary is TFA by Lumpy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Because that is how their culture has been for a long time. Look at Japanese TV, Media, etc... Why should their websites be any different? Also what is this myth that all japanese love the zen of minimalism? I have a couple of japanese friends and the amount of crap they cram into their tiny apartments is amazing. Minimal? Not a chance... Maybe a few esoteric ones that get press are... Just like here in the states... but most are living in tiny quarters with a lot of stuff because they are not multi-billionaires to afford a > 130 sq meter apartment that is zen like...

    Japanese people are different than the typical USA suburbanite because of culture and living on a postage stamp of an island. the article might as well ask why Norwegian websites dont come in a box you have to assemble yourselves because they all work at and live Ikea.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  8. Re:Do not RTFA, the summary is TFA by arashi+no+garou · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Many of the TFA's "assertions" of "Japanese simplicity" fall apart when the sites are translated into English text.

    Exactly. My bullshit-o-meter went off as I read the summary, and upon visiting each site I clicked the "English" link and saw a perfectly acceptable layout for a government or business website. I think the author is put off by the Japanese written language more than anything; by necessity it requires use of a lot of what would otherwise be white space on an English-language page.