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The Second Age of Airships

The Telegraph has a story about a new generation of airships. It says "It's a new vehicle. It's a hybrid because we're combining helium lift, aerodynamic lift, a hovercraft landing system, and vectored thrust... If you can get beyond the word airship — because that has a lot of history — people think about them differently."

12 of 363 comments (clear)

  1. Great, instead of peak oil ... by capnchicken · · Score: 5, Informative
    --
    A libertarian shat on my carpet once. Claimed the free market would sort it out. -Ford Prefect(8777)
    1. Re:Great, instead of peak oil ... by MozeeToby · · Score: 5, Informative

      Technically we hit peak helium a long, long time ago. Most of what's used today is out of storage collected decades ago.

    2. Re:Great, instead of peak oil ... by MozeeToby · · Score: 4, Informative

      Having usable amounts of helium trapped in one place so you can collect it efficiently is quite rare though. There's a reason that > 90% of helium was taken out of the great plains, it's one of the few places where it occurs in large enough quantities to be feasible. There are, of course, other places (Algeria apparently is the new number 2 producer according to Wiki), and as the price increases it will become more economical to capture and refine from natural gas wells that ignore it today. That's one of the reasons there was a big push to stop government control of the price of Helium, it's important that we start collecting more of what's available before we vent a potentially precious resource into the atmosphere because its too expensive to capture.

    3. Re:Great, instead of peak oil ... by Dunbal · · Score: 4, Informative

      It is not like alpha emitters are a particularly rare thing...

            No. The problem is that the alpha emitters have half-lives in the billions of years. While there's plenty of helium being produced inside our planet, the problem is one of venting. No one is willing to stand over active volcanoes to collect it for some reason. The helium that comes up through permeable rocks in the crust can't be collected because it's so diffuse. So we're stuck with those helium pockets that can be collected - those that happen to be trapped (along with natural gas) under rocks that aren't permeable. Those pockets took - billions of years to create, and dozens of years to empty.

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    4. Re:Great, instead of peak oil ... by dave420 · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's not just leaked into the atmosphere - once in the atmosphere most of it is leaked into space.

    5. Re:Great, instead of peak oil ... by Ex-MislTech · · Score: 5, Informative

      "What helium is present today has been mostly created by the natural radioactive decay of heavy radioactive elements (thorium and uranium), as the alpha particles that are emitted by such decays consist of helium-4 nuclei. This radiogenic helium is trapped with natural gas in concentrations up to seven percent by volume, from which it is extracted commercially by a low-temperature separation process called fractional distillation."

      Looks like another good reason to build LFTR reactors that can also take
      the current radioactive waste and dispose it for good.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWUeBSoEnRk

      Good transition til we can upscale other clean energy sources.

      --
      google "32 trillion offshore needs IRS attention"
  2. Not the first try to revive airships by PseudonymousBraveguy · · Score: 5, Informative

    They are not the first trying to revive the airship. Several years ago, CargoLifter was developing a "second generation airship". Despide heavy subsidaries they've gone insolvent, because the engeneering required to create an actually useful airship is not exactly trivial, and the list of potential customers is astonishingly small. Well, at least they left a damn big hangar that now contains a nice amusement park.

  3. Half as dense != twice lift by Kupfernigk · · Score: 5, Informative
    I'm afraid not. A guy called Archimedes (based in Syracuse, but not in NY) rather beat you to it. The lift is the difference between the current density of air and the current density of the fill gas. The MW of air averages around 29, so the lift for helium is 29-4 = 25 units, and for hydrogen is 29-2 is 27 units. If helium wasn't so expensive, the small loss of lift would be justified on safety alone.

    The other problems with hydrogen are (a) that it leaks out of just about everything even faster than helium does and (b) your safety statement is utterly unproven - because nobody has recently built full size airships and compared the safety record to current winged aircraft, which are quite extraordinarily safe. Historically, airships in the 1930s might have been safer than airplanes - but since then airplanes have had over 70 years of technical advancement which have paid off massively.

    --
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  4. Re:Use hydrogen. by Deadstick · · Score: 5, Informative

    Oh, jeez, the "rocket fuel" BS again. Might want to read this:

    http://www.airships.net/hindenburg/disaster/myths#flammable-cover

    rj

  5. Lockheed is way ahead with airships by Animats · · Score: 4, Informative

    Lockheed's P-791 airship has been flying around Palmdale for several years now. This is a product of Lockheed's Skunk Works. It is slightly heavier than air, and those four "feet" are lift fans. This has advantages and disadvantages. It takes fuel to stay up, for one. On the other hand, takeoff and landing are easier; the craft can land on a runway and taxi as a hovercraft. No mooring mast required.

    The P-791 looks far more controllable than any previous airship. Rudders and elevators are ineffective at low speed. The P-791 has four propellers, each fully and independently steerable in two axes, plus speed, and maybe blade pitch. Plus the four lift fans. So it is controllable in all six degrees of freedom, even at zero speed. With classic airships, having twenty controls to manage by hand would be hopeless. With flight control computers, it's possible, once the airship has been characterized. That's really what flight tests of the P-791 are for - figuring out the control strategies. In the video,it's clear that the propellers are all being steered independently, which indicates computers and sensors are busily working to stabilize the beast. This is probably an easier job for the Skunk Works controls team than any of the stealth fighters they've done, all of which are unstable in all three axes.

    The Zeppelin NT has a similar, but less flexible system, with three steerable fans plus a lateral tail rotor, all controlled by a fly-by-wire system. I suspect that the Skunk Works put more degrees of freedom into their prototype than are really needed, so that they could experiment with different control strategies and find the best way to control their unusual craft.

    The Zeppelin NT has a compressor system, so they can reduce lift by compressing some helium into a high pressure tank and letting some of the ballonets deflate a little. This is preferable to dumping ballast or helium.

  6. Re:Hydrogen or hot-air by wagnerrp · · Score: 4, Informative

    I seem to recall that was one they confirmed. The crash only occurred because of a combination of the two. The flammable paint is what allowed the fire to easily spread to other gas bags. Had they used helium gas, or a non-flammable paint, the airship would have been able to make a safe, controlled landing.

  7. Sorry to cast an umbrella under your rain but... by IBitOBear · · Score: 4, Informative

    (1) one only needs the "modern" technology of the "compressor" to re-compress the gas into dense storage cylinders. They _used_ to vent the gas because the compressors and storage were more expensive and heavy than the cheap replacement gas. Modern technology can solve this really easy. You can fit 80 cubic feet of air (so probably like 100 cubic feet of helium) into a scuba tank, and it would be quite heavy thereafter. Intelligently done, a large number of flexible ballon-like bladders and one or two semi-rigid (pressurized) bladders would be easily sufficient to change the overall displacement of an airship by up to 50 percent without even getting into "high" pressures (e.g. more than three atmospheres or so in the pressurized fixed-size bladders). It's not rocket science, its basic pressure mechanics and displacement.

    (2) many of the craft being discussed are only "mostly buoyant", with vectored thrust and lifting bodies etc, so that the static weight of the craft is neutrally boyant, then only the thrust to lift or fly the cargo is spent. E.g. the goal is to make the weight of the _vehicle_ free. Think of the helicopter. Right now we have to maintain thrust to lift the copter and the people, which uses far more fuel than just lifting the people.

    (2a) once you are lifting only the cargo weight, crashes are lots safter as something with the weight of the cargo but the drag profile of the whole vehicle will have a much lower in-atmosphere terminal velocity, unless of course someone decided to shape it like a giant dart pointing straight down. 8-)

    So, Good Sir Nay-Sayer, yes, if nobody actually thinks about the problem, then ballast becomes a hassle. But then again, if nobody thinks about breaks, a speeding car is quite a problem as well.

    --
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