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Sun Founders' Push For Open Source Education

theodp writes "Unfortunately for textbook publishers, Scott McNealy has some extra time on his hands since Oracle acquired Sun and put him out of a job. The Sun co-founder has turned his attention to the problem of math textbooks, the price of which keeps rising while the core information inside of them stays the same. 'Ten plus 10 has been 20 for a long time,' McNealy quips. 'We are spending $8 billion to $15 billion per year on textbooks' in the US, he adds. 'It seems to me we could put that all online for free.' McNealy's Curriki is an online hub for free textbooks and other course material. Others hoping to bring elements of the Open Source model to the school textbook world include Vinod Khosla (who co-founded Sun with McNealy), whose wife Neeru heads up the CK-12 Foundation, which has already developed nine of the core textbooks for high school."

16 of 169 comments (clear)

  1. Information... by iceaxe · · Score: 3, Funny

    $8-15 billion wants to be free?

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    WALSTIB!
    1. Re:Information... by grcumb · · Score: 4, Informative

      $8-15 billion wants to be free?

      Yes, but...

      Important distinction: You don't put stuff online for free, you make it free when you put it online. I work for a 'free' legal information service that spends hundreds of thousands of dollars a year being Free. People give us money because they understand that if ignorance of the law is no excuse, then free access to legal materials is kind of an important corollary.

      McNealy's right - there are tons of good reasons to make educational materials available online, free of charge. It will take a considerable investment to do so.

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      Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
    2. Re:Information... by HungryHobo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This one's sat at the back of my mind ever since I read Feynmans account of reviewing math books.

      I mean for some things like history every country/area would want significantly different books to focus on local history etc but how is it that basic math books haven't been supplanted by a handful of public domain high quality books?
      of course I know the answer is that companies making thin margins printing public domain books don't have so much money to spend on guys in suits to go around and convince the people in charge to use their textbooks.

      I know how terrible some of the schoolbooks are yet they get chosen by schools year after year.

    3. Re:Information... by WillDraven · · Score: 3, Informative

      This one's sat at the back of my mind ever since I read Feynmans account of reviewing math books.

      I was curious about this so i googled around and came across a copy here. It seems that not a day goes by in which I fail to see more evidence reinforcing my decision to home-school.

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      This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
  2. Maybe they could add by bugs2squash · · Score: 3, Informative

    Some of Benjamin Crowell's work, of which I am a fan.

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    Nullius in verba
    1. Re:Maybe they could add by gslj · · Score: 4, Informative

      Rather than re-invent the wheel, he could also have a look at South Africa's free science and math textbooks: http://www.fhsst.org

      -Gareth

  3. Build the new and they will come by jDeepbeep · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The reception to this effort will be especially positive after the Higher Education Opportunity Act goes into effect (requiring a list of changes for a new edition of a textbook showing how it differs from the older edition). As it currently stands, the author could change a few equations, and add a couple graphs, and call it a new edition.

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  4. But wait... by Just_Say_Duhhh · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That would make it much harder for me, as an educator, to require my students to use a textbook written by one of my colleagues, who just happens to require his students to use the textbook I wrote (because, of course, it would be unethical to require your students to purchase your own textbook.

    Once we have that tidy arrangement going, we merely have to make minor changes to the texts (new pictures - you know, the important stuff), and then obsolete the previous editions.

    Mr. McNealy, you already got your payday - why are you trying to prevent me from getting mine?

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    I need trepanation like I need a hole in the head.
    1. Re:But wait... by jd · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Depends on how you define "enough" and "filled". Classrooms are often understaffed and a healthy teacher getting good nutrition and good access to fresh material will teach better than an unhealthy teacher who survives on Burger King and hasn't seen a new idea in a decade.

      I have a preference for a well-educated populace, with "well-educated" being defined as being the least-educated can function well in multiple branches of society (ie: nobody is deprived of a choice in life through circumstance), the average person has the ability to get into a middle-of-the-road University, and the brightest person is never deprived of the opportunity to learn, with the additional proviso that all people have the necessary knowledge, skills and means to make choices that are sensible for them if they so wish.

      It is impossible to have a well-educated populace if you work purely on paying the least that will fill fewest positions you can get away with. In fact, it's almost impossible to educate people at all like that. It is impossible to have a well-educated populace if you work purely on paying the least but have just enough positions to actually teach sensibly. You will, however, likely get the least-able and even some of the average-able up to par.

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      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
  5. It's not just math books by DesScorp · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The whole textbook business is one of the biggest scams in education, and it only gets worse in college. New editions are churned out for the college market simply to ensure a fresh revenue stream for all involved. I think in 95% of math, science, lit, and history courses, you could go to Dover Publishers (the people that basically make their living reprinting stuff in the public domain), get the books in paperback, and actually get better textbooks in the end. I have a weird hobby of collecting pre-1950 textbooks, and frankly I think kids learned "more" back then from their textbooks than they do today. Obviously, some knowledge has been added here and there, but I've got an 8th grade science textbook that does a much better job imparting the principles of physics and chemistry to kids because of the practical examples used.

    I have to disagree with McNealy's push to go all-online though. There's no substitute for having a physical book at times. We just need to get off of the "new textbook" gravy-train.

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    Life is hard, and the world is cruel
    1. Re:It's not just math books by Smallpond · · Score: 3, Informative

      Foner claims they can profitably sell a 168-page print-on-demand book for $14.95.

  6. Re:CK12.org - Probability and Stastics - nice book by kroyd · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Another quite good book on statistics is Edward Tufte's "Data Analysis for Politics and Policy", which is posted at http://www.edwardtufte.com/tufte/dapp/

    (All the examples are real life examples, often quite important ones as well.)

  7. USSR science texbooks. by Cyberax · · Score: 4, Informative

    USSR science textbooks. Seriously, they are great (with some obvious exceptions :) ) and they are out of copyright.

    For example, Fichtenholz's "Differential and Integral Calculus" is THE best textbook on calculus ever created. It's so clear and written in so beautiful language that I had actually re-read it just for fun. I don't know if there are translations into English, alas.

    Landau and Lifshitz's "Course of Theoretical Physics" is the one of the best reference books for the modern physics, and it's available in English. It's out of copyright but its translations might be copyrighted.

    I'm certain it's possible to create a decent course on math/physics without much problem. Also, other countries should also have a lot of good material.

    It'd be different for the modern fast-moving fields of biology, chemistry, etc. But there's no reason for math/physics books to change every year (or even every decade).

    1. Re:USSR science texbooks. by nbauman · · Score: 4, Interesting

      One of the most popular science books ever printed was Physics for Entertainment, http://www.archive.org/details/physicsforentert035428mbp by Yakov Perelman http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakov_Perelman

      During the great days of the Soviet Union, the Russian Foreign Languages Printing House translated it into every major language, and sold copies at third-world prices. Those devious Communists -- promoting socialism by distributing cheap science books! Many scientists, engineers and mathematicians working today were inspired to go into their careers by this book.

      The most notable was Grigory Perelman (no relation) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grigory_Perelman who solved the last step of the Poincaré conjecture and was eccentric even by Slashdot standards. Grigory's father gave him Physics for Entertainment.

      It used to sell for $3.99. Then it went out of print, and I tried to buy it, but it was going for $200. Now somebody reprinted it in a (probably) unauthorized edition, and it's also in the Internet Archive.

      The Soviet publishing house had an army of editors translating Russian books into all the world's languages, and they probably did Fichtenholz if it's that good.

      Dover Publications got started reprinting out-of-print and out-of-copyright science books, and as I recall, a lot of their trade list was Soviet books translated into English. At that time, the Soviet Union didn't believe in copyright, and they were happy to see their work reprinted. One thing the Soviets did well was science education. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Brin)

      You might check out the old Dover catalog to see if there are any out-of-copyright English translations. Scan them and put them on the Internet.

  8. Hong Kong's solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    http://www.legco.gov.hk/yr97-98/english/panels/ed/papers/ed1601-3.htm

    The Education Department (ED) issues a Recommended Textbook List. If the publishers want to be on that list, they have to reduce the unnecessary revisions. That seems to work extremely well:

    >According to the Consumer Council's surveys, unnecessary textbook revisions have been greatly reduced in recent years, dropping from 21% in 1992 (six out of 28 textbooks) to 2% in 1996 (one out of 44 textbooks). From a random selection of revised textbooks in 1997, no unnecessary revision was detected (out of the eight sets of books examined, revisions to two were found necessary and those to the remaining six quite necessary).

  9. Re:Standardization? by Tr3vin · · Score: 3, Informative

    The Brontosaurus was a separate genus, i.e., a sibling class. Both the 'Brontosaurus' and the Apatosaurus were children of the Diplodocidae family. The 'Brontosaurus' was then discovered to be so close to the Apatosaurus that it was then placed in the same genus. The problem with the name 'Brontosaurus' is that it refers to a genus that has not existed for over 100 years. If they want to be specific, then they can call it an apatosaurus excelsus.

    To directly answer your question, no, I wouldn't correct them if they said it was about an even-toed ungulate, but I would be troubled by their vague description. If, however, someone said that Babe was a movie about a warthog(a sibling of the sus genus), I would most definitely correct them. It was obviously about a domesticated pig.

    FYI, in some social circles, I am known as a douchebage.