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Your Online Education Experience?

Posted by kdawson on from the no-more-teachers'-dirty-looks dept.

pspahn writes "I am currently enrolled at a very well-known online school. I was hesitant when I enrolled; now more than a year has gone by, and I am regretting my decision. The main problem is that I am not learning anything. I have several years' experience with Web design, yet I was not allowed to bypass Intro to Web Design 1. Similarly, there are other classes on my list that will teach me very little I don't already know, yet will cost me money all the same. Now, I do have a great desire to learn and to further myself academically, but I just don't see much value in continuing to take classes I could have aced in ninth grade. It is also difficult when fellow classmates clearly have very little intelligent input to offer and our online discussions are reminiscent of an AOL chat room. While it is possible simply to attend a local school in person, I would much prefer an online environment as it seems to be a more natural medium considering the content of my studies. I am interested specifically in Information Security programs. What online education programs have Slashdot readers been happy with and considered successful?"

11 of 428 comments (clear)

  1. well... by Soilworker · · Score: 5, Informative

    You will experience the same problems with other types of educations. You only study to get the paper, if you want to learn stuffs do it by yourself.

    1. Re:well... by UNIX_Meister · · Score: 5, Informative

      I think you make an important distinction. I attended two traditional brick-and-mortar undergraduate state universities in engineering and math/computer science. I wouldn't characterize the learning as "outstanding" at either, since I did learn a lot more on the job. However, the quality between these and the UofPhx where I got my masters was astounding.

      I didn't learn anything. I learned a few things in an accounting class that helps me with budgeting for a non-profit I'm involved with. But most of the work was busy work - reading and posting messages to a Outlook-based message forum. We also had to do 4-5 page papers each week, but the grading was very lax. There was also a lot of group work. Now, I think that this is a good idea since it mimicks the real world where in IT there is a lot of team work required. However, it was very inconsistent with the people who were in my group, and there was no choice on our part of whom to be in groups with.

      The biggest frustration was not any hands-on learning. It was all writing papers about databases, networks, operating systems, etc. There wasn't any actual logging into a database, a network switch, a server, or even writing a single line of code. Fortunately, I took it upon myself for my capstone project to do some actual coding and complete a project, rather than the usual writing again.

      So now, I'm stuck with $56k of student loans I'm struggling to pay back.

      I definitely would NOT recommend UofPhoenix.

    2. Re:well... by twilightzero · · Score: 5, Interesting

      {
      #begin rant here

      I would both agree and disagree. I did the atrocious U of Phoenix for 4 classes and couldn't take it any more. It was exactly as the OP said and more. The discussions were extremely stupid and shallow and the classes either weren't particularly relevant or were below-level, but additionally the pace was absolutely bonkers. I was ASSURED by my advisor when I started that in no circumstance should I be spending more than 15 hours a week on my coursework, including all reading, discussions, and assignments and that it was easy to do with a job and a family, just like the ads say. Well what they should tell you is that you HAVE to have a family to do it because you have to have people who can do everything else in your life for you besides, eat, sleep, work, and study.

      We were assigned an average of 900+ pages of reading a week over the courses I took and they expected you to read it all. Then there were the papers: the last course I took with them had 9 major papers due in 5 weeks, comprised of 5 individual and 4 group papers. And if that wasn't bad enough, being the local English nazi I was chosen by my group to be the guy to put the papers together. Normally work I actually kind of enjoy, except 2 members (out of 4) of our group could write at maybe a 5th grade level. I would open their submissions and would be presented with an opening run-on sentence followed by a colon and a list of talking points. That's it. Being that the pace was so insane and I didn't want to get a bad grade, I would end up re-writing their entire sections. Of course I would complain to the "professor" and was assured that the problem was being looked into and that the person's other papers were fine. Of course they were fine, the school had a department that you could send your papers to and they would coach you through every step of correcting your mistakes, all but doing it for you. But that doesn't help on the group papers.

      Bear in mind that all of this was also after going to traditional classroom college for 2 1/2 years and getting fed up with the hoop-jumping and ball-playing and endless drama and politics. I eventually left all of it and got a job and have been very successful being self-taught. Of course it causes a problem getting through HR drones, but my take on it is that if you're so hide-bound about everyone having a piece of paper, then I don't want to work there. True, it's been tough at times but I've never gone hungry and I've had (in my oh so humble opinion) better jobs because of it.

      end
      }

      --

      "Christ what a design! I could eat a handful of iron filings and PUKE a better emergency pump than that!"
    3. Re:well... by Kell+Bengal · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The big problem with self-teaching is that sometimes you need someone to build bridges to understanding that you just can't manage on your own. When I moved to Yale to do a post-doc I learned much more about advanced maths from discussing with colleagues than I ever learned from reading books on my own. For me, it wasn't because I couldn't learn from books, it was just that the more advanced material is written in impenetrable hieroglyphs that seem designed to obscure actual understanding. Nobody ever learned Lyapunov control from starting with "Consider unit ball B on set R3..." or if they did learn it that way, I doubt they really -understood- it.

      However, someone sitting down with you for 15 minutes with a piece of paper can suss out what you already know, fill in the gaps and draw parallels to the things you understand. That's why we -have- teachers to guide us, and not just inanimate rows of books.

      --
      Scientists point out problems, engineers fix them
      altslashdot.org: The future of slashdot.
  2. Your natural medium should be more natural by rxan · · Score: 5, Insightful

    While it is possible simply to attend a local school in person, I would much prefer an online environment as it seems to be a more natural medium considering the content of my studies.

    When you deal with people in nearly any industry it will often be far more intimate than online discussions. I would suggest taking courses in person so at least you learn skills in an environment that will apply in your future career. Think about it: most customers would rather discuss their web designs (which you'll be making) in person rather than someone at the end of a phone line, chat room, or email thread. Taking offline courses helps you in so many ways. You'll discuss ideas with classmates, learn how to debate about best practices with others, and learn to learn through many different methods.

  3. Welcome to College by slifox · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The main problem is that I am not learning anything. I have several years' experience with Web design, yet I was not allowed to bypass Intro to Web Design 1. Similarly, there are other classes on my list that will teach me very little I don't already know, yet will cost me money all the same. Now, I do have a great desire to learn and to further myself academically, but I just don't see much value in continuing to take classes I could have aced in ninth grade. It is also difficult when fellow classmates clearly have very little intelligent input to offer

    Hey, welcome to college! Going to an online school might have lowered the standards a bit, but it's all part of the same experience.

    The truth is that academically most of college in just highschool part 2. For anyone who is getting a degree in a field that is already their passion & hobby (e.g. someone who has invested 10000+ hours of personal time into programming and then goes for a computer science degree), it's only in the final 1 or 2 years that the coursework is even worthwhile. The rest of the time is spent underachieving because the content is so rudimentary that you can't even stay focused. You think the colleges want you to just buy the quality courses at the end? Hell no, they want you for 2-4 years of tuition!... errr I mean "broadening experience!"

    Furthermore there are always a few assholes in the class who think they know more than the professor, and take every opportunity to bicker with them about each point. You may know a lot about the current subject, but most of the professors are teaching way below their knowledge level anyways... So that's a check on "incompetent classmates" too (not even mentioning the ridiculous amounts of cheating that goes on to pass tests that have no practical value except testing your ability to remember things)

    So yeah... welcome to college. If you want a real higher-learning environment, go for a masters and then a Ph.D with a quality advisor. First though, you need to get to that point... and a lot of us call it quits after a bachelors anyways ("it's good enough, and I can't bear another semester")

    Academically and averaged out over the entire experience, college (bachelors level) is a waste of time. A lot of people don't even work in the field they got their degree in -- I learned hardly any practical knowledge in college courses that relates to my current job... Of course, it's not all bad -- you do learn how to learn (supposedly), and you learn rigor (lab reports, etc), and you do get a bit of exposure to other interesting fields. Furthermore, if you're not an hermit, you can have a great time with social life. Well maybe that last bit isn't quite applicable to you.

    Summary: tough it out and get a degree, then forget the experience and get a well-paying job. You can be bitter all you want afterwards, but at least you'll have a good salary :) OR conversely, tough it out and do well, then get into a decent master program, and use your performance there to get into a top-quality Ph.D program

  4. Online schools are a scam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Online schools operate on a loophole that allows them to collect a ton of money that is disproportionately applied to the students. The current administration is finally starting to close the loophole but prior to that these online schools have proliferated. They exist to collect this money; educating you is the fake front to this shady business.

    DeVry, Unitek, Sequoia Institute, University of Phoenix, etc, are all scams. You learn nearly nothing, it costs a lot, there is NO JOB PLACEMENT no matter what they say and you have to bear the stigma/burden of going to an online school. We've had several online schools in California abruptly cancel all classes, fire everyone, and abandon the building(s) in question with no recourse for the students, even those about to 'graduate'.

    If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

    Here's my educational boilerplate info:

    - Go to community college. You can take all your GE, many of your lower division and some of your upper division courses there for cheap.
    - Transfer to a university. You'll only have to take the courses you couldn't take in community college, and you won't be there very long.
    - At both points try to take as many tests as you can to 'test-out' of lower classes you don't need.
    - Sign up for all the grants and scholarships you can find. Most of that money is never disbursed.

    Yeah, it's slow, but it's affordable even for the poorest of us.

  5. Stay away from for-profit degree mills by JoeBuck · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You know, the kind that advertise. It's a racket; they'll take your money, or financial aid money from the government, and give you a "degree". They don't want to let you skip "learning" what you already know because they want your cash. You need a legitimate institution, a community college or a state university.

  6. University of Phoenix by DavidD_CA · · Score: 5, Informative

    At the insistence of my employer, I enrolled in online classes at University of Phoenix about 8 years ago. I was aiming for their MBA program. At the time, the classes were 5 weeks long, with a decent amount of weekly work and plenty of reading. Everything was online, including the mandatory newsgroup-style discussions.

    After about three classes, it became clear to me that I wasn't learning much at all. I was also able to get by barely doing any of the reading, and just turning in a few well-written essays and keeping my virtual attendance up. In other words, I wasn't forced to think to earn my grades. There were no tests in any of the classes I had. For all they know, I could have been paying someone to take the class for me.

    The instructors were nothing more than babysitting facilitators. They'd answer a question if you had one, and they'd grade your paper, but they were not instructing. They doled out assignments from plans that other people had written. Not once did they engage in a discussion or challenge you to think.

    It wasn't until my fourth class when I realized the mistake I had made. The instructor was on vacation. Yes, vacation. For the five week class, he was literally gone and unavailable for the middle three weeks with the exception of one day (in 21) when he checked his email (to tell us he was on vacation). Yet the class continued on.

    When the class ended, I complained about the level of "instruction" I was being given. They ignored me for weeks, and it wasn't until I encouraged about a dozen of the other students in the same class to stand up and say something. Finally, they wrote back and told me that I would be refunded for the class if I was willing to lose the grade that I had been given. Gee, thanks. And, only those students who asked were given that choice.

    That was my last class, and I'm glad. A few weeks later I spoke candidly to the HR director and he told me he was glad I stopped taking them. He told me that when people come in with degrees from University of Phoenix he just tosses them to the bottom of the pile. He recognizes them as a diploma mill, and a BA from there is less valuable than a GED.

    I've spoken with others who have attended University of Phoenix online and they all have similar stories.

    University of Phoenix has employees whose job is to recruit students, and they earn commission for enrolling you. Their focus appears to be to get students through financial aid so that they have no problem getting their money. Once you're enrolled, and paid for, you're just a student ID.

    Sadly I paid that "school" about $6000 of my own cash before realizing any of this, but hopefully others can learn from my mistake.

    Have they improved since my experience? I sure hope so.

    --
    -David
    1. Re:University of Phoenix by TooMuchToDo · · Score: 5, Informative
      http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/collegeinc/

      A great deal of this excellent documentary mirrors what you've said, and is pretty scathing to University of Phoenix. The worst part is, folks take out huge student loans to pay for these worthless degrees from for-profit schools, can never afford to pay them back, and can never get out from under the loans because you can't discharge them in bankruptcy (because said loans are backed by the federal government).

  7. Everything you need to learn is already available by crf00 · · Score: 5, Informative
    Everything you need to learn is already available for free on the web. You just have to search harder to find them. I'd assume you want to enroll in university computer science as you are asking this in slashdot.

    For pre-U education to brush up your knowledge, there's Khan Academy to teach you everything from primary school to even college.

    For formal university level education, you can get many of them free directly from university. MIT Open Courseware is one of the well known examples. You can find a list of them at Open Culture. Google Code University is a less known but great site that helps you start and search on your online education journey.

    There are also video lecture collection sites that contain lecture recordings from various universities, such as Academic Earth and Video Lectures.

    You may also interested in less formal technology videos such as BestTechVideos and Google Tech Talks.

    You can download a lot of ebooks from the web. Here is an example list you can found on Delicious.

    In case if you are only interested in web design, IMHO the best way to learn design and multimedia is go to a real college. But anyway, there are tons of resources for web design too. Delicious is a must have search tool for you to get started.

    I'd love to provide more links that I have but I'm short of time. But as always, Google is your best friend!