iPhone vs. Android Battle Goes To Afghanistan

redlined writes "Cell phones are tired of waiting for the troops to come home and are going to war themselves. Tech startup Berico Tailored Systems, Lockheed Martin and apparently an army of Slashdot users are currently making tactical 3G cellular networks and smartphone applications for the military to use overseas. While DARPA has held a competition to develop iPhone and Android applications, tactically-deployable 3G networks from companies like those above should open up a slew of opportunities for Apple and Google to duke it out on an actual battlefield."

Comments

What is the over seas data rate? and how unlocked

[Joe The Dragon]

What is the over seas data rate? and how high is unlocked / jailbreak use there?

I just hope the tropes are not on at&T there.

Now in the app store...

[Anonymous Coward]

War With Friends

Android

[XPeter]

For a few key reasons:

1. Swappable battery without sending the phone back to Apple.
2. Open development
3. Custom ROMs

Re:Android

[abigor]

1. By the time an iPhone's battery needs replacement, the phone will be out of warranty. So then you buy a new one for $6 from Meritline and pop it in yourself.

2. The military would undoubtedly set up a private app store via the Enterprise program. That way, all apps can be distributed in-house. Not sure if this is what you meant by "open development" or not.

Re:Android

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

Android is for faggots.

Please join our new facebook group - Fags for Android!

Re:Android

[Anonymous Coward]

It's all about quality of build. Something to endure the conditions in Iraq and Afghanistan. I love my iphone but I think the ideal scenario would be the deployment of some custom hardware on the battlefield with Android. Sand gets in everything.

Re:Android

[samkass]

1. Swappable battery without sending the phone back to Apple.
2. Open development
3. Custom ROMs

1. Actually, a swappable battery means another latch/compartment to get dirty, broken, wet, or damaged. The ideal device would be hermetically sealed. Barring that, as few ports/hatches as possible.
2. What restrictions do you think the Army has on apps they distribute?
3. No, but yes. Custom hardware (not ROMs) is the key to Android's future in the Army. If you need to take out the radio or camera for security restrictions, add a hardware switch for any features, put a glove-friendly touchscreen on, ruggedize, or otherwise customize the hardware it's possible with Android and impossible with Apple.

Re:Android

[AnonGCB]

The point isn't about replacing the battery because of wear (though that is a plus, and the fact that you don't have to unscrew the whole damn backplate to get at it), it's about carrying a 6 pack of batteries when you're going on a mission and swapping them as needed.

Re:Android

[Anonymous Coward]

1. Swappable battery without sending the phone back to Apple.
2. Open development
3. Custom ROM

1. We don't give a fuck.
2. We don't give a fuck.
3. We don't give a fuck.

Give us something so easy to use so that even an Army grunt can figure it out. There's your winner.

Re:Android

[Anonymous Coward]

You would definitely give a fuck if your batteries ran out on an excursion and you didn't have any way to charge your current one.

You'd give a big, big fuck.

Re:Android

[tyrione]

The point isn't about replacing the battery because of wear (though that is a plus, and the fact that you don't have to unscrew the whole damn backplate to get at it), it's about carrying a 6 pack of batteries when you're going on a mission and swapping them as needed.

That's your angle? You're going to carry a six pack versus a spare with a device to charge that offers multiple interfaces for charging? If you're on a mission that long, you're dead or you are in a group where you can swap out your batteries and keep your body with a few add-ons as possible.

Re:Android

[yakumo.unr]

1 spare battery, or even several is a hell of a lot cheaper than a spare unit.

1 spare battery is smaller, lighter, and less prone to breakages than a spare unit.

Why give your enemy 2 devices for free if you're taken out when you can only risk one instead.

Decent android phones make their batteries last a lot longer than any iphone offering atm. ( samoled, hummingbird etc)

If you actually need to use it as a phone for any reason, you don't want an iphone.

Re:Android

[Sheen]

You do realize that its quite common to carry spare batteries for your radios/ Night vision even today?
We did at least.
What is this universal charger you speak of btw? and how does it charge stuff at night, 100% sound smell or light free?

Re:Android

[swb]

I think the idea is that the mission has a defined length of time (ie, you won't be gone from resupply for that long) and that if the batteries last for 1/4 of your mission, 6 is enough power for the entire mission plus extra for delays or problems. You're also not dependent on recharging which takes time and depends on a battery working. With spares, you just replace a battery and if it doesn't work, you take another.

A charger might be a reasonable thing to have for very long missions or for units attached to a mechanical company of some kind. Otherwise it's time-consuming to use and doesn't solve anything if batteries have failed and won't or can't be charged. Further, the only reliable power source in the field is solar power which doesn't help the charging time or the cost of the equipment.

Re:Android

[sumdumass]

1: The battery compartment can be attacked with thumb screws that tighten down a compressed rubberized seal when attaching it. That would give it similar properties to being hermetically sealed once the battery is in place. You could also make the entire battery compartment modular in so that it can be easily swapped out if something does get broken with normal filed tools a soldier would have at his disposal.

Of course this would require making a special phone which is what the purpose of using existing phones were supposed to avoid. However, there are enough situation that a civilian market for the same robust phones could be profitable.

On the other hand, if battery recharging is the objective of a removable battery, then a rapid charger could probably be build into batteries or a pack to hold the batteries in which it could be attached to the phone for a couple of minutes and transfer a full charge. Lets assume a soldier would carry 4 batteries plus the one in the phone into battle or on patrol to last three or four days without access to anything to recharge with. Instead of placing them into a zip lock bag, simply create a cradle that holds the batteries and protects the phone while it's not in use, then have it constantly transferring power to the phone so it always have a full charge when needed. It might even be possible to use the cradle as a signal booster in the case of an emergency too. (by emergency, I mean calling the wife after being shot, of course they would use the real equipment for getting help unless this replaces some of the bulkier radios).

Re:Android

[Anonymous Coward]

The point isn't about replacing the battery because of wear (though that is a plus, and the fact that you don't have to unscrew the whole damn backplate to get at it), it's about carrying a 6 pack of batteries when you're going on a mission and swapping them as needed.

Or just use USB batteries and have that many fewer points of failure on the phone.

Re:Android

[Kenja]

Custom hardware and ROMs have already been done for the Military.

http://www.gd-itronix.com/upload/specifications/us/GD300_datasheet_080210.pdf

Re:Android

[spyder-implee]

1. Actually a removable battery is very important and you have completely missed the operational reason. Soldiers carry a bunch of equipment which use batteries (NVG's, LRF's, NAD's, Radio's, Illuminated sights, not to mention simple things like torches etc...) and it's important they all (where possible) use the same type of batteries. Simply put, if the battery in my Night Vision Goggles die and I have run out of spares, I want to swap the battery from my phone into my NVG, since it's more critical piece of equipment for my current task. Soldiers are entirely capable of keeping their kit free of dust & grime (I'm capable of stripping down an m4 to the ejector claw without getting dust through it, why wouldn't I be able to manage a phone?)

Re:Android

[codepunk]

Considering the dismal battery life on the droid phones I would say yes, having a swappable battery on them is a must.

Re:Android

[Anonymous Coward]

Everything you said is wrong.
You don't have to send the phone back to Apple to change the battery.d
Development for these purposes would be using Eclipse vs XCode not some script kiddie tool like Flash.
Apple has a different development program for corps that's does not have to go through app store approval which you obviously don't know.
Custom rooms? Do you know what COTS means?

Apple has by far the edge in security and provisioning.

Re:Android

[Anonymous Coward]

"You would definitely give a fuck if your batteries ran out on an excursion and you didn't have any way to charge your current one.

You'd give a big, big fuck."

Not at all. See, we don't rely on cellular phones to coordinate things out in the field. That's why we carry things like the PRC-117 or PRC-152 which can last for days and days out in the field. Those are the main forms of communication. When a patrol is done, the last thing we want to do if fuck around with a phone after spending 30 minutes clearing COMSEC and doing radio checks for the next shift. We just want to text loved ones, check email and relax. So no, whether it's a FOSS phone, open for development or whatever - no one cares. Just make it easy to use.

Re:Android

[Anonymous Coward]

[sarcasm] Because, you know, it's always 100% positive that you will have time to plug it in. I mean, those military guys do nothing all day anyhow, right? [/sarcasm]

Re:Android

[Ihmhi]

Because missions never last longer than planned and things never go wrong.

Re:Android

[Anonymous Coward]

Apparently you can't do math and realize that 1/4 * 6 != 1.

Re:Android

[nicolas.kassis]

It's just a usb or iphone connector and a charged battery. No sound, smell or anything. They sell similar things for laptops (basically a pad with a battery in it). You plug it in and recharge basically. Not as convenient as just swapping batteries and closing the lid. You have to keep it connected until there enough power in the phone to work without it.

Re:Android

[fermion]

Which is why Android will win. Instead of getting a phone that will work from Apple, and having standard charging stations, and a sealed device, the military will send out a ten billion dollar contract to develop and purchase a million android phones. The military contractors can survive on legitimate business, so depend on these overly complex solutions to simple problems.

Which is what Apple is. It provides a reasonable simple solution to a problem. Android is trying to make the problem more complex so it can provide a complex solution.

Here is the thing. The military spends a lot of time in sand now a days. So much so that Velcro is a thing of the paste. Sealed is in. The military wants control of hardware. Apple provides a level of control that Android does not. Android with it's random Apps only leads to data leakage.

Re:Android

[sponga]

A 'Pelican Case'; they are sealed and even waterproof ones for all different kinds of phones with rubber padding inside.
Oh yeah and as a side note 'Pelican Cases' are one of the last companies I have found that actually produce their stuff in America in Fullerton, CA I think. Great product if you work in a tough environment or ever go on a several day hike.

I don't care about looks but I just bought a 2500mAh battery and it is huge now, but I can have brightness on max, gps/wifi/bluetooth/browse and talk all day long on it

Re:Android

[Anonymous Coward]

For a few key reasons:

1. Swappable battery without sending the phone back to Apple.
2. Open development
3. Custom ROMs

4. No bloated software (like itunes) required to load apps on to the phone.

Re:Android

[Anonymous Coward]

Simple fact:
Li-Ion battery traditionally are not to be recharged above 45C which can easily be reached in those area.

There is a recent Japanese specs for charging batteries between 45C and 60C at reduced charge rates and reduce terminal battery voltage for charging. I don't think it would fully charge the battery.

Note:
I spent a lot of time understand Li-ion charging spec to implementing in a microcontroller.

Re:Android

[tlhIngan]

3. Custom ROMs

Why do people keep reiterating this myth?

It's a myth because while Android is open-source, it the ROMs aren't "open". Yes you can build an Android image from the source code, but it isn't the same as what your phone runs - with all the extra stuff like "With Google" (Android Marketplace, Goggles, Maps, Mail, etc.) and the UI cutomizations. The stuff you get with the open-source don't include that. It's why Google went after the modders to not distribute ROMs with their stuff on it.

And if you really want to get down to it, Windows MObile had custom ROMs (xda-developers was original doing WinMo stuff). You can also argue that the pre-jailbroken IPSW's for iPhone are also "custom ROMs" because you load them in using the ROM update utility of iTunes.

And while early Android phones were easily moddable to load in custom ROMs, later ROM revisions often removed the ability to root the phone, and also the ability to replace the ROM. People complain the Droid X won't allow custom ROMs as if that's a bad thing, but it's just a return to the norm.

Android being open-source means squat to generating an OS image and running it on your phone. Sure there are phones that let you do it (Android Dev Phones, for example) but consumer phones aren't supposed to have that ability. Right now we've been lucky.

All Android being open-source means is that anyone who wants to make a phone has an OS they can use royalty free. It still requires a LOT of work to make it production ready, and if you want "with Google" stuff, you have to join the OHA (not easy) and license the code for that, as well. What's interesting in Android is the stuff that isn't in the repository - it's really pretty much the status quo as those who are in the field know what pieces are missing and can write them, while Joe Garage Hacker thinks he can whip out a phone but doesn't realize a lot of important (and valuable) pieces are missing.

Now, that said, the DoD can easily design an Android phone that meets their specs and have one of the many ODMs actually do the Android porting to put Android on it. The iPhone, not so much.

Re:Android

[Cronock]

What's the point if the device you're needing to charge isn't sound or light free? Just curious.

Re:Android

[demachina]

There are open source battery chargers for iPhone at adafruit for 19.95. Someone had to figure out a slightly unusual set of resistors on the cable pins to get by Apple's obfuscations but it is known technology now. Kind of a tradeoff between having a phone that is better sealed (the iPhone) you have to charge from an external pack, or swap batteries on Android. As I recall the original knock against one of the early Android phones was the the battery cover kept falling off.

Re:Android

[Vancorps]

Huh? What is complex about Android? Especially comparing it to IOS4? The random apps would presumably be disabled as I imagine the military would do the provisioning. There are companies that already make ruggedized phones and putting Android on them is a snap so you're talking about very little modification that needs to be done and then you gain full smart phone capabilities like remote controls, signals analysis in the field, or really anything you can imagine.

I just don't see Apple being that agile, they would have to retune their production to make said phone while other companies already have the facilities. I don't think it could even be profitable for them unless they way the hell overcharge but that wouldn't be too unusual for the military. Mil-spec stuff is crazy expensive. I buy a bit of it for all the electronics I travel with including entire servers. We aren't military but we land, and can provide services to thousands in a matter of days or less if logistics are well planned out.

Re:Android

[stephanruby]

2. What restrictions do you think the Army has on apps they distribute?

Ok, I'll try to answer that one:

1. Full device encryption, which some of the Android ROMs provide, but which the iPhone Enterprise-level ROMs do not (as of yet!). Not to mention custom hardware that you just mentioned, which will probably never be doable with the iPhone.

2. A device that's second sourced. In other words, the Department of Defense doesn't want to be solely dependent on one company (one-point-failure) to supply its critical infrastructure. In the case of Intel for instance, Intel had to train to a certain level and license some of its core technology to its arch enemy AMD so that it could be able to win the very lucrative government contracts that the Department of Defense was doling out. This is one of the main reasons that the military is credited for having started the computer revolution. It was not just the funding that was important, it was ultimately the strings that were attached to those funds.

3. The idea that the phone shouldn't be manufactured in Mainland China (for fear of a Chinese back-door). Thus far, only a few of the Android phones meet that criterion. The iPhone doesn't.

4. Standard parts that can be found, swapped, hacked, replaced, and repaired locally (without going against the terms of the license if they were to buy non-approved OEM parts that were just as good as the original but way-way cheaper than non-Apple batteries). And by locally, I don't mean Paris or the UK. I know we can find iPhone headphones over there.

5. Easy to develop on. Again, another clear win for Android. It's not just easier to code on, cut and paste examples, and just make them work with some tweaking (unlike the iPhone), Google is also Beta testing 'App Inventor', a visual IDE which lets you build Android applications visually while the code gets generated in the background.

6. Not being tied to the various whims and moods of Steve Jobs such as: "You May NOT Use iTunes To Design, Manufacture or Produce Nuclear, Chemical or Biological Weapons". I doubt that such a clause would bother the Army, but at least with Android, Google didn't put their "Do no Evil" clause in their terms and conditions. In fact, it's a given that since Flash is allowed to run on Android, it means that "Doing Evil" is clearly allowed.

Re:Android

[mgblst]

Simple just get a holder for the iPhone which accepts this battery, and charges the device at the same time. I am sure they will come with holders anyway, whichever device they get, to ruggedize the devices. There are already plenty of cases outthere that include a built in battery.

This is not an issue. Custom ROMs maybe, but not this.

Re:Android

[Marcika]

Decent android phones make their batteries last a lot longer than any iphone offering atm. ( samoled, hummingbird etc)

If you actually need to use it as a phone for any reason, you don't want an iphone.

AFAIK, that's not true. The iPhone 4 seems to last 20-50% longer in most usage scenarios than pretty much any other smartphone when keeping the usage pattern constant. (See Anand's reviews for instance.) Though I have the impression that this is not due to software or hardware superiority, but due to the sheer size of its battery (made possible by being nonremovable).

Obviously, if you just want a basic phone that lasts longer than a day, you would get a basic Nokia or SonyEricsson instead of a GPS/3G/GHz-processor smartphone anyway...

Re:Android

[Anonymous Coward]

The iPhone is gay

Re:Android

[delinear]

You don't see the benefit of charging the device up during the night, when you don't want to draw attention to yourself with light or noise, so it's fully charged and ready to use for the next day, when you don't care so much about light and noise?

Re:Android

[delinear]

A charger is also going to be bulkier than a spare battery, so you either have to give it to one guy in the unit to carry and risk losing it if anything happens to him, or you give chargers to several soldiers and increase the weight of kit the unit is carrying unecessarily. The beauty of spare batteries, like spare rounds, is that everyone can carry one without adding much weight, and assuming everyone's using a compatible device you can get a replacement from anyone else in the unit, you're not putting your eggs in one basket.

Re:Android

[delinear]

I'm not sure you'd be reducing the points of failure. So far as I know a USB battery still requires a working actual battery in the phone, so if your actual battery is faulty the USB battery is a waste of space. Then you either have to have a USB cable to attach it (introducing another point of failure) or if you can find a USB battery with a compatible connector that doesn't require a cable, you have to have a clunky battery stuck directly in the phone's USB port, bump it on something and you'll likely screw up the port, introducing yet another point of failure, and you gain nothing because you're still carrying around batteries. Seems spare phone batteries would still be a better option.

Re:Android

[delinear]

You seriously can't think of a good reason why you might not want to make your phone more bulky (not to mention heavier since you're effectively carrying two batteries) to carry and operate in battelfield situations? What do you gain by your solution as a trade off to just having a phone that takes the battery directly and doesn't have to carry a useless secondary battery around inside the device?

Re:Android

[speculatrix]

and if the batteries are made by Sony, they can be used as IEDs too :-)

Re:Android

[LucidBeast]

Put your iPhone in a latex condom. Sand stays out of crevices and reception stays up.

Re:Android

[LucidBeast]

I would imagine that device should have a TPM so that secrets could be actually secured with hardware.

Re:Android

[Shoe Puppet]

But are there actually any phones that accept standard batteries?

Re:Android

[dwightk]

not due to software or hardware superiority, but due to the sheer size of its battery

what exactly do you mean by hardware superiority then?

Re:Android

[Anonymous Coward]

Ability for anyone to setup an app store (e.g. on a private network) completely separate to iTunes

Re:Android

[Marcika]

not due to software or hardware superiority, but due to the sheer size of its battery

what exactly do you mean by hardware superiority then?

Hardware that is more efficient, i.e. a CPU or screen that sucks less power for the same performance level.

Re:Android

[grub]

Someone had to figure out a slightly unusual set of resistors on the cable pins to get by Apple's obfuscations

It's not obfuscation, those resistors signal how much current the charger is able to give so things like iPads don't melt incapable chargers. Read more.

Re:Android

[GameboyRMH]

I use my old Treo 650 as a GPS in off-road rallies, and the sand hasn't caused a problem so far.

I put it in a plastic hard case and then mount it to my windshield with a universal gadget holder (in a soft-top 4x4 with the back and side windows open) - with the lanyard strapping it on as a backup in case something manages to shake it loose, which has happened a only three times - twice on the same stretch of semi-paved road (the WORST kind) and once when we hit a giant hole/big rock combo at speed in a field at night.

Afterwards you can see some fine sand around any openings, which you can't totally get rid of but like I said, it hasn't caused a problem. It doesn't seem to get deep inside. When I pull the SD card out only the first 3mm or so has sand on it.

Re:Android

[Anonymous Coward]

Soldiers carry a bunch of equipment which use batteries (NVG's, LRF's, NAD's, Radio's, Illuminated sights, not to mention simple things like torches etc...) and it's important they all (where possible) use the same type of batteries [...]
Simply put, if the battery in my Night Vision Goggles die and I have run out of spares, I want to swap the battery from my phone into my NVG

Why don't they just integrate light flexible solarpanels on their gear and add a handcrank on somewhere attached to the circuit with a few rechargable batteries distributed over the body (so if you get shot or a battery gets hit you don't kill your entire powersystem) and a "general purpose connector" on all their gear?

Just saying...

Re:Android

[socz]

Sorry dude, they think it's like a video game where you can carry 100's of lbs without any cost to the human (player). When in reality, disposing of batteries is better than carrying around 10-15 lbs of a (re)charging battery kit.

Re:Android

[jeff4747]

1 spare battery, or even several is a hell of a lot cheaper than a spare unit. 1 spare battery is smaller, lighter, and less prone to breakages than a spare unit.

1 spare battery, or even several, will not solve the problem of a bullet/shrapnel/falling on a rock destroying your single unit.

The increased weight is insignificant, and covers far more failure modes.

Re:Android

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course they are...
And the details remained secret until reverse engineered for no particular reason.
Nothing to do with Apple wanting control of the accessories market.
 
Like the non-user replacable battery.
I'm sure there are very, very good engineering reasons for that.
Planned obsolescence has nothing to do with it.

Re:Android

[ncc74656]

But are there actually any phones that accept standard batteries?

I don't know about cellphones that do, but I have a couple of Panasonic cordless phones at home that each run on a pair of AAAs. I don't see why you couldn't build a cellphone that would work on AAAs (or, better yet, AAs...up to 3 Wh from some of those). My Palm III ran on AAAs, so there's precedent for a roughly smartphone-sized device having them.

The main holdup I can see is that if they were to start using standard battery types, cellphone manufacturers wouldn't have you over a barrel when you need replacements.

Re:Android

[Maniacal]

You forgot one:

4. Low FQ (Faggy Quotient)

Army doesn't want a bunch of soldiers running around with a prissy little iPhone in their hand. They need a manly device. Just the saying the name "Android" makes me spit a wad of tobacco spit, and I'm not even chewing tobacco. Now that's manly. iPhones are for teenage girls and smug hipsters in turtlenecks, not killing machines.

Re:Android

[amicusNYCL]

This whole thread is ridiculous. You think the military is going to issue a soldier 2 iPhones? This is your solution? What other pieces of military equipment do soldiers carry more than one of? Do they walk around with 2 helmets in case the first one gets damaged? No, they don't, they make a helmet that is resistant to damage.

Several years ago I was working on a software project for the Air Force, and the target platform was a certain Dell PDA. We got a few PDAs to help with development. The PDAs arrived with hardshell cases that completely encase the device and can be opened when needed, and contained space for things like additional memory cards and batteries. It adds weight, it adds size, and it makes the whole system less likely to get damaged or destroyed.

That is what the military is going to do. They aren't going to send someone out with two fragile pieces of hardware when they could send them out with one hardened piece. If a soldier can't swap out an iPhone's battery in the field, then that's a major shortcoming. That requires that at least one soldier in the unit carries around a charging station, which complicates the entire process and also adds another point of failure.

The military has laptops that can be driven over with a tank, you think they're going to send soldiers out with a communications device that is not self-maintainable? When a combat pilot needs to bail out of a plane, they are carrying with them a single hardened encrypted rescue radio with several batteries, and they count on that device to save their life.

Re:Android

[amicusNYCL]

Kind of a tradeoff between having a phone that is better sealed

It doesn't matter how well the device itself is sealed when it is contained inside a hardened waterproof case. You don't think they're just going to stick a retail phone in their pocket, do you? The lack of a swappable battery is a major strike against the iPhone that would take a lot to overcome. It comes down to safety in the field in how soldiers need to be able to do things quickly. They can't be dicking around with a charger when it's possible to just swap out a battery and be done with it. The military has a lot of electronic equipment, and all of the equipment taken into the field uses replaceable batteries, not chargers. They don't walk around at night carrying a charger for their night vision.

Re:Android

[stephanruby]

But are there actually any phones that accept standard batteries?

They all do. As long as you're willing to blow the original pre-designed form factor to hell, and as long as you're willing to allow Steve Jobs to go completely insane with rage, you could hook up any battery to a cell phone MacGyver-style. As long as you can match approximately the right voltage and the right intensity, you could use triple-As, double-As, real lemons, whatever...

This would be useful for instance if you only needed a cell phone in a tank, a stationary place, or as a last resort in an emergency battlefield situation (where nothing else was working).

Re:Android

[Dr Max]

the iphone lasts %20 to %50 longer. thats only cause the battery is twice as big.

Re:Android

[yakumo.unr]

I'm thinking of the galaxy S as my example here with 1500mah battery, and lower power use cpu/gpu (at idle obv.) and SAMOLED screen.

The iphone4 has a 1420 mah battery.

So the best that I can find out here in this case the android phone not only can run using less power drain, but it has the bigger battery also, and it's still replaceable.

Re:Android

[AP31R0N]

4. Doesn't result in "telling" under DATD.

Re:Android

[Marcika]

the iphone lasts %20 to %50 longer. thats only cause the battery is twice as big.

Yes, that's what I said.

Outsourcing

[cosm]

So we're outsourcing our flame wars now as well?

Listen here boy

[Anonymous Coward]

War ain't a game, son.

Re:Listen here boy

[HBoar]

Diein' ain't much of a livin' boy...

I just wonder...

[postmortem]

whether they had to ask Steve if he'll let them install these iPhone apps on other soldiers phones.

Not surprising to me...

[DSS11Q13]

Actually, you would be surprised at how much 3g coverage there some spots in in the Middle East, or at least Edge network. I did a lot of volunteering in the Palestinian Territories...in the wilderness and desert. While I didn't have a 3g smartphone I had my Kindle with me, and I never once lost 3g coverage. Here is a map of the Kindle coverage which should give at least a general idea http://client0.cellmaps.com/tabs.html#cellmaps_intl_tab Frankly I'm surprised they haven't set up these networks already, especially for military ops.

Re:Not surprising to me...

[Anonymous Coward]

Military? No. Volunteering in PA.

Re:Not surprising to me...

[sumdumass]

There was an article a while back stating that because it was cheaper in these rural third world or out of the way areas to build out cell coverage instead of rolling out and maintaining copper, that most governments were working towards that instead of building traditional pots lines.

This is why you probably had such good coverage. However, had you strayed from a village very far on a minor road, you probably would have seen quite a few outages.

As for setting up these networks for military ops, while not getting into the need to monitor or restrict communications in the field, we have the problem of the Taliban destroying the existing cell towers. This was covered in the article as why something like this would be useful in Afghanistan.

Re:Not surprising to me...

[mjwx]

Actually, you would be surprised at how much 3g coverage there some spots in in the Middle East, or at least Edge network.

You'll also note that new wired networks are becoming more rare. No point in seeding exchanges and laying 100's of KM of copper for DSL or even land line phones when you just set up 3G towers. In many places in the 3rd/developing world it's cheaper and easier to deploy a cellular network then it is to try to establish a landline network. Especially as quality isn't as much of a concern. Africa is like this, even Asia once you get out of the big cities.

Rich countries like Japan, Sweden and Australia (provided Jesus Boy doesn't ruin it) can afford to lay out next gen fibre networks to houses. For poorer nations it's cheaper and easier to drop 3G towers everywhere then to roll out old copper networks and get the same net effect (phone and internet to the majority of people)

Re:Not surprising to me...

[Anonymous Coward]

No point in seeding exchanges and laying 100's of KM of copper for DSL or even land line phones when you just set up 3G towers.
...
In many places in the 3rd/developing world it's cheaper and easier to deploy a cellular network then it is to try to establish a landline network.
...
For poorer nations it's cheaper and easier to drop 3G towers everywhere then to roll out old copper networks and get the same net effect

I don't quite get what point you're trying to make.

Re:Not surprising to me...

[MacroMegaMan]

Two words: Data Encryption...

Army; not DARPA

[Anonymous Coward]

That competition article is about the Army sponsored application competition. Not DARPA.

Re:Post-war Afghan interrogation

[Anonymous Coward]

Afghan soldier:

U.S. et al. is fighting alongside Afghan soldiers, not against them

Winner: BlackBerry!

[Anonymous Coward]

Despite the hype, BlackBerry still has a bigger market share than Android and iPhone.[1] Besides, the BlackBerry's keyboard has better tactile feedback than Android/iPhone touch screens, which is important for combat operations.

[1] http://gigaom.com/2010/08/02/android-sales-overtake-iphone-in-the-u-s/

Re:Winner: BlackBerry!

[HBoar]

Yep, there is simply no substitute for tactile feedback when it comes to a good UI. Touch-screens are great -- in ADDITION to buttons, not instead of.

Re:Winner: BlackBerry!

[Darkness404]

...And how many of the BlackBerry users really -like- BlackBerry OS and didn't just pick a BlackBerry because it was cheap, their company bought one or the like? BlackBerry OS is aging, and although its rather irrelevent for the military, just compare a simple cross-platform app like Facebook, the iPhone has the best quality app, next Android (especially since the last update) then WebOS, then WinMo and BlackBerry OS.

The iPhone would be the worst out of all of them because it comes with only a single form factor, the BlackBerry hardware is decent but lets face it, the fact it reroutes a lot of traffic to non-military servers would be a problem not to mention the OS problems. Android can be made in multiple form factors, as could WinMO but until WinMO comes out with version 7... it completely sucks. Even PalmOS (yeah, the old one running on like the Palm Centro) is more usable than Windows Mobile.

Re:Winner: BlackBerry!

[stephanruby]

Despite the hype, BlackBerry still has a bigger market share than Android and iPhone.[1]

Not for long, according to your own citation. Just looking at the graph you referenced, it seems Android is poised to overtake RIM in the US by next quarter.

Re:Winner: BlackBerry!

[mdwh2]

RIM are still increasing their sales faster than Apple though - so even if Android does overtake in the US, RIM will still be a healthy 2nd place, with the gap between them and Apple widening.

Re:Winner: BlackBerry!

[mdwh2]

Hear hear. As soon as I saw the story, I thought "Oh, someone yet again developing only for the less popular platforms". We should be lucky they're at least releasing for Android (which, at least, are fastest growing), and not just the Iphones (which are 3rd place in the US, 4th worldwide, and also the gap is widening between them and Android, Sybmian and RIM).

Also note that worldwide, Symbian are number one - and Q2 2010 results show that their sales are growing over twice as fast as Apple (their increase being secondly only to Android).

Re:Winner: BlackBerry!

[mdwh2]

And how many of the BlackBerry users really -like- BlackBerry OS and didn't just pick a BlackBerry because it was cheap, their company bought one or the like?

What sort of argument is that anyway? "How many Iphone users really -like- the Iphone, and didn't just pick an Iphone because it [insert reason why they thought it was better here]?" If people pick a phone because it has something better (which includes being the best at a particular price), then presumably they like it better than everything else they could have had.

just compare a simple cross-platform app like Facebook, the iPhone has the best quality app, next Android (especially since the last update) then WebOS, then WinMo and BlackBerry OS.

You missed the market leader.

But yes, it is true that companies write apps for the Iphone, whilst ignoring everyone else - that's the point being criticised. The military should write apps for Iphone, because Facebook write apps for Iphone?

How good is the Facebook app for Windows, Linux or OS X?

Re:Winner: BlackBerry!

[GameboyRMH]

In terms of OS choice the military would be downright stupid not to go with MeeGo. Apart from being the most capable mobile OS hands-down, it's 100% FOSS so it could be adapted to do any specialized tasks the military needs. Plus it can run on a variety of hardware and CPU architectures.

Re:Post-war Afghan interrogation

[Centurix]

Thanks.

s/Afghan/Evil/

Man, offtopic. Fart apps people, fart apps.

Re:What is the over seas data rate? and how unlock

[Anonymous Coward]

It looks like Berico Tailored Systems and Lockheed have built their own 3G military networks. Berico Tailored Systems web site says the data rate for their PraefectaCELL 3G is 14.4 mbps.

http://unleashbts.com/praefectacell_3g.php

Type 1 Encryption?

[superid]

Let me know when the devices are approved for type 1 encryption. THAT will really make them useful in the battlefield.

Re:Type 1 Encryption?

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.gdc4s.com/content/detail.cfm?item=32640fd9-0213-4330-a742-55106fbaff32

Re:Type 1 Encryption?

[Anonymous Coward]

Let me know when the devices are approved for type 1 encryption. THAT will really make them useful in the battlefield.

Like this one? http://www.gdc4s.com/content/detail.cfm?item=32640fd9-0213-4330-a742-55106fbaff32

Several are available, but AFAIK, no iOS or Android models. The generic term for such a thing is SME PED.

Carry it next to your heart

[paiute]

I'm pretty sure the deciding factor will be which on can stop a 7.62 x 39 mm round.

http://www.product-reviews.net/2007/04/10/ipod-extended-soldiers-life/

http://www.zolved.com/blog/view_entry/27867/iPod_saves_soldier_but_now_wont_show_up_in_iTunes_Updated

http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2010/02/blackberry-stops-a-bullet-and-saves-a-relationship/

http://blackberrysync.com/2010/02/blackberry-curve-85xx-stops-bullet-from-victims-boyfriend/

http://momento24.com/en/2009/11/03/cell-phone-stops-bullet-saves-womans-life/

http://technology-nuggets.blogspot.com/2008/11/moto-razr-stops-bullet-saves-mans-life.html

You know, I have to start carrying my crappy old cell phone where it can protect more than my upper thigh.

Re:Carry it next to your heart

[Anonymous Coward]

You should never expect a iPhone to take a bullet for you, in fact if you're not taking the bullet for the iPhone you're obviously not nearly indoctrinated enough.

Choose your network wisely

[correnos]

"We need air support at coordin *call dropped*

I wonder if the service provider *cough at&t cough* would be liable for troops' lives.

From a soldier...

[Anonymous Coward]

Short, easy answer: Android.
Long, easy answer: Android phones because they have changeable batteries, textile keyboards (keep in mind that most of us wear gloves, rendering most touch-devices useless), can be loaded on any hardware we want, supports text-based passwords instead of PINs, uses a standard USB connection, are generally cheaper, and don't look as civilian-esque as some Android phones (see Droid, Droid X).

Re:From a soldier...

[mgblst]

Ha ha ha ha, have you ever tried typing on one of those keyboards with gloves on? Do not be ridiculous. Would be easier to get a coating on your gloves to work on a touch screen, and have the app present nice big buttons, or support gestures.

Changeable battery can be good or bad, and the iPhone supports changeable batteries with an external case.

Not sure locking mechanism is that important but hey, maybe it is.

Who cares how they look?

Re:From a soldier...

[aaarrrgggh]

iOS 4 has complex password support.

Great marketing angle

[jewishbaconzombies]

I don't drive a Hummer - so why would I give a shit what the military uses?

Re:Great marketing angle

[delinear]

Well if the military did officially purchase one of the solutions it would mean a big cash injection and it might drive some interesting development which would filter through to consumer phones, so while it might not make a huge difference to your next phone purchase, it's likely it will still have some impact.

Then the iPhone is better suited

[SuperKendall]

The point isn't about replacing the battery because of wear (though that is a plus, and the fact that you don't have to unscrew the whole damn backplate to get at it), it's about carrying a 6 pack of batteries when you're going on a mission and swapping them as needed.

So if you're that worried about power, you'd take the device with better battery management - the iPhone.

And of course you can use a charging case or external charger to refill as needed. Which takes the same space as your external battery...

Re:Then the iPhone is better suited

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow. Just wow.

Please promise me that you'll never spec or produce hardware for the military.

Re:Then the iPhone is better suited

[Ironhandx]

Wrong, as someone else has mentioned, the charger will either take MORE space or require an available source of new electricity. IE a generator or a vehicle, or another battery and then comes the problem of actually having to leave the stupid thing plugged in. Soldiers on maneuver would not have those luxuries and being able to swap the battery becomes invaluable.

Also I have heard the opposite on the battery management... as I haven't done any testing myself, I withhold judgment on that front.

Re:Then the iPhone is better suited

[socz]

You know, this is a great example of the type of disconnect there is between development, engineering and deployment. Unless you are in all 3 of those situations, you just can't truly comprehend the needs of each.

The only thing an iphone is good for in that part of the world, is to barter for your release or something else.

Re:Then the iPhone is better suited

[amicusNYCL]

And of course you can use a charging case or external charger to refill as needed. Which takes the same space as your external battery...

Right. Why just swap a battery and be done with it when you can plug in to a really big battery and let it sit there for an hour? These soldiers don't have much to do in the field, let's not make their job too easy.

Re:Then the iPhone is better suited

[Dr Max]

It doesn’t have better battery management if anything does, its android cause you have complete control over what is on and off. The iphone uses %30 more power just so they can say they have the highest resolution (no easier to read outside or any brighter) its management strategy is squeeze the biggest battery in there they can. For the military Go a dual core processor; Samoled screen; multiple swappable batteries; unibody design and a big ass external antenna option.

Right - far more secure!

[SuperKendall]

The best idea is to have all your battlefield communications going through the BES server in Canada. Better hope it doesn't accidentally route through Saudi since that's closer!

There's an app for that...

[robot256]

Need to look up the best way to get a Humvee out of a mud pit? There's an app for that.

Need to find the nearest supply depot while avoiding roadside bombs and enemy fire? There's an app for that.

Need to see the location of every friend and foe within a 100m radius without any additional devices or infrastructure? There's an app for that.

Re:There's an app for that...

[Stile 65]

Need to find Osama bin Laden? There's an app for that.

The truth about the iPhone 4

[Anonymous Coward]

Without the protective case, you get no cell service.

Re:What is the over seas data rate? and how unlock

[cgenman]

At least being overseas won't effect the transfer rate of AT&T. Our soldiers will experience the same level of service that they enjoy at home in New York city.

Problem with the iPhone 4

[rshxd]

You mess that case up, you can't make an emergency phone call because their antenna sucks

at over X1000 times the price $20/MB vs $10/GB

[Joe The Dragon]

so about $20,480 a GB.

Re:at over X1000 times the price $20/MB vs $10/GB

[catmistake]

so about $20,480 a GB.

I suppose you think casting networks that can keep connections even though there there might be lots of bullets flying through them, or keeping signals propagating through hostile political environments is easy or cheap? Think again. These are hardened networks that can blow right through military hardened faraday cages. Let's just say if you stood between a laptop and a web page there, you wouldn't be having any more children.

iphone sucks $20,480 a GB for att data and unlocki

[Joe The Dragon]

iphone sucks $20,480 a GB for att data and unlocking is apple NO NO maybe the army can get apple to unlock that part and maybe let them load there own I os as well.

Wikileaks submission app?

[cowbud]

So does this mean we will get video directly from the battlefield to wikileaks? :D

"only so much money to spend"

[Anonymous Coward]

I love the last line of the first article "But the military has only so much money to spend". Yeah, *only* $600 billion. Sheesh. Poor bastards.

Re:Post-war Afghan interrogation

[mjwx]

U.S. et al. is fighting alongside Afghan soldiers, not against them

Well that clears that one up.

Tell the lad's down in logistics to stop sending bullets, apparently we aren't fighting Afghani's any more.

iOS has the apps

[Wyatt Earp]

The good/great ballistics apps are on iOS, so I reckon it has the general edge.

http://isnipe.webdiligence.ca/
http://www.knightarmco.com/bulletflight/
http://ballistic.zdziarski.com/

There are a couple for Android, but they aren't as good as iOS has.

Re:iOS has the apps

[Anonymous Coward]

What's the chance that the army is going to use an existing app instead of doing it themselves? The algos are obviously not unavailable to them, and they'll want something that meets their specific needs and that doesn't requiring trusting some unknown party.

Re:iOS has the apps

[amicusNYCL]

Existing software probably contributes approximately nothing to the decision. It's the hardware they are interested in, once the platform is decided then they can figure out how to either port existing applications or write new ones. That decision comes after the hardware decision, not before it.

an open platform matters

[LodCrappo]

If the military wants a device that meets certain physical specifications (ruggedness, waterproofing, shielded from EMI, bulletproof, god knows what) then they have very different options with an iPhone vs an Android phone:

With Apple's platform, they must ask Apple nicely and hope for the best. They would have to rely on a single source for the devices.

or

With Android, they can publish their specs and let any manufacturer that cares to try build a device (or contract with one or a few to specifically build something). They can have multiple sources for the hardware and switch as desired.

Similarly, if the military wants specific features in the operating system, they can:

Ask Apple nicely and hope for the best

or

Modify Android any way they'd like, or contract pretty much anyone to do this for them.

Seems Android has some pretty clear advantages.

Re:an open platform matters

[mgblst]

Or they can get a case, which is what they would do. It could have a built in battery.

This is how the use devices currently over there, for sniper assistance and such.

Re:an open platform matters

[LodCrappo]

I don't see how a case solves the obvious issues with using an iPhone here (or the "other problem" it's supposed to solve, for that matter).

What if the military wants it to be smaller than an iphone? Or to fit in a particular pocket of a particular uniform? What if they want a physical keyboard? What if they want a faster processor, more memory, a different type of screen, Flash support (j/k), etc, etc? What if they don't want to buy anything that can't be second sourced?

Re:an open platform matters

[jeff4747]

What if the military wants it to be smaller than an iphone? Or to fit in a particular pocket of a particular uniform? What if they want a physical keyboard? What if they want a faster processor, more memory, a different type of screen, Flash support (j/k), etc, etc? What if they don't want to buy anything that can't be second sourced?

Are you seriously arguing that Apple would ignore >$100M in government contracts so that they don't have to 'hassle' with making a military version of the iPhone?

Re:an open platform matters

[LodCrappo]

I think its more likely that the government simply wouldn't offer such a deal to a single company for access to their closed platform when a capable and open platform supported by a wide range of manufacturers already exists.

I don't think any amount of money is going to convince Apple to open their platform enough that it would provide the same options that Android already does.

But... if the military did make such an offer to Apple, I still am not sure they would take it. They don't really need the money, and they don't seem to play well with others. I doubt the issue will ever come up, but if it did I really would not be surprised to see Apple turn it down.

Oh hai people!

[AndroidCat]

I was thinking of finally buying a cell phone. Any recommendations?

Veteran's perspective

[Anonymous Coward]

I served in Afghanistan. All these discussions on bullet proofing are irrelevant. Many of us carry cameras that are no where near water proof or bullet proof. We just put them in small little water tight cases on us. It wouldn't be bad for usage on a COB or FOB but out in sector it could be a security issue. (Light and noise discipline and personal sectors of fire not being watched) I pulled guard with someone who was using his phone to text and call back home in sector on our COB. His roaming charges were fucking ludicrous! Still it would be nice to see it implemented for down time instead of waiting for USO or SPAWAR computers or phones to reach loved ones. Although Afghani's sold us Afghan shitty phones that reached home just fine.

I bet al queda hope for Iphone.

[miffo.swe]

Considering the trucksized security holes in IOS i bet US enemies hold their thumbs and hope for Iphone. Imagine commandering your enemy troops through a web interface? :D

Sounds like a great defense contract

[pspahn]

I am not a soldier. Not now, not never.

With that said, if I were a soldier, and could have one multi-tool digital device, it would include:

• All the standard stuff you find on "phones" now. GPS, compass, maps, web (or some military grade version of the web)
• Whoop ass battery. Make it easy to change and put a carabiner on it along with a built-in solar panel so I can clip it to my pack and charge a spare during the day.
• Rugged, of course.
• Avalanche beacon type functionality. Not necessarily for an avalanche, but integrate that with an app to track nearby allies.
• Secure, secure, secure. No off the shelf software, custom stuff that others will have more difficulty getting their hands on. Especially if it falls into enemy hands. Remote kill switch possibly?

The software will end up being the key. The hardware is already there (maybe except for the whoop ass battery). Useful apps that make life easier. It's not supposed to replace current military communication channels, it just augments them. I am sure the military would love soldiers to have a digital leatherman.

Re:Sounds like a great defense contract

[MacroMegaMan]

I have been a soldier, and have had more than my share of fun in Iraq. A cell phone like this would really have been invaluable while I was there, providing a good way for squad leaders to relay encrypted messages to their troops, if nothing else. The other functions you describe are well within the realm of possibility with current technology. I hope they field some system like this soon, as it's sorely needed.

I expect even more.

[imshrunk]

Hey, Not only battle fields. I even would like to see the development of such devices to reach every inch of the glob. I like to go for an expedition like Survivor man. But the concern was about the communication, since; I can't be like the survivor man. If this development comes, then anyone can try their luck to enjoy their expedition. However, what we read was a step forward for sure. Thanks for sharing.

Tactical 3G?

[qmaqdk]

What do they use tactical 3G networks for? Tactical tweeting?

What good is that when there's NO electricity!?

[Anonymous Coward]

> So if you're that worried about power, you'd take the device with better battery management - the iPhone.
> And of course you can use a charging case or external charger to refill as needed. Which takes the same space as your external battery...

Exactly which electrical outlet do you plan to charge your iPhone from? Exactly where are you going to find a USB port to get power from in the wilderness? The point of carrying six battery packs is for going places where you *have no electricity* at all.

Sorry, but battery management is good, but being able to carry more packs makes it irrelevant for situations where you *cannot* recharge.

Re:What good is that when there's NO electricity!?

[delinear]

I'd even query the better battery management - my Desire doesn't seem any better or worse than my GF's 3GS, but the Desire is known as a battery hungry phone so that's no great recommendation, and there are plenty of Android phones that are much bettery in terms of battery life. The ability to micromanage the phone's resources to a finer degree than the iPhone would probably help here, too.

Remote holes

[Edzilla2000]

You seriously want to put a phone that has a history of remote vulnerabilities on a battlefield?

My Prediction:

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

And victory will go to the uber-cheap nokia dumbphone being used as a trigger for that IED...

I'm surprised...

[notknown86]

...that they'd even consider the iPhone. Don't they have a "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy in relation to that kind of thing? *ducks*

Hmmm...

[notknown86]

I seem to remember that Osama Bin Laden refuses to use cell phone technology to avoid detection. Now, I'm certainly no fan of his, but surely you cannot deny his effectiveness in that particular endeavour.

Maybe, just maybe, there might be a lesson worth considering there?

That said, I love the idea of every troop having 24/7 access to Wikileaks.

apps ?

[Anonymous Coward]

There is already custom devices running android developed for the US army : Global Dynamics GD300 http://tinyurl.com/34tmo26

Hardened Android phone available

[catherder_finleyd]

A big plus for Android is that there is already a "hardened" Android system available, the Raytheon Android Tactical System (RATS) :

http://www.raytheon.com/newsroom/technology/rtn09_rats/index.html