Slashdot Mirror
FBI Instructs Wikipedia To Drop FBI Seal
eldavojohn writes "The FBI got in contact with Wikipedia's San Francisco office to inform them they were violating the law in regards to 'unauthorized production' of this seal. The FBI quoted the law as saying, 'Whoever possesses any insignia... or any colorable imitation thereof... shall be fined... or imprisoned... or both.' Wikipedia refused to take the image down and stated that the FBI was misquoting the law. The FBI claims that this production of this image is 'particularly problematic, because it facilitates both deliberate and unwitting violations of restrictions by Wikipedia users.' Wikipedia's lawyer, Mike Godwin (please omit certain jokes), contacted the FBI and asserted, 'We are compelled as a matter of law and principle to deny your demand for removal of the FBI Seal from Wikipedia and Wikimedia Commons,' adding that the firm was 'prepared to argue our view in court.' Wikipedia appears to be holding their ground; we shall see if the FBI comes to their senses or proceeds with litigation."
Streisand in 3... 2...
Wikipedia's lawyer Mike Godwin (please omit certain jokes)
Yes, before anybody asks, it is indeed THAT Godwin, for whom the law is named.
Well you know what they say, the grade C lawyers work for the government while the grade A lawyers work for everyone else. As someone remarked about on another site, you almost had to wonder why the FBI picked this little fights, and if someone mistakenly thought Wikipedia was somehow related to the now infamous Wikileaks. Even just reading the FBI's correspondence you can tell they're seriously out of their depth.
or does the seal kind of resemble Muhammad?
"Whoever possesses any insignia... or any colorable imitation thereof... shall be fined... or imprisoned... or both"
Okay so I had to go and look this one up. Because there are so many ...'s that pretty much all of the information is missing. That sentence fracture they chose doesn't even mention any government insignia's, at first I thought ALL insignia's were outlawed.
Anyways, so here's the full deal.
Whoever manufactures, sells, or possesses any badge, identification card, or other insignia, of the design prescribed by the head of any department or agency of the United States for use by any officer or employee thereof, or any colorable imitation thereof, or photographs, prints, or in any other manner makes or executes any engraving, photograph, print, or impression in the likeness of any such badge, identification card, or other insignia, or any colorable imitation thereof, except as authorized under regulations made pursuant to law, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both.
Sounds like the law is basically there to stop people from posing as federal agents. Having the Seal on the website might make it easier for people to design replicas (and where better to find information than Wikipedia) but on the other hand, how would I know what an authentic FBI badge looks like if I've never seen it before, so how would I know if I'm dealing with an imposter or not?
Mike Godwin (please omit certain jokes)
You Nazi, stop restricting my free speech.
As far as I know there has never been a show that had the actual FBI symbol.
The members of the MPAA have a license to use the FBI seal in the unskippable intros of their DVDs.
NY Times has more. Including links to PDF's of the response. Parts of which are also quite funny: “While we appreciate your desire to revise the statute to reflect your expansive vision of it, the fact is that we must work with the actual language of the statute, not the aspirational version” that the F.B.I. had provided.
I think he was attacking the FBI copyright warning at the start of movies. Although I suspect that it is at the consent of the FBI. I wonder what started the FBI to go after Wikipedia though?
I don't know, but the solution is simple enough. If Congress represented us, they'd say: "Oh, I see what you're saying. You can afford to worry about this because you don't have enough real criminals to catch. Gotcha. This is good news! It means we will cut your budget by 1/3 and after one year we'll re-evaluate how this affects your choice of priorities. Who said federal bureaus can't learn to be more efficient?"
I think doing that one time would be enough to end this kind of BS.
It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
But since they are not breaking the law... wait, what the fuck is the issue here? I have a knife... watch out, I *could* break the law!
The FBI must think that Wikipedia and Wikileaks are connected somehow.
If Congress represented us,
Oh, since we're in Imaginationland, can I have a pony?
> An FBI agent knocks on some guy's door. The guy asks to see some ID, and the FBI agent produces his official FBI badge. The guy takes one look at it and says,
> "You can't fool me, that's a fake...it looks nothing like the ones on the X-Files!"
That's actually an interesting point. How does one deal with authentication issues like that if faced with an Law-Enforcement officer? Sure they can...if they do things right, show you their badge but then what?
1. Do you have a right to actually take that badge and/or ID into your hands to inspect it fully?
2. Can you write the details down or make a scan/photo copy?
3. If you do not believe the ID, the seal or badge (and officer) to be authentically what/who they claim to be, do you still have to do what they say (and can you be charged with, for example, resisting arrest if so)?
4. If 3 is the case, what are the options to verify such ID's, seals etc.?
I think he was attacking the FBI copyright warning at the start of movies. Although I suspect that it is at the consent of the FBI. I wonder what started the FBI to go after Wikipedia though?
They probably got wikileaks confused with wikipedia. After all, all wikis are alike right?
If the FBI get a seal it's only fair if we all get ponies.
Dude, seriously, all government stuff are paid for by taxpayers of the US. I don't think we have access to the whitehouse.
I had myself a nice chuckle at the very clear attempt at humor.
Then I nearly shit myself when I realized how possible this is.
In Texas all police officer ID's are required to have a telephone number that is available 24.7 to verify the officer's status. I let people see, touch, hold my IDs upon request. However, I would never allow a copy to be made for two big reasons: I don't want to make the ID easier to fake, and I don't want them having my picture, full name, etc to sell to drug cartels.
Also, local/state police IDs are generally look like a 5th grader made it. If the ID looks really nice it is probably a fake.